The Last Bass Outpost

Gear Discussion Forums => Bill's Shop: Projects, Mods & Repairs => Topic started by: ilan on July 01, 2012, 09:58:21 PM

Title: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on July 01, 2012, 09:58:21 PM
My first bass 37 years ago was a Hofner 500/1. Now I bought this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/221056564102?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_641wt_1396) for $470. Should arrive in 2-3 weeks.

(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Hofner-1964-Senator-Bass-Not-Working-/00/s/MTYwMFgxMTk1/$(KGrHqJ,!igE-8GNUy!gBP5yqNqw+Q~~60_10.JPG)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Chris P. on July 02, 2012, 01:59:56 AM
Wow, that's so beautifull!! I love simple basses and this one's great in that way! Congrats!!
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: drbassman on July 02, 2012, 02:56:19 AM
My first bass 37 years ago was a Hofner 500/1. Now I bought this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/221056564102?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_641wt_1396) for $470. Should arrive in 2-3 weeks.

(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Hofner-1964-Senator-Bass-Not-Working-/00/s/MTYwMFgxMTk1/$(KGrHqJ,!igE-8GNUy!gBP5yqNqw+Q~~60_10.JPG)

Oh yeah, I love it.   Is it the new RI?
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: godofthunder on July 02, 2012, 04:18:26 AM
 Nope it's a '64 what a great deal!
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Dave W on July 02, 2012, 06:41:31 AM
Nice score, especially at that price. Should be easy enough to get the electronics working.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Highlander on July 02, 2012, 02:31:18 PM
Where does the battery go...? ;D

 8)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Pilgrim on July 02, 2012, 02:57:42 PM
Dang, that's purty. 
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: drbassman on July 02, 2012, 06:02:27 PM
I am sooooo envious!   :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: godofthunder on July 04, 2012, 05:49:11 AM
  I have been resisting this for weeks  :sad: http://www.ebay.com/itm/290728021847?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Highlander on July 04, 2012, 06:23:58 AM
Have you played one or would you gig with it or should you take some antacid to relieve that bloated sensation...? :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: godofthunder on July 04, 2012, 07:18:54 AM
 Never played one, would never use it onstage another dust collector I'm afraid albeit a cool dust collector. I doubt it would relieve any bloated sensation I may be having, cycling and my green drink in the am are helping with that ;)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Chris P. on July 04, 2012, 07:55:32 AM
I played the Stu and I like it!
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Dave W on July 04, 2012, 08:02:55 AM
It's a cool looking bass, I just can't see the appeal of Stu Sutcliffe's name being attached to it.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Rob on July 04, 2012, 08:10:40 AM
It's a cool looking bass, I just can't see the appeal of Stu Sutcliffe's name being attached to it.
It's like Neubaum Turk. . . "yeah I heard of that guy"
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Dave W on July 04, 2012, 08:17:50 AM
It's like Neubaum Turk. . . "yeah I heard of that guy"

 :mrgreen:

I've heard of him too! Does he play a Hofner?  ;)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zp_b_B4LTk
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Chris P. on July 04, 2012, 10:04:35 AM
In fact Höfner doesn't call his name. I believe it's just called President or Präsident or it has the 500/something code. People call it Stu.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: drbassman on July 04, 2012, 11:58:13 AM
  I have been resisting this for weeks  :sad: http://www.ebay.com/itm/290728021847?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Me too, I'm watching that one too!
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Highlander on July 04, 2012, 02:35:00 PM
Now lets have a clean fight, no biting or hitting below the belt...
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: godofthunder on July 05, 2012, 07:08:19 AM
  No need to fight there are 4 available.  ;D
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Highlander on July 05, 2012, 03:19:07 PM
Oh my gawd...! there's only four left...! You'll create panic buying letting stuff like that become public knowledge... :o ;)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Rob on July 05, 2012, 07:11:47 PM
:mrgreen:

I've heard of him too! Does he play a Hofner?  ;)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zp_b_B4LTk


Just an MC for a one armed violinist
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: drbassman on July 08, 2012, 10:35:10 AM
  No need to fight there are 4 available.  ;D

I'm still mulling it over.  I'm happy with my 5123 and the EB-650 for now.  Not sure it would get much play time.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: OldManC on July 08, 2012, 05:20:42 PM
I got a real jones for a Club right now. The Icon just seems to far off the mark (even being hollow, the neck is way different and I'm wary of the Indonesian build and electronics) and I'm too cheap to pay the 800 or whatever a CT would run me even if I had the money (and the real one is way out of my league these days). If anyone sees a used Contemporary Club for sale, let me know!  ;)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: drbassman on July 09, 2012, 07:51:00 PM
 
