The Last Bass Outpost

Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: TBird1958 on December 07, 2021, 12:49:09 PM

Title: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: TBird1958 on December 07, 2021, 12:49:09 PM: The Gene Bird is out!

https://www.americanmusical.com/gibson-gene-simmons-g2-thunderbird-bass/p/GIB-BAT4GSM00-EBB
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: uwe on December 07, 2021, 01:09:39 PM: My, he's really rethought the TBird from scratch and the end result is competitively priced for aspiring beginners and rank-and-file Kiss fans. What's not to like?

Same-same pups as before, specifications don't say if it's neck-thru or not and he's finally gotten rid of the maho/walnut nine-ply-neck, that was always a real downer for me. Straight-thru maho is value-enhancing.

Diamond inlays and mirror plex pick guard (real ~~thumb prints~~ thumbs up for that!) do of course influence sound. A "master tone control", turn once, affect the sound of two (2!) pups all in one go, how nifty, why has no one before come up with this?! It's small things like that which show the thoughtful input of a seasoned player with decades of experience. Thanks for sharing with us, Gene.

Now for the (mild) criticism: Will it be available with chrome hardware too? And a 60ies bridge? Can you play Lick It Up with it (once you've worked out the bass part)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcj34XixuYg
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: Ken on December 07, 2021, 02:56:34 PM: Quote from: uwe on December 07, 2021, 01:09:39 PM
My, he's really rethought the TBird from scratch and the end result is competitively priced for aspiring beginners and rank-and-file Kiss fans. What's not to like?

Same-same pups as before, specifications don't say if it's neck-thru or not and he's finally gotten rid of the maho/walnut nine-ply-neck, that was always a real downer for me. Straight-thru maho is value-enhancing.

Diamond inlays and mirror plex do of course influence sound. A "master tone control", turn once, affect the sound of two (2!) pups all in one go, how nifty, why has no one before ever thought of this?! It's small things like that which show the thoughtful input of a seasoned player with decades of experience. Thanks for sharing with us, Gene.

Now for the criticism: Will it be available with chrome hardware too? And a 60ies bridge?

Don't worry. It probably comes with a Kiss lunchbox.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: uwe on December 07, 2021, 02:59:35 PM: The somber looks belie how much work Gene put into this.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: uwe on December 07, 2021, 07:22:42 PM: I sound tough on this, I know. I'm generally not a Gene Simmons basher, quite on the contrary, the man is a fine bass player, I prefer his voice to Paul Stanley's affected falsetto and Gene would make a great dinner guest to top it off. I also own a Punisher and it's a fine bass, I can understand where he was coming from with it. I even bought the outrageously priced 45th Anniversary Destroyer boxed set, adding it to the umpteen versions of Destroyer that I already own, I mean every household needs a Bluray Dolby Atmos remix of God of Thunder and the acoustic version of Beth!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LE6ON9ROzE

But what ole Chaim has done here (has he done anything other than given his name and played a prototype on stage?), confounds me.

- It's way too expensive to be an entry level bass for a kid that wants to have something Gene Simmons has.

- Gene has been playing an active bass on stage for the last 30 years at least (the Punisher and all his modern type Axes too), who is going to believe that he will now switch to a passive one in the middle of a set? If this TB had EMGs or whatever stuck into it, some people would cry heresy, but it would at least make sense from his preferences/point of view. A Bat(tery)Bird would at least be something new from Gibson.

- Gene always mouths off how a bass needs to be stable if he raises both arms in the air, I'd like to see him do that with this apparently unchanged-in-shape-and-center-of-gravity TBird.

- Same thing with high register access, Gene always says how that is important to him for his slides, the Punisher is 24 fret and has probably the best high register access I've seen on any double octave bass, but the Genebird is as high register play-thwarting as any Rev Bird (unless our favorite Rochester woodsman has gotten out the chainsaw again, but let's not dwell on that here ...).

(https://www.pngkit.com/png/full/128-1284381_image-royalty-free-download-chain-saw-cawiki-fandom.png)

So what the hotter-than-hell was his input? Even the Hipshot bridge has been featured on TBirds before, albeit for only a year. In comparison, the two different Nikki Sixxnature Birds where creative individual takes.

