The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Bass Zone => Topic started by: TBird1958 on October 17, 2010, 08:58:23 AM
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Just a nice shot of Tom Petersson playing his new Lull Thunderbird in Vegas......You can't see it too well in this pic but the pickups are close together and well forward of the "stock" position.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/Cheaptrick.jpg)
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Tom wanted the pickups closer to the neck like a Hofner Beatle bass.
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Here's a pic:
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I like that ! I hate bridge pups they get in my way ! Any bass I have with a bridge pup that sucker get screwed right down as low as it can go...................................or removed!
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I know. I just built another Hamer 8 string Reverse Thunderbird This time...One pickup...In the sweet spot...the standard single pickup T Bird neck pickup location. I'm thinking...If I don't sell the 12ver t bird...Plug the bridge route and refin it. Leave it a single pickup.
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Very nice bass! I don't like gold hardware normally, but I'd sell one of my bad kidneys for this one!
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Very cool. :mrgreen:
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Is it just me or is that bridge way bigger than it needs to be? Otherwise Cool Bass!
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Is it just me or is that bridge way bigger than it needs to be? Otherwise Cool Bass!
It's no different than mine except for the gold color.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/bridges015.jpg)
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No offense Mark but it seems that with the bridge located properly, ala JAE's Fenderbirds, the amount of adjustment on the originals was enough.
The Lull bridge looks clunky to me with the unnecessary acorn nuts and its excess width. Also, notice how much room there is behind the E saddle. It's lined up with the centerline of the post and the G saddle is slammed against the front rail. That's sloppy for a $4k bass IMHO.
It's no different than mine except for the gold color.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/bridges015.jpg)
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Ummmm.....
We're all entitled to an opinion so no problem.
The G string saddle doesn't touch the front of the bridge tho, Hipshot designed the part and it fully intonates unlike the original, and it's pretty much the same size as Scott's part too, that's not my opinion, it's fact..........
Calling it sloppy work is your own uninformed opinion tho, I don't happen to share it, because I own what is in question and know it works and that it's good quality. The bass plays better than any of my others, stays in tune, intones properly, and hasn't needed any adjustment in the year and a half that I've owned it, so the part in question functions well. As it's a very well made bass that quite a few famous players use presently (Tom Petersson's will be a sig model, and Jeff Ahment will have one next year as well, if it's good enough for pro's it'll FOR work me.) I'll keep my opinion and trust Mike's well established credentials as both a luthier, and repairman, you might want to actually own what it is that you claim to have an opinion about. Oh yeah, one other thing, if you're going price my bass, get it right - $5400.00 ;)
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(at least there was a 4 in it...) Oh, you extravagant so-and-so... ;D
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/Peter%20Cook%20Custom/20090425MUD1.jpg)
I don't have a present close up to hand but the PC has the saddles reversed on the E and A - that's how she came and I've never adjusted - intonation has always been spot-on...
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And I'm not saying that Mike's solution is the only one by any means.
This is Curt's beautiful Orville, I don't know who's bridge it has on it! Howevr the good Dr Bassman's tailpiece is present. And I'm still pimpin' Scott ;)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/bridges005.jpg)
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Ummmm.....
We're all entitled to an opinion so no problem.
The G string saddle doesn't touch the front of the bridge tho, Hipshot designed the part and it fully intonates unlike the original, and it's pretty much the same size as Scott's part too, that's not my opinion, it's fact..........
