The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: dc10bass on December 01, 2014, 07:49:01 AM
-
Hello Group...
Is there currently anyone producing replacement / replica EB Banjo Tuners?
I see that Steinberger makes something similar for guitar, but doesn't appear they do for bass?
I work doing CAD for the Automotive industry and was considering designing and machining a few sets.
Is there maybe another alternative that has been successfully used in place of the original Banjo Tuners?
[Info from www.flyguitars.com]
EB Banjo Tuners
Gibson part number MH-570-P (1965).
Sealfast 12 to 1 ratio, as used on 1950s EB/EB1, and EB2 basses and the melody maker style slap body EB0
Thanks!
Curt
(http://www.flyguitars.com/graphics/part16bS.jpg) (http://www.flyguitars.com/graphics/part16cS.jpg)
-
I remember seeing something at Stew Mac a year or 2 ago - try perusing their website.
-
I remember seeing something at Stew Mac a year or 2 ago - try perusing their website.
Yes, those are the Steinberger Tuners for guitar / replacement for Gibson Firebirds.
...Does not look like it could handle bass strings.
http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Tuning_Machines/Guitar_and_Solid_Peghead/Steinberger_Gearless_Tuners.html
-
Neither could the originals. They litterally were banjo tuners (same as era Firebirds).
Worst case you can bore out the string holes a bit.
-
I don't think there are enough basses around to make it a worthwhile project
I bought my '60 EBO in '65 for $40. The first thing I did was shell out another $40 for a set of Schallers, a lot of money at that time for a 19 year old. That's how bad the banjos were. I saved them for a long time but they eventually disappeared. If they hadn't I would have put them back when I did the last refurb.
But I have no interest in aftermarket banjos. They wouldn't work as well as the Hipshots I'm using now and they wouldn't be OEM. So I don't see the point.
Dead on replicas might have an appeal to others, though.
-
Real banjo tuners have a 4:1 ratio.
Not very practical for bass.
-
The Steinbergers are 40:1.
.... but they don't look anywhere close to 'right.'
-
The 4:1 ratio is for quick changing to different tunings during a show, NOT for accuracy.
-
The 4:1 ratio is for quick changing to different tunings during a show, NOT for accuracy.
So how bad is a tuner with a gear ratio of 14:1?
-
Never have paid much attention to my bass tuners and tuning ratios...as long as they tune.
Surprises me that the Gibson peg gives a 12:1 ratio, because I thought the 4:1 in banjos was a result of the "planetary" design's shortcomings.
-
Never have paid much attention to my bass tuners and tuning ratios...as long as they tune.
Surprises me that the Gibson peg gives a 12:1 ratio, because I thought the 4:1 in banjos was a result of the "planetary" design's shortcomings.
I don't think the Gibsons are planetary, there's a small offset unlike most banjo tuners.
Lots of photos here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=banjo+tuning+pegs&client=firefox-a&hs=ZPM&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=nts&biw=1359&bih=648&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=2kF9VNvPG4ecygTduYD4BQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=Hsa6jI8dih2gSM%253A%3BfPfHtBqqZzfH3M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.frets.com%252FFretsPages%252FMusician%252FBanjo%252FBanjoPegs%252FBanjoPegsViews%252Fpegs06.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.frets.com%252FFretsPages%252FMusician%252FBanjo%252FBanjoPegs%252Fpegs02.html%3B450%3B338
-
I think if you made a set for Bass, with larger string holes, it would be useful.
But, if you want to recoup your costs by selling more, I would also make guitar sets with a ratio up near the Steinberger tuners. The Steinbergers are good but you need to mod you guitar to use them.
A set that fits exactly to the original holes but has a higher ratio would be a great option.
-
I think if you made a set for Bass, with larger string holes, it would be useful.
But, if you want to recoup your costs by selling more, I would also make guitar sets with a ration up near the Steinberger tuners. The Steinbergers are good but you need to mod you guitar to use them.
A set that fits exactly to the original holes but has a higher ration would be a great option.
Nice one, Thanks!
-
Oh.....and interchangeable plastic or metal buttons, so the buyer can choose either.
I can see some guys wanting metal buttons even on an EB, in some cases or maybe someone wanting to try plastic ones on an old Firebird.
-
Late to the party. Ibanez did make a copy for their 70's Firebird copies. Pretty much same damned things as the original Gibsons. They were a Kluson thing and the only difference between the guitar and bass was the shaft which had a bigger hole for a bass string and a slightly different size. The thing that sucked out loud was the offset design. The tension of a bass string tuned to pitch would physically pull the shaft gear away from the gear on the tuning button. The thing would slip like crazy, not to mention that it was a bear to turn if it kept contact. The only way to get them to work was to use short scale strings with the lowest tension possible. Considering the original headstocks were smaller to boot, installing bass tuners left very limited options. There were the Schallers later on, but back in the day most good bass tuners wouldn't fit without hanging over, and reaming the headstock out wasn't the wisest thing to do to their weakest spot. Those crummy Japanese things fit ok but looked awful. Through extensive trial and error in the days before Internet and buying parts via mailers from City Lights, I found that Grover Imperials fit the Gibson head stocks without Reaming, and worked ok with the shaft hole opened up a tad. Aesthetics are subjective but I thought they looked less appalling than Schallers or clover leaf keys. I wish they had Steinberger things back then. But then again, a set of bass tuners cost close to what anyone paid for a 50's Gibson bass back then.
-
There were the Schallers later on...
I bought these Schallers for my '60 EBO in 1966 at a music store in Hialeah, Florida. They required only very slight reaming. Broke one of the ears off the E string shaft in the 70s, found a complete replacement tuner at Gary Brawer's SF shop in the late 90s. Not as stout as current Schallers but a vast improvement over the stock Gibsons. Note the 'Made in W.Germany'.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/02/P1070175_zps2318b425.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/02/P1070175_zps2318b425.jpg.html)
Very nice description of the POS banjos BTW!
-
I am not surprised they were made that far back, but wouldn't have thought that. From my haunts, they really started showing up a lot in the 70's. My 56 EB had them, and yes they were a major improvement on the banjo pegs. They were not easy to find everywhere though. I had a Schaller catalog that listed a whole bunch of cool stuff they made but the distribution was so odd that the store I got it from could only get the tuners and an upright bass pickup at the time. They made a look alike Model G type thing too.
I actually loved the look of banjo pegs, but got sick of the wobbly crappy nature. I did like Imperials though. I think they fit the headstock better.