I got a real jones for a Club right now. The Icon just seems to far off the mark (even being hollow, the neck is way different and I'm wary of the Indonesian build and electronics) and I'm too cheap to pay the 800 or whatever a CT would run me even if I had the money (and the real one is way out of my league these days). If anyone sees a used Contemporary Club for sale, let me know!  ;)

I love my Club.   Played it at my last two gigs and everyone loved the tone.  I did have to sell a bass and some parts to fund a German model.  It was worth it in the end.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: OldManC on July 10, 2012, 06:55:10 AM
I've been looking at stuff and wondering what I could off to fund a Hofner.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: godofthunder on July 10, 2012, 02:00:42 PM
 I played the President today, what a beautiful piece of work I can not believe it is made in China.  Seven hundred seems a steal. I want it but I sure don't need it.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Highlander on July 10, 2012, 02:16:19 PM
Go for it then, Scott, as a late b/d treat, then if it doesn't work out at least you've got rid of the itch and sell/chop it in and consider the loss as a "rental" cost... Bill might even be interested then as a cut-price item... :vader:

We've all done stranger things...

You never know, it might work out... ;)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: godofthunder on July 10, 2012, 02:42:45 PM
Sigh................. Big help you are Kenny. ;)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Highlander on July 10, 2012, 02:55:01 PM
I have moments... ;D
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: godofthunder on July 10, 2012, 04:41:04 PM
  Not a flaw could I find with this bass, lovingly crafted. Fine grain selection, the inlay on the headstock masterfully executed.............................even the tuners were little works of art.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: drbassman on July 10, 2012, 05:22:49 PM
I played the President today, what a beautiful piece of work I can not believe it is made in China.  Seven hundred seems a steal. I want it but I sure don't need it.

At the HOG?
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: godofthunder on July 10, 2012, 05:34:26 PM
Oh Shit!  ;) Bill save me from myself ! Yeah it's at the HOG
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: drbassman on July 11, 2012, 09:20:59 AM
Oh Shit!  ;) Bill save me from myself ! Yeah it's at the HOG

You don't need no stinking hollow body!  There.  Did that help?
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Dave W on July 11, 2012, 12:15:03 PM
As I've said before, never wait until you actually need a bass to buy it. OTOH if you know you're not going to play it, don't buy it. It wants to be played by someone.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: drbassman on July 11, 2012, 01:11:02 PM
As I've said before, never wait until you actually need a bass to buy it. OTOH if you know you're not going to play it, don't buy it. It wants to be played by someone.


If I won't play it, I'm less likely to buy unless it's collectible.  I actually don't play most of my collectible basses out in the band or on gigs for various reasons.  I've gravitated to the Club and the jazz because they are right on tone-wise for me and they are easy players.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: godofthunder on July 11, 2012, 01:14:27 PM
 It just so appeals to the Beatle Fan in me. Being MIC I don't think it will ever be super collectable, if it were MIG that would be something!
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: gweimer on July 11, 2012, 01:22:34 PM
No hijacking intended, but the Hofner is the bass of choice by Deerhoof these days.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m70j2iWvN11rz53cbo1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: drbassman on July 11, 2012, 01:35:03 PM
It just so appeals to the Beatle Fan in me. Being MIC I don't think it will ever be super collectable, if it were MIG that would be something!

I heard (was it here?) the German version will be out soon.   Now that would be something to see!   :o
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: godofthunder on July 11, 2012, 01:47:31 PM
  The price will be something to see!
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: drbassman on July 12, 2012, 06:49:27 AM
  The price will be something to see!

Oh, I'm sure the price would knock your socks off!  My Club has gone up $500 since I bought it at last year's price.  Glad I ordered it when I did.  So, have you decided what to do?
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: godofthunder on July 12, 2012, 06:55:21 AM
 I am going to hold off, I don't need it that's for sure. She sure is purty though.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Dave W on July 12, 2012, 08:28:31 AM
Just wait a while, the euro is on its way down. You can thank Greece and Spain.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: drbassman on July 12, 2012, 11:29:29 AM
I am going to hold off, I don't need it that's for sure. She sure is purty though.

