The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Bass Zone => Topic started by: Blazer on May 20, 2009, 05:57:21 PM
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At least that's what I heard the recording engineer who's working on my Band's debut album say when he was criticizing my Brother's basses: A Medium scale Ibanez which I souped up with EMG pickups and My eighties Vantage bass which he uses.
As far as he was concerned, the best bass for our brand of old school heavy metal should have a Fender P-bass on it, no fancy bullshit but just an honest-to-god Precision. I looked at my brother and said: "Don't worry, your basses are just fine for playing with us."
Still he does have a point, when broken down how much has been played on the Fender Precision after it first came out and even players like John Entwistle, who did a recording session with a Buzzard which malfunctioned, prompting him to smash it and then grabbing a Precision bass and finishing the session with that. Talk about legendary soul? James Jamerson, Duck Dunn and Carol Kaye all played P-basses. Want to talk metal? Iron Maiden's Steve Harris has used a P-bass on everything Maiden released so far.
The Ibanez and Vantage basses that my Brother uses are fine workhorses but neither of them has that typical "Punch" of a P-bass, so I often wonder how our band would sound with my brother playing one.
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My Hot Rod P is my bass of choice these days.
Yeah~ P for PUNCH! Right in the face 8)
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A Dark Star P-bass is my #1 axe that band mates called "Big Wood" within 30 seconds of my bringing it to rehearsal. They don't ever want to see my other basses again. And I still get fan mail and gig photos from a rocker in Dublin who bought one of my builds on a visit last year. It's not my workmanship - the formula just works with either rounds or flats.
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Nothing wrong with a Precision, of course, but the recording engineer's attitude is all too common. He's too lazy and ignorant to work with what you have and want.
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No denying it's rightful place in music and recording, it's a landmark instrument by any measure.
But no P for me......No thanks, the neck is too big for my small hands and quite honestly I don't care for the look or the tone, it's not me. I've owned one (a '73) so it's not like I haven't tried..........
Your recording engineer is lazy, make him turn a couple of knobs on his precious mixer and try something new ;)
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Yeah,
unfortunately from 'Engineer Speak' this all too often translates as-
"Give me what I was taught to EQ for so I can use my pre-sets"
and as a result you'll sound just like everyone else in the end mix.
There is something to be said for originality in tone
and very few bass players can be recognized by theirs.
Maybe for exactly this reason?
:-\
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Yep, same sentiment here. Lazy and/or insular minded engineer. The P has been used to such an extent over the years that it is now THE generic bass sound.
I like to use that sound sometimes but I also prefer the option of having other sounds and voicings.
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Anecdotal evidence has little forensic value. So P Basses are most common. As was the VW Beetle, but that didn't make it the best car in the world. P Basses have a sound of their own and it's relatively easy to have them well-heard in a mix without being too loud. For an old school metal sound I'd be worried a little though whether the P reaches down deep enough and whether its main strength - mids and low mids- won't collide with the frequencies of the guitars if brought out to their greatest effect. Iron Maiden's typical sound just proves that: Harris is much louder in the mix than any of the three guitars and he lacks ooomph/foundation (his busy playing style doesn't allow too much of that), but with three guitars beside you, you can stretch a bit. Then again, Geezer Butlers graveyard lows with nasty distortion on those early albums emanated forn a old P. But he had to fight for that sound with the then producer. Goes to show that a P Bass can deliver sounds not readily identified with it, but most engineers are too set in their ways to explore its possibilities.
My gripe with the P Bass has always been more about how it looks (plain, only half-designed, utalitaristic and unelegant) and how many there are of them than how it plays or sounds. In fact, if you can't get a sound you like out of a decent P bass, then you should perhaps pick up playing tennis. And if you consider the 34" scale one of the determining factors in the P Bass sound (which to my mind it is), then the world if full of P Basses from all brands, Gibson included.
Uwe
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I am pretty much a Fender P bigot, so my opinion is a bit slanted, but one of the things that I like most about the P is the way they blend in the mix.
Even things that I think I hear when I practice alone , like notes that are softer (not dead but soft), little things that make me question the intonation and other little things that I think may be just a little off. They all disappear when blended with other instruments. I was listening to some jam recordings that I did last winter that had a few other bass players on some tracks with a custom built pricey piece , an Alembic and an old Musicman. The P and the Musicman came across the best , the others would have benifitted if they used a compressor. In general the P and the Musicman just fit right in with minimal tweaking (it was all live recording).
Rick
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In the same way that my taste in motorcycles, cars and trucks is out of the norm, I've discovered my taste in basses is as well. Even my P-bass is a weird one.
