The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: veebass on October 12, 2014, 04:28:20 PM
-
I am the same veebass as on TB AND Ozbass, so some of you might know me already.
This is my first post here, although I have been lurking for a while, good info here. I love of basses, including Gibson basses.
I live in Queensland, am over 50, married with a son. I have been playing bass in pub rock bands in Australia since the mid 70s, for the last 5 years have been doing the covers thing and my son plays lead in the band- he is also a pretty good bass player. I have a number of basses, including some old Gibsons- RDs, Victorys, a Ripper etc. If people are interested I will post some pics.
It is the Ripper that I need some advice with. I sought advice on TB and some of the good folk there suggested I post the question here.
I have an issue with my 74 Ripper- nothing out of the neck pickup- not even when the poles are tapped with a screwdriver. Also nothing at all on positions 1 and 4 of the varitone. (The wiring is standard, as far as I know). I have checked under the guard visually and the all wires are now attached (one was off the varitone- the one to the vol pot- but I have now resoldered it). The problem remains after resoldering that lead. I am fairly electronics illiterate but can use a multimeter and can solder, so be gentle with me. (I have replaced pickups, pots and inputs in Fenders but there is a fair bit happening under the hood of the Ripper!)
Is there a simple way I can electronically test the pickup in the bass without disconnecting it? I have a multimeter.
How do I test whether the varitone is the problem?
If I need a replacement pickup, what is the opinion on the Seymour Duncan Ripper replacement?
Thanks.
-
Howdy and welcome... (another Oztralian... two in a day...! Dave...! :mrgreen:)
You might need to desolder one side of the pup's wire to be sure but does it have any resistance value at all - I checked the schematic at Jule's site and the number 2 position should disconnect the pup so you can get a resistance value - should be a low value but not open circuit (no reading at all) or dead short (zero ohms)...
The rule re instruments is simple here... pics or she don't exist... my RD is a legend here, in her own shed-time... :mrgreen:
Kenny
-
Hey Kenny,
Thanks for that, I'll give that a go.
Here is my 74 (as best I can tell) Ripper. The guard is an original but from a later Ripper.
(http://i50.tinypic.com/35l6x34.jpg)
I'll dig up some pics of my other Gibsons, plus my old V, which I think of as an honorary Gibson. :)
-
Since you asked- here they are.
78 RD Standard- All original.
(http://i45.tinypic.com/e0quio.jpg)
79 RD Artist- All original, incl the Moog
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2rnhmow.jpg)
09 Bird- Stock
(http://i47.tinypic.com/24bm461.jpg)
81 Victory Standard- all original
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2z74fae.jpg)
81 Victory Artist- all original
(http://i48.tinypic.com/5mqea.jpg)
75 approx- Ibanez V- had her since 77.
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2ithkkj.jpg)
Just sold this early Maple Grabber.
(http://i50.tinypic.com/wml5za.jpg)
-
Welcome!
Wow, those are beautiful basses!
I just went through months long hell with my '73 Ripper. The original pickups registered decent output when they weren't IN the bass. Once in, they sounded like half dead kittens. The original 4 way switch was dead in one of the positions and was difficult to operate (knob wouldn't turn easily). Found an aftermarket replacement but my luthier spent along time trying to get it right but it refused. Finally I found a nice original and in she went. We changed position 4 so now I can used each pickup separately if I want. Sounds great!
-
Welcome Veebass!! Nice collection you have!!!
-
For those playing at home, that Ripper was ex-Steve Barr, via me ....
(http://deayton.com/photos/duderipper.jpg)
-
Hi Mark,
Indeed it is. Been the custodian of that lovely bass for a few years now.
Absolutely beautiful neck.
Just gotta get that neck pickup issue fixed.
-
Great to see you here Veebass!
The Gibsons all look great!
-
Thanks for the great welcome.
I thought I would try and some advice from people who appreciate the finer things. :)
-
My RD Artist (exact same spec as yours) has had everything junked bar the neck pup and a volume pot, and she's fretless... presently significantly stalled rebuild...
Some "honorary" instruments exist here... my T'Bird was built by Peter Cook in '72 and I've owned her since '77 too...
-
Welcome!
That V bass is beautiful! That's the way gibson should have made them!
Is it short scale?
-
Thanks. :)
My old V actually predates the first Gibson V Basses. Ibanez only made them for a few years in the mid 70s.
I was lucky enough to get this one in 1977 second hand. It was my first "good" bass, gigged it for years and I still have it.
Only thing I still have from those days.
Yes it is a full scale and packs one hell of a punch. The pickups are very powerful, clear and articulate.
It used give my old Bassman a hard time.
-
Welcome. Nice collection you got there!
-
Welcome, and nice Gibsons...
- georgestrings
-
Thanks for more kind welcomes.
Before I unsolder I just want to check my understanding.
