The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bill's Shop: Projects, Mods & Repairs => Topic started by: Deathshead on February 08, 2010, 02:21:51 PM
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Hey there, anyone have much experience with guitar humbucker sized bass pickups?
Im going to be upgrading the pups in my epi les paul standard and I have alot more choices than originally thought.
Im looking for the following tone,
huge,sweet and with good bite. (I play alot of different styles, harder rock mostly. pick/fingers on roto flats.)
I have found the following out there, but never had too much expierience with many besides the Gibson TB plus's
The look does not matter, as i will be modding the pups to take nickel covers, easily done with a little sanding on say an emg..
EMG HB's.. IDK.. I have had some time with EMG p-bass pickups and to me, they just sounded bleh.. very very sterile. However never tried the "HB" model.
Bartolini 1cb - not currently showed on the bartolini site, and pricey $275 a pair!
Schaller bassbucker - cheap and alot pop up on ebay from time to time. Any experience with these?
Dimarzio basbucker? look just like the Schallers.. Same pup?
Rio grande pitbulls, I was really thinking about trying these out, I haven't heard 1 bad thing about them,
I have heard that these be 2 heavily modded 51'p bass single coils wound as a humbucker and stuffed into the guitar humbucker case and supposedly sound pretty big.
Fralin bassbucker - they have the correct look, but are pricey..
Seymour duncan hawkbucker,-- These are blade type humbuckers that should accept the chrome covers just fine, see these alot in there rickenbacker kit.
So thats about all I can find.. anyone have any clues too how these pickups might sound?.
Thanks for your help!
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Hi, you could also consider the original Gibson Les Paul TB+ pickups, they are on the bay for around 100$
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I have a pair of those LP pickups that I'm just waiting to drop into that cheap Epi I plan on running across one of these days. :)
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I'd go with the Gibson TB+ on Ebay. They will drop right in and make a Hell of an improvement imo.
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Ditto on the TB's. Also Pitbulls from Rio.
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I have been dying to try these-
Dimarzio X2N-7, X2N
http://basstremfanatics.forumotion.net/pickups-f16/dimarzio-x2n-t119.htm
f the specs are to be believed, than the X2N is by far the hottest guitar pickup currently on the market. But even though it is a guitar pickup, it is finding a new identity as a bass pickup. DiMarzio used to make an actual bass version called the X2N-B, but this was only in the naming, since the X2N and the X2N-B are the exact same pickup.
This is the Model DP102 made for six-string guitar. John Gallagher of Raven uses this exact pickup in his Explorer bass for his screaming distortion tone.
Also I believe Dimarzio Model G pickups would fit?
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Dimarzio model G gets my vote. But you knew that already. ;D Here is what one sounds like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvFX4GmKiYo
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The model G or the X2N are pretty interesting pups, especially the x2n, with chrome covers might just fit the bill,
I want somthing can get give me a nice bite the flats i run.. plus they are all over ebay for about $150 less than the pitbulls.
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You know, there are some X2N copies for the musician on a budget. Look here:
http://store.guitarfetish.com/gfsporacrpok1.html
All you have to do is buy them and add a pair of chrome humbucker covers...
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Got a reponse back from Dimarzio about the X2N vs X2N-B (alot of forums claim to have heard from Dimarzio that the X2n and X2N-B are identical, heres thier reponse..
1) They are not the same pickup. The X2N-B is louder and darker-sounding.
2) It is impossible to know in advance if an X2N will produce the sound you are looking for.
3) Installing a metal cover may cause noise problems, and we do not recommend this.
4) You might do better considering a D-Activator X (DP222). It has a more open sound than the X2N.
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Yep, no matter if somebody on a forum says otherwise, the X2N and X2N-B are not identical. But you don't want either of them if you want clear tone. That's not what they do.
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they are wound up fat and muddy or totally overdrive any preamp im guessing?
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Not a pleasant muddy like the Gibson EB-series mudbucker, more of a distorted sound. Its heyday was in the 80s. It would probably overdrive most solid state preamps at a low setting.
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Dimarzio model G gets my vote. But you knew that already. ;D Here is what one sounds like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvFX4GmKiYo
Sounds good! nice tube grind there..
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I quite like the pair of EMG's (branded "Select") that are in my Hohner Jack; I also fitted one in my Thunderbird which worked well but was a bit to "clean" for my likes - still planning to put it into my RD... I suppose they would be classed as "80's" ...