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In fact, if you can't get a sound you like out of a decent P bass, then you should perhaps pick up playing tennis.
Uwe
If you have your sound down cold on another brand of bass no engineer is going to complain in the first place anyway. P basses can sound good in the hands of someone who's been playing for three weeks, listen to some of the old early 60's records, mistakes galore but they sound good anyway. P basses like most good basses reflect the personality of the player, there have been many different sounds from the P bass, one thing they all have in common though is solidity and punch. You really have to work hard at making one sound bad.
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It's a bass that is the epitome of boring. The sound is plunky and the look is blah, with the added detraction of every Tom, Dick, and Harry having one. Of all the things in the world to stick with the "safe bet," why something creative like music?
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I agree about the look and the prevalence, not the sound though. I can plug in a P bass and feel at home on it within seconds, it sounds like me too. But the look is decidedly unenticing, the early ones with the singlecoil and the later telecasters with the Fender mudbucker excepted.
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I wouldn't say the sound is blah or boring, it's just ubiquitous. Yet that doesn't mean you can't get your own sound of it. Unless you think Entwistle on a P sounded like Duck Dunn. ;)
Problem as always is with incomptent jerk engineers who are looking to get out of work instead of working with you.
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I agree - not boring ot me. The instrument simply is what it is. I appreciate what it is, and don't find that boring.
Think if you were playing an upright bass - every one in the world looks and sounds essentially like every other (Stradivarii, etc. notwithstanding).
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I agree - not boring ot me. The instrument simply is what it is. I appreciate what it is, and don't find that boring.
Think if you were playing an upright bass - every one in the world looks and sounds essentially like every other (Stradivarii, etc. notwithstanding).
Being a (so so) upright player myself and a P bass player (also Ricks and Gibsons) I have heard a multitude of different sounds from both uprights and P basses. There are people who think Ricks and Gibsons all sound the same too. I am not among them.
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Of course it's a fact that Duck Dunn and Entwistle sound completely different. Still I think a P has a signature tone you always recognoze. Because 90% of all songs in the world are recorded with a P it just feels and sounds good and familiar.
But I always love songs with unfamiliar bass sounds.
At this moment I gig with my P mostly too, cos it sounds well with every amp (I guess every amp maker checks their amp with a Fender and not with an EB3) and it's no problem if it falls of your stand.
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(I guess every amp maker checks their amp with a Fender and not with an EB3)
I think this is true. I can get a good sound with my Ps out of all but the crapiest of amps. It's been several years and amp technology has changed a great deal, but Gibsons, in particular, were more picky. The first thing that comes to mind is an EB2. Many years ago I wanted one of these so bad and ended up owning one for a matter of a few days because it just didn't work with my amp. I was using an old Ampeg with 2 Altec Lansing 15s which are a very responsive , crisp, free moving speaker and that EB2 was so bottomy and muddy that it would have shreaded them in seconds if I turned it up . I wasn't going to buy a new amp too , so the Gibson went right back to the store . I had similar issues with a Ric using that amp, but not as bad.
Rick
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Never found anything that did not sound good thru my Hiwatt and not likely to buy new here... ;)
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More speaker technology than amp issues here. Give me a good tube head ( guitar or bass ) as long as the speaker cab is up to the job I've no worries
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Being a (so so) upright player myself and a P bass player (also Ricks and Gibsons) I have heard a multitude of different sounds from both uprights and P basses. There are people who think Ricks and Gibsons all sound the same too. I am not among them.
Bob, as a former upright player I shouldn't have made such a sweeping statement! My fault - you're right. Yes, there are different sounds - but I confess I can't tell a Ric from a Fender or an upright Kay from anything else by listening to it. I can tell there is a difference - but I pretty much like all of them when they're played well.
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Never found anything that did not sound good thru my Hiwatt and not likely to buy new here... ;)
Same here with my old Ampeg SVT, everything sounds good through them, that is if they're capable of sounding good.
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If pee basses were cars, they would be dark grey toyota corollas. Or, even worse, volvos.
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I love my Precision Bass. It does have a tone that I love. Some of my favorite players play(ed) one.
Pete Farndon, Paul Simonon, Bob Glaub, Duck Dunn, George McArdle, Norbert Putnam, Jamerson, Babbitt, Ronnie Baker, etc., etc.....
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If pee basses were cars, they would be dark grey toyota corollas. Or, even worse, volvos.
Meaning they'd work well and be trouble-free practically forever? ;)
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Meaning they'd work well and be trouble-free practically forever? ;)
Well, the word I had in mind was "boring", but... 8)
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boring is many things to different people. maybe some folks don't like crack happy, overpriced and underwhelming short scales and basses named after some kinda mythical bird thing. it could happen.