I have had a look at the pickup and I cant see how to unsolder leads at the pickup end because of the epoxy- so I assume Highlander means at the end where the wires attach either to the rotary or the treble pot. There are three wires- red goes to lug 8 on the Varitone, black to lug 5 and the orange to the treble pot- which one should I disconnect to test the pickup? Also I assume you mean I should select position 2 on the Varitone to isolate the pickup when testing? Sorry, for being thick- but I am with this stuff. I guess my aim is to try and find out which component is the problem at this stage. Thanks for the help thus far.
I have used the numbering in this diagram, which I note that the author acknowledges is wrong but seems to correspond with what I am seeing with respect the neck pickup leads.
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=tA1R_kXL5YNEuM&tbnid=vOpvYBVCO5f8XM:&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.vintageguitarandbass.com%2Fshowthread.php%3F3253-Ripper-wiring-diagram&ei=YpI8VJf4ApXm8AWh94Ew&bvm=bv.77161500,d.dGc&psig=AFQjCNF5JvQ5QE5cO1yCqT42plJF_inoEQ&ust=1413341206072592
BTW- just replaced a bridge pickup in a Jazz just now, what a breeze compared to this.
-
I have had a look at the pickup and I cant see how to unsolder leads at the pickup end because of the epoxy-
In general, one should not unsolder at the pickup end, too risky! Cut where they connect to the circuit, leaving some wire/insulation
to remember where it was connected. If the pickup reads open, there is a possibility something is wrong with the wire(s), although rare.
I can't open the link, and never repaired a ripper, but reading switches can be a challenge sometimes. Just be patient, document what you do and post a gut pic if you have one .
-
Nice Gibsons! We have much in common! Love your Ibanez Flying V, just like Jim Lea of Slade, I have always wanted one! My first good solid body bass was a '76 Ibanez Destroyer, which I still have. I agree with Kenny check the pickups for resistance. I have had quite a few Rippers over the years all weak as kittens, I much prefer the Grabber. My much modded Destroyer.(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/Ibanezdestroyerchromedout002.jpg)
-
Nice Gibson collection! Welcome!
-
Cue Monty Python voice......"Look at the Gibsons on that one!"
-
"Camelot is such a silly place"
-
Nice Gibsons! We have much in common! Love your Ibanez Flying V, just like Jim Lea of Slade, I have always wanted one! My first good solid body bass was a '76 Ibanez Destroyer, which I still have. I agree with Kenny check the pickups for resistance. I have had quite a few Rippers over the years all weak as kittens, I much prefer the Grabber. My much modded Destroyer.(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/Ibanezdestroyerchromedout002.jpg)
Love the Destroyer!
-
Thanks for more kind welcomes.
Before I unsolder I just want to check my understanding.
I have had a look at the pickup and I cant see how to unsolder leads at the pickup end because of the epoxy- so I assume Highlander means at the end where the wires attach either to the rotary or the treble pot. There are three wires- red goes to lug 8 on the Varitone, black to lug 5 and the orange to the treble pot- which one should I disconnect to test the pickup? Also I assume you mean I should select position 2 on the Varitone to isolate the pickup when testing? Sorry, for being thick- but I am with this stuff. I guess my aim is to try and find out which component is the problem at this stage. Thanks for the help thus far.
I have used the numbering in this diagram, which I note that the author acknowledges is wrong but seems to correspond with what I am seeing with respect the neck pickup leads.
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=tA1R_kXL5YNEuM&tbnid=vOpvYBVCO5f8XM:&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.vintageguitarandbass.com%2Fshowthread.php%3F3253-Ripper-wiring-diagram&ei=YpI8VJf4ApXm8AWh94Ew&bvm=bv.77161500,d.dGc&psig=AFQjCNF5JvQ5QE5cO1yCqT42plJF_inoEQ&ust=1413341206072592
BTW- just replaced a bridge pickup in a Jazz just now, what a breeze compared to this.
Will do.
-
Thanks for the help so far.
I thought it would be better to post some pics and get some further advice before I start snipping.
So, which colour wires should I snip to test the neck pickup?
(http://i57.tinypic.com/x55p8n.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/30vnr6a.jpg)
-
One of the best resources for Gibson circuitry is probably Jules' site Fly Guitars...
This is a diagram (http://www.flyguitars.com/gibson/bass/ripperSchematic.php) from a Ripper in that era but that looks like a split coil pup with those three wires - anyone else with a Ripper with the same components can check if this is the same in theirs...?
You missed what I mentioned - you should not need to cut anything as position 2 on your rotary switch disconnects the "live" circuit (according to Jules' notes), so you should be able to check resistance values whilst connected...
Check values between orange/red and orange/black - orange appears to be the return or ground cable - also see if there is a value between red/black...
The drawing shows a single coil but that does not mean there is not two coils linked together as one, as per a mudbucker...
-
One of the best resources for Gibson circuitry is probably Jules' site Fly Guitars...
This is a diagram (http://www.flyguitars.com/gibson/bass/ripperSchematic.php) from a Ripper in that era but that looks like a split coil pup with those three wires - anyone else with a Ripper with the same components can check if this is the same in theirs...?
You missed what I mentioned - you should not need to cut anything as position 2 on your rotary switch disconnects the "live" circuit (according to Jules' notes), so you should be able to check resistance values whilst connected...