Hopefully, the also announced Flying V will be something more to write home about. This is for shoutin'-out-loud a disappointment, ain't worth a deuce.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: Ken on December 07, 2021, 09:39:44 PM: Wait, are you saying this is a money grab? :mrgreen:

What other Thunderbird has had a Hipshot bridge? I've only seen Babicz.

UWE's CONFESSION EDIT: Darn, you're right, I got them mixed up. So at least that is new. I've mounted a Hipshot on my Blackbird just to see what it is like and have kept it on there. It kinda fitted with the look.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: Dave W on December 08, 2021, 12:07:53 AM: I'll rush out to buy one, just as soon as hell freezes over.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: uwe on December 08, 2021, 04:31:38 AM: Quote from: Dave W on December 08, 2021, 12:07:53 AM
I'll rush out to buy one, just as soon as hell freezes over.

Voilà! 8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enJiLuH9YUA
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: 4stringer77 on December 08, 2021, 07:24:37 AM: A reissue wine red Grabber would have been much cooler and probably more desirable to most.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: Basvarken on December 08, 2021, 08:09:48 AM: I like it.
Except the pickguard and price tag.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: gearHed289 on December 08, 2021, 09:20:31 AM: Quote from: uwe on December 07, 2021, 07:22:42 PM
I prefer his voice to Paul Stanley's affected falsetto

I heard World Without Heroes the other night, and that is possibly his best vocal ever.

Quote from: uwe on December 07, 2021, 07:22:42 PM
I even bought the outrageously priced 45th Anniversary Destroyer boxed set, adding it to the umpteen versions of Destroyer that I already own, I mean every household needs a Bluray Dolby Atmos remix of God of Thunder and the acoustic version of Beth!

Destroyer Resurrected is the only one you need!

Quote from: uwe on December 07, 2021, 07:22:42 PM
- It's way too expensive to be an entry level bass for a kid that wants to have something Gene Simmons has.

The only "kids" that want what Gene has are at least 45 years old. ;D

Quote from: uwe on December 07, 2021, 07:22:42 PM
- Gene has been playing an active bass on stage for the last 30 years at least (the Punisher and all his modern type Axes too), who is going to believe that he will now switch to a passive one in the middle of a set? If this TB had EMGs or whatever stuck into it, some people would cry heresy, but it would at least make sense from his preferences/point of view. A Bat(tery)Bird would at least be something new from Gibson.

Very good point.

Quote from: uwe on December 07, 2021, 07:22:42 PM
- Gene always mouths off how a bass needs to be stable if he raises both arms in the air, I'd like to see him do that with this apparently unchanged-in-shape-and-center-of-gravity TBird.

Yeah, I was wondering about that from the beginning. :rolleyes:

Quote from: uwe on December 07, 2021, 07:22:42 PM
Hopefully, the also announced Flying V will be something more to write home about.

I wouldn't hold my breath...
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: TBird1958 on December 08, 2021, 09:21:24 AM: Quote from: uwe on December 08, 2021, 04:31:38 AM
Voilà! 8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enJiLuH9YUA

Bad Beatles movies outtakes and equally appalling dentistry = typical U.K. band ;D

Here it's proper with Frankie Poulain and a Thunderbird.

https://youtu.be/DBfmX1xvNVQ
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: doombass on December 08, 2021, 01:32:18 PM: I like it except that it is a Gene Simmons model he'll never play like stated above. Considering the wide design fantasies Gibson have had in different versions of their guitars it is sad that they need Gene Simmons to be able to get a version of the T'bird with bound body on the market. They've had versions of just about every other guitar model out with that feature. I'd expect Gibson to wait for the sales figures on that T'bird before they even think about releasing the V-bass.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: uwe on December 08, 2021, 05:00:06 PM: Quote from: TBird1958 on December 08, 2021, 09:21:24 AM

Bad Beatles movies outtakes and equally appalling dentistry = typical U.K. band ;D

Here it's proper with Frankie Poulain and a Thunderbird.

https://youtu.be/DBfmX1xvNVQ

You're absolutely right, Mark, Frankie Poullain is unequalled (the other guy was actually his P-Bass wielding bass-tech who stepped in for him when he left after the first album only to return with their reunion a few years later). Live The Darkness are - and especially him and double-especially how he introduces that song lengthily on stage with just himself and the cowbell - an epochal riot. I saw them pre-pandemic and it had been ages since I had enjoyed as good a time at a hard rock concert.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: Granny Gremlin on December 09, 2021, 07:32:11 PM: Ah Uwe, the fangirl we all wish we had.