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Lets not turn this into a Talkbass thread! ;)
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Lets not turn this into a Talkbass thread! ;)
Hi, my name is Fassa..... ;)
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this isn't a talkbass thread it's a difference of opinion.
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If pee basses were cars, they would be dark grey toyota corollas. Or, even worse, volvos.
I like to think of P-basses as Ford Mustangs...from stripper V6s and convertibles to SVT's, Shelbys, and Saleens with readily available parts to modify and personalize. Not BMW M3's, Corvette Z06's, or Ferrari's...but flavor of their own.
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Hey, I'm a big P-bass fan, but I also can see how people could look at one and see the millions of them produced over the decades. Variety is good, too.
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They have over produced P basses for sure over the years. (after the demise of the original Fullerton factory) My late 1982 vintage reissue P bass is a very different animal compared to variety of P bass models that Fender is currently producing in all of their factories around the globe. Back when mine was made they were all still made in California.
And I can remember when the base model Mustangs came with a straight six! ;D
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If pee basses were cars, they would be dark grey toyota corollas. Or, even worse, volvos.
Nope they'd be 64 Chevy Biscaynes with 427s and four speeds. They can roar in the right hands, they're sleepers.
Pete Farndon also played an all black Rickenbacker 4001, you can hear it all over their first album.
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Knocking the P Bass is a bit like omelettes against eggism. A TBird is closer to a P Bass then it is to an EB-1. P Basses are the Volkswagen Beetle of rock bass. Better cars have been built since the demise of the Beetle, but it is an iconic car and almost everybody has driven one at some time or another.
You won't find me hear knocking a P or Jazz Bass' musical qualities. As regards their esthetics, that is strictly a matter of taste
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I'm talkin about aesthetics too. Their sound is ok, kinda trebly for my taste.
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Nope they'd be 64 Chevy Biscaynes with 427s and four speeds. They can roar in the right hands, they're sleepers.
Pete Farndon also played an all black Rickenbacker 4001, you can hear it all over their first album.
A '64 Biscayne? With a 427 and 4-speed, it's gonna be a real beast to row around in traffic or as a daily driver. I see the P-Bass more as a Ford F-150 (coming from a Mopar guy!) - it's ubiquitous (with good reason), generally pretty sturdy, and can be used in a myriad of different applications. It's design is pretty basic, but is so well executed that it somehow seems to transcend its limitations.
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I see the P-Bass more as a Ford F-150 (coming from a Mopar guy!) - it's ubiquitous (with good reason), generally pretty sturdy, and can be used in a myriad of different applications. It's design is pretty basic, but is so well executed that it somehow seems to transcend its limitations.
Great metaphor! I can buy that!
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Nope they'd be 64 Chevy Biscaynes with 427s and four speeds. They can roar in the right hands, they're sleepers.
Pete Farndon also played an all black Rickenbacker 4001, you can hear it all over their first album.
The 427 came out with the '65 model year. In '64 they were still using the big bad 409.
That first Pretenders record still rocks.
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We interrupt today's symposium for a moment to reflect on the complex, cryptic and deeply meaningful Lyrics of "409". How metaphysical...... :P
She's real fine my 409
She's real fine my 409
My 409
Well I saved my pennies and I saved my dimes
(Giddy up giddy up 409)
'fore I knew there would be a time
(Giddy up giddy up 409)
When I would buy a brand new 409
(409, 409)
Giddy up giddy up giddy up 409
(Giddy up giddy up 409)
Giddy up 409
(Giddy up giddy up 409)
Giddy up 409
(Giddy up giddy up 409)
Giddy up 40...
Nothing can catch her
Nothing can touch my 409
409 ooooo
(Giddy up giddy up oooo)
(Giddy up giddy up oooo)
(Giddy up giddy up oooo)
(Giddy up giddy up)
When I take her to the track she really shines
(Giddy up giddy up 409)
She always turns in the fastest times
(Giddy up giddy up 409)
My four speed dual quad posi-traction 409
(409, 409, 409, 409)
Giddy up giddy up giddy up 409
(Giddy up giddy up 409)
Giddy up 409
(Giddy up giddy up 409)
Giddy up 409
(Giddy up giddy up 409)
Giddy up 40...
Nothing can catch her
Nothing can touch my 409
(409 409 409 409)
Giddy up 409
(409 409 409 409)
Giddy up 409
(409 409 409 409)
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Yes, people once wrote love songs to their cars. And Honda motorbikes.
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Yes, people once wrote love songs to their cars. And Honda motorbikes.
Remember that old ad "you meet the nicest people on a Honda"? Hilarious!