I agree, I don't need another bass at this stage.  I'm leaning more toward collectable or non-China/Japan made.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: exiledarchangel on July 12, 2012, 03:36:12 PM
Just wait a while, the euro is on its way down. You can thank Greece and Spain.

You forgot to mention Germany! :P
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Dave W on July 12, 2012, 08:22:31 PM
You forgot to mention Germany! :P

At least Greece now has a recovery plan (http://glossynews.com/top-stories/unamerican-world-news/201206200336/greece-plans-to-close-budget-deficit-by-reloading-big-fat-greek-wedding-franchise/).  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: dadagoboi on July 13, 2012, 06:03:48 AM
At least Greece now has a recovery plan (http://glossynews.com/top-stories/unamerican-world-news/201206200336/greece-plans-to-close-budget-deficit-by-reloading-big-fat-greek-wedding-franchise/).  :mrgreen:

 ;D.  I love that Germany takes no responsibility for making loans they should have known had a big possibility of not being repaid.

If Sicily were officially independent (price tags there still have both Euro and Lire pricing) no one in his right mind would expect repayment on a loan.  Sicilians and Greeks share a lot of culture.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: exiledarchangel on July 13, 2012, 06:28:26 AM
;D.  I love that Germany takes no responsibility for making loans they should have known had a big possibility of not being repaid.

If Sicily were officially independent (price tags there still have both Euro and Lire pricing) no one in his right mind would expect repayment on a loan.  Sicilians and Greeks share a lot of culture.

Couldn't agree more. Sicilians are descended, in large part, from both ancient Greek and later Byzantine Greek settlers after all.


Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: dadagoboi on July 13, 2012, 06:36:49 AM
Couldn't agree more. Sicilians are descended, in large part, from both ancient Greek and later Byzantine Greek settlers after all.

There's a line in The Godfather, 'more Greek than Italian.'

When I was a kid our Anglo neighbor who had been stationed at the US Navy base on Sicily used to call my father, "Greek." 
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: exiledarchangel on July 13, 2012, 06:45:44 AM
When I was a kid our Anglo neighbor who had been stationed at the US Navy base on Sicily used to call my father, "Greek." 

That's always a good thing. Or maybe not! :P
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: drbassman on July 13, 2012, 08:45:40 AM
Good one Dave.  Maybe they should film it in Germany, where the money is.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on July 24, 2012, 11:01:33 AM
I received the Senator this morning. Beautiful bass but needs some work.

First off, it needs a neck reset. Right now the action is higher than on my upright (and I play arco). The bridge base needs some shaping to fit the top. And then there's the wiring.

Even with the mile high action I enjoy playing it. Maybe 3 years practicing the upright have made me less finicky about the action. It's full hollowbody - no center block - I like that. Unplugged it's louder than my Gretsch which is also full hollowbody.

It's extremely lightweight - like a classical guitar, maybe less. Slight neck dive but not as serious as a Beatle bass.

This is a crappy 1st pic through the mirror with my cell phone... better pics later.

(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll127/ilanlukatch/photo.jpg)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: godofthunder on July 24, 2012, 02:49:05 PM
 So cool !
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Dave W on July 24, 2012, 03:11:15 PM
Sure looks nice. I'll bet you'll be able to whip it into shape.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: chromium on July 24, 2012, 03:25:40 PM
That was a great score!  Seems that the need for neck resets is fairly common on the old Hoffies?  A little TLC and I'm sure you'll have it back in top form.  Stunning bass!
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on July 25, 2012, 11:52:51 AM
Seems that the need for neck resets is fairly common on the old Hoffies?

Yep. I found this (http://www.customguitars.com/hofner.html) web page that explains why:

"These neck heels are glued into a pocket by hide glue alone, with no tenon or dovetail joint to help hold it, just like a violin. Getting these necks out is a very different from say, a Martin neck."

(http://www.customguitars.com/images/hofner4.jpg)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: dadagoboi on July 25, 2012, 12:29:26 PM
Yep. I found this (http://www.customguitars.com/hofner.html) web page that explains why:

"These neck heels are glued into a pocket by hide glue alone, with no tenon or dovetail joint to help hold it, just like a violin. Getting these necks out is a very different from say, a Martin neck."