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Got word back from riogrande, and got an answer about the pitbulls,.
"On a few internet forums I have heard that the pitbull pickup is actually 2- 51' p-bass coils wound as a humbucker, is this true or is the pitbull a blade style pickup? .....YES "
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Well, now you know that it's definitely one of the above.
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hah, seriously, ya think, while they probably get alot of email with questions, you think I would of gotten a little more info then just simple yes or no answers, especially when these pups are over $200 for the set, thats a big chunk of change..
wtf?
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Look at this (http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=1062.msg13555#msg13555) post from another thread for an uncovered Pitbull.
It's really not two '51 coils. They would be slightly too large to fit under a HB cover and as Tony noted in that message, the polepieces are smaller. May be wound to the same general specs but definitely not identical.
Also note the polepiece spacing, don't know if that will be an issue for you.
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thinking about trying out a set of schaller 232 bassbuckers, "supposedly" they are a licensed copy of the original dimarzio model G.
They are built just like the rio grand pitbull,
They can be made to accept smooth chrome covers,.
and if they are anything like the dimarzio model g they should sound nice and fat with an attitude, especially both on full blast with
rotosound flats and a pick.
plus they are cheep!
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Look at this (http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=1062.msg13555#msg13555) post from another thread for an uncovered Pitbull.
It's really not two '51 coils. They would be slightly too large to fit under a HB cover and as Tony noted in that message, the polepieces are smaller. May be wound to the same general specs but definitely not identical.
Also note the polepiece spacing, don't know if that will be an issue for you.
Rio Grande pickups are made here in Houston and they are associated with Rockin' Robin Guitars and Robin Guitars. I discussed the Pitbull with the owner and he told me that the Pitbull was two of their 51 P pickups under the chrome cover. Might be that they trim the bobbins to facilitate the cover.
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i tried all sorts of stuff before coming up with a gtr size humbucker near the bridge to complement the mudbucker in the front of my eb4l.what i was most happy with was 2 carvin black blade(no polepiece lineup issues) type single coils,one rwrp, that i wire as a humbucker.they didnt cost lots and they add a nice brightness.one thing i did do was put a 2200pf capacitor to earth through a 5oo k pot(you could probably use a smaller one)at the point where the 2 single coils are wired together in series,i.e. where you would put a coil tap.what this does is give humbucking mids at one end of the pot travel and single coil tops at the other end while keeping the bass end humbucking-no mains hum.seems a little complex i know ,but its great having that edge at the same time as the mudbucker fatness.im sure you could even put a chrome cover over it no worries,its the same size as a gtr humbucker.
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Rio Grande pickups are made here in Houston and they are associated with Rockin' Robin Guitars and Robin Guitars. I discussed the Pitbull with the owner and he told me that the Pitbull was two of their 51 P pickups under the chrome cover. Might be that they trim the bobbins to facilitate the cover.
I know that's his standard response but I'm not buying it. Similar, yes. Two 51 P bobbins, could be, but would require some noticeable trimming.
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Does anyone know where to buy the Schaller 232 Bassbuckers? I haven't found them for sale anywhere online.
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There's a guy who's been selling a lot of Kramer parts on eBay who puts them up regularly. I don;t think he knows what they were called, as he just lists them as Schaller Bass Humbuckers. He's been asking $70 BIN. I'll have to go through my history and find the guy's eBay handle.
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(http://i49.tinypic.com/1zbv5eh.jpg)
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2iibspt.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/29ofi4n.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/n4tslj.jpg)
Heres from more specs on this pickup, Perhaps Herr Uwe could translate?
Thanks.,
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Schaller 232 Bassbuckers haven't been made for years. Schaller has a number of things on their site that have been discontinued. I think they just keep the specs or diagrams up for reference.
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Are you sure Dave? they are still listed in their current catalog and i see them listed on a very few online stores in germany..
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just got word from a dimarzio dealer that the X2N-B is still available, for $75 bucks.
take 7-10 days special order..
I wonder how 2 of these would sound in the LP standard.
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Are you sure Dave? they are still listed in their current catalog and i see them listed on a very few online stores in germany..
I'm not sure but you could check with Allparts since they're official importer for Schaller. My guess is that you'll find those online stores either don't actually have it in stock or have some old stock. As always, I could be wrong.
I remember we went through this several years ago with the replacement bridge for the EB-0. It was on Schaller's website and some stores had it listed but it was discontinued well before. I don't think any of the stores actually had any left.
just got word from a dimarzio dealer that the X2N-B is still available, for $75 bucks.
take 7-10 days special order..
I wonder how 2 of these would sound in the LP standard.
Twice as bad as one of them. :mrgreen:
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ok, so Allparts is checking availability on the schaller bassbucker for me, and I just got another response back from Dimarzio., I think i may roll the dice and try these, and listen to Dimarzio, I hope they know what they are talking about,...
"I also stated the X2N-B has very high output. It is not the same as the Model G, which had much lower output and a brighter sound. I do not think the X2N-B is a good choice. My personal suggestion is the D-Activator X neck model (DP221) which has medium output and a fairly clean and bright sound. It should work very well as a bass pickup. "
Neck pickup is 11.29 ohms
300mv output
Tone Guide
Treble: 4.5
Mid: 5.5
Bass: 6.5
after checking out the specs, the d activator x Neck pup comes in at 11.29 ohms, right around the range of alot of hot bass pickups are, Just wondering if i should buy 2 Neck pickups or get the bridge pickup for the bridge,
bridge is 14.51 ohms
500 output
Tone Guide
Treble: 4
Mid: 6
Bass: 5.5 (the last thing i want at the bridge is LESS bass, im trying to fatten it up and make it more usable.)
just as a guideline, the dimarzio ultra jazz pup has the following specs,
250mv output
12.30 ohms
treble 6
mid 4.5
bass 6.5
Im thinking the neck pup in both positions should work very well, and still have a nice agressive edge,
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Whatever floats your boat. But I would never buy a pickup based on output or resistance measurements. Never. Even the relative bass/treble/mid ratings don't tell you about tone.
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yea, very true i cant just go by "specs"
Schaller just emailed me back, they say that the bassbucker is thier own deisgn and not a dimarzio model g copy, they said they still make it too,.. so its looking like a toss up between the rio grand pitbull and the schaller,..
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Thanks Scott, (godofthunder) for selling me his spare Schaller bassbucker, looks like this is what i'll run in this bass if they sound good. its a cool old school design from the 70's hopefully are what im looking for.
now i just need to locate another for the bridge, Just got a reply from Schaller that they indeed DO still make them and that allparts can order them in, yay
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So, I realize that it's a little late but I also have a humbucker size bass pickup project that I need to sort out.
My project is a 76 Kramer 350 aluminum neck that needed to be rescued in a major way.
The previous owner "installed" EMG P & J pickups in this Koa body with a 1/4 inch drill bit and chisel or butter knife, the original pickup is long gone, screwed a Leo Quan in place of the original bridge and attached the worst looking home made pick guard ever to this already funky 4 string... they will burn in HELL for what they did to this poor instrument.
I too thought about the Pit Bulls but after assessing my needs I decided to try the budget approach... everything has been repaired but none of the hardware is original, I did splurge on a new Schaller bridge as locating an original was impossible.
I ordered a GFS rail type pickup and some blank covers tonight.
Since the Pit bulls are the same size I can always upgrade the bass in the future.
I'll keep y'all posted on the results.
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The Schallers should of came stock on that Kramer.
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Well, they may have been Schallers but the 350 and 450 had the chrome covers with KRAMER scratched in the top and a wooden pickup ring. If you go to that Vintage Kramer site and look at the electronics section there are some good pictures. They adjust for height from the back and they are pretty neat looking.
I thought about the 232s since they were OEM on some of the later models and noticed there is a guy on ebay selling off NOS or UOS examples. For that kind of cash I thought I'd just buy the Pit-Bull?
I'll keep you posted.
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I ordered a GFS rail type pickup and some blank covers tonight.
That sounds interesting, what models did you ordered? Power rails or crunchy rails? Power rails have a fuller sound and I think they'll be a better mach for a bass.
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Yep, I chose the power rails bridge model, it will probably sound ridiculous.
I thought that it would be the best suited for bass too.
I am, of course, only basing this theory on a gut feeling... no actual evidence ;D
I'll keep you posted
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Hey man you can't go wrong with gut feeling, that led me to buy that Epi Tbird some years ago! ;)
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Saw this on Ebay today:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1970S-DIMARZIO-PAF-BASS-PICKUP_W0QQitemZ220559542412QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar_Accessories?hash=item335a5f888c
Someone here might like it.
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Saw this on Ebay today:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1970S-DIMARZIO-PAF-BASS-PICKUP_W0QQitemZ220559542412QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar_Accessories?hash=item335a5f888c
Someone here might like it.
I am watching that way to much $ 30-40 is more like it
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So is this basically the first version of the Model G?
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went back and forth the other day about the model g and the bassbucker, the this guy posted a pretty interesting pic of one cracked open, he swears its a x2n with pole peices instead of blades..
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=569920&highlight=bassbuckers (http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=569920&highlight=bassbuckers)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/1ptpjc.jpg)
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Just wanted to point that too that smooth chrome covers fit over the bassbuckers wonderfully, better then their own covers..
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Could be a different model with the same coil winding, but if it has polepieces I don't think it's an X2N even if he says so.
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agreed, it just looks like a similar bobbin thats it...
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went back and forth the other day about the model g and the bassbucker, the this guy posted a pretty interesting pic of one cracked open, he swears its a x2n with pole peices instead of blades..
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=569920&highlight=bassbuckers (http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=569920&highlight=bassbuckers)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/1ptpjc.jpg)
This is an old thread, but that was referring to a post of mine at TalkBass. I was saying the Model G is an X2N with poles. That photo is of a Model One. It uses the same bobbins, but is wound differently.
I know the G is the same as an X2N because the coils have the same resistance reading as an X2N. However, the X2NB is not wound as hot. I've converted some Model Gs into guitar pickups by adding blades.
You really don't want an overly hot pickup on an bass. As you wind a pickup hotter, you end up with a bandpass response. So you have a big hump in the mids, and the highs and very lows get lost. You also have to think that a bass puts out a lot more signal from the larger strings, and that hot guitar pickups are made extra bassy to give the guitar some balls. Bass already has bass! This is why the vintage T-Bird pickups sound so good. They weren't wound very hot and stayed nice and bright.
I make guitar humbucker size bass pickups. One recent customer replaced an X2NB with one of mine and said:
I've had a couple of rehearsals with the pickup now, and it's a keeper. It is, of course, lower output, so I did have to increase the volume of my amp a bit (went from 2 to 3 on my VBA 400, and per your suggestion adjusted the pickup close to the strings - a lot closer than I had the X2N-B). The tone is WAY better/balanced, so I also adjusted the EQing on the amp. It sustains longer (I always thought pickups had little effect on that, unless they were super low output... live and learn, hehehe...), it's MUCH "clearer" sounding (by that, I mean I can hear the individual notes a lot better now), and as I said previously, has more "girth". All in all, an excellent pickup.
That's not posted as an advertisement, just to point out that some of these guitar pickups masquerading as a bass pickup are not always the best choice tone wise.
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I don't like overly hot guitar pickups either, for the same reasons, it's just a lot more apparent on bass. Think of all the guitarists and bassists who made great music on their standard strength pickups before overwinding to increase output came along.
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Think of all the guitarists and bassists who made great music on their standard strength pickups before overwinding to increase output came along.
I agree 100%
I dislike those Duncan JB pickups as well. They are really dark and muddy when played clean.
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The worst culprits of overwinding are the Epi guitar-sized humbuckers that this thread was discussing replacements for. Deathshead and I got the exact same model bass, a black Epi Les Paul Standard, at around the same time and both of us opted to replace the stock Epi pickups, mainly because they sounded just plain bad. While their output impedance wasn't anything especially high, the sound was always distorted and very nasal. The only useful tones were at extreme volume rolloff, which is impractical. I went with RS's last pair of Bassbuckers, Lindy Fralin's 60's T-Bird tribute in a guitar-sized pickup case. You can read about my experience with them here (http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=3590.0) and here (http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=3775.msg57674#msg57674).
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Yeah, lately I have been getting orders for humbucker sized pickups to replace the Les Paul basses.
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My Hamer B8s came with Dimarzio X2Ns.....I liked 'em for a while
but eventually got tired of the fact that no matter what I did I couldn't
clean up the sound. I replaced them last year with a set of of the Pitbulls
and I have to say it's been quite an improvement. I can still get gritty
when I want or chimey clean. Lots more low end, too.
T