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Remember that old ad "you meet the nicest people on a Honda"? Hilarious!
I do remember. With its mighty 50cc engine, you could meet them even if you were walking and they were riding. ;D
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Yeah....a partial sample of a list I found.....
# "409" - The Beach Boys
# "426 Super Stock" - Dick Dale
# "455 Rocket" - Kathy Mattea
# "455 SD" - The Hellacopters
# "57 Chevrolet" - Billie Jo Spears
# "'59" - Brian Setzer
# "8 Miles a Gallon" - Scott Miller and Commonwealth
# "Antique 32 Studebaker Dictator Coupe" - Ronny and the Daytonas
# "Ballad of the General Lee, The" - Doug Kershaw and the Hazzard County Boys
# "Belvedere" - Andy Swindell
# "Bitchin' Camaro" - The Dead Milkmen
# "Black Cadillac" - Roseanne Cash
# "Bonneville Bonnie" - The Rip Cords
# "Boss Barracuda" - Joanie Sommers
# "Brand New Cadillac" - The Clash
# "Bucket T" - Ronny and the Daytonas
# "Buick Electra" - Black Helicopter
# "Cadillac Assembly Line" - Albert King
# "Cadillac Blues" - Southern Comfort on the Skids
# "Cadillac Boogie" - Jimmy Liggins
# "Cadillac Ranch" - Bruce Springsteen
# "Cadillac Walk" - Mink DeVille
# "Camaro" - Pernod Fils
# "Chevette" - Audio Adrenaline
# "Chevrolet" - ZZ Top
# "Chevys and Fords" - Bryant Keith
# "Chevy Van" - Sammy Johns
# "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" - The Sherman Brothers
# "Corvette Song, The" - George Jones
# "Coupe de Ville" - Neil Young
# "Crazy 'Bout an Automobile" - Ry Cooder
# "Dead Man's Curve" - Jan and Dean
# "Drag City" - Jan and Dean
# "Drive-In" - The Beach Boys
# "Drive My Car" - The Beatles
# "Fast Car" - Tracy Chapman
# "From a Buick 6" - Bob Dylan
# "Full Blown 426 Hemi" - The Untamed Youth
# "Fun, Fun, Fun" - The Beach Boys
# "Galaxy 500" - Reverend Horton Heat
# "General Lee" - Johnny Cash
# "Geronimo's Cadillac" - Michael Martin Murphey
# "Grandpappy's Hot Rod Blues" - Grandpappy Earl Davis
# "Greased Lightning" - John Travolta
# "Guitars, Cadillacs" - Dwight Yoakam
# "Hardtop Race" - George Stogner
# "Hemi Barracuda" - Dan Olsen
# "Hemi Charger" - Kill Switch
# "Hemi Cuda" - Hemi Cuda
# "Hey Little Cobra" - the Rip Cords
# "Hot Rod Blues"- The Southernairess
# "Hot Rod Girl" - Brian Setzer
# "Hot Rod Heart" - John Fogerty
# "Hot Rod Lincoln" - Commander Cody
# "Hot Rod Lincoln" - Charlie Ryan
# "Hot Rod Race" - Arthur "Guitar Boogie" Smith
# "I'm Changing My Name to Chrysler" - Arlo Guthrie
# "I'm in Love with My Car" - Mike Ness
# "I'm in Love with My Car" - Queen
# "In My Car" - The Beach Boys
# "James Dean" - The Eagles
# "Judy's Got a Stick Shift" - The Hot Rods
# "Last Kiss" - J. Frank Wilson
# "Leader of the Pack, The" - Shangri-Las
# "Life Is a Highway" - Rascal Flatts
# "Little Deuce Coupe" - The Beach Boys
# "Little G.T.O." - Ronny and the Daytonas
# "Little Honda" - The Beach Boys
# "Little Old Lady from Pasadena" - Jan and Dean
# "Little Red Corvette" - Prince
# "Little Scrambler" - Ronny and the Daytonas
# "Long Black Limousine" - Elvis Presley
# "Maybelline" - Chuck Berry
# "Mercury Blues" - Ry Cooder & David Lindley
# "Mercedes Benz" - Janis Joplin
# "Mercury Blues" - David Lindley
# "Mercury Blues" - Steve Miller
# "Model T Baby" - Jack Turner
# "Mustang Sally" - Buddy Guy
# "Mustang Sally" - Wilson Pickett
# "My Chevrolet" - Phil Vassar
# "My Hooptie" - Sir Mix-a-Lot
# "No Particular Place to Go" - Chuck Berry
# "No Wheels" - Ronny and the Daytonas
# "Ol' '55" - The Eagles
# "Pink Cadillac" - Bruce Springsteen
# "Plymouth Belvedere" - Trish Lester
# "Pontiac Blues" - Sonny Boy Williamson
# "Ragtop Cadillac" - Lonestar
# "Red Hot Roadster" - The Rip Cords
# "Road Hog"- John D. Loudermilk
# "Rocket 88" - Bill Haley and the Saddlemen
# "Rockin' down the Highway" - The Doobie Brothers
# "Route 66" - Nat King Cole
# "Schlock Rod" - Jan and Dean
# "Silver Thunderbird" - Jo Dee Messina
# "Solid Gold Cadillac" - Pearl Bailey
# "Son Of Mustang Ford" - Swervedriver
# "Stick Shift" - The Ventures
# "Still Cruisin'" - The Beach Boys
# "Surf City" - Jan and Dean
# "Swing Low Sweet Cadillac" - Dizzy Gillespie
# "Theme Song from 'Smokey and the Bandit,' The" - Jerry Reed
# "This Car of Mine" - The Beach Boys
# "Three Window Coupe" - The Rip Cords
# "Trans Am" - Neil Young
# "Welfare Cadillac" - Guy Drake
# "Z28" - Static-X
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You missed the immortal "Making Love In A Subaru."
