The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Bass Zone => Topic started by: Pekka on November 13, 2012, 03:09:58 AM
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My favourite was always "Easy Money" from Zurich 11/15/1973 but I think this is even better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQDvCTRPAa0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQDvCTRPAa0&feature=related)
It's a soundboard recording that's not properly mixed but at least we can hear the bass in it's monstrous glory.
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Amen - Lark's Tongue is one of those songs responsible for me picking up my first bass.
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When I saw him with UK this year, his bass sound (playing either a black Victory or a white Zon) wasn't really much different. With Asia, his bass sound is a little more subdued, but still pretty crisp. In the mid-sventies, he was very much perceived as a musican's musician bassist, Bill Bruford once said that at the time Wetton's bass playing was seen as the benchmark of cool.
It's ironic that in those days of his career, Wetton always felt that the singer/songwriter in him was eclipsed in his perception by other musicians by his bass playing about which, he says, he never gave much thought because it came largely intuitive to him. He was not a great rehearser at all.
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didn't you use this 'intuitive' angle with someone else. maybe lemmy or lynott.
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Lemmy - at least in his style today - is too much a one trick pony to be called intuitive, Phyl Lynott doesn't sound intuitive to me at all, I think he is a "learner". Nothing wrong with that. I'm a learner too.
I met John Wetton backstage with the other Asia guys two years ago (a rock journo I know took me) and Wetton is one of those people who have probably forgotten more about his bass playing than other people will ever learn. He doesn't make a big thing out of it and is very modest about his capabilities ("I guess you could have called me a good bass player in the seventies, but not now, I even have to gaffa the pick to my hand nowadays"). His carpal tunnel syndrome gives him issues and he says that his bass playing today comes - if at all - third after songwriting and singing. He's not a gear guy at all, said he plays the black Victory "when I want to play a black bass" and the Zon "when I want to play a white bass, I have ying and yang days, the Zon is more comfortable to play though so it gets out more often ...". He said nice things about Uriah Heep and Wishbone Ash ("I hope they both still do well."). And when someone from the bystanders (his tour manager who also worked for Uriah Heep) cracked that he (Wetton) joined Heep "just for the money", Wetton was adamant: "That's not true!!! I think Roxy even paid better, but the people in Heep were genuinely nicer (Eddie Jobson has said the same thing about his experience in Roxy Music) and I wanted to play harder music again. Return to Fantasy is a good album." And when I said that I liked his walking bass on that track he seemed genuinely pleased and ever the polite Englishman even said thank you. :)
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He played his new black Zon exclusively when I saw UK in May. Through an SVT head driving a 410 and 115. The tone wasn't much to talk about. Not bad by any means, but it had no "signature" like the old P-bass through Hiwatts or Marshalls that he used to have. I thought his tone on the first Asia album was still the classic crunchy P-bass from the 70s, maybe softened up a hair to fit the material better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v46TMN1j8Jw
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He played his new black Zon exclusively when I saw UK in May. Through an SVT head driving a 410 and 115. The tone wasn't much to talk about. Not bad by any means, but it had no "signature" like the old P-bass through Hiwatts or Marshalls that he used to have. I thought his tone on the first Asia album was still the classic crunchy P-bass from the 70s, maybe softened up a hair to fit the material better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v46TMN1j8Jw
That could already be a Victory on the debut. I asked the rock journo (who took me backstage) to find that out for us as he prepared the liner notes for the upcoming release of the 30th Anniversary remaster of Asia's debut and has interviewed Wetton many times. Hope he thought about it!
Did Wetton already play a Victory in the Heat of the Moment vid? I don't remember, he certainly had it on the tour and in later videos.
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When I saw the original lineup of Asia a year or so ago Wetton played his black Victory the whole show.
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UK albums sound like he used his black maple neck Jazz Bass and on stage he played the '61 P-bass until a black Ibanez Roadster RS800 came along.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cxWPw1O7sjM#t=241s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cxWPw1O7sjM#t=241s)
Jazz Bass can also be heard on rehearsals for Fripp's "Exposure" albums, John helped Robert out and rehearsed songs with Narada Michael Walden on drums. DGM live have the rehearsals available as a download. The sound isn't very good but what a noise that trio make!
Wetton's singer/songwriter stuff isn't for my taste (can't stand Asia and his first solo "Caught In A Crossfire" is horrible) but 1972-1974 Crimso is the best band in the world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1CMwfnHGUw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1CMwfnHGUw&feature=related)
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You'd break his heart with that statement! He's been trying to break out of that "hell of a bass player"-mold since the early seventies. A bit like Andy Fraser who didn't want to be "reduced" to just bass playing either. That King Crimson Red album contains some of the most excruciatingly difficult to find entertaining music ever! :mrgreen: Even proggies have issues with it. UK played one track of it on the recent reunion tour and even by the not so easily digestible UK music standards that track stuck out like a sore thumb and went over the heads of most of the audience.
But I admire you for "understanding" Red. :mrgreen:
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When I saw the original lineup of Asia a year or so ago Wetton played his black Victory the whole show.
you need this, Denis
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gibson-Victory-Bass-Baked-Enamel-Headstock-pin-Made-of-Metal-Super-Detail-/160885613770?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item257587a4ca
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Red is my favorite pre-80 Crimson album. I like the three early 80's releases best overall. Those were really my introduction to KC.
He used the white P all night when I saw the first Asia tour. Poplar Creek, Hoffman Estates (Chicago), IL, 1982. I was 18 with a gorgeous blond who is now my wife. ;D
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Red is my favorite pre-80 Crimson album. I like the three early 80's releases best overall. Those were really my introduction to KC.
He used the white P all night when I saw the first Asia tour. Poplar Creek, Hoffman Estates (Chicago), IL, 1982. I was 18 with a gorgeous blond who is now my wife. ;D
Well, I'm going to be the heretic in the bunch. My favorite Crimson album is the very last studio release, The Power To Believe. I look at it as a culmination of all they did before. Second in line has to be Lark's Tongue in Aspic, for it's stark and brutal passages (LTIA pt 1 opens with a riff more vicious than any Black Sabbath), and some very intense dynamics. I even like Beat, with the almost hit, "Heartbeat". So there...
Red does have some nice moments, but it's a little hard to swallow at times. "One More Red Nightmare" does have some cleverly hidden Beatlesque chords, though.
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"I was 18 with a gorgeous blond who is now my wife ..."
Do you remember when we used to dance
And incidents arose from circumstance
One thing led to another we were young
And we would scream together songs unsung
It was the heeeeeeeeeeeat of the mooooooooo-ment
Telling me what my heart meant
Heeeeeeat of the mooooooo-ment!
How romantic! That made my day.
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Back in the late 70's a friend played me a live version of 21st Century Schizoid Man and the tone just blew my mind. Not sure if it was the USA record. I do know it was Wetton though.
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I have to say that USA is my favorite album, with Red a close second, then Discipline and Larks' Tongues in Aspic, then maybe In the Court of the Crimson King. I seem to remember that they deleted USA because it was deemed inferior quality - I never understood that. The LTIA Pt. 2 opener is astounding, as is the improvised instrumental "Asbury Park." This is my personal favorite John Wetton sound, and may even rank as one of my favorite bass sounds period.
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For those who stopped listening in the '80s. A true heretic, this line-up is awesome, and no Levin/Bruford.
Typical Fripp obsession with percussion, you have to wade through the first 1:40 to the meat of the song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RUsaX1CA_Q
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That King Crimson Red album contains some of the most excruciatingly difficult to find entertaining music ever! :mrgreen: Even proggies have issues with it. UK played one track of it on the recent reunion tour and even by the not so easily digestible UK music standards that track stuck out like a sore thumb and went over the heads of most of the audience.
I disagree. "Red" is usually the favourite amongst proggies and the only "excruciatingly difficult" track is the live impro "Providence". "Three Of A Perfect Pair" is a much more difficult album as a whole with those nowhere going improvisations.
My fav Crimso albums besides the Wetton trio of "Larks'-Starless-Red" are "Discipline", "Islands" and "Power To Believe". Of course there's no bad King Crimson album.:)
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I have to say that USA is my favorite album, with Red a close second, then Discipline and Larks' Tongues in Aspic, then maybe In the Court of the Crimson King. I seem to remember that they deleted USA because it was deemed inferior quality - I never understood that. The LTIA Pt. 2 opener is astounding, as is the improvised instrumental "Asbury Park." This is my personal favorite John Wetton sound, and may even rank as one of my favorite bass sounds period.
"USA" has been released on cd with two bonus tracks and the gigs that it's songs have been selected from are available too. 6/28/1974 Asbury park is available as a download or a Collector's Club cd but a best way to get it is as a 2CD package that includes "Live In Mainz 1974" as a second CD.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51vnCEi4ePL._SL500_SS500_.jpg)
The Mainz' gig is superb and it contains probably the best version of "Doctor Diamond" which was never recorded in studio.
Their penultimate gig in Providence 6/30/1974 is available as a part of a 4cd box "The Great Deceiver 1973-1974" that contains great live stuff.
Needless to say that I own all of those and then some... :mrgreen:
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Crimson is a band I kind of gave up on a long way back...I need to pick up a couple of their albums and try again.
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I disagree. "Red" is usually the favourite amongst proggies and the only "excruciatingly difficult" track is the live impro "Providence". "Three Of A Perfect Pair" is a much more difficult album as a whole with those nowhere going improvisations.
My fav Crimso albums besides the Wetton trio of "Larks'-Starless-Red" are "Discipline", "Islands" and "Power To Believe". Of course there's no bad King Crimson album.:)
I finally put on Three of a Perfect Pair a couple weeks back. My son got it for me, but I've never listened to it. It's really difficult to appreciate, even as a diehard Crimhead. It was so painful, I didn't make it even halfway through. Earthbound was easier to listen to than that. :mrgreen:
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discipline seems to be the dividing point for fans. i am definetly on the pre discipline side. i can't begin to listen to the other stuff.
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How romantic! That made my day.
Ha ha!
Cool seeing everyone's differing opinions on KC. They're all over the map, that's for sure. I really, really loved Discipline and Three of a Perfect Pair, along with Beat in third place. That stuff influenced me to a fault. I was DETERMINED to keep prog alive in the 80s. LOL! KC, Rush, and Missing Persons....
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Of all the classic prog bands, KC is the one least going out of its way to be endearing to the casual listener. You might like that attitude or find it grating. I can listen to that stuff once in a while, but one album at a time please. Even ELP is mostly pop music in comparison. I have the KC boxed sets from a few years back.
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I'm guessing that there are a few Crimheads here, so here's the trivia question for the day - when KC resurfaced in 1981, what was the intended line-up, and the name of the band?
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I finally put on Three of a Perfect Pair a couple weeks back. My son got it for me, but I've never listened to it. It's really difficult to appreciate, even as a diehard Crimhead. It was so painful, I didn't make it even halfway through. Earthbound was easier to listen to than that. :mrgreen:
I like the album but it isn't as good as "Discipline" or "Beat". The title track is great and "Sleepless" is a classic, the best dance song they ever did!:)
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I'm guessing that there are a few Crimheads here, so here's the trivia question for the day - when KC resurfaced in 1981, what was the intended line-up, and the name of the band?
Hmmm, the name they used for a while was Discipline but I thought the line up was always intended as Fripp/Bruford/Belew/Levin. Jeff Berlin did some rehearsals with Bruford and Fripp but didn't work out and they were even plans for a band featuring Fripp & Levin with Jerry Marotta on drums and Daryl Hall on vocals but both of these happened in 1980.
Daryl Hall may raise some eyebrows for the uninitiated but I advise anyone in doubt to listen to "Exposure" and his own "Sacred Songs" that was produced by Fripp. "Exposure" has some stuff that continues almost straight from "Red", how about this nugget with a power trio of Fripp, Narada and Levin?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeRJQ8T4r98 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeRJQ8T4r98)
I love Levin's sound when he was using a P-Bass.
This is Hall/Fripp/Levin and Phil Collins on drums:
http://youtu.be/eeRJQ8T4r98 (http://youtu.be/eeRJQ8T4r98)
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Hmmm, the name they used for a while was Discipline but I thought the line up was always intended as Fripp/Bruford/Belew/Levin. Jeff Berlin did some rehearsals with Bruford and Fripp but didn't work out and they were even plans for a band featuring Fripp & Levin with Jerry Marotta on drums and Daryl Hall on vocals but both of these happened in 1980.
Daryl Hall may raise some eyebrows for the uninitiated but I advise anyone in doubt to listen to "Exposure" and his own "Sacred Songs" that was produced by Fripp. "Exposure" has some stuff that continues almost straight from "Red", how about this nugget with a power trio of Fripp, Narada and Levin?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeRJQ8T4r98 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeRJQ8T4r98)
I love Levin's sound when he was using a P-Bass.
This is Hall/Fripp/Levin and Phil Collins on drums:
http://youtu.be/eeRJQ8T4r98 (http://youtu.be/eeRJQ8T4r98)
That was the intended line-up before Fripp decided to keep the KC franchise going. I don't remember why it never came to fruition. And I can't agree with you more on Sacred Songs. It's a great collaboration that sounds quite removed from both Hall and Fripp. The CD has a couple bonus tracks from Exposure. Like this blistering little piece (wait for 1:15).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhCtME6J_lI
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That was the intended line-up before Fripp decided to keep the KC franchise going. I don't remember why it never came to fruition. And I can't agree with you more on Sacred Songs. It's a great collaboration that sounds quite removed from both Hall and Fripp.
"Sacred Songs" was supposed to be released in 1977 but RCA was against it 'cause it was too different from Mr. Hall's day job. It was eventually released in 1980. Daryl also sang a lot more numbers on "Exposure" that were eventually replaced by Joanna Walton and Peter Hammill for the same reasons. I bet Daryl's management didn't jump for joy when heard about his plans to start a band with Fripp. :mrgreen:
2CD edition of "Exposure" has the hall sung versions restored along with the originals. Hall does a great job on "Exposure" (original vinyl has Joanna Walton) and also on "Chicago" (Hammill on vinyl) but Hammill's version of "Disengage" can't be topped. Talk about manic!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE9F5HvIkRQ&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE9F5HvIkRQ&feature=youtu.be)
Probably not for Uwe... ;)
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Red is one of my KC favs, maybe because Wetton's sound there reminds me of the sound of my first "live rig" that is a small 30 watt marshall guitar amp with full on overdrive, struggling to be heard over an overzealous drummer. No luck ofcourse, but the amp survived! :P
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"Probably not for Uwe..."
Why? Because of the chord changes? Naw, in prog or jazz rock I don't mind that, possibly because it is done better and with more thought than in grunge. That Fripp track sounds quintessentially quaint and British to me - I like it!
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Fripp is both quaint and British.
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It only took them 73 years to finally defeat us, and ne'er a shot fired for 67 o' 'em... ;D
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"Probably not for Uwe..."
Why? Because of the chord changes? Naw, in prog or jazz rock I don't mind that, possibly because it is done better and with more thought than in grunge. That Fripp track sounds quintessentially quaint and British to me - I like it!
Since you didn't like "Red" I thought you don't like this either. "Exposure" is a great album 'cause in addition to great players and singers and Fripp's extraordinary and eclectic songs it has the best version of Peter Gabriel's "Here Comes The Flood".
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I didn't say I disliked Red!!!! I don't, it's just demanding to listen to. I have the two Boxed Sets of KC that came out a few years back. And whenever Edith is not around I sometimes listen to them! :mrgreen: With Edith around, it takes about 30 seconds and she asks "what kind of band ist that?", which is never a good start for a conversation with her as it is usually followed by (dis)qualifying statements and her unproven medical theory that "some music can give headaches". :-X
Kind of like when my father would ask my mom at dinner attempting his offhandish best: "Is that a new recipe you tried?" And she would immediately stiffen and say: "Yes, why don't you say outright that you don't like it!" :mrgreen:
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2q32CqCc2iM/TB41o5U4tgI/AAAAAAAAAAU/HSq0ET7c8WU/s640/female_brain.gif)
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:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: