The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Other Bass Brands => Topic started by: Basvarken on August 24, 2013, 12:19:14 PM
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A few weeks ago the very first shortscale semi acoustic bass came in from my Czech friends.
It had no bridge (and so also without strings)
Initially I had planned to install a bridge that I had found on Ebay: a two point wrap-around bridge
(http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/superistore/A3982.jpg)
But when that arrived a few days ago, it appeared to be much too small for this bass. 15 mm string spacing and ridiculously tiny holes to pull the strings through. Perfect for a mandolin, but useless for this bass
So off to Plan B. The trusted three point bridge ;).
I have no problems with those bridges, and it sort of fits with the whole design of the bass anyway.
I had one lying in a drawer, so I went ahead with a ruler and a drilling machine.
So far so good.
But like I already knew; the angle of the body and neck was rather big. I had to raise the bridge very high on the strings posts to make for a normal action. I didn't figure it would be a good idea to have the studs raised that high, so I decided to use taller saddles. I have an old Pearl Bass that has tall saddles. So I tried these. But they wouldn't fit the three point bridge that I had installed. There are obviously differences between the three point bridges that are out there...
So - for the time being - I decided to make my own saddles, just to get the bass up and running.
I had some ebony at home. It is as hard as stone, so I thought that might be a good idea.
In the proces of cutting out the saddles, two snapped before they were done. But after some work I had four decent saddles.
I am going to use nylon for the rest of the series. I is much easier to work with and I happen to like the sound of nylon saddles. Plus it fits the EB2 nicely.
The bass is very comfortable to play. The mahogany neck feels very familiar. The sound of the humbucker is rather different than the sound of the humbucker on the longscale BaCH semi acoustic that I have. The humbucker in this blonde shortie is more focussed and clear. Not muddy.
I have no idea what it is exactly. It has a BaCH logo on the chrome cover. But BaCH does not make their own pickups...
I'll ask them where they found this
Anyway, here's the bridge with ebony saddles:
(https://sphotos-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1236706_381893941939050_1351742692_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/993686_381893325272445_1782856870_n.jpg)
And here's the SAB-1S NA (Semi Acoustic Bass -1 humbucker, short scale - natural) in it's full glory:
(https://sphotos-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1001104_381893908605720_1260590716_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1238027_381893885272389_364116577_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/996922_381893881939056_1753157941_n.jpg)
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WOW Rob, that bass is a beauty, and you made some very nice saddles, very professional. Samples?
When will these basses be available?
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I'm ready to take orders.
I have five three point bridges coming my way as we speak. So I can make a little start.
And I'm working on getting the nylon to make the saddles. Hope to get the material in the course of the week.
I'm really excited that this project is finally coming to life.
I initiated it five years ago, just after I had started the BaCHbird project.
But BaCH kept putting it aside because of several problems they ran into (all bridge related)
And they still haven't solved that. So I took over because I got fed up with the long wait.
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Very nice...
Not on your site yet... price...?
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Can't put it on my site yet. If anyone should buy it off the site now, I'd have to be able to ship it straight away. At the moment I'm not ready to do that yet.
But I guess in two weeks I will...
The price of the SAB-1S-NA will be 385 Euro.
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It's lovely even with the three-point.
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:mrgreen:Me Loves it!
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Looks nice!!
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Beautiful...as are most BaCH basses - I swear I'm going to get one someday.
I have a question regarding the 2-point bridge pictured: Why do the saddles have different orientation? (please don't insert orientation joke here)
Just wondering....
Thanks.
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That's something I asked myself too when I opened the package. I can imagine they took a look at guitar bridges such as the tune-o-matic where often the lower three are reversed.
The only valid reason I can imagine to do this is the gain two or three more millimeters for intonation purposes. The tune-o-matic isn't very wide, nor is this wraparound bridge. Sometimes you need the extra three milimeters to the right side.
I would have loved to use this bridge. I even tried to make new saddles for this one too, and make the notches off center. But the bridge itself isn't wide enough. The saddles would hang over the sides of the bridge.
I can imagine it might work for a Hofner bass with narrow string spacing. You'd still have to drill the holes where the strings are pulled through.
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Looks really good. Will there be a dual-pickup model?