(http://www.customguitars.com/images/hofner4.jpg)

That IS a tenon.  A neck reset is routine maintenance on just about ANY fully acoustic guitar after 25 years, including Martins, truss rod or not.  It's basic physics and strength of materials.  NICE BASS!
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: godofthunder on July 25, 2012, 03:33:03 PM
  My '65-'66 Hofner had a reset when I bought it in '71! At that time it had pulled away from the body less than a 1/16 of a inch. That is enough to F things up and to this day the bass has a shaved bridge. I have always wanted to get it fixed. Years ago I sent it to one local Luthier and he could not get it apart, so I have let it be. :( Maybe I should send it back to Hofner.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: drbassman on July 25, 2012, 04:42:02 PM
I am so jealous, I can't look at this thread!
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Dave W on July 25, 2012, 05:49:28 PM
That IS a tenon.  A neck reset is routine maintenance on just about ANY fully acoustic guitar after 25 years, including Martins, truss rod or not.  It's basic physics and strength of materials.  NICE BASS!

And a dovetail tenon at that. It doesn't have a tongue as in typical solid body set neck construction. Otherwise I don't understand why that author thinks it's so different from a typical acoustic neck joint.

No reason it can't be taken apart and reset. If you don't have a luthier you can trust to do it right, there's always the Stew-Mac neck joint steamer. They have a neck removal jig too but you'd probably have to build your own to fit the Hofner.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on July 26, 2012, 06:27:46 AM
Ordered a new bridge today. My luthier (a violin maker who is also an excellent classical upright bass player) will be back from France on Sunday, I'm sure he can reset the neck and shape the bridge base to fit the top perfectly.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Dave W on July 26, 2012, 08:57:05 AM
Should be nothing unusual at all for him, then.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on July 26, 2012, 11:44:06 AM
I'm just afraid he's going to charge me upright rates... they are insane compared to guitar repair bills.

I hope he lets me stay and watch. I want to know how to remove and reset Hofner necks.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: jumbodbassman on July 26, 2012, 12:09:55 PM
all old hofners have the issue.  One of these days i will need to get arounfd to me old club bass. 

that is a sweet looking bass.  enjoy
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: uwe on July 27, 2012, 04:36:19 AM
It an easy repair for any luthier worth his salt. The neck on those Höffies comes out easier than on other basses. I had a reset on mine too, no issue.

Often enough, the necks on those old Höffies warp too which then entails honing down and refretting (as it did on mine). So be thankful, Ilan, if yours just needs a reset. "Made in Germany" or not, these basses were not built to last half-centuries.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on July 27, 2012, 07:23:32 AM
Uwe, the truss rod works fine, the neck had a slight bow which I corrected with less than a quarter turn. I will know more once the neck is in the correct angle and the action is good. Even if it needs a refret, there is no binding so it's fairly simple.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on July 27, 2012, 07:25:11 AM
And now I think I have earned the right to learn how to type that umlaut. Anyone?

EDIT: göt it.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: uwe on July 27, 2012, 08:19:19 AM
You did that nicely, Ilän.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: dadagoboi on July 27, 2012, 08:45:03 AM
Just found this:

The sound of the letter ö is similar to the sound in “earn” or “bird”.

I have a feeling few pronounce Hofner correctly who are not native speakers.  "Porsche" is a walk in the park comparatively and maybe 10% of Americans get it right.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Pilgrim on July 27, 2012, 10:04:55 AM
"Porsche" is a walk in the park comparatively and maybe 10% of Americans get it right.

And...that 10% doesn't count anyone in the South.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: uwe on July 27, 2012, 11:13:09 AM
Just found this:

The sound of the letter ö is similar to the sound in “earn” or “bird”.

I have a feeling few pronounce Hofner correctly who are not native speakers.  "Porsche" is a walk in the park comparatively and maybe 10% of Americans get it right.

The Porscheeeee thing is Janis Joplin's fault, for all her qualities (and I recommend the new Pearl remaster which is fantastic) she taught you wrong. It's "Porshuh".

Höfner? It's longlishly pronounced like the u in "hurt", the emphasis on the long vowel ö and not the F following it: Huuuuuu-f-nur". 

And next week, German class? We'll resolve the secret why Krauts tell you the time of day if you order them "Fish pate bit uh!"
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: dadagoboi on July 27, 2012, 12:23:44 PM
The Porscheeeee thing is Janis Joplin's fault, for all her qualities (and I recommend the new Pearl remaster which is fantastic) she taught you wrong. It's "Porshuh".


Average American doesn't get as close as Janis did, usually it's called a Poorsch.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Dave W on July 27, 2012, 03:30:34 PM
Average American doesn't get as close as Janis did, usually it's called a Poorsch.

I remember the one about the blonde who went door to door looking for handyman work and a guy said he'd give her $100 to paint his porch white. She came back an hour later says "I'm done, and by the way, it's  it's a Volvo, not a Porch."
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Pilgrim on July 27, 2012, 03:32:57 PM
I remember the one about the blonde who went door to door looking for handyman work and a guy said he'd give her $100 to paint his porch white. She came back an hour later says "I'm done, and by the way, it's  it's a Volvo, not a Porch."

 :rimshot:
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on July 28, 2012, 06:29:45 AM
I attempted an f-hole surgery on the Höffie today. Pots work fine and there are no broken solder joints. The pickup has about 10% of the normal output.

Also the pickup mounting ring was sanded down at the bottom, probably to lower it.

The bridge base is shaved too.

So: the pickup goes to be rewound, the carcass for a neck reset, and I ordered a new reissue bridge. Anyone has a spare mounting ring? It's the smaller type with 4 height adjustment screws in the sides. I will also look for a correct tone knob, the set screw is shot.

(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll127/ilanlukatch/hofnerf-holesurgery.jpg)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: uwe on July 28, 2012, 08:23:08 AM
"The bridge base is shaved too."

That is what Höfner owners do as the neck angle starts to wander. A classic symtom. It works for a while, but after a few years you cannot escape the inevitable reset.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on July 28, 2012, 01:03:24 PM
I think at this point this thread can be moved to "Projects, Mods & Repairs"...
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: drbassman on July 29, 2012, 10:07:38 AM
I think at this point this thread can be moved to "Projects, Mods & Repairs"...

We'd like to see the progress.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on July 29, 2012, 02:12:37 PM
So I took the pickup today to the local pickup guru. I'll know tomorrow if it's a simple fix or if it needs a rewind.

Next I took the bass to my upright bass luthier. He noticed an interesting thing. The body has a "bass bar" under the top like a violin-family instrument, running the length of the body, but for some unknown reason it's under the treble side, not the bass side. The bass bar has started to delaminate and will be glued back without opening the body, it can be done with a special clamp through the f-hole - we are lucky the f holes are wide - and he will use the output jack hole to inject the glue.

He removed the neck and showed me that it was removed before. It was an amateur job... whoever did it made small nail holes in the pocket walls to "help the glue". My luthier said that carpenters do things like that. The neck was glued with plastic adhesive... but he said not to worry, he can deal with it.

Here is the pocket right after the neck was removed. the small pieces of missing veneer are from the amateur reset. Those will be fixed too.

(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll127/ilanlukatch/photo1.jpg)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Highlander on July 29, 2012, 02:38:47 PM
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Dave W on July 29, 2012, 07:59:26 PM
I had no idea they used a bass bar in an electric, and no idea why it would be on the treble side.

The neck reset should be fairly easy for him.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: patman on July 30, 2012, 04:53:00 AM
Even dis-assembled, that is a beautiful, graceful instrument. Obviously designed by people who cared.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Dave W on July 30, 2012, 11:23:57 AM
... Obviously designed by people who cared.

Yes, by 17th century Italians from Cremona.  ;)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: drbassman on July 31, 2012, 06:18:00 AM
The neck reset is an easier fix than the veneer repair would be.  Looks pretty straight forward.  Just be sure things line up properly before you glue!  Might need a new base for the bridge too.  A new bridge is a cheap fix.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on July 31, 2012, 07:10:35 AM
The original bridge is shaved beyond restoration. At its max height it's still 4mm below the Hofner specs for min height. I ordered a replacement and the luthier will make sure its a perfect fit to the top curve, like you would on an upright.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Dave W on July 31, 2012, 07:41:50 AM
I imagine the neck reset and bridge fitting will cost you almost as much as the bass. You got a bargain at £300, though, and when he's done it should be good as new or better.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: uwe on July 31, 2012, 02:33:34 PM
Buying a Höfner and keeping it means that you'll have to do these investments sooner or later. Look at the neck body contact, that just can't last forever.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on August 02, 2012, 10:05:52 AM
Update: the delaminated bass bar was glued back. It was detached from under the top at both ends. We discussed installing a soundpost. I did some googling and found that Gretsch has used soundposts on some arch tops, to suppress feedback by getting the top and back moving in unison.

