The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: cbs911944 on March 16, 2018, 09:12:28 PM
-
I've got a Triumph Les Paul Bass that was rewired.
It was wired with only the hi output coils, the phase, decade, and Hi - Lo switches were removed along with the internal transformer, and the control plate was replaced without the holes & slots that were on the original.
I want get the controls back into original functioning condition.
The original Decade switch controls the 3 taps on the 2 pickups, position 1 selected Lo taps on both pickups, position 2 selected Mid taps on both pickups, position 3 selected Hi taps on both pickups,
The only blade switch I think I can get to replicate the Decade Switch is a (5W4PSSS) 5 way 4 pole strat super switch .
I can wire the 5W4PSSS so the 3 original Decade switch selections are available, this leaves 2 switch positions available for additional configurations.
Since this bass has a single volume control, so changing the balance between the pickups isn't available in the original wiring design.
I could wire the 5W4PSSS switch so pickup A is on the full power pickup tap, while the pickup B is on one of the lower power taps.
Which of the following 2 configurations would you suggest:
A) First Additional Position [Neck Hi Tap : Bridge Mid Tap] & Second Additional Position [Neck Mid Tap : Bridge Hi Tap]
B) First Additional Position [Neck Hi Tap : Bridge Mid Tap] & Second Additional Position [Neck Hi Tap : Bridge Lo Tap]
C) First Additional Position [Neck Mid Tap : Bridge Hi Tap] & Second Additional Position [Neck Lo Tap : Bridge Hi Tap]
Thanks,
V/R Brent,
-
That's what I used for my Les Paul Bass; a double wafer 5 way lever switch.
It was really the only option I had when I had to revive the bass after I bought it in deplorable state 18 years ago.
Maybe there are other options today, but the double wafer 5 way switch has worked for me.
I used 2, 3 and 4 as they would have on the original switch.
And I wired 1 the same as 2. And 5 the same as 4.
I have thought about using 1 or 5 as kill switch, to be able to silence the bass.
Strictly the original switch is not a decade. It's just a three way switch.
-
Here are a couple shots of a NOS control plate that I bought a number of years ago.
(https://i.imgur.com/Rw26OK0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BX7aO6S.jpg)
-
No Decade on the Rec/Triumph bassses - only the Low Z guitars.
For what it's worth, I would wire the tap switch so that each position is the same tap on both pickups. I had no issue resolving balance issue between the pups by adjusting relative pickup height. They are rather well behaved pickups in terms of not having crazy resonances and peaks in their response.
Note also that there are 2 versions of the schem floating around the net. One has incorrect wiring for the pup coil taps. There's a thread on here somewhere where we sort that out (IIRC the same thread starts out about the Les Paul-owned prototype pickups sans covers that were on ebay at the time), but if you can't find it let me know; I think I saved that all as a document for my offline reference.
-
Could you attach the correct schematic?
Thanks Brent,
-
This is the wiring diagram from Jules' site:
(http://www.flyguitars.com/graphics/LesPaulTriumph.jpg)
I don't recall any mention of it as being incorrect.
-
I believe that's taken from Gibson's own schematic.
http://archive.gibson.com/Files/schematics/LPBass.PDF
-
If it's from the Gibson site then IIRC it was the wrong one - both were the same, the only difference was which colour wire was each coil's common - in the sense that the one end is always fixed - either hot or ground depending which coil (top or bottom). In the pic above that is Orange aka brown.
... yep here's my breakdown (get comfy, it's a long one): http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=8520.msg141275#msg141275
Short version:
Les Paul himself wired his up with (his portotype's equivalent of) Orange/Brown as the common so Jules' schem (pictured above) is correct. There is a minor error in that diagram however (in that it will work as intended, they just drew the coil wrong) - Green is the other extreme end of the coil not Red (but green is still wired to one of the switches outer positions - 1 or 3, not labelled so interpret as you will, so that's fine; worst case pos 1 for you = pos 3 as stock, but 2 is the same either way).
Some further comments:
So my old post does indicate that the official Gibson diagram were incorrect as regards common = green not orange as above... yep: http://archive.gibson.com/Files/schematics/LPTriumph-RecBass.PDF as well as the LPBass schem Dave posted above (not a Triumph schem like Jules', but looks like the exact same drawing as the other Gibby schem, with a diff model name and scanned the other way around). Neither of those Gibby schems are the same as Jules' (they got the wiring scheme wrong but drew the coil correctly). I don't recall the source for Jules', but I assume it was Gibson at some point because the drawing is nearly identical (aside from wiring scheme and "Or" vs Brown); coulda been shopped by someone though I have quite a few Gibson bass schems with that style of model name font (and on the left vs right) and sans the official boarder/letterhead/template (also they all tend to be JPG/GIF vs PDF like the ones currently on the Gibson site).
As far as we have been able to determine, the wire colour scheme has not changed from the 60s to the 70s (though Les' prototype had 8 different colours, including both brown and orange (as well as both gray and greeen), and a few other minor differences; see above link), though Orange vs Brown is still a little perplexing; nobody ever confirmed they own a pup with orange leads. I doubt they all darkened that much over time and Gibson currently says they are brown (which they are). I suppose the one thing that we can still check is whether - despite no change in wire scheme - Gibson just started wiring them up differently at some point. Possibly due to the reason I give in the linked thread above re why I initially thought that green= common was correct (aside from that being the way Gibson officially says it should be via the schems they currently have publicly posted). That would explain the 2 official-looking schems that have backwards wiring and why now both LPB and Triumph schems on their site are the same - they found the one, scanned it twice (adding the boarder/changing the model name) thinking NBD since both models where the same electrically but forgetting about the wire switch cuz that was decades ago and those people were gone.