Calling it sloppy work is your own uninformed opinion tho, I don't happen to share it, because I own what is in question and know it works and that it's good quality. The bass plays better than any of my others, stays in tune, intones properly, and hasn't needed any adjustment in the year and a half that I've owned it, so the part in question functions well. As it's a very well made bass that quite a few famous players use presently (Tom Petersson's will be a sig model, and Jeff Ahment will have one next year as well, if it's good enough for pro's it'll FOR work me.) I'll keep my opinion and trust Mike's well established credentials as both a luthier, and repairman, you might want actually own what it is that you claim to have an opinion about. Oh yeah, one other thing, if you're going price my bass, get it right - $5400.00 ;)
I'm a designer, both practical and aesthetic. I stated my opinion. It appears to me the G string saddle is adjusted to it's maximum forward position or very close. If another high priced machine (a Ducati, say, of which I do happen to own two) came from the factory with with a supposed adjustment completely to it's limit it would be considered problematic. Why have a theoretical adjustment that can't be made? I don't have to own a Subaru to understand the quality and aesthetics of its construction or make an educated guess as to what the shortcomings of its boxer engine might be. I'm glad your bass intonates well. That might not be the case with a heavier gauge G string. I dig Ament's and Petersen's playing but I don't really care that a celebrity will have his name on a bass that he got for free.
The Orville bridge appears to have a similar problem though all in all it's better looking than the Lull. Again, just my opinion. I'm a Design and Engineering Fag. ;)
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I seriously doubt that Lull gives out basses for free. Sadowsky doesn't either.
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I seriously doubt that Lull gives out basses for free. Sadowsky doesn't either.
Free is the usual arrangement for a 'Signature Model.' Either that and/or a royalty.
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Mike does not give basses away to anybody. I recall a conversation with Paul, his office manager with regards to Ahment's 'Bird.... " We upcharged additional for his checkerboard finish and larger body size". T.P.'s is the same thing, buying one of Mike's basses thru a dealer does get a little discount from his list price.
Even a 3 point has plenty of travel, it's disiked by many but personally I love it, a versetile design.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/NikkiII004.jpg)
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I simply NEVER understood the rumour that the original Thunderbird bridges didn't intonate well. Those basses made in the factory have certain tolerances that the builders must follow. I have Never..and I mean Never had ANY intonation problems with all of the birds I have owned. I've owned probably 10 76's in my day and about......5-6 Nr birds and about 7-12 Original Reverses. I never understood why the bridge had to be wider. Alembic bass bridges are basically the same design as well. I think those 3 point pot metal bridges are horrible. They bend and break...very hard to adjust. The USA made ones are better than the Jap 3 points. I personally think the tune-o-matic thunderbird bridge was and still is the best design for a bridge. And I don't understand how a bolt on "Thunderbird" can sound as good as a neck through, but...it's only MY opinion. I never could understand the Boutique Fender style basses that were $5,000.00. Why not by an old P or J bass??? Oh well. to each his own. I'm glad we can voice our opinions here like adults. KENNY!!!!! WOULD YOU TRADE YOUR GOLD BRIDGE/TAILPIECE FOR A NICKEL ORIGINAL 60'S THUNDERBIRD BRIDGE/TAILPIECE THAT WAS OWNED BY LEON RUSSEL FROM LYNYRD SKYNARD???
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Mike does not give basses away to anybody. I recall a conversation with Paul, his office manager with regards to Ahment's 'Bird.... " We upcharged additional for his checkerboard finish and larger body size". T.P.'s is the same thing, buying one of Mike's basses thru a dealer does get a little discount from his list price.
Even a 3 point has plenty of travel, it's disiked by many but personally I love it, a versetile design.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/NikkiII004.jpg)
Well I guess it's a safe bet there won't be a Gene Simmons model ;D
Leon Wilkerson, Baz. Off a Tbird that was given him by John Entwistle...how much do you want for it?
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It appears to me the G string saddle is adjusted to it's maximum forward position or very close. If another high priced machine came from the factory with with a supposed adjustment completely to it's limit it would be considered problematic. Why have a theoretical adjustment that can't be made? ... I'm glad your bass intonates well. That might not be the case with a heavier gauge G string.
Without delving into the disagreement, I have a question: wouldn't it be lighter gauge strings or lower alternate tunings that would require more travel from the bridge? In my experience, even if you adjust the trussrod, as the overall string tension increases, the bridge scale has to be adjusted longer to keep the strings from going flat as the neck bends slightly under the added stress.