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You missed the immortal "Making Love In A Subaru."
I gotta Youtube that, never heard it, but I've tried it ;)
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It was recorded at a time when all Subarus were very small. :)
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Works for me :)
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I do remember. With its mighty 50cc engine, you could meet them even if you were walking and they were riding. ;D
Ahem! Do not disparage the Super Cub! It was also available in 70 and 90cc models. ;D
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Yeah....a partial sample of a list I found.....
...which is missing the Beach Boys' "Shut Down", the tale of a race between a fuel injected Sting Ray and a 413 Super Stock Dodge. In the song, the 'Vette won - in real life, that hardly ever happened.
FYI - Gary Usher, who co-wrote "409" said the following in the foreword of "The Illustrated Discography of Hot Rod Music 1961-1965:
"The height of the hot rod fad climaxed during a one month period when Roger (Christian) and I actually wrote, and I recorded, over 50 car songs. By that time, I had purchased a new 426 Plymouth Hemi Superstock. It's interesting that I never did own a 409 Chevy; by the time I had "saved my dimes," the 426 was considerably faster. I should add that I won many events at the San Fernando dragstrip with my 426 and a young, exuberant Dennis Wilson by my side."
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Fraulein: Will my tiny Renault Twingo do the job too?
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Fraulein: Will my tiny Renault Twingo do the job too?
Schatzi, That may depend on just how, Ummm...... limber you actually are ;D
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I had a friend with a killer red MGB GT - I think it was a 68. This was a typical MG it looked a hell of lot better than it actually ran and seems like we pushed it as much as drove in it. I got a call from my him at two in the morning once to drive down to West Beach in Galveston, 20 mile trip, and help him get the car started. When I got there he and his elfen girlfriend were there, and in a pretty plowed condition I might add, and yeah the MG was dead - as usuall. When I got in the car to try and get it started I see two size five foot prints, in sand, on the inside of the windshield - passenger side ;D I guess that love will always find a way - more like lust actually.
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Just more proof that Englishman should not design cars ;)
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Just more proof that Englishman should not design cars ;)
Closely related phrase: "Lucas, Prince of Darkness."
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Just more proof that Englishman should not design cars ;)
Not fair. They can usually make it all the way across a parking lot before needing a major overhaul. :)
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Just more proof that Englishman should not design cars ;)
The damn thing looked fantastic! If we could get it to Sonic it was a babe magnet - only problem was that the girls always wanted a ride ;D And, trust me, you didn't get lucky when she had to help you push it for 10 blocks ;D
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Just more proof that Englishman should not design cars ;)
I always loved the Triumph TR6
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Aston Martin for me if we are talking british
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I'm excited about these new designs: smart cars (http://www.smartimesmagazine.com/smart-car-articles/new-smart-car-designs/) ;D
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Not fair. They can usually make it all the way across a parking lot before needing a major overhaul. :)
Kinda makes you want to buy something French ;)
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I'm excited about these new designs: smart cars (http://www.smartimesmagazine.com/smart-car-articles/new-smart-car-designs/) ;D
Those are cute.
Talking of British cars, here's my nemesis, circa 1977 I think. Great when it was working, which wasn't often. What insane optimism led me to try to get it up a mountain in Switzerland? By this stage the throttle was sticking, the wipers didn't work and the cooling system mysteriously emptied itself at random intervals.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2540/3704758142_138e2acfdc_o.jpg)
>>Kinda makes you want to buy something French
About the same period I was driving a Renault something on the Rover test track and the gear lever came off in my hand. So, yes, it wasn't only the British.
