The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Other Bass Brands => Topic started by: Basvarken on August 07, 2009, 04:16:09 AM
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Finally scored one last night!
After years of gassing for those.
They don't pop up very often on Ebay and if they do they're usually way out of my league price wise.
This one needs some serious TLC, but I'm quite sure it will be a most enjoyable bass after that.
The most structural issue is a badly executed neck repair, that needs to be redone.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/23/!B(gVJ)g!Wk~$(KGrHgoH-DgEjlLl0b,6BKclM(rHo!~~_12.JPG)
I'm pretty psyched!
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Thats one damn beauty. Congrats Rob. Are those the old Guild Pickups that blackstar are reproducing?
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Yes, Fred Hammon's DarkStars are built as a replacement for these.
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I wish I still had mine. I had a semi-hollow body version in black that was dead mint. I paid $225 for it in 1979. It was my "Ronnie Lane" bass for "Every Picture Tells A Story".
Nice score!
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Thats one damn beauty. Cograts Rob. Are those the old Guild Pickups that blackstar are reproducing?
The Darkstars are reproductions of the earlier Guild single coil made by Hagstrom. These are the later Guild humbuckers.
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Yes, Fred Hammon's DarkStars are built as a replacement for these.
You should give those sludgebuckers a chance first, though. Great for melt-your-face-thru-an-overdriven-tube-amp blues/rock sound! There heavy on the mids (mine metered out ~33K), but not as much sub-bass as a mudbucker.
The Darkstars sound and respond completely different, with more of a broadband frequency response. So you'll really need two Guilds in the long run! ;D
Congrats- nice bass!
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Dang, that looks MEGA-cool!
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You should give those sludgebuckers a chance first, though.
I am not planning on putting DarkStars in. I like the M-85 sound just the way it is.
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I am not planning on putting DarkStars in. I like the M-85 sound just the way it is.
BRAVO!!!! Good choice.
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Nice! Looks a lot like mine:
(http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/3614/fretlessguildfull1.jpg)
Looks like yours has one more knob than mine - didn't they add a master volume or something? Mine is early, looks to be a '71 or so.
I love the "sludgebucker" term - is that recent?
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Nice score. I always had a thing for those basses, my favorite guild.
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I love the "sludgebucker" term - is that recent?
I thought I remember that as a term-of-not-so-much-endearment for those pickups at the old forum.
I kinda wish I hadn't sold the ones from my bass. My plan was to get a 70s Starfire, move the DSs to that, and put sludgebuckers back in the JS-II. Years later, though, I find my Starfire GAS fading...
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IIRC Fred called them ho-humbuckers. To each his own, I'm not a huge fan but I do like the sound of them better than Dark Stars. YMMV.
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My M-85 wasn't muddy at all. It had a great warm sound. In a large room, you don't want to boost the lows. I usually keep the deep lows suppressed a little, and favor the low mids, then boost the volume a little. Brian Rome (McCartney) gets a great live sound from his.
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I saw The Knack way back when and Nigel was playing one but it had DiMarzio Model G replacements. Sounded good too. I had a black one I bought in the late 1980's for $200. Someone had replaced the original bridge with a Badass I.
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Nice score! I like the old Guilds. I have a '73 JS II which is the same bass, but with a solid SG style body. I like it the way it is - bone stock. Massive lows, and nice thumpy thump with a pic. I string it with TI flats.
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Great score, Rob! I'm officially jealous, but I know I can hold her once:) Great man!!
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i don't have a Guild but ihave those "Sludgebucker" pups in my Gibson Ripper. they rule.
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Funny... I never heard the term sludgebuckers until this thread. Just googled it and the only references are by Chromium and Skate Rat on other forums. Way to go, guys! ;D
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wow rob that's one heck of a wonderfull bass, I'm jealous
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IIRC Fred called them ho-humbuckers. To each his own, I'm not a huge fan but I do like the sound of them better than Dark Stars. YMMV.
Ho-humbuckers is funny ;D I forgot about that. They're far from ho-hum, but the DSs are a lot more responsive to dynamics in your playing - so that's probably why they called them that. DSs are not better, IMO, just completely different.
I remember the Guild pickups being nice and punchy thru the svt cabs.. like a medicine ball to the chest. For the rock/r&b live stuff, I usually go for a darker/warmer kinda grit - and those Guild pickups had it in spades.
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those pups are dirty,dirty dogs! they distort any amp! super powerful! but great thick dirty distortion, when you turn down they're way deep.dooooooooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! my plan is to get put a Peavey T-40 pup i have in the neck and put the other Sludgebucker in another ebony board Ripper along with a Mudbucker. the Toxic bass Sludge+Mud. but now i'm thinkin' Model G's in Bird covers.
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Can't wait to hear yours, Rob!
And sorry I don't visit this forum that often the last couple of weeks. I am very, very busy until the end of this month.
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Can't wait to hear it too myself.
But till this day it hasn't even been shipped... >:(
(I paid with PayPal the very same day I won the auction, six days ago now)
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Great looking bass Rob, congrats!
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I had a Hagstrom one years ago, and it was a lot of fun. I like yours, and hope the neck issues are nuthin.
I like Sludgebucker. Kind of unfair, as the 70s ones sounded ok to me, but I am game. So, lets call the 70s Tele Bass one the Dudbucker.
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The first time I saw the term mudbucker was from Steve Barr years ago and he was talking about the Tele Bass II, not the Gibson.
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Funny... I never heard the term sludgebuckers until this thread. Just googled it and the only references are by Chromium and Skate Rat on other forums. Way to go, guys! ;D
we're trend setters. what,you didn't know?
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Can't wait to hear it too myself.
But till this day it hasn't even been shipped... >:(
(I paid with PayPal the very same day I won the auction, six days ago now)
Is it here yet? ???
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No. Still no bass...
But it is on it's way.
It is now in process at Dutch Customs.
I bet it is going to arrive ten minutes after I've left for my belated summer holiday...
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Back in the pit, I referred to these things un-affectionately as Honkmasters.
DS
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Issie deral, Rob? Fancy to write a background story for the Vintage page of De Bassist? I'm sure you have read a lot about it!
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Nope... still no bass.
I could write about USPS and international shipping... :-[
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I could write about USPS and international shipping... :-[
So short scale basses can still get in under the new, shorter USPS shipping specs? That's good to know. Shipping a long scale bass internationally more than doubled for me last year when they cut the package length limit.
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I don't know George. I paid 175 dollar for shipping to The Lowlands.
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USPS won't even ship a Thunderbird sized box internationally anymore. Forty-six inches is as long as they'll go now. I'd love to be able to send a (long scale) bass to Europe for $175. Another reason not to fear the shorties, I guess! ;D
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At last. It's here.
I knew it had an old neck break coming loose again.
But the neck break is worse than I had hoped it would be.
There's a crack on the E-side of the neck that runs from the top down to the 9th fret. The seller did not make a picture from this side of the neck.
The other side shows a clean short crack that would have been easy to fix.
I am happy the bass is finally here. And slightly disappointed I won't be able to fix it myself.
I did have a worst case scenario in the back of my head. So now it's over to plan B: The luthier.
The M-85 fits my Hobbit family well. Lots of similarities. ;D
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Could the non disclosed crack be a new one that happened in shipping? If so, maybe the seller will do a partial refund to help defray the cost of repairs.
Just a thought...
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No the crack isn't fresh. It was there already. She just didn't take pics of that side of the neck...
The bass was sold "as is" so I do not expect a partial refund.
Or should I??
The bass came in with the strings tuned way down low. So there wasn't any tension on the neck
When I tried to tune it, the neck break began to open up a bit and I did not dare go any further.
I loosened the strings. Took them off.
The I gripped the neck break as firm as I could and wrapped wide paper tape (the stuff painters use) around the neck. Very tightly at the first two positions. Then I put the strings back on and cautiously brought them up to tension. I was able to tune the bass. And the neck crack stayed closed.
So I was able to give it a first test drive.
It sounds fantastic! Nice deep round tone.
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What a shame... at least you know what she'll sound like post luthier... Pics of the issue, Rob...? is it too much fo CA, or just not worth the risk...?
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That's too bad.
There's nothing wrong with selling something "as is" so long as you disclose known defects. I don't know what laws would apply in this case. In the US, you would probably prevail. Under the new eBay rules going into effect in a week or two, it would be even easier for you to press a valid claim.
At least it can be repired and will sound good when it's done.
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Haven't got my camera at home now.
Here are the (blurry) pics in the auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110419635648&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:1123
As you can see she did mention there's a formerly repaired crack coming loose. But the pics show only half of the damage.
I'll take it to a good luthier and see what he has to say about it.
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What would a good condition model have set you back, Rob...?
I suppose she was sort of "honest" in saying what she said, just conservative with it... but I guess you could politely negotiate the feedback (her first sale, and only 8 points)and a refund to cover repairs if you get the worst possible response... you know, the intake of breath through the teeth, combined with the slow shaking from side-to-side of the head, followed by an "oh dear me..." from your luthier...
"Caveat Emptor", to use Uwe's "home" language... :sad:
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What would a good condition model have set you back, Rob...?
A lot more Ken.
They don't show up that often. There's one for sale at Elderly for 1225 dollar. That is in a much better condition and with original HS case.
http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/55U-3775.htm (http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/55U-3775.htm)
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Glad you finally got the bass!
I thought their description of the Guild pups was interesting: "lower than low hovering cloud sound"
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Glad you finally got the bass!
I thought their description of the Guild pups was interesting: "lower than low hovering cloud sound"
Elderly describes the Gibson mudbucker as having a "low hovering cloud sound." That's what they're saying the Guilds are not, in some way. Not sure how. But I have no idea where they came up with that or what sound a low hovering cloud makes. ;D
Oh yeah, right, the cloud sounds like a mudbucker. ;)
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Good to hear it`s finally arrived, a real shame about the damage.
Hope the restoratation will not be too costly.
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Here's a beautiful one in very good condition!
3000 dollar starting bid...
M-85 II for sale on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Guild-M85-Bass_W0QQitemZ230380712970QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar?hash=item35a3c2b40a&_trksid=p4999.c0.m14#ht_500wt_1182)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/04/!BbGuJEg!2k~$(KGrHqUOKjkEq5UJorjkBKuZ9EBjUw~~_12.JPG)
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I was going to mention that bass, but thought that would be cruel considering the circumstances.
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Robby,
On Dutch BGF is a list of Luthiers in al provinces. Yeah, it's strange that a Dutchman translates 'provincies' in provinces to another Dutchman... Also some in Gelderland. Sorry guys: Moneydercountry.
And I can always recommend Piet Visser. Sorry: Pete Fisher. He lives in Egmond aan Zee. Sorry: Harrowmouth by the Sea. I can always take it for you.
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Thanx Chris. Already knew about that list.
@ Kungfusherriff:
No problem. The neck break isn't that severe and it isn't going to set me back more than I anticipated.
I contacted two respected luthiers. Both say it is no big deal.
I'm going to have it fixed by Dick Dijkman, who is a real professional luthier.
http://www.dickdijkman-guitardesign.com
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Dick Dijkman must be good to be authorized repairman for that many brands.
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Dick Dijkman is quite famous, but his name must sound strange in English.
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I shouldn't even recall that I paid $225 for my mint semi-hollow body M-85 back in 1979.
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Brought the M-85 II to Dick Dijkman today.
He said it's a nice long fracture that can be repaired quite well.
Because the fracture had already been repaired once (and come loose obviously) he isn't going to use normal titebond. He is going to use some sort of cyanide glue.
In about three weeks I can pick the bass up again.
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Good news, Rob! Let me touch Sheryl once, when she's fit again!
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Dick Dijkman is quite famous, but his name must sound strange in English.
I'm just the people who named the characters in "Anchorman" hadn't heard of him.
Reminds me of the Python character named "Biggus Dickus".
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"I've got a fwiend in Wome called Biguth Dikuth..."
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"I am a shrubber."
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Shoorly not Wodger the Shwubber...?
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"Ni!"
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"It is truly a shame, that an old bass-player..."
"I'm no old..."
"... can-not pass safely through a forum without someone going 'NI!'."
"I'm getting better... cough..."
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"If she weighs the same as a duck.....?"
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Shoorly not Wodger the Shwubber...?
You're confusing Python movies. That's Roger the Shrubber, not to be confused with "Wewease Woger?"
Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say Ni at will to old ladies.
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Oh, what sad times are these when there's going to be a Python reunion in Manhattan next week and I can't go. Anyone here going?
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I wonder if they'll have a cardboard cutout of Graham Chapman like they did at an earlier reunion.
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I think they turned him into a newt.
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Saw them in an interview years ago where they had brought Graham out in an urn, and "accidentally" knocked it over ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox9bcx_LZMs
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"I got better..."
How perfectly Python...
No confusion, Dave, just grist for the mill...
"I 'eard there was truble at t' Outpost, but didn't expect Graham Chapman to get a kickin..." ;D
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Saw them in an interview years ago where they had brought Graham out in an urn, and "accidentally" knocked it over ;D
Poor Graham got swept up in the moment. :o ;)
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At least he's still performing on stage!!!
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Hold on now a cotton pickin' moment they're Dutch boay... did you just say "cyanide"...? Ah thought y'all waz fixin' that bass, not fixin' t' kill it... ;D
"Cyanide glue"...? not heard of that before; does not sound like something an amateur plays with... or is it just my lack of industry knowledge...? (being a veggie bordering on vegan does present all sorts of issues with gluey stuff... :o)
(how's that for neatly bringing us back on thread... ALBATROSS...!)
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Cyanide glue = cyanoacrylate glue = superglue
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Typical... you let amateurs loose with a router and some titebond, and what do you get... :P (ta Dave)
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Man I laughed my a## off? It brought me back to my yute!
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Looking forward to seeing the bass repaired. I too GAS'd for an M-85 for years before I finally found a beat up one I could afford in Canada (I'm in the US), went through all the shipping issues and got it. I did a bunch of mods, including a strip and refin (it really was trashed), new bridge (it had a Badass when it arrived) and Dark Stars. It wound up pretty good:
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/bassman10096/P1010375.jpg)
Looking forward to pix of yours. Best luck.
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Looks v 8) to me...
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I will post pics when I get it back, repeaired and all.
I discussed a possible refin with the luthier. But he's rather not do it because it will lose all the mojo that this has gathered in 35 years.
Which means I've got some polishing to do when it returns...
(http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/110/l_b6950de16adb4af78e0a767f96bc5eed.jpg)
And I need a genuine Guild volume knob...
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What a beaut! :o
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That doesn't look reliced, just used appropriately. I think I'd just spiff it up and play it. I certainly wouldn't refin that one.
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No refin!
I believe Hans Moust has a lot of spare parts, but I guess you've already checked him?
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That doesn't look reliced, just used appropriately. I think I'd just spiff it up and play it. I certainly wouldn't refin that one.
+1 I wouldn't do anything but clean an polish it. I refinned mine because the finish was truly, ugly trashed. Yours looks like a distinguished warrior. Pretty bass.
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Bad news:
just got a phone call from the luthier.
He thought he had it fixed, but when he restringed it and brought the strings up to tension the cracks opened up again.
The two component glue just won't hold in the places where it has been glued before.
And to make it worse, the trussrod appears to be bent/damaged.
The neck starts twisting when the trussrod is fastened.
It looks like it is going to need a new neck...
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Ow, that IS bad news... :-[
Sorry to hear that.
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Ouch, indeed. :sad:
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Too bad. There may be another glue that would hold, but that won't be a solution if the truss rod is damaged.
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Bummer... :sad:
Fender-Guild...? Guild-Son...? If you have to go down that road, how hard will it be to trace a neck, or can your lu' make a "clone" for you...?
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how hard will it be to trace a neck?
impossible I'd say.
He'd have to make new one...
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Bad news:
just got a phone call from the luthier.
It looks like it is going to need a new neck...
That's not a complete disaster by any means.
Might check out MIMM forum for ideas from builders.
Rob
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I'm gonna be contrary and say I'd remove the fret board entirely, thoroughly cleaning all old glue from the neck surface and then replace the rod and glue down a new board. Why wouldn't that work? Why a new neck? I'd do whatever I could to save the original neck unless it was beyond repair or warped out of shape significantly without any rod tension.
If the fret board isn't fastened down entirely, wouldn't that explain why the neck twists with truss rod tension? I'm not trying to be overly argumentative, but I've saved a few crummy necks by replacing the rod and fret board.
The neck was so busted up on my 60's NR TB, I did just as I said. Replaced everything but the neck itself and it's a great bass now. Just a thought.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/drbassman/60s%20NR%20TB/100_0484.jpg)
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Thanx Doc.
The luthier too said not all is lost... yet.
And I did suggest replacing the fretboard to him too.
We'll see.
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Ahh, Bill... nothing like a few good words from the Doctor to ease the pain... ;)
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Check out http://letstalkguild.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15198 for video of a neck replacement on a Guild Starfire. The way the luthier in that video preserved the headstock face (w/the perloid inlaid logo) was interesting and would do a lot to keep the original feel of the instrument. The integration of an ebony laminate in the replacement neck would increase the fundamental frequencies and sustain in the bass's sound. Replacing the neck might suggest refinishing the body(?). Good luck. Keep us posted.
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Maybe he still has that old neck he took off that Starfire?
I'll shoot him an email
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And I need a genuine Guild volume knob...
That's the genuine Guild volume knob, the way they came from the factory.
DS
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That's the genuine Guild volume knob, the way they came from the factory.
DS
Yep, and they're as rare as hen's teeth...
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I think there's a set up on Ebay right now
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for a about a million dollars.
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Get BaCH to make you some... ;D
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I was looking for DeArmond knobs for my Starfire. The last set went for 39 dollars. I thought that was bad till I looked at the Guild ones.
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I was looking for DeArmond knobs for my Starfire. The last set went for 39 dollars. I thought that was bad till I looked at the Guild ones.
I have a full set of the clear Dearmond knobs from the 60's that I'd be willing to sell. intersted?
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DeArmond made guitars in the 60s? Are you sure? AFAIK they were just a pickup maker, and the first guitars under the DeArmond name were made in the late 90s after Fender bought Guild.
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DeArmond made guitars in the 60s? Are you sure? AFAIK they were just a pickup maker, and the first guitars under the DeArmond name were made in the late 90s after Fender bought Guild.
I have no idea! But I have a nice set of knobs I don't need right now.
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Have you got a picture of those?
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Yep, I'll post them tomorrow.
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No refin!
I believe Hans Moust has a lot of spare parts, but I guess you've already checked him?
What Chris said;
http://www.guitarchives.nl/guitarsgalore/parts.php?cid=18 (http://www.guitarchives.nl/guitarsgalore/parts.php?cid=18)
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He has them on his site like forever. And it always says sold out.
I contacted him about the neck break. But he says doesn't have the time (read: he doesn't feel like it...)
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I have a full set of the clear Dearmond knobs from the 60's that I'd be willing to sell. intersted?
Someone in the past added a master volume, so there's currently 5 matching black top hat knobs on it and they don't look wrong, just not totally authentic. It's also had a neck break and several dings, so not exactly a collector's item. I decided not to get obsessive about it. Thanks for the offer, though, I appreciate it.
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Like a phoenix from the flames:
(http://www.superfloor.net/guildm-85II.jpg)
After one failed attempt to glue the broken neck back together, Dick Dijkman radically broke the neck into pieces. So he could clean up the mess the former repairs had done. He removed all old glue remains.
Then the puzzle was sent to another luthier who has experience with epoxy glue.
He put the puzzle back together and put a very thin "brace" on the neck.
Then he sent it back to Dick Dijkman who refinned the neck.
The neck repair is only visible if you look closely. It feels fantastic. A nice thick neck, but not wide.
(http://www.superfloor.net/neckguild.jpg)
It plays really smooth!
Here in the living room it sounds nice and warm.
Can't wait to hear it in the band...
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I am delighted for you! The workmanship looks excellent, and that was a great investment to save a wonderful instrument. I hope it sounds super!
And I'm betting it has found a permanent home with you.
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Geez, what a great reapair job! I would swear it had never been touched! What a stunning bass. Now you have me searching for Guilds....
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Geez, what a great reapair job! I would swear it had never been touched! What a stunning bass. Now you have me searching for Guilds....
That's the helluvit. Someone turns up a beauty like that and it re-ignites the GAS in all of us!
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Yow! They did a great job on it.
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Excellent! We practically have twins! Nice work!
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Wow - congratulations, that came out great! I have to admit that deep down inside I was hoping that it would be a complete disaster so that maybe I could buy the truss rod cover and pickup selector switch, but you deserve it!
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Haha, if it's any consolation to you: the trussrod cover did not survive the operation.
The luthier had to make the trussrod cavity slightly longer. And for that reason he had to improvise the trussrod cover. So he glued a longer piece of plastic under the original trussrod cover to cover up the cavity.
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Wow! congrats and I'm emvious what a nice looking bass!
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Watching Macca's Back in the USA performance always reminds me why I loved my M-85. Brian Ray sounds great on his. Well done!
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Well then, a sigh of relief emanates from the "Hook of Holland"... ;D
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That came out nicely! Glad to see that the neck was repairable.
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got a '73 and I love it to pieces, ho-humbuckers and all. Recorded a couple tracks with it and it sounded great, nice warm vintage tones.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCqD055X8MQ&feature=related
Prescott Niles used one with The Knack. I think he removed the covers on his bass though. I can't tell on this video but I have a photo in an old Creem magazine somewhere........