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Without delving into the disagreement, I have a question: wouldn't it be lighter gauge strings or lower alternate tunings that would require more travel from the bridge? In my experience, even if you adjust the trussrod, as the overall string tension increases, the bridge scale has to be adjusted longer to keep the strings from going flat as the neck bends slightly under the added stress.
Yeah, my bad, I was quoting Uwe as to why the original Tbird bridge was in the wrong place, he said it was due to the very heavy gauge strings used.
My point was I would like to see all the strings when properly intonated having some space between the saddles and max adjustment just to take into account different string gauges that might be used...I know intonating the 3 point on my Orville is a bitch. Adjusting any of the three posts changes intonation across all the strings.
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My point was I would like to see all the strings when properly intonated having some space between the saddles and max adjustment just to take into account different string gauges that might be used...
Geez Carlo are you sure you're not an engineer instead if a designer? ??? :P
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Geez Carlo are you sure you're not an engineer instead if a designer? ??? :P
When I design an RTA (ready to assemble) chair it's engineered so that the pieces go into the smallest possible box in order to get the maximum number in a shipping container and bring down the cost by not shipping 'air'. I also design the packaging and take the pictures for and write the assembly instructions. This is in addition to signing off on every construction detail. I'm always seeing what I could have done better and trying to improve.
Engineering is the 95% perspiration that turns the 5% inspiration into reality.
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Well I guess it's a safe bet there won't be a Gene Simmons model ;D
Leon Wilkerson, Baz. Off a Tbird that was given him by John Entwistle...how much do you want for it?
Simmons = :D :D :D
And it's WILKESON! :P
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You know, the nice thing about fretless - no intonation issues, as long as you got the ear... ;)
KENNY!!!!! WOULD YOU TRADE YOUR GOLD BRIDGE/TAILPIECE FOR A NICKEL ORIGINAL 60'S THUNDERBIRD BRIDGE/TAILPIECE???
Just get yours plated, Baz - same vintage as mine - I'm pretty certain I know why mine are gold-plated, and the source - If you plate yours they'll be pristine, unlike my abused babies... ;D
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Mike does not give basses away to anybody. I recall a conversation with Paul, his office manager with regards to Ahment's 'Bird.... " We upcharged additional for his checkerboard finish and larger body size". T.P.'s is the same thing, buying one of Mike's basses thru a dealer does get a little discount from his list price.
Even a 3 point has plenty of travel, it's disiked by many but personally I love it, a versetile design.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/NikkiII004.jpg)
I've asked this before but have forgotten what the item was for, the piece below the bridge?
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Hey Tony,
It's called an Opti-Grab ( From the Steve Martin move "The Jerk") and is only present on Nikki Sixx's two different Signature Thunderbirds. Mine is quite special tho, to my knowledge it's the only chrome plated one - ever ;D
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Thats a nice bass.
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Unnecessarily harsh criticism. :-\ I would sell off all my basses including the Sadowsky to get a Lull Bird.
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Unnecessarily harsh criticism. :-\
I don't think we should confine criticism to Import basses or shnooks selling what we consider inferior crap for inflated prices on Ebay or Craigslist.
Is discussing the merits of boutique basses in a civil manner OK or are we supposed to assume everything sold at a high price is flawless?
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"Even a 3 point has plenty of travel, it's disiked by many but personally I love it, a versetile design. "
I agree with Mark It is a bit of a pain to adjust/change string guages etc but it works ok. IMHO better than the old 2 points on the ebo's from the first half of the 60's. This one can only get close..... not that anyone could actually ever hear the small imperfection....
some story with old hofners and danos....