I don't know what vintage my spare pups are from, but we had Rob check his LPbass as regards wire colours.
Now I want to go check my Triumph (1975) to see how it's wired up... maybe I have a pic.... yep - brown goes to the pup selector switch so that is common (the other, green, wire is short jumper from the phase switch; doesn't count):
(http://grannygremlin.com/images/nonwebpics/Triumph/Wiring.jpg)
-
Hey Guys Thanks for your help.
V/R Brent
-
First time poster here. I'm working on a friends les paul triumph bass. The selector switch is bad,so I bought a replacement swithcraft switch & a now trying to resolder the connections and am confused as to what wire goes where. I know the 2 blacks go to ground.Green goes to one side, brown to the other, but where does the other brown & the pink wire go ? I drew a diagram as I was taking it apart, but now I can't find it. According to the serial number this one was made on April 17th 1980.
-
You found a replacement switch? Where? It's not just the same as a Tele switch.
It is designed to connect the same taps of both coils of each humbucker. Basically like colours to like colours (green and green from pup 1 and green and green from pup 2 and so on). Use 1 brown lead as ground and the other brown as hot. Make sure that you use the same brown for hot on both pups, though worst case the phase switch will put it right. Luckily the wires for each coil are on opposite sides of the pup, so that's easy. Ideally it would be the brown from the top coil (stacked humbucker) that is hot, to figure out which that is (assuming not still wired in) connect brown and green from 1 coil to a jack, plug her in, and tap on the blade pole piece on the top of the pickup (with something metal/magnetic; not aluminium). If you get distinct signal then that brown is what you want for hot, if faint that's probably ground (tap on bottom pole piece to confirm - yes if now get a strong signal).
-
Well it looks like I left out one important word in my post. I am replacing the pickup selector switch.Sorry for the mistake. I need to know what wires go where on the pickup selector switch.
-
Here is a shot of the selector switch. Note the tabs soldered together where the red wire is attached...............
(https://i.imgur.com/mVhQSKx.jpg)
-
Well it looks like I left out one important word in my post. I am replacing the pickup selector switch.Sorry for the mistake. I need to know what wires go where on the pickup selector switch.
Ah, I shoulda got that. Grog's got you. The green wire is the hot from the phase switch. The hot (brown) from the other pickup (via the tone /coil tap select switch) is missing from Grog's pic but it in mine further up (harder to see, not a close up) - it goes on that other tab; the mirror twin to the one where the green is. Black is ground (in Grog's case, coming off the phase switch; looks like mines wired that way too).
-
Thanks guys, I think I got it now.
-
This was a NOS control assembly. I bought it mostly to get the control plate, which I switched right away. The sellers mother was a former worker from the Kalamazoo Gibson factory. This was about fifteen years ago. He seemed to know many of the retired / former Gibson employees & what they may have had stashed away from the closed factory. Just about anything I needed, he could find me. Those were the days!!
-
Well I soldered the green wire to the left lug of the switch.I soldered the 2 blacks to the ground lug. I soldered the 1 brown from the front pickup to the right lug. I bent the 2 center lugs together & soldered the pink to it. Now I have 1 brown from the front pickup left to solder. When I look at the schematic it shows the front pickup with the other brown wire going to ground. So I soldered that wire to the ground lug. I have sound, but now when you turn the bass tone pot up the volume goes up, & it is not the tone changing it's the volume. Now I am really confused.
-
Where are those 2 black ground wires coming from going to? One should come off the tone pot (lug 1 or 3; 1 is unused) and the other to a ground point (such as a pot casing or sleeve of the jack. In Grog's pic, looks like it goes to the Vol pot case.
Also if that 0.15 cap on the tone pot is not connected (blown 'open' vs shorted, or just one side has a cold solder joint nor otherwise broken connection - check that the lead soldered to the tone pot case is actually making connection to the case) the tone pot will act as a variable resistive pad.
-
One black wire comes off the phase switch to ground & one black wire comes off ground on the pickup switch & grounds on the volume pot. This one looks like Grog' picture as well. Every thing looks good as far as solder joints on the bass tone pot.I am not real tech as far as testing capacitors & don't know how to test them. Just an observation not related to the problem. The body appears to have a 1/8" piece of maple sandwiched between the mahogany like some les pauls of that era. I always thought that they were solid mahogany.
-
Caps are 20c; just replace it (keep it in case that wasn't the issue for originality' I guess).
-
I went to radio shack yesterday. They didn't have a .15 cap so I bought a .22 cap instead. Gonna try & work on it tonight.
-
The body appears to have a 1/8" piece of maple sandwiched between the mahogany like some les pauls of that era. I always thought that they were solid mahogany.
It's a mahogany veneer that was turned 90 degrees, so it lays cross grain to the rest of the front and back.
-
Well I finally got to replace the .15 cap with a .22 & guess what it worked !!! Have full control of bass tone with no volume increase Thanks for the help guys.
-
beauty; glad that worked out.