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My sympathies to anyone who owned a TR-7. They were as bad as my Saab 99, maybe worse.
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TR-7 was the absolute bottom of the barrel in British sports cars. I've got the perfect British sports car ;), a 99 miata with a supercharger and a mild shot of nitrous.
Rick
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My first car was a '68 Triumph Spitfire (not very good for hauling bass gear, I used mom's station wagon for that). It was rust with white trim. Ran on average 4 days a week. More like a go cart than a car. Rusted out wheel wells you could see the front tires from the driver seat. I glassed them up but water still shot up from the gear shift. Several times the rear wheels just spun off. In the winter we put a orange bike flag on it, the snow piles up so high here you couldn't even see it coming down the road. No locking column, my friends used to borrow it by push starting it. It was alot of fun, but the only British car I ever owned !
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I had the misfortune of working for the company. I had actually ordered a Spitfire on the employee scheme, as I liked the idea of the rag top. The promised delivery date came and went, so I started hassling. After a while the fleet manager phoned: "We know your Spitfire was built, but we can't find it anywhere. Would you like a TR7, we've got plently of those?"
There was a joke about British cars that you'd switch on the lights and the wipers would come on. So, in 2002, in an ill-advised fit of nostalgia and discovering that after 25 years I was still entitled to a staff discount, I bought a new MG. First time I took it out at night, I switched on the lights and the wipers started up.
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Nice story :mrgreen:
I hope you don't mind if I go a bit off topic and talk about P basses? Your story remind me of one.
As you maybe know my Fiesta P got stolen and my colleague (who had it when it was stolen) and I got a discount from Fender Europe because they hated the story. After a while a Fender employee called me and asked me that they could also send a Marcus Miller Jazz instead of a Precision... NOOOOOO!
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my dad had two TR-6's (a little bigger than the Spitfire) both were cherry.one navy blue the other British racing green. nice and fast.
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I also discovered you needed two British cars, one to drive while fixing the other. I had a GT6 and an MGA, also at times an MGB or Spitfire. I held on to the MGA for about 30 years, only selling it a few years ago.
Oh, I did finally get a P bass a few months ago. I have been assimilated.
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I am the proud owner if a 1958 Fiat 1200 Transformabile (Spyder), which was my high school graduation gift in 1968. It has been in storage since the 1970's and is just about finished with a minor restoration - so I've had no reliability problems at all for 30 years! If you don't want service problems, you can't miss by having it up on blocks.
Here's a promo photo. The windshield is low enough that the convertible top actually extends UP to allow headroom.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Cars/1957-fiat-1200-spider.jpg)
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WOW!
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I see a great future for Fiat, Chrysler and the concrete block industry. ;)
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WOW!
Get in your Twingo and ride! ;)
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:mrgreen:
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LMFAO ! Were we not talking about the Fender Precision bass ? The most robust and reliable of all bases ? How could this degenerate into a discussion about British sports cars ? Only here.
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I tried to make a parallel between the Fender P and the Ford Mustang earlier in the thread, having owned and modified several varieties of each. Didn't they each cause the same sensation when they were first released, and still have a following 40+ years later?
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I don't think either the 51 or 57 P versions caused a sensation, it was a long hard road to acceptance. Nothing like the Mustang which was almost an instant hit.
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Fair enough; if guys were buying somethng for their wife, it was probably a Mustang, not a P-bass. :)
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Well, I really tried to go back to basses... I think it all begun when Fender started using car colours for Precisions.
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>>Kinda makes you want to buy something French
"Never buy a French car unless you live in France" - Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers.
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something French...? like a letter...? ;)
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French Fries: Too small.
French Balcony: No balcony at all....
Frech Renault Twingo: More gay icon than car
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I also discovered you needed two British cars, one to drive while fixing the other. I had a GT6 and an MGA, also at times an MGB or Spitfire. I held on to the MGA for about 30 years, only selling it a few years ago.
Oh, I did finally get a P bass a few months ago. I have been assimilated.
I'd completely forgotten about the GT6. Competed with the MGB, which was owned by the same company. Crazy.
There was a British guitar industry, which was almost as successful as the cars.
(http://www.watkinsguitars.co.uk/IMG_7633%20(Medium).JPG)
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/28/42969656_ac77701d52.jpg?v=0)
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The sunburst option was obviously big with this company ;)
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WEM/Watkins was quite big. The Who used a WEM PA and Noel Gallagher used a little tubecombo until a couple of years ago. And ofcourse the famous Gilmour 4x12, which is reissued now.
Guitars. Only Burns made real production numbers I guess?
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I ain't even mentioning mine, the only one here...?
Hiwatt did alright... but that ain't a bass... ;)
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Amp wise the UK of course has Hiwatt, Vox, Marshall, Trace Elliot, Ashdown, ....
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also Laney and Orange
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also burns selmer and burman.
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the fender p bass is the very definition of an electric bass and has proven itself for the past fifty some odd years in every type of music. plus they are nowhere as fragile as that other brand that gets much love around here.
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the fender p bass is the very definition of an electric bass and has proven itself for the past fifty some odd years in every type of music. plus they are nowhere as fragile as that other brand that gets much love around here.
This is how I see it too :)
BTW: How did you turn into a Jr. Member? You haven't been screwing around with the Wayback Machine again , have you :o
Rick
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i deleted my old account and started a new gentler, kinder one. ;D
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Hmmm, I've got a pretty lousy attitude lately, maybe that would work for me ???
Rick
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LMFAO ! Were we not talking about the Fender Precision bass ? The most robust and reliable of all bases ? How could this degenerate into a discussion about British sports cars ? Only here.
Not only "only here", but ALWAYS here. You could make book on any discussion on this forum veering away from the original topic within 10-15 posts.
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That's because we're easily distracted. The ADS Outpost.
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its proudly our "point of difference" ;)
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How much is there to say about basses? Most of them are made of wood, they have strings and frets, some of them snap if you cough near them. That's about it really. :o :o :o
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the fender p bass is the very definition of an electric bass and has proven itself for the past fifty some odd years in every type of music. plus they are nowhere as fragile as that other brand that gets much love around here.
I also hear that vanilla is the most popular ice cream in the world. ;D
Good to have you back!
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thank you sir. i did not know anyone noticed i was gone except dave. ;)
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I just bought a reissue of Live at Leads which includes the complete show, the original only had 6 songs, this has two CD's, 2+ hours, includes the whole Tommy opera. If anyone here dislikes Fender P basses or thinks they are boring or dull sounding check out this CD, it'll probably change your mind. I actually liked Entwistle's sound when he played P basses the best.
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I just bought a reissue of Live at Leads which includes the complete show, the original only had 6 songs, this has two CD's, 2+ hours, includes the whole Tommy opera. If anyone here dislikes Fender P basses or thinks they are boring or dull sounding check out this CD, it'll probably change your mind. I actually liked Entwistle's sound when he played P basses the best.
Who's Live at Leeds was recorded 39 years ago! Why not try and get a cool sound that's from TODAY? Nothing about Entwistle's playing or even his P-Bass is boring, really. But 4 decades of the same "standard" sound really can be. If I had unlimited money I would probably have someone make a bass for me and pickups even. Music is a celebration of the past, but sometimes I wish people would stop livin' in it!
And I'm not saying that's you or anyone else here, Bob. I'm talking to those lazy soundmen who keep this P-Bass Above-All-Else urban legend thing going. At the end of the day, any bass in the world will sing if the hands playing it will it to.
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Who's Live at Leeds was recorded 39 years ago! Why not try and get a cool sound that's from TODAY?
That would come across better if you were playing a 5-string active Spector or Warwick. When was the TBird introduced, 1963?
OK, I know what you said is not about you or me or anyone else, but I've got a Spector and I don't dislike it, but as a working bass I really prefer either of my Precisions. I agree with you about lazy sound guys, but I wouldn't take it out on the poor old P.
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39 years is nothing. acoustic instruments have sounded the same for hundreds of years.
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The 5 string bass I play is a custom made Jazz type bass made by my buddy Bill White. I wanted an alder body 5 string bass with a maple neck and active/passive electronics. It sounds like a Jazz bass and that tone is one of my favorites. I love the tones other basses produce but for some reason a Jazz really cuts through the mix well. And I love my 1983 Fullerton reissue P bass too.
www.zosguitars.com (http://www.zosguitars.com)
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39 years is nothing. acoustic instruments have sounded the same for hundreds of years.
That is a pretty valid point ;D
Rick
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Entwistle sounds interesting on any bass. And some people sound boring on any bass. I'm still Uwe Hornung when I play a P Bass, I'm probably even a bit more agressive in my playing (or it comes out that way) than if I play a TBird (which has kind of a soothing influence on me). But the longer I play, the more I realize that gear - as long as it works and has a minimum quality - has only a miniscule part to do with how you sound and what you project.