(http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac102/desantisjn/Gibson/gibebo2-1.jpg)
don't love these either but they work better
(http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac102/desantisjn/Gibson/gibeb3white.jpg)
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It's no different than mine except for the gold color.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/bridges015.jpg)
who's bridge is on the left??? I might want to put that one in my bachbird so i can tweak the string width a little. Sorry - been a fender guy since 1972 when i bought my first " real" bass - New SB p bass w ith rosewood neck for $171 plus $43 for the case. I still have it though i stupidily scrapped off the SB and added a j pup. i still have the tort which i need to put back on one of these days...
(http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac102/desantisjn/fender%20stuff/fender71pbass.jpg)
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That's Scott's Badbird bridge...very clean solution IMHO
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does he still sell them???
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Don't know but I'd be happy to put one on your JAEbird if he does.
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I don't think we should confine criticism to Import basses or shnooks selling what we consider inferior crap for inflated prices on Ebay or Craigslist.
Is discussing the merits of boutique basses in a civil manner OK or are we supposed to assume everything sold at a high price is flawless?
Sure it's okay. In the past I've been a harsh critic of those hideously ugly mutant singlecut boutique monstrosities (is that civil enough? ;) ). I'm only quiet about it because there are so few of them on this forum. But show me a piece of butt-ugly buckeye burl top and I might go crazy. ;D
Seriously, it's all a matter of taste. If the aesthetics of the Lull strike you the wrong way, you can certainly say so.
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Is discussing the merits of boutique basses in a civil manner OK or are we supposed to assume everything sold at a high price is flawless?
Please post some photos of some basses you're proud of. I'll be civil, I promise. ;D
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Couldn't insert Rockin's quote but here it is:
No, we don't assume that but I think your response could have shown a little more respect. I make it a rule never to diss a brother's instrument online no matter how I feel about it.
Here's my first comment which referred to the Petersen bass:
Is it just me or is that bridge way bigger than it needs to be? Otherwise Cool Bass!
my second:
No offense Mark but it seems that with the bridge located properly, ala JAE's Fenderbirds, the amount of adjustment on the originals was enough.
The Lull bridge looks clunky to me with the unnecessary acorn nuts and its excess width. Also, notice how much room there is behind the E saddle. It's lined up with the centerline of the post and the G saddle is slammed against the front rail. That's sloppy for a $4k bass IMHO.
Mark's reply:
Ummmm.....
We're all entitled to an opinion so no problem.
The G string saddle doesn't touch the front of the bridge tho, Hipshot designed the part and it fully intonates unlike the original, and it's pretty much the same size as Scott's part too, that's not my opinion, it's fact..........
Calling it sloppy work is your own uninformed opinion tho, I don't happen to share it, because I own what is in question and know it works and that it's good quality. The bass plays better than any of my others, stays in tune, intones properly, and hasn't needed any adjustment in the year and a half that I've owned it, so the part in question functions well. As it's a very well made bass that quite a few famous players use presently (Tom Petersson's will be a sig model, and Jeff Ahment will have one next year as well, if it's good enough for pro's it'll FOR work me.) I'll keep my opinion and trust Mike's well established credentials as both a luthier, and repairman, you might want to actually own what it is that you claim to have an opinion about. Oh yeah, one other thing, if you're going price my bass, get it right - $5400.00
Emphasis mine. If we followed that logic around here we could express very few opinions.
My response which I thought was fairly even handed after I was basically told to shut up and keep my opinions to my unpriveleged self since the pro's (sic) had spoken. I think it was fairly measured.
I'm a designer, both practical and aesthetic. I stated my opinion. It appears to me the G string saddle is adjusted to it's maximum forward position or very close. If another high priced machine (a Ducati, say, of which I do happen to own two) came from the factory with with a supposed adjustment completely to it's limit it would be considered problematic. Why have a theoretical adjustment that can't be made? I don't have to own a Subaru to understand the quality and aesthetics of its construction or make an educated guess as to what the shortcomings of its boxer engine might be. I'm glad your bass intonates well. That might not be the case with a heavier gauge G string. I dig Ament's and Petersen's playing but I don't really care that a celebrity will have his name on a bass that he got for free.