I swear it's not the Gene/KISS association, but that new Sig Bird does nothing for me. A non-neck-thru reverse is just wrong (unless it says 'studio' on it and is half that price). Add to that the pickguard logo, black hardware, and pickups that aren't interesting to me and it's a solid "m'eh." The binding is cool I guess, but I'd rather have the body wood there vs plastic. To me, binding should mostly be left to guitars with a top/side or top/body seam that needs to be hidden - LPs and hollowbodies. And plain cream binding is the worst (I hate trad LPs with cream hardware - looks cheap, but costs 6k) - at least patterned binding (pinstripe/double pinstripe like my D'Angelico or checkerboard like a Ric - not as if that actually costs more to make).
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: ilan on December 10, 2021, 10:53:00 AM: Quote from: Basvarken on December 08, 2021, 08:09:48 AM
I like it.
Except the pickguard and price tag.

Me too.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: uwe on December 10, 2021, 11:32:59 AM: It's plain boring und uncreative, that's what it is. Going bind, alright.

If it's actually only set neck, then it is a real rip-off. A set neck Rev? Welcome to Orville- or Greco-land! In that case they should have better made a 1.000 bucks affordable Epi out of it.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: Granny Gremlin on December 10, 2021, 12:21:43 PM: Yeah you can see the neck joint in the rear pic in the link in the OP. Also no raised middle - another dead giveaway.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: uwe on December 10, 2021, 03:36:44 PM: You're right, there is no center block. I first thought there was one in the larger pics, but it is just the shadow of the G-string.

That's laughable then. It's a TBird Studio (a fine bass, but neither soundwise nor feelwise a true TBird) with binding and SG-Z inlays, costing almost three times as much.

I can't believe he gave up on the neck-thru-construction - all his Punishers through the ages had that. He used to boast about their neck-thru construction and how worthy it made them.

A TBird that isn't a TBird with nothing to it that Gene generally considers vital with a bass. It can't even spit fire or drool blood, no bat wings either. Back to the drawing board, Gene!

(https://societyofrock.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/gene-simmons-eulogy.jpg)
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: Basvarken on December 10, 2021, 03:54:24 PM: The fact that it doesn’t have a raised middle section is no proof of it not being a neck through…
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: Granny Gremlin on December 10, 2021, 05:51:33 PM: Technically true (I mean it can be done) but Gibson has never done that, and I don't think they ever will (on a TBird.... though for someone of Gene's stature, they might consider it). At the very least it is a good reason to be skeptical and look further, a 'tell' if you will.

Anyway, that's not the proof - did you look at the rear pic where you can see the neck joint?

(http://grannygremlin.com/images/GeneSigNeckJoint.jpg)

Gene's name will sell a few, but for everyone else 3k is too much without the neck through.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: uwe on December 10, 2021, 09:22:59 PM: Quote from: Basvarken on December 10, 2021, 03:54:24 PM
The fact that it doesn’t have a raised middle section is no proof of it not being a neck through…

The whole charm of the Reverse centerblock construction is the wedged in wings. Ray Dietrich invented the Steinberger bass, but thought it too ugly and gave it wings! :mrgreen:

A set neck Reverse is like a bolt-on Ric 4001/4003 shape. Self-defeating.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: Basvarken on December 11, 2021, 02:38:00 AM: Quote from: Granny Gremlin on December 10, 2021, 05:51:33 PM

Anyway, that's not the proof - did you look at the rear pic where you can see the neck joint?

That makes it very likely it is indeed a set neck.

