The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: Alanko on July 29, 2015, 02:42:26 PM
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I would be surprised if this hasn't been seen before, but this fella Heesey plays a bunch of tasty T-birds, and copies, through a SVT stack.
Part 1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVPxnecYtMM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVPxnecYtMM)
Part 2. (Non-reverse).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aDiy8nbYVA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aDiy8nbYVA)
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New to me but there's an existing thread for anything video that's T'Bird flavoured... ;)
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Ah, but yes to stick with LBO tradition here's the derail!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d66QPpRlhSg
Female, Japanese slap bass on V no less - she's rather entertaining 8) Like a Japanese Bootsy but much cuter :)
God help me but I like some of this :o I've spent twenty minutes watching a bunch of these videos - m u s t stop...
Harry, any idea of who they, she, is?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAJQWm4p-xY
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Ah, Buzz... To Japan...! and Beyond...! :mrgreen:
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An interesting diversion. 8)
I went through all three of Heesey's videos. I guess he is one of these guys that comes alive in a band setting, as he fumbles through a bunch of grooveless riffs. He also seems to always have both pickups on?
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He has a bunch of Kaminari Non Reverse Thunderbirds.
I've never heard of that brand. Looks like an Asian (Japanese?) version of the BaCHbird. Except for the headstock that looks like it is more Fender style non-angled.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aDiy8nbYVA
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Yep, Japanese.
http://kaminari-guitars.com/?p=1010
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The hardware looks a cut above the BaCH stuff, and the pin striping is a nice touch.
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Body ?Mahogany
Neck?Maple
Fretboard?Indian Rosewood
Scale?864mm (432mm)
Neck Joint ? Set-Neck
Pickup ?Lollar Thunderbird Bass Pickups
Machine Heads?Gotoh GB30
Bridge?Hipshot D Style 2Pieace Bridge System
Color?Dove Blue / White / Black / Custom color
The Lollar pickups are certainly better than the Artecs.
Gotoh tuners are excellent
The Hipshot is an ... errmm... acquired taste!
I think I could do without the pin striping ;)
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No Greco? Fail.
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An interesting diversion. 8)
I went through all three of Heesey's videos. I guess he is one of these guys that comes alive in a band setting, as he fumbles through a bunch of grooveless riffs. He also seems to always have both pickups on?
He may be fine in a band setting but Koga has a much better groove and her bass spins ;)
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An interesting diversion. 8)
I went through all three of Heesey's videos. I guess he is one of these guys that comes alive in a band setting, as he fumbles through a bunch of grooveless riffs. He also seems to always have both pickups on?
I only watched the first two, but for what these are, demos of differences in T-Birds, what he does is perfect and is very much a reflection of how a real bass player would put one through its paces. He's not trying to impress with his playing. It's all about the bass. The chick in the other video might as well be a drum machine: her "playing" is a multitracked and tempo-mapped layered affair and boring after about 30 seconds, when it's obvious she's only miming her "playing" and several notes are audible that could not possibly have been played by the "video hands." There are all kinds of these slap videos on YouTube where folks layer multiple bass lines in order to make their playing seem better than it is. I'll take Heesey's Geezer and Glover-inspired fretboard antics over that chick's glossy showtune ANY day. Les Claypool is one of the VERY few players who can make that stuff work in a song and I've seen him do it live. It's cool to know that bass is being showcased, but the vids are not as they are made to appear.
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+1!
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Ya, have to agree as well, but then again I don't enjoy slapping that much. No idea why Youtube bassists always have to slap. There is one guy (might be the Bluesman Vintage dude actually) that pulls out all these old '70s Ricks and then slaps away on them so that the sound from the bass is louder than the amplified tone.
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The hardware looks a cut above the BaCH stuff, and the pin striping is a nice touch.
It should be, it is priced a lot higher. About double what the Gibson NR sold for.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kaminari-Guitars-YARDBIRD-YB-1-White-/261397665868?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdc83d84c
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free shipping, though. :P
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I would rather buy a vintage carcass and pay somebody to do it up... :o
$2,800 is a lot of money for a copy... surely you could get Mike Lull to build one for that?
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Ya, have to agree as well, but then again I don't enjoy slapping that much. No idea why Youtube bassists always have to slap. There is one guy (might be the Bluesman Vintage dude actually) that pulls out all these old '70s Ricks and then slaps away on them so that the sound from the bass is louder than the amplified tone.
Yeah, online demos so often consist of a guitarist fumbling through some lightly played fingerstyle "grooves", or on the other end of the spectrum, slappity slappity slap! I do admit that when I'm checking out a bass, I always go into some slap riffs just because it gives me an idea of the instrument's responsiveness.