The nice piece of flamed maple he used to protect the top under the clamps is a leftover from a violin side.

Tomorrow he will glue the neck into place.

(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll127/ilanlukatch/bassbar.jpg)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on August 05, 2012, 01:01:33 PM
The neck is glued back in place. Next the luthier will shape the bridge base to fit the top curve like they do with violin family bridges.

(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll127/ilanlukatch/photo3.jpg)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: patman on August 05, 2012, 04:00:39 PM
being a hillbilly, I always did that with double sided tape and sand paper applied to the bass top....how does a real luthier do it?
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on August 06, 2012, 03:31:24 AM
@patman: From what I've seen they use chalk until they see a perfectly uniform footprint of the bridge feet. I was told this can take up to 3 days with upright basses.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on August 06, 2012, 03:37:35 AM


Strung!

The shaved bridge is still on the bass, on a maple strip. I'll bring the new bridge to the luthier today after work. 

(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll127/ilanlukatch/photo5.jpg)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: godofthunder on August 06, 2012, 04:30:16 AM
Very very nice!
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: dadagoboi on August 06, 2012, 05:03:55 AM
one way is to use a contour gauge for the rough measurement on the body.

Great rolling bench/double bass jig!  I like the use of a single band clamp to hold the neck into the pocket while the glue dries.  Did he use hide glue?
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on August 06, 2012, 05:52:05 AM
Did he use hide glue?
Of course. And he assured me that if the bass ever needs another neck reset, it will be an easy and quick job.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on August 06, 2012, 12:18:39 PM
The new bridge base has to be carved to fit the top. It's made to fit a 500/1 top, which is more curved due to the small body. The Senator is less curved there. So as is, the bridge base only touches the body at two points, on either side. This needs to be fixed. This whole thing is not going to be cheap, I'm afraid.

And then the bass will need fret leveling/redress. Still no verdict on the pickup.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Dave W on August 06, 2012, 01:16:58 PM
You'll still treasure it when it's done.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on August 07, 2012, 03:41:17 AM
Okay, I'm giving up on the pickup. Bought this 60's Hofner pickup off eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/180935982978?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_716

(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/VINTAGE-1960S-KAPA-HOFNER-STAPLE-TOP-BASS-PICKUP-GOOD-USED-CONDITION-3-/00/s/Nzg3WDgyMQ==/$T2eC16NHJIYE9qUcM76YBQDZ-0OGzg~~60_1.JPG)

Maybe later I'll try to fix the original pickup.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on August 15, 2012, 11:16:44 PM
This pic of a 500/8 bass shows a soundpost!

(http://www.vintagehofner.co.uk/vintage-hofner/bass/bas9e.jpg)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Dave W on August 16, 2012, 08:01:27 AM
I don't see how it can hurt the sound to have one installed in yours.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: copacetic on August 16, 2012, 11:06:53 AM
Ilan, I have a 1964 500/5 (President) in all original perfect condition. However I have always felt I could get a little more out of it if the Hofner bridge was not just in contact on those 2 points. I think if the bridge was made to be in total contact would be a little more effective. Is that what you are having your luthier make? If not could you ask him? Thanks
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: dadagoboi on August 16, 2012, 12:03:06 PM
Ilan, I have a 1964 500/5 (President) in all original perfect condition. However I have always felt I could get a little more out of it if the Hofner bridge was not just in contact on those 2 points. I think if the bridge was made to be in total contact would be a little more effective. Is that what you are having your luthier make? If not could you ask him? Thanks

Pictures of a few hundred double bass/cello bridges.  ALL contact the body at 2 points only.  Same with archtop guitar bridges.

https://www.google.com/search?q=viola,+cello+bridge&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=zjl&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=L0EtUP3AMoiK8QSPrYDACA&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAQ&biw=1133&bih=533#hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=NP6&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=double+bass+bridge&oq=double+bass+bridge&gs_l=img.12..0j0i24l9.115814.118987.0.124325.11.11.0.0.0.0.160.1322.2j9.11.0...0.0...1c.BbFDBkw3jMA&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=13bc2f125afc60ba&biw=1133&bih=533