Not 100% certain though.
I built a bass which is nine ply neck through. And I gave it a step heel just for aesthetetic reasons ;-)
(https://www.enkoo.nl/uploads/1/3/3/7/13376708/brooks-eb-tb-back1500_orig.jpg)
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: godofthunder on December 11, 2021, 04:20:46 AM: I think a Overend Watts signature would be warmly received. ;D
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: morrow on December 11, 2021, 05:59:25 AM: That is one interesting little rig , Rob ! 34 in scale ? Could you post a pic of the front ?
The only neck through basses I was familiar with were Rics , and then a set necked 4000 came my way and I decided they were nice too . Maybe a set necked bird will still have some charm . I’m not likely to see one .
I never “got” Kiss , and when I think of Gene the term “arsehole” comes to mind .
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: Basvarken on December 11, 2021, 06:26:40 AM: (https://www.enkoo.nl/uploads/1/3/3/7/13376708/brooks-eb-tb-full3-1500_orig.jpg)

Yes, it’s 34” scale. A hybrid between a Thunderbird and an EB-0. Mahogany neck through with walnut strips. Mahogany wings. EY guitars sixties repro humbucker.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: Stjofön Big on December 11, 2021, 07:41:24 AM: That T-bird/Eb0 of yours, is soooo fantastic beautiful! A piece I would buy if I was 20 years younger. For now I'm satisfied with my red Lotus with neck-through body, that for the un-trained eye looks a lot like an Eb0. I changed pickup to a T-bird pup, bridge to a Badass, and tuners to... I don't know for sure whether it's Grover or Schaller. The sound is what it should be, when T-bird pup's around.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: morrow on December 11, 2021, 08:10:11 AM: I’m more of a short scale fan now ,but that’s gorgeous !
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: Granny Gremlin on December 11, 2021, 08:21:55 AM: Quote from: Basvarken on December 11, 2021, 02:38:00 AM
That makes it very likely it is indeed a set neck.

Not 100% certain though.
I built a bass which is nine ply neck through. And I gave it a step heel just for aesthetetic reasons ;-)
(https://www.enkoo.nl/uploads/1/3/3/7/13376708/brooks-eb-tb-back1500_orig.jpg)

So just because you did a silly thing that Gibson has (and IMHO never would have) done this is an uncertainty?

Additionally, I think you would be in the minority re the neck heel step being aesthetically better. Il ove your bass - it is beautiful, but I never understood why you did that one thing - the only thing that occurs to me is being accurate with the doublecut EB) shape, while adding the TBVird neck thru (which to me seemed like flawed logic/not a good reason - we can disagree on this), but you realise that totally does not apply to the G2 bass situation right? Why would they do that? The answer is that they wouldn't. They never have and there is no reason for them to even think of that like ythere is in your case - a false comparison, but yes, a proof of concept that it can be done.

Anyway, you have to separate what is possible, from the facts of Gibson modus operandi. They have never done these things, and for a company so steeped in and always marketing themselves based on "tradition" that cannot be easily rationalised away or disregarded.

Another thing that would imply set neck is the neck being just mahogany, (sure I'm not certain we can trust the dubious-looking specs list 100% but assuming they got that right at least, because it would be a selling point - the 9 ply costs more).

Basically at this point, you need to show us where it says it IS a neck thrrough, because all indicators suggest otherwise and despite your not-wrong claims of it being technically possible, the probability is not in your favour by a wide margin. It is a shame the product specs are completely silent on this point. I suspect that might be intentional (also "[Neck] Profile: Rounded" is ROFL).
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: Basvarken on December 11, 2021, 08:33:10 AM: Like I said, it probably is set neck. And the step heel makes that indeed the most likely.
Nobody ever said it has to be nine ply by the way. So full mahogany (three piece) is the most likely.
But with Gibson you never know :mrgreen:

About the step heel on my EB-TB build; I prefer to see the curve from horn to horn in one continuous line. If it didn't have the step, the heel would look like a big wart (to me at least it would). 8)
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: uwe on December 12, 2021, 03:47:28 PM: I think we can rest assured that if the Genebird was neck-thru, they would have mentioned it in the specs (you don't forget something value-enhancing like that) AND made it clearer via the design that it is. They simply didn't care enough for the TBird Rev heritage to deem it a crucial ingredient.