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Alrighty,
Slap is a valuable technique...I have nowhere near the technical virtuosity to wank away at a bass like some of these people...but when my band plays "Unchain My Heart" and I play it with my thumb and an occasional percussive pluck to the higher strings it sounds good and has a good groove. I like to keep it pretty simple and stupid. Just play good time. I'm a simple man.
I agree that a wank-fest is pretty irritating. I love Primus, but sometimes it gets on my nerves. I think the bass should serve the song not the other way around.
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I'm not dogging slapping as a playing style that is part of a greater composition or just wanking or whatever. I'm a 'song first' player myself even though I can drop Claypool lines with the best of them. I'm just tired of seeing fake shit on YouTube that sounds like a preset for a rhythm machine supposedly showcasing all these amazing players that somehow have never had a break. If the players were REALLY as good as video trickery is making them look, it would be a different matter. Look, if the shitty YouTube videos of Justin Beiber's terrible performances made him a star, all these "super players" should be overrunning modern music completely.
It's to the point that I question whether some of the showcased "players" (which all seem to be attractive girls) even play the instrument at all. Most of those slap licks are WAY too clean to have been produced by a real bass and the rhythms are obviously looped and like Seinfeld's riffs, sourced from a keyboard sound bank. I've seen other videos with girl bass players supposedly supplying entire rhythm sections with nothing more than a 4-string and an open back guitar combo. Try slapping for real on one of those sometime and see what happens. The dynamics of an actual player will always vary slightly and all it takes is a single overenthusiastic pop and bye-bye speaker, yet in a flurry of hand motion and camera hamming, the tone, timing and individual note volume never deviates outside of a few patterns.
Maybe I'm just a bitter old traditionalist, but I LIKED Heesey's playing as used to showcase the differences in tone between various T-Birds and don't think that he should be slagged for not keeping perfect tempo on music store riffs and then to have his very real playing which involved minimal post production (editing for time, inserting slates and graphics) weighed against the obvious fakery of some cute Asian chick fronting keyboard-sourced basslines, it bugs me because we're players and ought to know better. Maybe it's because I work with live TV every day and know how hard it is to get consistency even in a multimillion dollar studio that when I see what is supposed to be a single camera as-live presentation that is anything but, it grates on me.
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Don't recant that rant!!! I'm with you. The only slapper I ever heard that sounded truly like a machine without any tricks was Mark King at a Frankfurt Messe booth in the 80ies. I thought a DX7 keyboard had gone wild, but it was him. And though his bass playing (or Level 42's music in general) does nothing for me emotionally, I respected the athletic aspect of it. I can appreciate slapping if (i) I don't have to do it and (ii) it sounds a little warts and all.
With all due respect to that Japanese girl's hand coordination (or - depending on your view - programming skills), that is not music to me. She might just as well take part in a "fastest typyst competition" in the 60ies.
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I enjoyed the Thunderbird shootout...have always wanted a bird since about '78 or '79. Through the Ampeg rig, though, they all pretty much sounded good. Even the Epi with the chrome pups.
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I dislike 99% of slap I've heard. OTOH there's no such thing as an invalid technique.
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Think 70's R & B...Music has been de-evolving ever since.
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Don't get me wrong - the whole slap thing is lost on me - not my bag at all. But this is like a train wreck that you just have to stop and look at :o PBG - you almost ruined it for me but I'm not really interested in her playing so, all is good :P
Oh, and I actually liked the $$$ Japanese clone sound the best. Wouldn't spend the money on one though.
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My last post was mostly facetious...we all know there are TWO kinds of music...old R & B, and old Country...preferably if there are banjos involved.
Seriously, all of the T-bird examples sounded good and very similar to me. Which leaves me with absolutely no idea of what to purchase some day when I'm a little more affluent. I kinda liked the ones with TB Plus pups, though.
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I'd like to revise the above statement from my learned friend...
That might need to be increased from two to perchance six forms...
Rhythm and Blues...
Country and Western
Rock and Roll
The edges of which all of the above have been blurring for numerous decades to a point where the original article is somewhat difficult to interpret...
:mrgreen:
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I'd like to revise the above statement from my learned friend...
That might need to be increased from two to perchance six forms...
Rhythm and Blues...
Country and Western
Rock and Roll
The edges of which all of the above have been blurring for numerous decades to a point where the original article is somewhat difficult to interpret...
:mrgreen:
Uh, you forgot the new, aw inspiring "Country Rap"! :puke: :puke: Surely this "genre" is the work of Satan his own bad self :rolleyes: Bob Wills is rolling in his grave :sad:
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Rap...? isn't that something you do to your knuckles if your hand slips off the plane...? :mrgreen:
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you mean this shite here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsNwDjUjbfs
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Country rap: THE definition of irony. Crap for short (and accuracy). That shit is just plain terrible. Like it or not, true rap was a rhythmic expression of inner-city life by the people who lived in those ghettos. I went to a predominantly poor black elementary school and the kids beat box rapped there the same way older white kids made their own bands. Taking lazy overprivileged white trash who are aping that style after experiencing none of the hardships that gave rap artistic credibility and applying the sensibility of modern pop-rock "country," that's just THE definition for pure garbage. There may be some form of it out there that has merit, but it sure as hell isn't anything that sounds like that video.
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proof of de-evolution
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Are we not rappers ? No we're Devo ;)
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We need a "cow pie/BS" emoticon - something with flies buzzing about!
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If I were a "country girl", I'd be both insulted and repulsed by that last video.
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Yep, I'm wishing I had skipped my late Sunday morning breakfast after watching 20 seconds of that :sad:
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"Country rap" is referred to by critics as hick-hop. I believe it was introduced by Jason
Aldouche Aldean.
If you like to read funny putdowns of modern "country" try Reginald Spears (https://twitter.com/reginaldspears) on Twitter. He's the brainchild of the guy who writes the Farce The Music (http://www.farcethemusic.com/) blog. Or Drunken Martina (https://twitter.com/drunkenmartina) on Twitter or Facebook.
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I respect Willie Nelson as a composer..."Crazy" is about as good as it gets...same goes for Merle Haggard, and especially Lester and Earl...
There is no art or value to the crap that I have heard lately. It is crap performed by the ignorant...
Willie kind of reminds me of Sir Paul, in that he is aware of show tunes, tin-pan alley tunes...he knows how to construct a good melody with changes that resolve logically...even though he probably can't read music. Point is, that Willie and Paul are educated in the music of the past, and THAT enabled them to create valid music for the present and the future.
To this day we still play "Wichita Lineman", by Jimmy Webb...in my mind that song is an absolutely timeless masterpiece...and every time I let that bass solo rip, I pray I do the song justice...if I could write a song, I would want it to be like "Wichita Lineman". Timeless. "And I need you more than want you...and I want you for all time..." If I came up with stuff like that I would not be an accountant in Cincinnati Ohio.
That's what music should be about. Yes, I am extraordinarily passionate about this stuff...music without passion is nothing, just wanking.
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I have to watch what I say round here. 8)
Slap is a valid technique; Peg by Steely Dan wouldn't be the same without it. Slapping seems to be the go-to technique for a lot of Youtube videos and, for me, it doesn't really tell me a lot about how a bass sounds. To give the example before (possibly the Bluesman vintage dude), there is a bald fellow on Youtube that demoes a bunch of '70s Rickenbacker 4001 basses. He A/Bs them in some videos. He talks about the nuances of the tone, but he has a really spiky, peaky slap thing going on the whole time. Or he tries to play finger style as fast as possible. Nothing else, and you can hear the acoustic sound of the Rick over whatever amp he's using. It seems like a wasted opportunity to hear some cool old Ricks.
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boy do i agree with you. just yesterday i was on you tube trying to find amp reviews using my tone. flats on a p or j bass with real heavy low end. all i got were slappers galore to the extent i could not use a damn thing i heard to decide on an amp purchase. >:(
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This isn't really a new thing happening. When I tested by T-Bird in the shop 25 years ago I played some normal runs, then tuned it to drop-D and tried my hand at Jailbait ( of course ;) ) and the shop attendent came looking because he hadn't heard a guy testing a bass without slapping for ages .......
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More on the worthless shit that calls itself country rap: I watched some more of that video and it REALLY pissed me off. The assholes making that "music" are the kinds of guys I made sure knew to step to other side of the hall in high school when I walked by. They're about as country as Donald Trump and I'd love the chance to take every one of their worthless white trash asses out into the woods in the actual country to prove themselves and their "country boy-ness" for a single night. The coyotes would eat well. I grew up on a farm, drive a pickup truck, and own a John Deere tractor that isn't a lawnmower. Not a single example of "being country" they supplied in the minute of that "song" that I suffered through (that's all I could take without punching through my monitor) is anything to do with actually growing up in the country and being a rural farmer. City bitch? Every one of them.
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Is that an inferiority complex I detect? :bored:
Not sure why you are posting this shit in my thread about Thunderbird basses.
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Is that an inferiority complex I detect? :bored:
Not sure why you are posting this shit in my thread about Thunderbird basses.
Things go off topic here. It's one of our more endearing traits. I didn't realize that this was your thread. Sorry for the intrusion. I found the content of that terrible video appalling before, and was giving it another chance today with fresh eyes. It was even worse. Inferiority complex? Test any part of that at your leisure.
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Is that an inferiority complex I detect? :bored:
Not sure why you are posting this shit in my thread about Thunderbird basses.
Things go way off topic here all the time. And any thread here that goes on long enough will eventually turn to Ritchie Blackmore. It's just the way things are. Might as well get used to it.
My guess is that Psycho Bass Guy has a superiority complex about bro-country and hick-hop. I sure do.
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I like it that the thread of logic is pretty "loose" around here.
I also enjoy the fact that most everyone is pretty much the same age as me...give or take ten years or so. So be it.
I'm a confirmed city boy, but I remember when I was a little kid coming in from playing outside on Saturdays to watch whoever was on "Hee-Haw" that week.
Probably where I acquired the banjo fetish.
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... and re PBG ... he's one of the most knowledgeable amp guru's around, bar none, down to the solder... ;)
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Fair shout, every forum has a different vibe. ;D
If y'all real nice I'll tell you how I got banned from Talkbass. :sad:
Apart from Heesey, some select Wishbone Ash live cuts, Nirvana (eek) and isolated bass tracks from Who's Next and Quadraphenia, where can I hear some nice old Thunderbird basses in the wild?
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You may be in good company with some on the site here then... but you will also find several that haunt both (not me - happily tucked in here; nice an' cosy)...
Spill, kindly... ;)
As for T'Birds, there's a lengthy thread that's easy to find that will keep you in videos for a week or more... unless you have an inordinate amount of spare time...
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Quite a boring tale actually... I had an account on there for a few years and racket up a healthy number of infractions. That account was registered with my college email address, and when I graduated I lost my login details for the email system, which was then synched up with Office 365. I set up another Talkbass account, somehow get checked out by the mods a few months later and end up getting banned for having a duplicate account. No wiggle room there!
Spare time is something of a luxury. :o
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If y'all real nice I'll tell you how I got banned from Talkbass. :sad:
That's why most of us are here LOL
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Apart from Heesey, some select Wishbone Ash live cuts, Nirvana (eek) and isolated bass tracks from Who's Next and Quadraphenia, where can I hear some nice old Thunderbird basses in the wild?
The solo bass intro to Mike Watt's "In the Engine Room" sent me off on a tone quest that led me to the old Dudepit and thence to this forum. It was played on a non reverse II (with added preamp, but I personally don't think it matters much whether your EQ is onboard or off). Easily findable on YouTube...my phone is not letting me paste the link for some reason.
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Is that an inferiority complex I detect? :bored:
Not sure why you are posting this shit in my thread about Thunderbird basses.
I started it - 'twas me. One kinda cute Japanese Girl slapping at a bass as big as long as she was tall - recipe for derailment ;) In my defense she was on the side bar of your original Youtube post though. Occasionally we stray into Gwenyth Paltrow territory instead Ritchie Blackmore though.....
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I stand squarely for the right of the forum to ignore my attempts to digress into Dick Dale territory!
(http://img2.bdbphotos.com/images/orig/l/i/li3zkdo2894rilz9.jpg?kj8as6ye)
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We LOVE to go off topic here. Definitely one of the things I enjoy about this place. We cover a LOT of ground with topics and usually bring the discussions back to the relevant points eventually. Much more relaxed here and that makes it soooo much better to hang out here.
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We LOVE to go off topic here. Definitely one of the things I enjoy about this place.
The best part is that there are only about 6 or 7 topics we go off to - which makes it easy to keep up
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That's why most of us are here LOL
+1
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Speaking of Ritchie Blackmore, I have to vent a little. Great player who definitely brought a lot of speed into the hard rock world, paving the way for shredders, but he smashed guitars in the weakest most pathetic manner. Most smasher guitarists used the thing like a pickaxe, but Blackers always limply threw the thing around by the neck then bounced the headstock off the stage until it broke. Pretty boring. I watched that Rainbow live video once, where he has Taurus bass pedals onstage and slowly, and tediously, smashes a black Strat.
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The solo bass intro to Mike Watt's "In the Engine Room" sent me off on a tone quest that led me to the old Dudepit and thence to this forum. It was played on a non reverse II (with added preamp, but I personally don't think it matters much whether your EQ is onboard or off). Easily findable on YouTube...my phone is not letting me paste the link for some reason.
Got it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF-mrT9id9Q
It's a very weird album and not everyone's cup of tea I'm sure, but it works for me. And I LOOOOVE that opening T-bird bass sound.
Some later tracks on the album also feature a T-bird IV ... I asked Watt about it long ago on talkbass (when he was still there) and got this reply:
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/bass-sounds-on-the-opera.100502/
This was also the album (and tour) that introduced me to Nels Cline, who is now my favorite living electric guitarist. I am in awe of that guy. He's now with Wilco, who I'm not that interested in, but I always like to hear Nels play.
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Fair shout, every forum has a different vibe. ;D
If y'all real nice I'll tell you how I got banned from Talkbass. :sad:
Apart from Heesey, some select Wishbone Ash live cuts, Nirvana (eek) and isolated bass tracks from Who's Next and Quadraphenia, where can I hear some nice old Thunderbird basses in the wild?
Try Glenn Cornick era Jethro Tull and Wild Turkey. Doobie Brothers too. Rainbow on the Down to Earth tour with Graham Bonnet (sound gets better in the process of the clip, hang on).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmYNu4J2Pk8
Or Eloy (though that is a Bicentennial)!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbNGYqLXvXk
Not to forget ole Bootsy who got Martin Turner hooked on a broken Bird in the first place:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPWCg-iuqqs
Plus Herr Way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Guqm4ufKT9Q
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Speaking of Ritchie Blackmore, I have to vent a little. Great player who definitely brought a lot of speed into the hard rock world, paving the way for shredders, but he smashed guitars in the weakest most pathetic manner. Most smasher guitarists used the thing like a pickaxe, but Blackers always limply threw the thing around by the neck then bounced the headstock off the stage until it broke. Pretty boring. I watched that Rainbow live video once, where he has Taurus bass pedals onstage and slowly, and tediously, smashes a black Strat.
Did anybody mention the one who may not be named? The rumors that all threads end in him here are greatly exaggerated though I try to do my best of course. But I can't be everywhere at once. Yet, mortal folly, you have called me ...
(http://www.sideshowtoy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/300074-product-thumb1.jpg)
Ritchie not so much smashed guitars as he executed them. And he did it with style and elegance - only matched by Jimi Hendrix' voodoo cultish burnings. Pete Townshend was always too quick/uncontrolled (a premature ejaculator if I have ever seen one) and Paul Stanley hamfisted (in line with much of Kiss' music), but Ritchie ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAUJoZvj0qE
Talkwot?Bass? Come on, that is kiddie stuff. We're the forum here that separates the men from the boys. In more ways than one.
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Since Ritchie has visited......Can we now discuss the love that dare not speak it's name?
It's that or model trains :o
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/Mobile%20Uploads/1434298928_zpsb699c3ed.jpg)
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Pete Townsend was much more springy than the other guitar destroyers! I like his style. Great shoulder shimmy at about 2:00, too...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKUBTX9kKEo
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Since Ritchie has visited......Can we now discuss the love that dare not speak it's name?
It's that or model trains :o
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/Mobile%20Uploads/1434298928_zpsb699c3ed.jpg)
Before we rush into tunnels here, couldn't you be a little more gentle with your initiation rites, Mark?! I mean you were the guy to say that lubing up is a must.
That said, I'm still waiting for a thread that combines Ritchie, negative things about Led Zep, Ayn Rand, badly spotted WW II planes, tanks, Gene Simmons, model trains, Gwyneth Paltrow and anal sex (consecutive order of subjects not mandatory). Plus learned elucidations on how finish doesn't influence sound. That would be true nirvana, one thread to rule them all.
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(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131116000607/lotr/images/9/9b/TheOneRing.jpg)
We'll just call you Uwe Sauronson.
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(https://i.imgflip.com/p34m8.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/p34m8)via Imgflip Meme Maker (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
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I somehow feel pigeon-holed here!!!
But since you started it, here is the nicest imaginable combination of both:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-bmeQ-OrS4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXcg470LGmA
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Before we rush into tunnels here, couldn't you be a little more gentle with your initiation rites, Mark?! I mean you were the guy to say that lubing up is a must.
That said, I'm still waiting for a thread that combines Ritchie, negative things about Led Zep, Ayn Rand, badly spotted WW II planes, tanks, Gene Simmons, model trains, Gwyneth Paltrow and anal sex (consecutive order of subjects not mandatory). Plus learned elucidations on how finish doesn't influence sound. That would be true nirvana, one thread to rule them all.
My Hindquarters is quivering in anticipation :-*
Don't forget images of eerrrmmmmm appendages reflecting in CHROME pickups either.
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WW2 aircraft I can do!
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Favorite types? My favorite fighters are P-47 Thunderbolt (Razorback), Hellcat, Corsair, Focke-Wulf 190, La-7 (yup, I like air-cooled engines mostly) and Me 262 (I like the shark look of its body).
Brits? I never dug the looks of either the Spit (those elliptical wings look too playful to me) or the Hurricane (hunchback!), if pressed I'd choose Hawker Tempest/Typhoon.
Ken can't really tell them apart too well.
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FW190 is a good choice... I really like those curvy Spitfire wings though.
I don't know if I have a favorite, but there's something really cool and iconic about the P-38. Like a doubleneck???
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nikki sissi sixx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTEDoCShl-I&list=PL74E03C13A76A13F9&index=8
you will note that he is smashing a cheapo fender affinity he had waiting in the wings. i saw the whole concert video and it took him forever to bust that thing
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He had a hard time smashing those Epi TBirds too, they are - in contrast to the frail original - quite durable.
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Favorite types? My favorite fighters are P-47 Thunderbolt (Razorback), Hellcat, Corsair, Focke-Wulf 190, La-7 (yup, I like air-cooled engines mostly) and Me 262 (I like the shark look of its body).