Let's not end up like guitarists, those sorry creatures that believe their identity is determined by "their" guitar and "their" amp. The look of dread you see on guitarists' faces when you propose to them "well, you might play over someone else's amp, you know ..." always cracks me up. If you are not able to get something that appoximates your sound (enough to fool 90% of the world population) over a run-of-the-mill bass and amp, you should seek counseling.
Yes, I'm a nerdy Gibson bass collector, but I would hate to think that they define my playing. I can have as much fun on a Yamaha or Ibanez.
Uwe
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Have there been any worthwhile advances in bass technology in the last 40 years?
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More advances in attitude than technology I guess
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Advances... hmm... I just can't see an improvement in the basic 4 strings that I've got - back in the day, I played more HM than what I do these days, mostly 3 piece + vox, but I filled in just as well with the odd chord, here and there (God bless the Lemmy); nothing new in that; plenty of chords going on, even more laid-back players, a-la-Andy Fraser, used them. Yes, there are 4/5/6/8/12 string basses, and variations thereof, and I know they have there fans here, but it is all up to the individual...
I find that when I play my "Tequilabird" there's a more agressive edge to my playing that occurs (the "tequila" influence; either that or the "brown acid" noted elsewhere by one of the bretheren ;D), but the RD, being fretless, then its "Mellow-time"...
Uwe's said it before about the Precision - it is a tried and tested formula - if it ain't broke...
ps - still don't and never have owned one... ;D
pps - get the soundman to put the effects in later, where you have the opportunity - for everyone else it's "blueray" v "Ipod" - on a busy stage, the audience won't know the difference...
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Have there been any worthwhile advances in bass technology in the last 40 years?
Not much has changed from the principle of the P Bass as laid down by Leo. Most of today's basses still adhere to that scale and I wouldn't call things such as active electronics, piezo bridges, B strings, materials other than wood and headless creations groundbreaking advances. Most basses are still made of wood, have four strings and a headstock, are long scale and passive.
It's different with amplification I think, a small combo today can blow away a sixties or early seventies rig four times the size and 10 times the weight.
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If you are not able to get something that appoximates your sound (enough to fool 90% of the world population) over a run-of-the-mill bass and amp, you should seek counseling.
That may one of the best statements ever offered on this forum.
I continually marvel over the amount of fussing and obsessing musicians invest in things which aren't audible to anyone but them - and then, only in their minds.
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Entwistle sounds interesting on any bass. And some people sound boring on any bass. I'm still Uwe Hornung when I play a P Bass, I'm probably even a bit more agressive in my playing (or it comes out that way) than if I play a TBird (which has kind of a soothing influence on me). But the longer I play, the more I realize that gear - as long as it works and has a minimum quality - has only a miniscule part to do with how you sound and what you project.
Let's not end up like guitarists, those sorry creatures that believe their identity is determined by "their" guitar and "their" amp. The look of dread you see on guitarists' faces when you propose to them "well, you might play over someone else's amp, you know ..." always cracks me up. If you are not able to get something that appoximates your sound (enough to fool 90% of the world population) over a run-of-the-mill bass and amp, you should seek counseling.
Yes, I'm a nerdy Gibson bass collector, but I would hate to think that they define my playing. I can have as much fun on a Yamaha or Ibanez.
Uwe
This past weekend I went to Richmond to see Southern Culture On The Skids play for the millionth time. Rick Miller usually plays one of two or three guitars: an old Danelectro or a metalflake Gretsch. And you know, no matter which he's playing it sounds like RICK MILLER. To me, that is amazing and says volumes about his ability as a musician.
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That may one of the best statements ever offered on this forum.
I continually marvel over the amount of fussing and obsessing musicians invest in things which aren't audible to anyone but them - and then, only in their minds.
I agree with you Al, but I tend to fuss if my sound is less than about 75% of what I think it should be. Not because of how it sounds to the audience, or even so much how it sounds to me but mostly due to how it makes my strings feel to my fingers. If I haven't got a sound in that top 25% then the touch is below a level that I am happy to ignore. It becomes a distraction from playing freely and in doing so becomes hardwork as opposed to good fun.
These days for me its about fun :)
That said, I rarely have to fuss too much before my sound is good enough for me. (Bad sound engineers aside).
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I'm a heathen, Bret, et al... probably because I've never worked out of the bar circuit, and then the "low-end" (sorry Billy) of the market... The Hiwatt has everything on full, except the output volume... if I want a bit more treble, I use a pick; a rounder sound, the fingers; chords, mostly the nails, a-la-Clarke... none of the basses have any tone controls...
Works for me and each to their own... ;)
ps... the first (band-member) person who tells me how to play gets burnt at the stake... :vader:
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How and what you decide to play is what makes your sound Ken. Thankfully we are (mostly) all different.