Gibson vs. Dean update

[Dave W]

Ruh-roh.

Dean found in civil contempt for failing to comply with Gibson trademark ruling

[uwe]

If I were Dean, I'd find it real hard to give up on the V too, it has so much become a part of their image.

[morrow]

Nobody would mistake a Dean V for a Gibson.

Now if Gibson had zealously targeted the infringers the way John Hall did it never would have come to this.

[uwe]

"Nobody would mistake a Dean V for a Gibson."


On the contrary, everyone would, except those interested in the Dean and Gibson brands or Michael Schenker for that matter plus Flying V aficionados of course.  You grab someone from the street and ask him/her if the gentlemen below all play different styles of guitars. (There are only three Gibsons among them, namely Kirk H, Rudolf S and Richie F - Faulkner, not Furay!)

[morrow]

I was thinking of the people who might be buying those instruments , not your basic pedestrian.
But I suppose that there are many buyers that have no concept of the manufacturer’s traditions or legacy.
Sometimes I forget that I’ve been drooling over instruments in music stores since the mid 60’s.

[uwe]

I don't know what the test of the courts is - probably the reasonably informed pedestrian  who hasn't reached nerd stage yet. Nerds are never fooled.

[morrow]

“Gibson reportedly must now show the court the financial impact of Armadillo’s non-compliance.“
This could be interesting. I’d think that many Dean buyers are longtime dedicated users that have little interest in a Gibson branded V.
Just as many dedicated Gibson buyers continue to buy and support their brand through simple loyalty.

Gibson had completely abandoned the V and Explorer shapes when Dean first appropriated them. I suppose it might be argued that Dean created the market for the first Gibson reissues.

[slinkp]

How do all the strat-like guitars exist?

Sure, there are minor differences - to me, akin to the visual differences between a Gibson flying V and a Dean V ....
but in my eyes, a PRS Silver Sky or a Suhr Classic S just read as "It's a strat"

Same for innumerable teles, P-basses, J-basses...

Seems like Fender has as much ground as Gibson to go after those, if they are so inclined.

[uwe]

I'm with Dean here too (they're a hair metal guitar brand, but they stuck to their guns, that has my respect, I even have two Dean basses, V shapes of course ...), but of course the Flying V in its Ted McCarty design is the most eye-catching, original, radical and idiosyncratic look of an electric guitar ever produced in substantial numbers. Yes, it's a Gibson design, no doubt. But Gibson sat on their asses for years and decades watching Dean become a competitor in the niche of metal audience instruments and now want to disrupt their business. That irks me. Cheap shot.

IIRC, there were phases when Gibson lapsed production of the Flying V in the 60ies, but ever since the 70ies they have always produced Flying V guitars in one shape or form. I guess Hendrix playing one had a lot to do with that. And come the 70ies, it of course became the signature guitar of the heavy brigade (ironically, because it is not such a fat sounding guitar and allows for a tidier sonic picture even with harder rock) - no guitar cries "R A W K !!!"   like a Flying V though other musicians have always used it too.

Yet much as I like Neil Young ...



it's not quite the same as our blond stromtrooper, nein?

[morrow]

I always find it funny that Ibanez made a Flying V bass long before Gibson did.

Now I’m not a rock guy at all , but I couldn’t resist picking up an Epi V bass when a friend had one for sale. And I love the trashy little thing. They just announced a Korina run of guitars , but no basses.

[Pilgrim]

I honestly would usually not see any difference between a Gibson and Dean V.  I have never played one, and I wouldn't really know there was a difference without the discussion here.

Consider that the audience (presumably) knows less than I do, and I think the two are readily confused.

[uwe]

I always find it funny that Ibanez made a Flying V bass long before Gibson did.

Yup, I have that too. It doesn't really sound any better than any other Far East mid-price knock-off from the times, but it's a sight to behold. And it's long scale - unlike all Gibson Flying V basses so far.

[Dave W]

I don't know what the test of the courts is - probably the reasonably informed pedestrian  who hasn't reached nerd stage yet. Nerds are never fooled.

Likelihood of confusion is the standard. Doesn't have to be an informed buyer.

How do all the strat-like guitars exist?

Sure, there are minor differences - to me, akin to the visual differences between a Gibson flying V and a Dean V ....
but in my eyes, a PRS Silver Sky or a Suhr Classic S just read as "It's a strat"

Same for innumerable teles, P-basses, J-basses...

Seems like Fender has as much ground as Gibson to go after those, if they are so inclined.

No, Fender definitely doesn't. They tried and lost.

Product shapes weren't protected under trademark law until a 1988 revision of the law (a few had been issued earlier, like the Coca-Cola bottle shape). Gibson and Rickenbacker moved to register their most common shapes over the next years. Fender only registered their headstock shapes. Why? Probably b/c there were already so many Fender clones out there.

Then, in 2004, under new management, they registered Strat, Tele and Precision body shapes. A group of 20 smaller builders filed opposition, and after several years of filings and hearings, their registrations were cancelled. Their shapes were ruled to be generic.

[morrow]

I always find it funny that Ibanez made a Flying V bass long before Gibson did.

Yup, I have that too. It doesn't really sound any better than any other Far East mid-price knock-off from the times, but it's a sight to behold. And it's long scale - unlike all Gibson Flying V basses so far.

I recently picked up a UniVox Mosrite copy , a HiFlier. And it’s a lot better than I originally expected , aside from one slippy tuner. It sounds really good. But I suppose I’m guilty of playing cheap basses through really nice amps.

[morrow]

The early Japanese imports were influenced by the then current designs but not copies. And many had that wonderful early Italian influence , knobs and switches , and were as cheesy as cheesy could be.
A mix of space age retro futurism and rubber lizard movies.
I loved the period when Teisco and the rest made wonderfully unique looking cheap guitars. There’s some modern builders that embrace that aesthetic.

Unfortunately their work is rarely cheap.