Gibson at NAMM 2019

[Granny Gremlin]

I've done it.  Prefer it when it's a bit more subtle than that ES Rob posted, that one looks cool, but I think I would get tired of it.

I think from what I have seen (in store with the geetar DC Tribute and others), that Gibson may be doing just that (subtle version of doghair) - no real extra cost just requires a bit of a tint in the grain filler.  What sets it apart from a proper dog hair is using black or dark tint vs white like that ES. 

[Basvarken]

As you know Chris is at the NAMM at the moment.
Today he spoke to the new Gibson CEO James Curleigh.
He told Chris that Gibson will introduce a new American made Epiphone series. There's already one prototype guitar at the NAMM. There will be two bass guitars from this American series: a Rivoli and a solid body (not determined yet). They'll most likely be announced at summer NAMM 2019.

[Granny Gremlin]

RIVOLI!

[westen44]

Wow, this is amazing.  When you talk about Gibson EB-2/Epi Rivoli, you're talking about some of my favorite bass tones ever.  This is the kind of stuff that truly interests me.  I wish things like this could have happened long ago.  But better late than never. 

[4stringer77]

I wonder why it's necessary to have an American made Epiphone? Why not continue to brand these models Gibson? It can't possibly be for the same reason it was done in the sixties so why start doing it again?

[Dave W]

As you know Chris is at the NAMM at the moment.
Today he spoke to the new Gibson CEO James Curleigh.
He told Chris that Gibson will introduce a new American made Epiphone series. There's already one prototype guitar at the NAMM. There will be two bass guitars from this American series: a Rivoli and a solid body (not determined yet). They'll most likely be announced at summer NAMM 2019.

That's great news and it's in line with what he said in one of the videos about Gibson and Epi being one company now.

I wonder why it's necessary to have an American made Epiphone? Why not continue to brand these models Gibson? It can't possibly be for the same reason it was done in the sixties so why start doing it again?

The only reason it was done back then was to put Kalamazoo-made guitars in non-Gibson dealerships without stepping on the territories of Gibson dealers. Could be a similar reason now, since there are local dealers who carry Epi but not Gibson. Besides, who needs a reason?

[Granny Gremlin]

I wonder why it's necessary to have an American made Epiphone? Why not continue to brand these models Gibson? It can't possibly be for the same reason it was done in the sixties so why start doing it again?

Because a Gibson EB2 would have to cost twice to trice as much to maintain brand image and therefore probably wouldn't sell very well.  Yes there's the Tributes, but a hollowbody costs more to make.  They can make it work with volume easier than with high price but little sales.

E.G.  (CA$) a Gibson ES-335 is 3k and an Epi Dot is <600.  They can see they're selling a shit tonne of Dots.  The proper Gibby ES is profitable to, but this way they can diversify their strategy and use the Epi line to get production economies of scale to benefit the Gibson line.

Also, there is a case to be made that there is a bigger nosatalgia factor with the Rivoli than the EB2 (British invasion  - those fans are Gibson/Epiphone's main customer base; then the post punk era with the reissues were popular).

Anyway, gotta start saving up.

Who knows - the new management seems to be more reasonable and customer/market feedback oriented than I-know-best Henry J; if the Rivoli does well I bet they will do an EB2 (but it will cost 5k).  Probably an EB2D to help differentiate it, though lord knows what pups they'd use.

[4stringer77]

If the instruments are made in the states, it will negate the biggest factor for why Epiphones can be made for less money. I'd think quality might be compromised if they tried to cut costs some other way in order to achieve that same Epi price advantage.

[Granny Gremlin]

Yeah, those are fair points and concerns.  But let's just imagine for a second that actual Gibsons don't cost that much more to make (some, mostly the labour vs Asia), and the price difference is not proportional to that but rather all about marketing  and positioning (hype as well as promotional costs - Gibson has a high marketting budget, Epiphone doesn't, but don't need to, they feed off Gibson that way).

Like I expect cheaper wood and hardware, but I'm not worried.

[godofthunder]

     The birds are Gibson and sport a chrome three point and chrome tuners. Could they do any less? With a  MAP of nearly $2,300 I expect more. Any new birds I buy will be Epiphone Vintage Pros. My apologies for being so negative but I have pretty much washed my hands of Gibson.

[Basvarken]

https://youtu.be/ZpXnb5IwKQQ?t=19m23s

So, a bass for guitar players?! Come on Gibson, don't screw up already.

[slinkp]

How much does the new Management have to do with the models at NAMM anyway? It's only been what, three months?

[Granny Gremlin]

     The birds are Gibson and sport a chrome three point and chrome tuners. Could they do any less? With a  MAP of nearly $2,300 I expect more. Any new birds I buy will be Epiphone Vintage Pros. My apologies for being so negative but I have pretty much washed my hands of Gibson.

The Thunderbirds have it, but I was surprised that the Firebird doesn't have the headstock edge routing. 

What would you be looking for feature-wise?  It's gonna be hard to beat the Vintage Pro - the Gibson one will have to be the modern one cuz they ain't doing 2 model variants for bass players.  Nuff flavours of LP though, holy.

[westen44]

https://youtu.be/ZpXnb5IwKQQ?t=19m23s

So, a bass for guitar players?! Come on Gibson, don't screw up already.

It's just my impression, but both online and in real life guitarists who want to play some bass for whatever reason do seem to gravitate toward short scale.  Whereas many bassists are probably going to feel equally at ease with short scale or long scale.  Once again, those are just my personal observations.  If you're a company selling basses, you might be just as glad to get money from a guitarist dabbling in bass as from an actual bassist buying a bass.  This doesn't mean, of course, that input from bassists shouldn't be taken seriously.  Otherwise, things will never be the way they really should be. 

[Dave W]

     The birds are Gibson and sport a chrome three point and chrome tuners. Could they do any less? With a  MAP of nearly $2,300 I expect more. Any new birds I buy will be Epiphone Vintage Pros. My apologies for being so negative but I have pretty much washed my hands of Gibson.

That's your privilege, of course. Keep in mind that Rickenbacker is the only place you can get a neck through bass for less, and that's been the whole company's bread and butter model for almost 60 years, not even counting the 600 series guitars. They're set up for it, while it's still an odd item for Gibson. I'm not making excuses for the price, since I don't know all the cost factors, but it's not out of line for a US-made neck through.