The Orville bridge appears to have a similar problem though all in all it's better looking than the Lull. Again, just my opinion. I'm a Design and Engineering Fag.
In the future I'll remember that people who own very expensive things get very touchy when you don't hold them in the high esteem they do.
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What I find funny and a bit sad is that the stated opinions about Mike's bridge come from someone that doesn't even own one to make any sort of comparison (Opinions are fine, they're like that 'other thing" we all have) and since size, (width) are the aesthetic issue, as opposed to a quality one I think it's fair to say...........
Since I own 5 different two point designs I'll share some dimensions......
1 My Surf Green Orville (previously pictured) is 5/8th wide, bridge intonates perfectly, Thanks again Curt for selling me a beautiful bass. ;D
2 My 2 BaCH's are 15/16 wide, the bridges function well and I know I'm not the only one that likes the look of these....... ;)
3 My Lull's bridge is also 15/16ths just like a BaCH, perhaps a surprise for some of you, not for me, since I own the parts in question and don't make baseless statements for others to misconstue as fact.
4 My 8 string Non Reverse ( Lovingly built by Baz Cooper) has (IIRC) a Hamer bridge that is 7/8th's wide, and works very well -Thanks Baz!
5 I have one of Scott's retro fit bridges as well, it's my intent to use it on my Greco Thunderbird II it works perfectly for the job he designed it to do and it measures 1" in width.
There's lots of contradiction in some peoples opinions with regard to width and aesthetic so here are some facts, again I own what is in question here. Baseless statements with regard to dimension and endorser deals are just that, no one says they can't be stated in a civil manner, but facts to the contrary get equal time.
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:popcorn:
Tommy's new bird looks kick ass! :mrgreen: ;D :mrgreen:
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Obviously my attempt at a little levity didn't work. :-\
In the future I'll remember that people who own very expensive things get very touchy when you don't hold them in the high esteem they do.
Yes, they do. Why are you surprised at this? You're still entitled to your opinion, just don't be surprised at the response.
You also might keep in mind that you're not just the average forum member expressing an opinion, you're starting to market basses you build. Although you're not in the same price range, you're still knocking a competitor's product. IMHO that's not a good business move.
What I find funny and a bit sad is that the stated opinions about Mike's bridge come from someone that doesn't even own one to make any sort of comparison (Opinions are fine, they're like that 'other thing" we all have) and since size, (width) are the aesthetic issue, as opposed to a quality one I think it's fair to say...........
IMHO your view will carry more weight with most people since you do own one. It does with me. But I have to agree with Carlo, if we can't express a negative opinion unless we own a product, this forum and most other gear forums would be very quiet.
Baseless statements with regard to dimension and endorser deals are just that, no one says they can't be stated in a civil manner, but facts to the contrary get equal time.
Agreed. And you did.
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The Oregon myrtle burl top on my Thunderbird was a budget-boutique build Dave... I'm happy to post for you to sling some abuse... er, pressure relief... ;D
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/Peter%20Cook%20Custom/20100727fittings2.jpg)
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So what does that pickup config sound like on TP's Bird?
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Obviously my attempt at a little levity didn't work. :-\
Yes, they do. Why are you surprised at this? You're still entitled to your opinion, just don't be surprised at the response.
You also might keep in mind that you're not just the average forum member expressing an opinion, you're starting to market basses you build. Although you're not in the same price range, you're still knocking a competitor's product. IMHO that's not a good business move.
IMHO your view will carry more weight with most people since you do own one. It does with me. But I have to agree with Carlo, if we can't express a negative opinion unless we own a product, this forum and most other gear forums would be very quiet.
Agreed. And you did.
Points well taken Dave, thanks. I don't consider Lull a competitor in the least. I'm selling value and all the compromises that entails.
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Tom can have his new Bird. I'm happy to have his old Embassy. :thumbsup: