The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Bass Zone => Topic started by: Granny Gremlin on May 21, 2014, 02:23:59 PM
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Currently I have TI flats on everything. This is mostly due to being able to get them for $40ish a set (about what any other brand cost in store here at the time) and stocking up, but the middishness is getting to me on some basses (they seem to get more middish once the break in too). Love them on the Victory, where they really bring out the bite, and will keep them there. Also pretty good on the RD Artist with active treble and bass controls the middishness balances out nicely here, but not so much anymore on my shorties (EB3 and especially the Triumph).
I need a new flatwound. I would like them to be nickel, but from my searching, my only other options seem to be Pyramid Golds (LOVE the geetar version on my archtop acoustic but the bass version is tres cher... still cheaper than TIs tho... gauges seem weird too, but you never know until you try them) and Rotosound 77 Monel Flats. Anybody know of any others?
I was considering LaBella Deep Talkers but a) they're steel and b) many reviews complain about the stiffness/feel (despite the general positive nods from some of you lot).
I plain refuse to use rounds (on a bass) - they destroy my fingers (hypersensitive due to eczema).
Anyway, anyone have any thoughts on these strings as compared to TIs?
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Allparts supposedly 45-105 . Cost me $5 a set, $10 retail plus shipping for non dealers. Here they are on my Grabber. Nice silk wrap and smooth tone.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/GRABBER/P1040608_zps36f1acb2.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/GRABBER/P1040608_zps36f1acb2.jpg.html)
http://www.allparts.com/ST-9046-000-45-105-Flat-Wound-Bass-Strings_p_3519.html
They mic out to 40-60-80-100
They are stainless which is theoretically better for someone with eczema (dermatitis)
http://dermnetnz.org/dermatitis/nickel-allergy.html
I can't see spending more for flatwounds, which I have on around a dozen basses from EBOs to Ps and Js. IMO there's really not much difference between the APs and Chromes or Fenders and they sound better than LaBella 760 FL.
I'd rather spend money replacing strings often on the basses I have strung with roundwounds.
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Labellas are my pick, and I understand they have a new low tension line in flats that just came out. I haven't tracked parts numbers yet.
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Ever try compression wounds? They are oval wraps that have some characteristics of rounds but smoother. Ghs makes the pressure wounds and compressors for Ken Smith. The alloy of the wraps is nickel iron. For flats I don't mind the tension of La Bellas but Rotos feel way more tense to me. There's also GHS precision flats and DR makes flats. I thought the DRs were way to thuddy and had a dead E string in the set I tried. Black Diamond and Ernie Ball fall into the chromes / Fender sound.
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I like chrome flats on fenders and the compression winds are great too.
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They are stainless which is theoretically better for someone with eczema (dermatitis)
http://dermnetnz.org/dermatitis/nickel-allergy.html
I have dishydrotic eczema (genetic) not the allergic kind (reactive); nickel is irrelevant in such a case (went through the patch testing to prove it before diagnosis), but thanks for the thought (even doctors assume allergic eczema - I had to go through 6 dematologists, who all gave up on trying to figure out what the cause was until I was finally sent to the city's top allergist who said I ain't allergic to squat).
Thanks for the allparts tip - at that price I might be willing to try stainless, just to see.
As for compression wound aka ground/pressure wound suggestions, I'm not really looking for more highs, just less mid bump, so I don't think that would necessarily be up my alley.
Hmm, I have heard good things about Chromes (mostly from Aussie Mark :P). They are stainless, but also easy to find anywhere in a hurry.
.... I don't know why I am being so indecisive about this.
Nobody ever used the Rotos?
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Nobody ever used the Rotos?
Yep - RS77S. Pictured here:
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/eb2mod/after1.jpg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/0chromium0/media/forums/eb2mod/after1.jpg.html)
They were on about a week.
These may have been okay, but I have had problems more than once with Rotos going dead on me quickly (can't recall if that was the case here; used to use 66s a lot). I'm admittedly the wrong guy to ask about flats, though. I've figured out that they are the kiss of death for me. Putting them on pretty much guarantees that I'll stop playing that bass. A lot of folks play the heck out of them, but they are just not my thing and I was still figuring that out back when this pic was taken. I will say that the ones I tried/liked best were the GHS Precision Flats on my Mangum-1. Tried Chromes too, but never got to the TIs or LaBellas.
I'm maybe a little strange in that I have saved literally every string/pack that has been changed, and I have these 77s back in their orig. package. Tried them on my Triumph too, and so I know they'd fit that. Anyway... very little play time and if for any reason you'd want them just to check out, they are yours for postage. Should be pretty cheap from here to Canada. LMK
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You know, I just might take you up on that. I would further propose a trade (I too have saved most of the strings I have taken off basses). There were some unidentified rounds on my Triumph when it came to me. I remember them sounding good on that bass (red silks IIRC); want em?
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If you're trying to avoid mids, you might want to steer clear of the Chromes. The roto 77s are probably more up your alley. They start out bright but mellow out lots when they break in.
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You know, I just might take you up on that. I would further propose a trade (I too have saved most of the strings I have taken off basses). There were some unidentified rounds on my Triumph when it came to me. I remember them sounding good on that bass (red silks IIRC); want em?
Yeah that's cool. Shoot me a message with your shipping info whenever, and I'll reply back with mine...
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Nice; PM sent.
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Hmm, I have heard good things about Chromes (mostly from Aussie Mark :P). They are stainless, but also easy to find anywhere in a hurry.
Nobody ever used the Rotos?
And, if you can't find Chromes, Ernie Ball Flatwounds are the exact same strings, only in different packaging.
My experience with Rotosound flats is limited - I have a light set on the Vox Wyman bass I bought - the strings came with it - they go well with that bass. Some years ago I bought a set of the Steve Harris Rotos, but the tension was way too high for me to get any decent tone out of them at all - they were like trying to play railway tracks.
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That's the same thing I hear about La Bellas. Not sure I'm too worried about high tension on a shorty. I actually find it easier to play fingerstyle with higher tension (especially a one-finger JJ hook)... though lately I'm mostly pickin.... kinda wanna change that on a few songs where I don't bust into chords at some point. Anyway, the price is right on the Roto's from Chromium so we'll see.
Interesting tip about Ernie and the D'Adds, Mark.
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And, if you can't find Chromes, Ernie Ball Flatwounds are the exact same strings, only in different packaging.
Are you sure about that? I have used both and remember them seeming to sound/feel/look different. Also Ernie Ball sells a 55-110 set that D'Addario doesn't.
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The La Bella 760M 1954 Original strings are big and stiff but sound great. (on a P bass anyway)
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The La Bella 760M 1954 Original strings are big and stiff but sound great. (on a P bass anyway)
You're right on both counts. (1) They sound great, and (2) they are so freakin' stiff that I only left mine on a bass for a couple of weeks.
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Any of you try those La Bellas on a shorty? Just wondering if the tension/stiffness is alleviated by the shorter scale length at all.
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I had the La Bella FL set on my EB3 before I switched back to chromes. They were very easy to play and bend, I took them off because I thought the E sounded dead. I'm starting to get tired of the chromes on the EB3 now though because the bridge pickup sounds more honky than the LaBs which were much more punchy. I might try the La Bellas again or maybe ghs precision flats. I think even the FM gauge La Bellas would be fine tension wise.
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Thanks.
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No sweat. I was thinking about GHS because I think Dave mentioned either he or a friend like them. I see that the precision flats are only offered in a somewhat lighter gauge than I would normally use on a short scale. Brite flats come in a nice .049 to .108 gauge. I might try those, smooth enough to baby those old frets but with a little more edge than just a pure flat.
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Are you sure about that? I have used both and remember them seeming to sound/feel/look different. Also Ernie Ball sells a 55-110 set that D'Addario doesn't.
They sound/feel/look identical to me - I've been using them both for around 15 years now. As for the 55-110 set, I haven't tried that set, so that might be a special gauge that Ernie Ball order from their string manufacturer (Ernie Ball don't make their own flats)
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So... the plot thickens. But first, thanks to Chromium for the string swap.
Anyway, turns out Roto flats are actually pretty high tension. I decided to try those on the EB3 (the TIs I had been using are a waste of money there), because it needed a setup (startring to buzz a bit). Then that rubber band neck showed me just how high tension th Rotos are; yeowzers. Anyway, string buzz got worse, tried everything, including raising the action to completely unplayable height; still buzzing (now worse and on both sides of the fretting hand). Took the strings off and tried to check the frets but I don't have a good enough straight edge. Anyway, long story short, I had to take it in for a refret (original frets on a 65; about time I suppose). The guy started checking the frets and looked puzzled for a bit until I explained that I don't play in 1st position much, mostly up higher just in front of the 12th fret - that was good for a LOL, but means that it has to be a full refret not a partial or a dressing.
I decided to try Pyramids on the Tirumph, I bought long scale because I always have (I have 2 of each scale, cut em short for shorties) and because it's a 105 E vs 100 on the shortie set. This may have been a bad idea, all strings mounted fine but the E went all:
(http://grannygremlin.com/images/nonwebpics/BustedPyramidE.jpg)
I'm getting a replacement from the store for free (good because they aint cheap), but I do need an opinion tiebreaker:
Store says that this shouldn't have happened despite the actual windings being on the post (due to long scale vs short). They're hand not machine made so duds happen/not as consistant. That would be my inclination too. Looks like the core stretched or was bunched up under the windings.... but they are round core vs the usual hex core so winding slippage is more likely (so they say).
Luthier (trying a new guy; don't know him) says that yes, this can happen with round core strings and I should use a shortie string so that the actual wrap windings don't start until after the tuning post.
What say youze? I just don't want to have to go exchange again; gotta set this girl set up to record (I will be doing some songs with the EB3 too, but not til the overdub stage - luthier dude said he could turn it around in a week, which is amazing to me).
One thing I will say about the Pyramids is (despite the hand-made inconsistency element almost scaring me off) they feel amazing. Tension is nice - not as floppy as the TIs but on the lower end. More supple and smoother than anything I have ever tried - even the TI's, which actually feel rough in comparison (I have an old used TI E on there now with the rest of the Pyramid set so I can jam on Wednesday). I really want to like these, they feel so nice on the hand (but also leave stains; looks like lead streaks - I hope that is just because they're fresh, but they probably use a purer nickel than anyone else, which is a softish metal). Rotos don't feel half as luxurious, downright spartan in comparison. TIs are a not-even-close second. I'll see how they sound tomorrow night - I hear that until they break in, the E and A sound dull and the D/G sound too bright, so one should be patient and wait till they even themselves out. Acoustically at home, this appears to be true.
As for those Rotos, will probably try them on the EB3 after the refret. If I can't get the action right due to the tension, I'll throw on the used TIs I just took off my Triumph and try the Rotos on the RD Artist - if that maple neck can't take em nothing can.
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Round core strings are usually locked to the core near both ends of the wound section. From your photo it looks like winding part of the wound portion around the post caused it to unlock. It doesn't always happen, I've done it a couple of times without incident, but it's always a possibility.
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Thanks Dave. I suppose I should take'r easier when I mount; usually I keep it pretty taut with one hand as I wind it onto the post with the other. That means it won't hold a tune for a damn for the first week, but so be it.
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Safer to buy the scale matched to the instrument. The only time I have ever broken a string it was done by winding the core of a longer scale string around a tuning post. I should also say that I bought them from the gent who's on TB and he sent me a replacement - which he did NOT have to do. Very kind of him.
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Yeah, the dude at the store just sent me another long scale E and said if it breaks again he'd send the shorty.
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On a short scale the La Bellas are nothing short of floppy, very comfortable to play. Jake, if your heart depends on it, send me an email with your address and I'll send you a pack of short scale Pyramids, flat or round at your choice, I gotta bunch.
You'll have to answer me a riddle though: Who were the the bass player and the drummer of Deep Purple Mk. 2 again? Practice makes perfect! Even punks.
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Thanks, very kind of you, but I'm covered by the store; good dudes. I am still trying out the Pyramids out (tho I love the geetar set on my archtop acoustic) so we'll see if I even take to them (jammin on 3 of 4 of the set for the first time tonight). ... also I don't even wanna look up that trivia for fear of it displacing some actually important knowledge in this haggard brain. :P
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Alas!, such renitence!
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Are you sure about that? I have used both and remember them seeming to sound/feel/look different. Also Ernie Ball sells a 55-110 set that D'Addario doesn't.
I know I'm a little late with this, but Ernie Ball has three different gauges of flatwounds: Group I, Group II, and Group III; don't remember the individual string gauge breakdowns because I rarely change strings, but IIRC, the higher the number, the larger the overall gauges. I've never used D'Addario Chromes, but I have several basses strung with EB flats and the midrange brashness goes away once they're broken in, though they always have a snarl that you would not expect from flats. They do a very good job of making Fender style basses sound more 'Gibsonish.' They're what I have on my Epi LP Standard with the Fralin TB pickups, and I have to say that combination actually sounds very TB'ish with a bigger bottom. Even with the tone knob rolled all the way back, where I keep it mostly, there is a wonderful snarl without honk. My only short scale is an SX 3/4 Jazz clone, but it sounds so good with the dead roundwounds that came on it, I've never changed them. I've always been curious about Pyramids because I love McCartney's sound, but having played a few violin basses, including an old Hofner, and IMO, it's more the bass than the strings and the price is too much for me.
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I can't find a huge magic with Pyramids, they are fine strings, but so are the ones from 20+ other brands.
In my book, the only strings that are really different-different-different from all the rest are Thomastiks - whether you like that or not is however entirely a matter of taste.
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Well, at jam last night they felt awesome. The tension change made me a bit clumsier than usual, but I think I like it. They seem more focussed than TIs, but they are still fresh - so could just be extra top end (even the A vs what I'd heard - never trust the internet/talkbass). Seem to have a leaner bottom than the TIs as well but we'll see about that when they break in..... also somehow, lower output.
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Any of you try those La Bellas on a shorty? Just wondering if the tension/stiffness is alleviated by the shorter scale length at all.
I put a set of LaBella flats on my Danelectro Longhorn and it's now an amazing sounding little bass. Elderly Instruments had them for a killer price a couple of months ago and I bought two sets (I think $49 to both with free shipping).
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So I got the refret back on Friday. Amazing that it was done earlier than they said it would (Thursday, just couldn't get out there). All looks well, I asked for narrower frets so there's a few chips in the fretboard around 2 frets from where the original ones dug in a bit too much, but a great job otherwise; nicely dressed and polished.
Anyway, threw the Rotos on and no good. E string has a weird vibration (I thought something was loose in the control cavity) and unless I mashed down as hard as I could with my fretting hand and got my fingers perfectly placed, there was way too much fret noise (especially as you release). Suspecting that this was due to the high action (bridge can't go any lower, old neck reset not helping) + higher string tension, I changed the Rotos out for an old set of TIs, and there's my girl! Not quite buttah; but that's not possible on this ole girl.
I'll try the Rotos on the RD; being the eldest of the herd, Lucy appears to need a lower tension string or she starts complaining.
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FYI guys, long scale Pyramids (at least the E) won't work on shorties; when the actual proper wrap (after the silk ends) goes around the post once it splays and snaps the core somehow. Happened a second time with the replacement E but all was fine with the shortie they sent me after that.
BTW, Uwe (or anyone else) would you mind confirming that the Pyramid long scales have light purple silks vs dark green on the shorties?
I had to loosen the truss rod all the way; could just be the thinner E string vs the TIs but the tension is lower, which I did not think possible. Think I was able to get the action down a bit lower than before too.
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BTW, Uwe (or anyone else) would you mind confirming that the Pyramid long scales have light purple silks vs dark green on the shorties?
I don't know about the long scale Pyramids, but the shorties are definitely dark green.
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I don't know about the shorties, but the long scale silks on the set I had were light purple. That's been over 10 years ago though.
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That's good enuf for me; thanks fellas.
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I'v never had long scale Pyramids, but the shorties are green thread.
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I don't know about the shorties, but the long scale silks on the set I had were light purple. That's been over 10 years ago though.
I have long suspected the 40-year-old strings on my P-bass are Pyramids, as that seemed the best fit to the responses I got when I asked a similar question on TB. Here's a shot....Dave, are these similar to yours? These strings have lasted awfully well!
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/P9170318.jpg)
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Yeah, those look like my longscale Pyramids. I was just surprised when the shortie was a different colour.
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Well, a brand of flatwound string that was installed in 1972 and still sounds good is a pretty nice thing to know about!
Thanks!
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For the price they better sound good after a few decades! :P
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For the price they better sound good after a few decades! :P
No kidding! I'd have tried them on other basses but for the price. It also happens that I like Labella Deep Talkin' flats, which makes me more reluctant to shell out for the Pyramids.
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I have long suspected the 40-year-old strings on my P-bass are Pyramids, as that seemed the best fit to the responses I got when I asked a similar question on TB. Here's a shot....Dave, are these similar to yours? These strings have lasted awfully well!
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/P9170318.jpg)
Yes, as best as I can remember.
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Yep, the long scale Pyramids from that era had blue wrap. I bought a set for my Gibson LP Sig several years ago and If I recall they were Purple but cannot confirm at the moment because mine is in Japan. GHS long scales flats are purple as well.
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As I remember, the GHS Precision Flats had darker purple silks than the Pyramids.