The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Bass Zone => Topic started by: Rocker949 on March 08, 2009, 07:35:22 AM
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I've been looking through a book written by Greg Mooter called "Bass Player's Handbook" which I bought some time ago but which I'm now reading again. Mooter lists and describes what he considers the different categories of bassists. Most of these are self-explanatory:
1. Beginners.
2. Street Players
3. Technically Challenged Players
4. Forcers
5. Jazzers--Mooter describes a jazzer not as someone who just plays jazz but someone who has natural talent, can play almost anything they hear, and can fake their way through most situations. But Mooter says jazzers are stylistically restricted and should broaden their abilities to include other styles.
6. Rockers--This person is much like a jazzer, but also stylistically restricted.
7. Semi-Pros
8. Pros
Based on what I've seen on this board, I'd say probably quite a few people are at the pro level. Unfortunately, I think I may still be at the rocker level. However, even Mooter himself notes that it is better to not get hung up with categories too much. Just be honest with yourself and try to see where you fit in, then progress from there.
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What about 'The Fan'.
Someone who buys the same basses as his heroes, can't really play and is just in bands to have fun? Someone who's better in managing bands and writing about about it?
I think I'll fit in that one;)
Or:
'The Cross Dresser'
We have some 'guys' here who'll fit in that one.
And Uwe is a category in itself too, I guess?
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Amateur --
noun 1. a person who engages in a study, sport, or other activity for pleasure rather than for financial benefit or professional reasons. (Dictionary.com Unabridged)
In that sense, I'm an amateur. Even back when I was playing for money, it wasn't to make a living, or even to supplement my income. It was strictly for the love of it.
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this list needs work. for example you could put almost any other name in front of rocker or jazzer. like beginner rocker or semi pro jazzer. i'm an amateur according to above defintion as i think most off us would be. when i was gigging alot i never made enough money to make a difference. my goal now is to convice my son that there are things on a guitar called chords and you should play them occasionally.wank wank boing.! :P
some other catagories could be delusional and bedroom superstar. :mrgreen:
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I would classify myself as a Razzer.
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I've been looking through a book written by Greg Mooter called "Bass Player's Handbook" which I bought some time ago but which I'm now reading again. Mooter lists and describes what he considers the different categories of bassists. Most of these are self-explanatory:
1. Beginners.
2. Street Players
3. Technically Challenged Players
4. Forcers
5. Jazzers--Mooter describes a jazzer not as someone who just plays jazz but someone who has natural talent, can play almost anything they hear, and can fake their way through most situations. But Mooter says jazzers are stylistically restricted and should broaden their abilities to include other styles.
6. Rockers--This person is much like a jazzer, but also stylistically restricted.
7. Semi-Pros
8. Pros
Based on what I've seen on this board, I'd say probably quite a few people are at the pro level. Unfortunately, I think I may still be at the rocker level. However, even Mooter himself notes that it is better to not get hung up with categories too much. Just be honest with yourself and try to see where you fit in, then progress from there.
Hmmmm What is a Forcer according to Mooter? Some kind of rapist? lol
I'm trying to figure out how that might apply to a type of bassplayer. ???
Is that when you force your bandmates to play your songs & music cuz it's your P.A.?
If so, I reckon I fall into that category. hahaa
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Hmmmm What is a Forcer according to Mooter? Some kind of rapist? lol
I'm trying to figure out how that might apply to a type of bassplayer. ???
Is that when you force your bandmates to play your songs & music cuz it's your P.A.?
If so, I reckon I fall into that category. hahaa
That's hilarious. A forcer is someone who only knows how to play bass only by reading music. So they read music, but it sounds like it. When they play, you sometimes wonder if you're listening to a machine.
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Would, "Technically Challenged Player," be the guy who knida knows what' supposed to happen, but can't quite get the fingers to do it right every time?
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Mooter says a technically challenged player simply can't play very well. He can't get the feel or technique down and just doesn't know what he is doing. He may actually love playing but certainly could benefit from having a teacher closely supervise what he is trying to do.
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I don't know about that list. Where does it leave someone like me - who played orchestral upright, then took a 20+ year layoff, and who now can sight read (although rusty) and can play many things but only after a few rehearsals? I'm not the best at memorizing lines, and it takes me a few reps to commit something to memory.
I guess I'm somewhere in here...
2. Street Players
3. Technically Challenged Players
4. Forcers
If I were as high up as a Rocker, I'd be pretty happy. I can work my way through a blues jam, but I'm scrambling for every note and once I find a riff or progression that works, I deviate from it only cautiously.
Perhaps there are two types of people: those who categorize others, and those who don't.
Or MAYBE there are three types of people: those who categorize others, those who don't and those who cry BS on the whole idea!!!!
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I'm a hack!
I've listened to alot of the music you guys post..............There's an abundance of talant, I wish some of it would rub off on me ;)
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amateur hack rocker. I can hang in most situations but tend to keep things relatively simple to minimize the frequency of clams. after songs become ingrained, I usually stumble onto new runs/riffs/rhythms that are incorporated into the way I play the song. I wish I had taken more lessons and learned to read when I started playing, but I was too busy trying to be a rock star.
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amateur hack rocker. I can hang in most situations but tend to keep things relatively simple to minimize the frequency of clams. after songs become ingrained, I usually stumble onto new runs/riffs/rhythms that are incorporated into the way I play the song. I wish I had taken more lessons and learned to read when I started playing, but I was too busy trying to be a rock star.
That sort of sums it up for me too :)
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I will go along with that one too: Brilliant:)
And of course there's the: "As You All Know - know it all" type. A special breed.
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I'm not sure amateur is an apt description. I think hobbyist might be a better term for those of us who have been playing for many years, do get paid to play, but don't make a living doing it.
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amateur hack rocker. I can hang in most situations but tend to keep things relatively simple to minimize the frequency of clams. after songs become ingrained, I usually stumble onto new runs/riffs/rhythms that are incorporated into the way I play the song. I wish I had taken more lessons and learned to read when I started playing, but I was too busy trying to be a rock star.
I also fully relate to everything you have said here. It's as good or better than any of Mooter's terms.
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I'm not sure amateur is an apt description. I think hobbyist might be a better term for those of us who have been playing for many years, do get paid to play, but don't make a living doing it.
This will probably vary from one person to the next, but to me hobbyist has too much of a negative connotation. I'd rather be called an amateur than a hobbyist.
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how about we are all just bozos on this bus. thank you firesign threater. ;D
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how about we are all just bozos on this bus. thank you firesign threater. ;D
Ha. Don't crush that dwarf, hand me the pliers.
Civilization.....HOOOOoooo!
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I'm somewhere between a deli-platter and chip-dip .... but with Jazzer ambitions.
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hmm. i thought this thread would yield some interesting insights to the peolpe here. apparently there are alot of rose colored glasses out there.
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I'm with Ramone, Rob and Chris on this one. Nicely described Ramone.
I guess I did make a living for 10 years so I would fit into some "has been pro" category but my playing is not what I would call Pro.
The problem I have is that one part of me wants to say Bollocks to categorising and its all a load of crap. But Having put as much into it as I have over the years my ego kind of gets me sucked into validating my playing. :-[
As for you Miss Mark! Hack my arse .... um hang on a sec that came out wrong..... You Are no hack. We have all heard you play and I challange anyone here to refer to your playing as Hack playing. :P
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I was quite sincere about what I've heard of our forum member's talants, you guys are good, better than me...........plus I enjoy a certain amount of self deprecational humor.
If I compare in any way it's that I truly love what I get to do with my band, but again we all seem to love that alot too. :)
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I suspect that each of us is pretty darn listenable in his own way, but I am sure that many here are more versatile than I am. That's OK as long as we can play music that meets our needs.
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I would consider myself sort of a "has been that never actually was". Whew , that was a mouthful. It's kind of tough to say that with these rose colored glasses pinching my nose :)
Rick
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OK who hasn't posted in this thread?
Please pass these on to the next person in line :mrgreen:
(http://pornstarbabylon.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/rose-colored-glasses-dog.jpg?w=250&h=199)
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Where did you get that picture of me?? I thought I destroyed the negatives.
Rick
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me and my big, uh keyboard. :mrgreen:
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me and my big, uh keyboard. :mrgreen:
Actually, I thought you were pretty much on target. There is nothing tougher than trying to categorize yourself. Even when you're right, how do you REALLY know you're right? Thank God for rose colored glasses ;D
Rick
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I guess I'd be in "Dimensionally Challenged"... somewhere out on the "Time Coast"...
Gotta agree, Mark's pretty good... anyway, he's taller than me, he might hit back; just cos he wears a dress don't mean he might not pack-a-punch...
Dug into the "Gods" site so will offer an opinion at an appropriate point... Is there a "God Of Thunder" type of player...?
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Well, since I've been so welcomed on LBO, I'll chime in:
I'm a beginner. Picked it up about 3 years ago, and practice a few days a week for about an hour or so. It's all I have time for, unfortunately. On the plus side, it (the act of playing bass) as far exceeded my expectations and is one of the joys I have in my life. I don't read music, but I'm tenacious about trying to learn to play by ear. I took a half dozen lessons or so.
I really don't have any dreams of the next level, but I would love to, at least once, play bass along with some guys just having some fun and playing music together.
Ack
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I have no clue as to where I fit in...
I've been playing for over 20 years. Been in more bands than you've had hot dinners (not really) and never made much money out of any of them. I'm down to 1 band now and we put 100% of the money made into the band. None of us takes a dime and never have. I still play 98% original music and hate playing covers with a passion. I would never join a cover band even if I was offered a truckload of money to do so.
I play with a pick and hate using fingers except with my upright. Never had a lesson, can't read music, and play totally by ear. I don't play jazz and doubt I could. I enjoy every aspect of my playing and have no real desire to sound like anyone in particular...
??? ??? ???
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I've been trying to play along with Jack Bruce for the past few days. My conclusion is that I feel I have no choice but to downgrade myself to a "technically challenged" player. I had to put on a demo that some friends and I recorded last summer to remind myself that I'm even a bass player at all. In all honesty, although I've been playing for quite a long time, I'm not sure if I've ever been so discouraged. I wish I were joking or exaggerating, but unfortunately I'm not.
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Is a Pro someone who has studied to an accredited point of playing and understanding their instrument, done an accepted "internship" in the industry and then makes their livelihood by playing their instrument?
or
Is a Pro someone who can play Jazz thereby giving them the apparent credibility that they can play all other "Lesser" forms of music regardless of weather or not they can earn a living from it.
Or Like Macca, John McVie or Bill Wyman, is being a self taught player with years of experience and still earning more than a living from playing being a pro?
Edit: Is being a Pro determined by a certain level of recognition from A: peers and/or B: Audience?
I'm confused. ???
Semantics and labels. Who needs them really?
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Don't overthink it. A pro plays for money.
And don't get me going on jazz players who think other music is "lesser."
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Don't overthink it. A pro plays for money.
And don't get me going on jazz players who think other music is "lesser."
To me a pro is someone who is just so good it very obvious. He doesn't really have to prove anything to anyone. He may or may not make a living full-time from playing music. I have several friends I would place in this category, although I certainly wouldn't place myself there. I have a friend, for example, who has a reputation for being one of the best guitarists in this area. Anyone who knows anything about music in this area knows that; it's indisputable. I don't know how much money he makes from playing music, but I'm pretty sure he isn't rich. I have another friend who is keyboardist in a country band. They have a good regional reputation. But that isn't what they do for a full-time living. In his case, for example, he also teaches music part-time at a community college and has done other things, etc. In his case, he can pretty much play any instrument, too. This certainly includes bass. I've even taken lessons from him. I have a drummer friend down the street who is so good on drums that he was playing in a band that toured with Little Richard while he was still a teenager. He is in his 50s now. I don't know how he would classify himself. He may have made a living from music for a few years, but that was long ago. It's true he is rusty on drums now. But with a few months practice he would be just as good as ever. Still, as far as I'm concerned he is a pro. Maybe my definition of a pro is too lenient, but I just feel that credit should be give where credit is due. I think circumstances have a lot to do with these things anyway. It's a well-known fact that musicians don't get paid what they deserve. There are plenty of great musicians out there who can't make a living from music, but this doesn't necessarily mean they aren't pros.
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I'm thinking here that a pro (or professional) in other fields like that of Medicine, Accountants, Lawyers generally require a certain amount of study and accreditation before the endowment of such a title.
Gotta Love Wiki :sad:
Professions are distinguished from other occupations represented by trade groups due to their level of legal recognition.
Examples of professions
Professions include, for example: Physicians, Dentists, Pharmacists, Lawyers, Accountants, Veterinarians, Engineers, Teachers, Diplomats, Commissioned Officers, Professors, Librarians, Archivists, Clergy, Urban Planners, Architects, Physical Therapists, Nurses, Occupational Therapists, Chiropractors, and Social Workers.
Sorry guys, looks like we miss out again. Damn those Librarians and Nurses. No one mention the clergy!
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constantly comparing yourself to others is a waste of time and will drive you nuts. i know it's sometimes hard to do but be your own player and concentrate on that. and don't let the bastards get you down. ;)
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I teach that exact message to my students NoFi. I just figure that I see so many different versions of what constitutes a pro bassist that it would be a fun exchange of ideas. :)
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Don't overthink it. A pro plays for money.
Sweet! That makes me even better. I'm now a retired professional, as I no longer get paid to play.