There must be a reason they're made that way.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: uwe on August 16, 2012, 01:36:52 PM
Because full contact would stiffen the top and deaden sound on an acoustic instrument that relies on a flexible top? Just a thought, but if so that wouldn't apply to an electric instrument.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: patman on August 16, 2012, 01:56:55 PM
I think Uwe is correct...on a banjo, the more mass a bridge has, and the larger footprint it has, the less sound you get.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: nofi on August 16, 2012, 02:05:32 PM
i don't think it would have any affect on an electric bass unless you're noodling on it unplugged. the hofner doesn't 'rely' on a flexible top for sound like an acoustic does. it has those pick up thingies.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: patman on August 16, 2012, 03:26:22 PM
I think one would still hear it.  It just wouldn't be as "live" and fun and responsive to play.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Dave W on August 16, 2012, 05:00:08 PM
I've read that the heavier the bridge is, the harder it is for the top to vibrate. The same principle might apply to a bridge with too much contact area.

Brad (hollowbody) ought to know, he does violin repair.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: hollowbody on August 16, 2012, 05:57:28 PM
Correct, Dave.  On a violin, it's a balancing act between mass and stiffness.  You want the bridge to be as thin as possible to allow the top to vibrate freely but still be strong enough to support the string tension.  It probably won't make too much of a difference if you were to put a solid bridge on it but I think it would look funny.

I do wonder about that "soundpost."  It appears to be in a position that wouldn't do much for sound.  More than likely it's there for structural support.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on August 16, 2012, 11:48:56 PM
The bridge feet should be in full and perfect contact with the top for optimal sound. That's the case with all violin/viol family instruments. I remember my upright before and after having the bridge done... it's critical.

Copacetic, any violin maker can shape it for you. They rub chalk under the bridge feet and check the "stamp" on the body until it's a perfect fit.

Uwe: The top should be flexible, but that's what the f-holes are for. Their sole purpose is to make the area of the top surrounding the bridge vibrate more freely. Good contact of the bridge transfers the string energy to the top, and the f-holes help it vibrate. That is why violins don't have round sound holes like guitars.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ThunderBucker on August 17, 2012, 08:56:35 AM
Okay, I'm giving up on the pickup. Bought this 60's Hofner pickup off eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/180935982978?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_716

(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/VINTAGE-1960S-KAPA-HOFNER-STAPLE-TOP-BASS-PICKUP-GOOD-USED-CONDITION-3-/00/s/Nzg3WDgyMQ==/$T2eC16NHJIYE9qUcM76YBQDZ-0OGzg~~60_1.JPG)

Maybe later I'll try to fix the original pickup.

wow that looks just like the pickups on my japanese Pan bass.  I guess Hofner is where they cloned them from .  I'd be happy to fix that pickup for you, mainly just to see whats inside.  It might just be an internal solder joint.  Charge a nominal fee-not much, tho I might have to buy a reel of wire, if it turns out to be something I don't stock. email at thunderbucker@gmail.com
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on August 17, 2012, 09:23:53 AM
Oops, I put it yesterday on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261083313745?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_500wt_1414) and it already has one bid! Do you think I can still pull it?

EDIT: I can't end the auction. Still 5 days to go. I'll think of something.

Anyway, a friend who occasionally rewinds vintage pickups took it apart and said it's not just a simple broken solder joint. One coil is OK and the other one is dead. It's a very thin wire, btw, significantly thinner than Fender wire.

I figured that if I can buy a working period-correct pickup for $125, that's a good deal.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ThunderBucker on August 17, 2012, 09:39:16 AM
Oops, I put it yesterday on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261083313745?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_500wt_1414) and it already has one bid! Do you think I can still pull it?

EDIT: I can't end the auction. Still 5 days to go. I'll think of something.

Anyway, a friend who occasionally rewinds vintage pickups took it apart and said it's not just a simple broken solder joint. One coil is OK and the other one is dead. It's a very thin wire, btw, significantly thinner than Fender wire.

I figured that if I can buy a working period-correct pickup for $125, that's a good deal.

No worries, if you end up needing it fixed, let me know. It'll cost just a little more than a spool of wire, about $40-50 (that counts shipping).  I am curious about what is inside these things...
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: chromium on August 17, 2012, 09:54:25 AM
Do you think I can still pull it?

EDIT: I can't end the auction. Still 5 days to go. I'll think of something.