The Tune-a-matic bass bridge with the separate tailpiece may work well with that neck angle. They sit the strings up pretty high. Maybe you can try one on one of the next few basses.
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Looks really good. Will there be a dual-pickup model?
Yes, BaCH has them with a second pickup too. A mini humbucker.
In Antique Red and White.
Both in long scale and in short scale.
The Tune-a-matic bass bridge with the separate tailpiece may work well with that neck angle. They sit the strings up pretty high. Maybe you can try one on one of the next few basses.
A customer of mine in the Netherlands bought one without bridge and he is going to install the (modern) tune-o-matic bridge with seperate tailpiece.
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Sweet bass!
Could you not have Bach set the necks with a couple of degrees less pitch? Has to be a hell of a lot easier than making saddles for every bass you sell.
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Rob, any idea what kind of material Gibson used? We usually say nylon but did they ever specify exactly what it was?
I wonder if UHMW might be a good solution. Very good abrasion resistance, self-lubricating, easy to work, relatively low cost and pretty easy to get in small quantities, at least over here.
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The Tune-a-matic bass bridge with the separate tailpiece may work well with that neck angle.
You can use a Tune-O-matic bridge but you can't tune-a-fish ;D
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Sweet bass!
Could you not have Bach set the necks with a couple of degrees less pitch? Has to be a hell of a lot easier than making saddles for every bass you sell.
If course that would've been much easier.
But this is the reason why this whole project has been dragging it's feet for five years.
They have a series with this angle. And because they couldn't find a bridge, they just put them aside.
In the meanwhile other brands are flooding the market with their semi acoustic basses...
I got fed up with the wait and I decided to just order one and see if I could fix it. I did and it's no problem at all.
Now I can finally start to sell these basses. They're perfect.
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Rob, any idea what kind of material Gibson used? We usually say nylon but did they ever specify exactly what it was?
I wonder if UHMW might be a good solution. Very good abrasion resistance, self-lubricating, easy to work, relatively low cost and pretty easy to get in small quantities, at least over here.
I don't know exactly, but it looks and feels like Nylon PA (Polyamid) to me.
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I don't know exactly, but it looks and feels like Nylon PA (Polyamid) to me.
Polyoxymethylene (Delrin) is cheap, easily obtained and fills all the parameters. I used it a lot for protoyping parts that would eventually be injection molded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene
It's available in flat stock that would require very little work to make saddles. Basically cut, drill and tap. Here's an example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Acetal-Delrin-Plastic-Sheet-1-2-x-4-x-23-White/360716384283?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D261%26meid%3D839117289980229958%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D1088%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D111133080864%26
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Thank you Carlo :)
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Thank you Carlo :)
You're welcome. Consider the best way to produce multiple identical parts.
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It all depends on the numbers.
BaCH did not make a lot of these bass guitars.
For the time being it is going to be the most realistic to drill cut and sand them myself.
An old customer mine has a small CNC machine for prototyping. The initial costs are the only bottle neck. That would be ideal if I should make more saddles in the future.
I am not going to sell hundreds ... ;)
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I have absolutely no idea what this might look like. Totally bummed. ???
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I have absolutely no idea what this might look like. Totally bummed. ???
You can't see Rob's pics? Try these direct links.
https://sphotos-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1001104_381893908605720_1260590716_n.jpg
https://sphotos-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/993686_381893325272445_1782856870_n.jpg
https://sphotos-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1238027_381893885272389_364116577_n.jpg
https://sphotos-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/996922_381893881939056_1753157941_n.jpg
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I have absolutely no idea what this might look like. Totally bummed. ???
Where have they got you sequestered...?
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Took it with me to the rehearsals tonight.
Very dynamic bass guitar!
The lows are impressively deep. You definitely need a good cab with this one.
The highs are much clearer than I would've expected with a Mudbucker.
But if you dial off the treble you get that typical vintage sound.
The guys in the band loved it.
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You can't see Rob's pics? Try these direct links.
https://sphotos-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1001104_381893908605720_1260590716_n.jpg
https://sphotos-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/993686_381893325272445_1782856870_n.jpg
https://sphotos-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1238027_381893885272389_364116577_n.jpg
https://sphotos-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/996922_381893881939056_1753157941_n.jpg
'T'was in jest, Admin!!! I was tonguing in cheek the only fleeting resemblance to an EB 2 ...
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Rob, is this an Artec version of a mudbucker?
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I don't know for sure Dave.
I think it is.
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Any finishes other than natural?
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Yes, they also have them in Antique Red and White.
Edit: here's a group shot
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/526450_292011064260672_1240426910_n.jpg)
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Ooooooo; white. :o
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+1
Smitten but presently otherwise challenged... It was a white EB2 I nearly bought when I stumbled on the PC...
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The Bruce Foxton one?
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That's the one (was it a Rivoli? - it was £200 and the PC was £180). What a shame I had to settle for second best... ;)
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Dang I didn't need to see this...
I had a fake EB-2 for a while, typical 70's Japanese copy thing. Really low quality. It looked just like the one you posted though. What are these constructed like inside? The one I had was totally hollow inside except for a postage-stamp size chunk of plywood holding up the (2-point) bridge. DO the Bach's have a center block, or what? My EB-fake weighed 6 pounds and some and was totally neck heavy. I got to play a real EB, and that felt about 3 times heavier because of the real wood and the bracing inside. Anyway thanks for letting me ramble. What does the 385 Euro translate into $, and what does a case and shipping add to that? Maybe I can donate a lot of plasma before you get your saddles made...
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The BaCH semi acoustic basses have a mahogany center block just like the real real.
They are not neck heavy. Even the longscale isn't!
€ 385 today is $ 507.
BaCH does not have cases for these basses yet.
Shipping is € 180 ($237 today).
I got a plate of Nylon Polyamid. And yesterday I cut the first set of four saddles.
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I cut the Nylon saddles. Bass is now ready to rock. 8)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1266355_388937924567985_2140751887_o.jpg)
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Beautuiful!
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I can't afford to be gassing so hard for this right now. :-\
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You should publish that photo on TalkBass to prompt a string of 30+ people screaming about how having the silks in contact with the saddles kills the tone, muffles the sound, makes large cracks appear in the earth and probably will make fire rain from the skies.
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You should publish that photo on TalkBass to prompt a string of 30+ people screaming about how having the silks in contact with the saddles kills the tone, muffles the sound, makes large cracks appear in the earth and probably will make fire rain from the skies.
Whaaahaaa! :thumbsup:
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You should publish that photo on TalkBass to prompt a string of 30+ people screaming about how having the silks in contact with the saddles kills the tone, muffles the sound, makes large cracks appear in the earth and probably will make fire rain from the skies.
And they know this because they read it on Talkbass!
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You should publish that photo on TalkBass to prompt a string of 30+ people screaming about how having the silks in contact with the saddles kills the tone, muffles the sound, makes large cracks appear in the earth and probably will make fire rain from the skies.
You don't have to go that far, I'll say it right here. It may not be true for that particular set of strings but it is for many if not most, having the string wrap on a saddle is a bad idea.
From a physics/acoustics stand point the best saddle is an unnotched "knife" edge...that's why it's the standard for acoustic instruments. No other bridge I know has that 3 point quirk.
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looks good, Rob. nice job on the saddles.
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And they know this because they read it on Talkbass!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;Dhahahahahahaha
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Anybody here need a kidney? I'm really lovin' that thing.
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I've heard of talk bass... we do it most days... well... sort of... did you see that squirrel...?
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Putting my next build on hold now in favor of one of these!
Would kill for one in classic burst (hint hint)
But that shorty in natural reminds me of someone....
Hmmmm....
(http://dgold.info/images/bands/allen-woody-bass-animation-rock-vhs200x200dg.gif)
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Doesn't having the silks in contact with the saddles kills the tone, muffles the sound, makes large cracks appear in the earth and probably will make fire rain from the skies? I think I read that on Talkbass.
And can it sound like a Fender?
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Love it, btw!!!
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Doesn't having the silks in contact with the saddles kills the tone, muffles the sound, makes large cracks appear in the earth and probably will make fire rain from the skies? I think I read that on Talkbass.
You're keeping bad company on TB, dooooood. ;)
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Doesn't having the silks in contact with the saddles kills the tone, muffles the sound...
Wonder what these guys would think about that?
Victor Wooten, Stu Hamm, Lee Sklar, Alphonso Johnson, John B. Williams, John Patitucci, Dick Lövgren, Andy Irvine, Regi Wooten...Divinity Rocks, Guy Pratt, Stuart Zender, TM Stevens...
Pretty sure none of the instruments they play have silk on the saddles.
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What are you trying to prove Carlo? :bored:
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I will ask them all;)
But very nice bass, Rob!!!
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What are you trying to prove Carlo? :bored:
That I couldn't sell a bass with that crappy a bridge. Or wouldn't.
Sorry that bores you...here's a less than $300 Chinese bass with a better one.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/ME/RondoBass_zpsb8c6b6df.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/ME/RondoBass_zpsb8c6b6df.jpg.html)
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:-*
have a nice day
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The BaCH looks better. :P
Here's a longscale in white.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1239188_397806097014501_2133364789_o.jpg)
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I was always partial to block(ish) fret inlays vs dots, I'll give Carlo that much. ... OK the pinstripe binding is pretty dope too... but the pup is totally in the wrong place :P
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Dangit you guys, you're killin' me here! Stop posting up these EB-2alikes that I now HAVE to have. I can't afford another bass right now!
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The BaCH looks better. :P
Yeah, but it doesn't have that sweet StingRay pup. LOL!
The Bach does look great, and if it's as good as the TH-1, it's a nice bass for the money.
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I'm still torn on these.
I do hate the three point bridge. BUT, the historically correct briddge has even less of a chance of getting the intonation correct.
Seems like a Hipshot 2 point would look killer and fit the bill nicely.
As it stands I have too many irons in the fire (bass wise and family stuff) plus I just got home from having back surgery this past Wed (which makes light weight hollow basses even more tempting).
Anyway, It'll have to wait a bit. hope we get to see some user reports soon though.
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I do hate the three point bridge.
I wouldn't let that stop me. I'm a bridge-hate fiend (die Warwick tailpiece! I despise almost every open-slot string base catch design.), but I've never has an issue with the three-point, including intonation. If I had the money, I'd be all over one of these in a SECOND!
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+1
I'd have had a white (Rivoli) if circumstances had been different in '77, but got saddled with my PC instead...
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My '76 Thunderbird has a very low action with the three point.
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My RD has... well, it had... even lower action being zero height nut and fretless with a three point, but that was chrome and I swopped it with Scott for a nice black one but I've still not fitted it so I guess that does not count so I'm going back in my box now, so there... ;D
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Never understood the 3 point hate myself.
That said, every time I see a bass that isn't new or mine, around here locally, the 3 point is usually set up wrong, so maybe that's part of it. ... still weird cause they ain't that complicated or hard to figure out (vs, say a Fender Jag/stang etc trem which the better local techs totally do well.... a matter of market demand maybe).
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I ordered one for myself.
It arrived last friday afternoon.
And I put it on the bench straight away.
After some serious drilling, filing, grinding, cursing, etc
this is what she looks like with two Gibson Lo-z humbuckers.
(https://scontent-b-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/p480x480/1000225_10202358920799409_2030850052_n.jpg)
Boom! Sounds great.
I have to do some cosmetic repairs, such as filling up the gap at the end of the fretboard where the mudbucker sat.
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Wow!
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Damn; ya beat me to it.
So it works alright with the stock pots or did you bypass/straight to jack after the switch or did you change anything there?
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Very cool! Are they guitar or bass pups?
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Those are bass pickups. With eight wires each.
I took the last coil tap of each pickup.
I still have the stock pots in there. But I have to change them because the impedance value is not correct.
Now the pots work as a sort of an on/off switch, which is good for now. (I'm taking it to rehearsal tonight).
But I'm going to place at least one good CTS potmeter with the correct value and cap.
And maybe I'm going to place a three position rotary switch instead of the volume knob, because I hardly ever use the volume knob.
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Looks like I'm about to let my own low impedance fantasies come alive too..
I've been looking for a project EB body for a pair of NOS les paul guitar lo's, just won an auction now.
The finish seems to be completly faded, and oversprayed with a clearcoat. I have three cherry EB basses now,
always wanted a polaris white one - hope this will be it.
So look out for another lo imp monster :)
Does anybody here know if the pickup rings (guitar size) are hard to find? Are there aftermarket ones made?
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I think Greatdealz1967 (on Ebay) used to have the guitar size chrome mount rings.
If she doesn't have them anymore it going to be a needle in a haystack...
I could trace a guitar sized mount ring for you, if that's of any help.
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I could make you aluminum ones, but otherwise, what Rob said, I'm afraid.
What EB did you get?
Also I am a little perturbed that everyone is getting to this before me.... my fault for sitting on the idea for half a decade and then pretty much giving up on it (finding a good body I can afford) though.
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I think Greatdealz1967 (on Ebay) used to have the guitar size chrome mount rings.
If she doesn't have them anymore it going to be a needle in a haystack...
I could trace a guitar sized mount ring for you, if that's of any help.
Ok, I´ll check around. Haven´t decided on any hardware yet, I have some gold tuners so I might cut out a couple of
brass rings just to see how it turns out. Maybe even try a chinese últimate´bridge with stop bar!
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What EB did you get?
Oh, it was another stripped EB-0. Even the headstock, but inlays were fine. Maybe sanded, clearcoated and worn to pieces again. Listed as a 1963, but it had the big ctr. cavity rout and post 1966 heel, but it was un-broken and un-slotted so I bought it. I´m somewhat short on cash and should stay away from ebay, but I can´t let those low impedance pickups just sit on the shelf, can I?
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No you can't,.... and I know because the geetar ones I had were burning an 'ole in the back of me 'ead until I made that archtop acoustic project I posted about a while back.
Always wondered how the superlight maho EB0/3 bodies would take to the LoZ pups, even though you got a later heftier one.
Anyway, one day I will find a trashed EB2/Rivoli that I can afford. ... or a Bach. I dunno.
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Just shoot me a PM if you want a BaCH.
They have three colors: Antique Red (transparent), Naturel (clearcoat) en White (solid color). Each is available as either long scale or short scale.
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Not in the cards financially - daughter to be born any second now.
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Yep, that sounds like a priority. Congrats!
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Congratulations! Got three of my own. Grown now. Plus one son. Guitarist.
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The semi acoustic BaCHs keep coming in.
Both short scale and long scale.
Here's a short scale next to my own long scale prototype
(https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/p403x403/10320464_505959312865845_1410591998990778485_n.jpg)
And here's a long scale that arrived just a few days ago. It's ready to go to its rightful owner.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/10344794_515703985224711_4791178802152625352_n.jpg)
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Beautiful.
Thanks for the congrats. She's almost 7 months old now... sorry for the delay, but I was avoiding this thread due to GAS pains (yep, still hurts).
Only gear I 've bought recently (and only due to the seller being a dude at work, the nature of the item - I mean come on, right! and a good price) was a lower end (toyish) Yamaha keytar (It is soooo much fun to mess around on). Bought that for my son mostly (3 an'a half) who is always asking to play my guitar/bass, but can't grasp the idea of fret vs strum hands just yet and polytones/chords. The Keytar is way more his speed; had to modify an old strap for him.
(http://grannygremlin.com/images/nonwebpics/jr/LKeytar.jpg)
Anyway, Rob, keep those things comin - I'll be able to afford one of them eventually!
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Beautiful.
Got that Gary Wright thing goin' there Granny
Thanks for the congrats. She's almost 7 months old now... sorry for the delay, but I was avoiding this thread due to GAS pains (yep, still hurts).
Only gear I 've bought recently (and only due to the seller being a dude at work, the nature of the item - I mean come on, right! and a good price) was a lower end (toyish) Yamaha keytar (It is soooo much fun to mess around on). Bought that for my son mostly (3 an'a half) who is always asking to play my guitar/bass, but can't grasp the idea of fret vs strum hands just yet and polytones/chords. The Keytar is way more his speed; had to modify an old strap for him.
(http://grannygremlin.com/images/nonwebpics/jr/LKeytar.jpg)
Anyway, Rob, keep those things comin - I'll be able to afford one of them eventually!