Check values between orange/red and orange/black - orange appears to be the return or ground cable - also see if there is a value between red/black...
The drawing shows a single coil but that does not mean there is not two coils linked together as one, as per a mudbucker...
Thanks for that I will have a go tomorrow in better light- I was going on what Amptech said about snipping. I tried readings, with the rotary in position 2, where the wires are soldered to the lugs etc and got nothing. So maybe it is the pickup- probably easier to replace than the rotary, but I will have another go. Appreciated.
-
Two things;
- I'm not sure about this switch but most switches can be cleaned, you might have corroded contacts somewhere. Worth trying.
- David Schwab (I think he is SGD luterie or something here) have posted many good threads on pickups, I think you can find a good deal on ripper electronics and pickups on the music electronics forum.
and yes, if you get no reading with the pickup IN the circuit, it should be easy enough to check it out of the circuit.
But record your work, even 3 wires can slip out of your memory quite rapidly!
-
OK.
Results:
Rotary position 1-
O/R- 5.85 k Ohms
O/B- 0.L
R/B- 0.L
Rotary position 2
O/R- 0.L k Ohms
O/B- 0.L
R/B- 0.L
Rotary position 3
O/R- 0.00 k Ohms
O/B- 5.75
R/B- 5.76
Rotary Position 4
O/R- 0.L k Ohms
O/B- 5.85
R/B- 0.L
Recap- nothing out of neck pickup in any position. Bridge pickup works in position 2 and 3.
Am I right in suspecting the neck pickup is dead and the readings I am getting in some of the tests for positions 1, 3 and 4 are the bridge pickup? Would this suggest that the rotary is working and the problem is confined to the neck pickup, or is that a stretch too far.
Again, thanks for the help.
-
Any views? :)
-
Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today, to pay our last respects... :sad:
I'd probably cut the wires just leaving a small amount of colour at the connections and test the pup detached, but imo that's a dead parrot sketch... last ditch checks...
-
Thanks, Guvner.
-
The reason for leaving a piece of colour is straight forward as some of the wiring they use is screwball with circuits going backwards-and-forwards through things and it can be a bugger to get right post the event - be aware that a replacement may not have the same colours, then you may need to know what the resistances should be from one of the owners of one on the board... it may be have two equal coil values with a single common (presently the orange one) or some other value - some circuitry can play havoc with your head when they are odd values...
There are some with distinctly differing values out there but it looks from your readings that they have two coils of roughly 6 ohms each...
The circuit shows the bridge pup works in all but position 1...
Position 4 tells you that there might be an open circuit on one of the coils as they are supposed to be in series, which means all wired in a straight line - wire/coil/wire/coil/wire etc in-and-out...
Good luck with finding a replacement...
Kenny
-
Thanks Kenny much appreciated.
I have snipped the wires to the neck pickup, leaving a small piece of the colour- great suggestion.
I still get no reading from the neck pickup with it disconnected- (the same as when using posi 2 on the rotary).
We can safely assume it is an ex pickup.
I am pretty thick when it comes to electronics, so sorry, when you say in the previous post,
"The circuit shows the bridge pup works in all but position 1...
Position 4 tells you that there might be an open circuit on one of the coils as they are supposed to be in series, which means all wired in a straight line - wire/coil/wire/coil/wire etc in-and-out..."
Are you saying there could be an issue with the bridge pickup?
Now, I see there is a restored Ripper pickup on US eBay but doesn't say whether neck or bridge- says it is 6.5K. Seymour Duncan do what they claim to be a direct drop in and it is stated to be 7.4k. I am leaning towards the Seymour Duncan. Are there any issues I should think about using a Seymour Duncan neck pickup with the existing Gibson bridge pickup- remember... I am electronic thick. Anyone used the Seymour Duncan replacement pickup?
PS. I have sent a question along these lines to Seymour Duncan.
Russell
-
Bridge pup is fine... the problem was that is like a set of old Xmas lights, when one lamp fails the whole thing stops working until you find the faulty part...
Ah... your readings are 1000 ohm range, not 1 ohm (stupid me) so the near values are 6000 ohm, or 6K, so 6.5K sounds fairly right...
Someone else needs to chip in with the details re alternates here as I'm quite basic re technology so tend to rip out the tech... :mrgreen:
-
In discussion with Seymour Duncan about a rewind.
-
Wow, turn my back for a few months and Vee pops up! Welcome mate - good to see you here!
Yes a damn fine collection of Gibson basses you have there.
-
Hey Wilbur, Thanks. Yes it is me!
-
Dead pickup on it's way to Seymour Duncan Custom Shop for a rewind.
-
Pickup just back here from SD Custom Shop- rewound- nice long leads in the original colours.
Tests 7.7.
Will be putting it back in tomorrow- glad I left the little end of coloured wire in place- great tip.
Thanks.
-
That is great news! Let us know how the operation goes!
-
It's alive!
Thanks for the help and advice guys.
Sounds great!
-
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xos2MnVxe-c
as a curious aside, that's Dwight Fry, as in The Ballad Of... by the old AC Group... iirc...