Ilan- you can end an auction with bids if its >12 hours before the auction's end.  You have to first cancel the bid, and then it should let you end the auction.  I had to do that once to accomodate the sale of an item outside of ebay.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on August 20, 2012, 08:46:50 AM
I cancelled the 3 bids and now I get this:

    These listings cannot be edited, because of following restrictions:

    Item #261083313745 - Vintage 1964 Hofner bass pickup - not working, for restoration or parts

   
This feature cannot be used with this item because it is an Auction-style Format item
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: chromium on August 20, 2012, 09:01:45 AM
I cancelled the 3 bids and now I get this:

    These listings cannot be edited, because of following restrictions:

    Item #261083313745 - Vintage 1964 Hofner bass pickup - not working, for restoration or parts

   
This feature cannot be used with this item because it is an Auction-style Format item

Try this link to end your listing:  http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?EndingMyAuction

Been a while since I've had to do that, but there's more info here if it helps:  http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/end_early.html
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on August 20, 2012, 09:11:20 AM
Okay... that worked. The item was ended. Thanks, chromium!

Thunderbucker: check your mail.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on September 08, 2012, 10:03:23 PM
On Thursday my son took the Senator to a jazz gig at a gallery opening and I got a chance to hear it from the audience in a band context.

Strung with TI Jazz Flats and played through a GK MB150 combo, it sounded very "acoustic", like halfway between electric bass and upright. More open and slightly punchier than a "Beatle bass".

My son commented that he would like to raise the action on the E string side, but otherwise he loved it.

4.4lbs., by the way. It's the Weightless Wonder.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: patman on September 09, 2012, 05:33:25 AM
Sounds like that is one awesome bass.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Dave W on September 09, 2012, 04:06:08 PM
Was this using the pickup you bought on eBay, or has the original been repaired?
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: nofi on September 10, 2012, 06:33:56 AM
ilan, what sort of jazz does your son play. when i hear the word jazz i think of mostly upright players, except for dave holland with miles davis. bass guitar people speak of playing jazz and i am curious as to what artists they are talking about.   
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: patman on September 10, 2012, 06:48:47 AM
In the Cincy Rockers, we still play stuff like "Fly Me To the Moon" and "Misty"  "Route 66" et al...

"Blue Skies" and "This Masquerade"...both of the front people in the band love singing that stuff, and people who come see the band love to dance to it.  Sometimes when we play the dancers in the crowd are the most amazing thing...

I like to get on the electric upright and try to make it swing, although I can't be a dyed-in the wool jazzer- (I like all kinds of music--with the exception of most metal and rap)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on September 10, 2012, 12:46:19 PM
Was this using the pickup you bought on eBay, or has the original been repaired?
The one I bought on eBay. I still intend to send the faulty one for a rewind and then A/B them and use whichever sounds better.

ilan, what sort of jazz does your son play. when i hear the word jazz i think of mostly upright players 
Mostly standards, very traditional. Guitar, alto sax, drums, bass. But they also played Jaco's The Chicken, you want a horizontal bass for that one.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on December 01, 2012, 01:05:51 PM
Now my daughter likes it... she plays alto sax.

(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll127/ilanlukatch/5D305E405E005D405D505D405D405D505E405E005E80.jpg)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Lightyear on December 01, 2012, 08:52:52 PM
Now my daughter likes it... she plays alto sax.

(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll127/ilanlukatch/5D305E405E005D405D505D405D405D505E405E005E80.jpg)

That's a very cute picture!
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on December 17, 2012, 02:45:51 PM
I'd be happy to fix that pickup for you, mainly just to see whats inside
Got the pickup back, installed it, sounds great, the bass is back to original (except for the bridge)... Great job on that old pickup, Thanks bro!
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: drbassman on December 17, 2012, 05:42:45 PM
What beauty!  Nice bass too!   :). Nothing more heartwarming than our kids playing an instrument.  Music is so good for the soul!
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on January 12, 2013, 12:28:03 PM
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll127/ilanlukatch/Hofner%20Senator%20Bass%201964/houmlfner_zpsddb5f961.jpg)
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: drbassman on January 12, 2013, 04:27:06 PM
Ah, a soft warm Polaroid moment,  beautiful!
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: ilan on January 13, 2013, 12:32:05 AM
Exactly... It was taken with the "Xolaroid 2000 San Francisco 1972" Retro Camera iPhone app. It captured the exact color of the bass, that the stock iPhone camera can't. I would rather not have the "film scratches" effect, but other than that, this is how the bass looks in real life.

Now it's my iPhone wallpaper.
Title: Re: Hofner again...
Post by: Dave W on January 13, 2013, 08:08:27 AM
Very nice photo, sure doesn't look like anything done with an iPhone camera.