PS: Your long scale Junior is lovely, Rob!
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: Granny Gremlin on December 13, 2021, 09:31:18 AM: Your Jr is a beauty and I understand why you did that. I just find it so remotely unlikely that Gibson would do that when the reasons you did so do not apply to the G2 at all, that it's triggered argument mode.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: uwe on December 15, 2021, 05:44:52 AM: Actually, it's more Gibson's fault than Gene's. Nobody expects him to sit down and give thought by his own to the idea how to improve a TBird or align it more with his personal tastes. What they should have done (and looking at the result most likely did not do), was to simply ask him questions:

- What kind of woods do you prefer? TBirds are traditionally maho, but we have inter alia the option to use a different wood for the body wings.

- Shall we juggle with the center of gravity or the placement of the strap buttons so it balances more to your liking?

- Shall we equip it with active pups or an active circuit?

- What neck structure do you want? Neck-thru like your Punishers, bolt-on like the Grabber you preferred for a long time in the 70ies or set neck like your Ripper?

- Hipshot D-tuner?

- You're a tall guy, shall we extend the neck to make it double octave or turn it medium scale (you've played smaller scales in the past) so the nut doesn't reach out too far? Bevel the cutaway for better high register access?

It coudn't have been so hard to come up with some ideas for Gene to reflect upon! The man has been around long enough for Gibson to (at least get to) know what his preferences with basses are. What you get when actually closely cooperating with a name musician for a signature model is shown by the enduring production lifespan and popularity of the Epiphone Jack Casady Signature which in a few weeks will see its 25th production year! And I wager to guess that quite a few more people have heard of Gene Simmons rather than of Jack Casady. What a mess. They weren't even creative enough to do the obvious and name the bass GoTBird, i.e. God of Thunderbird! :mrgreen:
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: Dave W on December 15, 2021, 09:07:11 PM: Quote from: uwe on December 15, 2021, 05:44:52 AM
Actually, it's more Gibson's fault than Gene's. Nobody expects him to sit down and give thought by his own to the idea how to improve a TBird or align it more with his personal tastes. What they should have done (and looking at the result most likely did not do), was to simply ask him questions:

- What kind of woods do you prefer? TBirds are traditionally maho, but we have inter alia the option to use a different wood for the body wings.

- Shall we juggle with the center of gravity or the placement of the strap buttons so it balances more to your liking?

- Shall we equip it with active pups or an active circuit?

- What neck structure do you want? Neck-thru like your Punishers, bolt-on like the Grabber you preferred for a long time in the 70ies or set neck like your Ripper?

- Hipshot D-tuner?

- You're a tall guy, shall we extend the neck to make it double octave or turn it medium scale (you've played smaller scales in the past) so the nut doesn't reach out too far? Bevel the cutaway for better high register access?

It coudn't have been so hard to come up with some ideas for Gene to reflect upon! The man has been around long enough for Gibson to (at least get to) know what his preferences with basses are. What you get when actually closely cooperating with a name musician for a signature model is shown by the enduring production lifespan and popularity of the Epiphone Jack Casady Signature which in a few weeks will see its 25th production year! And I wager to guess that quite a few more people have heard of Gene Simmons rather than of Jack Casady. What a mess. They weren't even creative enough to do the obvious and name the bass GoTBird, i.e. God of Thunderbird! :mrgreen:

That would make sense, but that's not the way Gibson usually does things, and if they did, they still would do what they want in the long run.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: D.M.N. on December 17, 2021, 09:55:26 AM: Don't think it is out quite yet, looks like the page has been taken down.
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: uwe on December 17, 2021, 11:39:17 AM: They're taken it back to the drawing board, it nöw rests in ze säme krypt as ze Continental V !!! :rimshot:
Title: Re: The new Gene Bird is out!
Post by: TBird1958 on December 17, 2021, 11:50:30 AM: Quote from: uwe on December 17, 2021, 11:39:17 AM
They're taken it back to the drawing board, it nöw rests in ze säme krypt as ze Continental V !!! :rimshot:

I've noticed they've stopped with the "Mod Shop" releases as well a shame there, as some cool stuff came out. FWIW I don't mind a Thunderbird based on the "Studio" model, mine is great sounding bass the TB Plus pickups sound quite nice when used with set neck construction, much as I wish they were chrome covered I'd never change them out on this bass.