Brits? I never dug the looks of either the Spit (those elliptical wings look too playful to me) or the Hurricane (hunchback!), if pressed I'd choose Hawker Tempest/Typhoon.
Ken can't really tell them apart too well.
P-47's do have their fans here, if you were gonna get shot at or needed to do some shooting it was a pretty good Bird to be in.
I like Corsairs a lot too.
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FW190 is a good choice... I really like those curvy Spitfire wings though.
I don't know if I have a favorite, but there's something really cool and iconic about the P-38. Like a doubleneck???
Like a doubleneck indeed, good comparison. It's an elegant design, but two engine piston fighters have their inherent limits. It was better than those lumbering Me 110s though. Looks better than the Mosquito too. Luftwaffe never rated it high (it was used as a bomber escort in Europe initially - for lack of anything better with comparable range and decent high altitude performance), but it did well in the Pacific (as long as it fought a Zero on its own terms and didn't try to dog-fight it).
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... That said, I'm still waiting for a thread that combines Ritchie, negative things about Led Zep, Ayn Rand, badly spotted WW II planes, tanks, Gene Simmons, model trains, Gwyneth Paltrow and anal sex (consecutive order of subjects not mandatory). Plus learned elucidations on how finish doesn't influence sound. That would be true nirvana, one thread to rule them all.
Well, always being up for a challenge... Gwyneth Paltrow, Ritchie Blackmore and Gene Simmons were sitting in the Tank heavy-leather gay bar in down-town Las Vegas (a place where no one ever asked the question why?), shooting the breeze, when Gwyneth happened to mention that she'd just completed the painting on her latest HO gauge rolling-stock and Gene replies, "Wow, and I thought ho meant... nah... just kidding, but Ritchie, there's this vicious rumour doing the rounds that a heavy poly coating will improve the resonance of some tonewoods... whatcha think...?" Ritchie looked him square in the eye and replied "You don't 'alf talk some crap, Gene; next you'll be telling me Hitler only 'ad one ball and Eva preferred it up the chuff-chuff pipe...!" then burst out laughing and followed up with, "But did you hear that Pagey and Bobby might 'ave finally copped it for nicking riffs off those less fortunate!" Gwyneth chimed in, "Really? Whose?". Before RB could reply Gene choked on his frozen daiquiri when he heard 2112 starting to come out of the sound system; "Sorry, I just can't stand all this Objectivism posturing, " gets up, strutters across the bar to the juke box and gives it a hefty kick, to which the CD skates right off to the next track, and he stalks back to the booth, smiling, "I've always preferred Bangkok". "So I've heard," quipped Gwyneth, with a sparkle in her eye. "California," Ritchie says. "What? Gwyneth and Gene replied simultaneously, and Gene continued, "Ritchie, Ritchie, Ritchie, this is Nevada, not California, that's almost as bad as mistaking a Spitfire for a Hurricane over your side of the Pond; oh yeah, and any truth in the rumour you narrowly missed out on the part of Gollum, and you didn't even need the makeup...?" "You cheeky b*st*rd, get off yer arse and get the next round in before I die of thirst! and one other thing," he comments, hearing the next song over the sound system, "Just wot is a mulato when it's at 'ome...?, And make mine a Gibson!" Gyneth, with a puzzled look on her face questioned, "But you play Fenders...?" :mrgreen:
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A beautiful mind!
(http://www.rollingstone.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/04/13/beautiful_mind_BINARY_558618.jpg)
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Ah, you've glimpsed the madness of my sanity... ;)
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It figures that a vegetarian like Kenny would like Gwyneth, she names her kids after fruits and vegetables.
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Dave is still bitter about the whole thing, sigh!
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Alanko, forgive me, I accidentally modified and overwrote your post when I only wanted to extract quotes from it. I'll go shoot myself now ... Uwe
"For Brits I would have to go for the Westland Whirlwind;
(http://www.whirlwindfighterproject.org/FA_18181s-website.jpg)
Much overlooked ..."
No, blindingly ugly!!! :mrgreen: (Uwe)
"For American WW2-era designs, I really like the Catalina flying boats. Don't ask why!"
The PBYs had something Art Deco-ish to them, I like them a lot too. It's difficult to give a flight boat elegance, they succeeded in this case.
(http://www.free-picture.net/cache/airplane/old-airplane/consolidated-pby-catalina_w520.jpg)
But even unelegant amphibious aircraft warm my heart. I love the Short Sunderland. (Uwe)
(http://img15.deviantart.net/e439/i/2008/274/d/8/short_sunderland_mk_iii_by_araeld.jpg)
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Whoa Kenny! That was excellent. That sums this place up pretty much.
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nikki sissi sixx
you will note that he is smashing a cheapo fender affinity he had waiting in the wings. i saw the whole concert video and it took him forever to bust that thing
The plywood Chinese Fenders are not only incredibly tough (because they're finished plywood) but they actually sound and play very well, too. The Squier Classic Vibe Jazz is as good of a sounding and playing Fender as anything new they have out there outside of the custom shop.
My favorite WWII planes are the F4U Corsair that I grew up watching on Black Sheep Squadron, the P-47 Jug, and of course, the classic Merlin-powered P-51D Mustang, but I'm a jet age kind of guy and not because of Tony Scott's homoerotica but maybe the Final Countdown's dusting of some WWII Japanese Zero stand-ins, I've always loved the F-14 Tomcat (in truth it started with the G.I. Joe Sky Striker toy):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkOsXNF_ZoM
(http://www.yojoe.com/images/resize/w/MAX/vehicles/83/skystriker/skystriker_raised_iso.jpg)
Never did model trains but always wanted to; maybe one day. I've not built any models since my early teen years, but I went all out when I did, airbrushing and everything. Unfortunately, my nephew liked planes as a toddler and my mother gave him my models to use as toys. None survived. As for the love that shall not be named, sorry guys, one of the reasons I play bass is that I have enough trouble with the self-lubricating orifice being accommodating at times: large object, tight space. I have no desire to injure myself or my wonderful girlfriend attempting something best left to the Greeks and pornstars, not to mention all the nasty side effects.
I very much would like to own a good sounding Thunderbird one day, be it a Gibson or otherwise and my only non-Fender inspired basses are my new cream EB, my black Epi Les Paul standard, my fretless Ibanez Musician, and my early 34" scale Tom Petersson Waterstone 12 string that was an evaluation model for him. Worse than anal or trains, I love Fender Jazz Basses and have little bit of a thing for big (200 watt or greater) tube bass amps and huge cabinets, my rarest being a Marshall 4x15 for the JCM800 model 2001 Bass Major and a few Ampeg 8x10's and various other cabs.
...and as an astute reader may have surmised, I grew up farming and working very hard in the country and have no love for crappy fake pop-country or any of its redneck poser trappings. My first words were John Deere, no joke.
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b]Alanko, forgive me, I accidentally modified and overwrote your post when I only wanted to extract quotes from it. I'll go shoot myself now ...[/b] Uwe
"For Brits I would have to go for the Westland Whirlwind;
(http://www.whirlwindfighterproject.org/FA_18181s-website.jpg)
Much overlooked ..."
No, blindingly ugly!!! :mrgreen: (Uwe)
"For American WW2-era designs, I really like the Catalina flying boats. Don't ask why!"
The PBYs had something Art Deco-ish to them, I like them a lot too. It's difficult to give a flight boat elegance, they succeeded in this case.
(http://www.free-picture.net/cache/airplane/old-airplane/consolidated-pby-catalina_w520.jpg)
But even unelegant amphibious aircraft warm my heart. I love the Short Sunderland. (Uwe)
(http://img15.deviantart.net/e439/i/2008/274/d/8/short_sunderland_mk_iii_by_araeld.jpg)
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No, blindingly ugly!!! :mrgreen: (Uwe)
Get out! :o :mrgreen:
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But it is! As was the Defiant!!! That thing was très horrible. Even the Russians wouldn't have flown it. Uglier than an Aircobra and that is saying something!!!
(http://www.sonsofdamien.co.uk/airacobra2.jpg)
You must have a kind heart!!!
(http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/assets/userfiles/wolverhampton_history/conflict/001812.jpg)
Granted, the Defiant is slightly reminiscent of a Sturmovik ...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Il2_sturmovik.jpg)
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That Defiant was a (barely) moving target, your odds of coming home safe were pretty low. The Englanders certainly made some ugly airplanes.
As a nod to the slight amount of Italian heritage in me.......
The Caproni Maroni C-2 Scud, engines at both ends so it could change direction mid flight and become part of a "former" enemies attacking force.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/caproni.gif)
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(http://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/How+many+times+have+we+said+things+like+_799858484b71814d39c6c6fb6096c27d.jpg)
Maledetto!!!
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"That Defiant was a (barely) moving target, your odds of coming home safe were pretty low."
Only after a couple of unsuspecting Luftwaffe pilots had gotten the knack that attacking a Defiant from behind wasn't the smartest idea!!! Soon after the Defiants had to be relegated to night fighting service where their ability to shoot upwards from below and behind made indeed some sense. A rear gunner concept never worked with any daylight fighter. The Luftwaffe had already learned that with the Me 110.
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Ah yes, the Sunderland, the beastie that brought my genetic roots safely back from Burma and has lumbered 230 squadron with the responsibility for my existence... my usual comment to them is "It's all your fault...!" :mrgreen:
About three years I've been writing material for them now and my research files are stupidly large... :o
Nearing completion of the first of a series of books for them...
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Cool to see the Bell Aircobra up there. I read recently about a restoration team that had gathered up Kingcobra wrecks from across Russia;
http://p63kingcobra.com/63_kingcobra_restoration.html (http://p63kingcobra.com/63_kingcobra_restoration.html)
Back to T-birds... why did Jeff Ament specify the 20% increase in body and headstock size on his Mike Lull sig? He doesn't seem like the biggest of dudes, and a T-bird is pretty big to start with!
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Back to T-birds... why did Jeff Ament specify the 20% increase in body and headstock size on his Mike Lull sig? He doesn't seem like the biggest of dudes, and a T-bird is pretty big to start with!
Like me, he's 6'5" or thereabouts. I do remember reading he acquired a Gibson Blackbird and said it was a bit small and I suppose he has the swag to experiment.
I've got a JAX T4...for comparison purposes here's a shot of one of my Thunderbirds riding the Lull (the basses were lined up at the nut):
(http://www.nancyjohnson.co.uk/jax5.JPG)
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i looked him up. ament is 5'11''. i didn't think he was a real tall guy.
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The Englanders certainly made some ugly airplanes.
It carried over to some (not all) of their cars.
(http://www.simoncars.co.uk/morriscv/slides/Morris%20440%20Van%201980%20front.jpg)
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It carried over to some (not all) of their cars.
(http://www.simoncars.co.uk/morriscv/slides/Morris%20440%20Van%201980%20front.jpg)
Whereas all German cars had style. Like the Goggomobil and the Amphicar.
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Dave is still bitter about the whole thing, sigh!
Yes, because my easygoing personality would fit well with an entitled, neurotic, psychotic woman.
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I've got a JAX T4...for comparison purposes here's a shot of one of my Thunderbirds riding the Lull (the basses were lined up at the nut):
What did the babies look like?
Speaking of babies (uh oh), I've seen a picture of John Entwistle and his son (Christopher?), both playing T-birds, though the kids is way smaller. Was that a Gibson one off, a Peter Cook creation, and was it even playable? Did John get it as a piccolo bass, or was it a gift for his son?
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What did the babies look like?
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b75/ADDmodeler/Ukes/Epiphone%20UkeBird/Bird2.jpg)
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It carried over to some (not all) of their cars.
(http://www.simoncars.co.uk/morriscv/slides/Morris%20440%20Van%201980%20front.jpg)
That is a very common design from the late seventies. Not necessarily British. Might as well be a Ford Escort or Opel Kadett.
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Its unfair to drag up any car made in the UK in the '70s. Cars left the factory with trim missing and wiring rat's nests behind the dash. Some were rusty before they left the showroom. Not good!
Having said all that, the E-type Jag leaves me cold. :rolleyes:
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"Whereas all German cars had style. Like the Goggomobil and the Amphicar."
You try rebuilding your auto industry from scratch after you have just lost a WW and resources are tight!!!
My divorced wife still has the Jag E I gave her as a present on her 40th birthday - everything that has been written about the unreliability of these cars is bitterly true. It spends more time in the repair shop than a life sentence inmate in prison.
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Back to T-birds... why did Jeff Ament specify the 20% increase in body and headstock size on his Mike Lull sig? He doesn't seem like the biggest of dudes, and a T-bird is pretty big to start with!
I'm a hair over 6' barefoot, and I still like my basses on the small side. Over-sized bodies? No thanks!
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Having said all that, the E-type Jag leaves me cold. :rolleyes:
HERESY!! HERESY!!!
BURN THE WITCH!!
(http://static1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/He+s+a+witch+burn+him+_fd370c3ac6ee0d9d9751e7f7f3fc71cd.jpg)
Well, actually, the saying used to be that if you drove a E-type, you had to own three of them:
One to be in the shop getting the carbs tuned and for repairs;
One waiting to be driven;
And one that you're driving.
But they are soooooo pretty....
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The styling of the rear of the E-type Coupe is a disgrace. It seems like the whole thing should have been lowered at the rear, and the roofline is too tall as well.
[img][/http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/photos-smallwood/79.jpgimg]
I also don't consider the Lockheed Constellation to be the design marvel that many do, so perhaps I'm just a bit odd.
Had Jethro Tull Live at the Isle of Wight 1970 on today. That hearty T-bird tone is pretty amazing. :mrgreen: The only real problem is that the bass solo in Bouree is so undefined that it sounds like fog pouring out the amps.
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I'll grant that the hardtop on the E-type 2+2 is ridiculous looking.
(http://www.classicmotorsales.net/home/components/com_autostand/files/img_cars/thumb_b4090278f787b327865591456b812d19.jpg)
But I'll defend the back end of the standard E-type as prettier than 90% of all vehicles made since then.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/21/article-0-11D6C8EC000005DC-662_634x443.jpg)
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I really did enjoy that scene in "Madmen" in which an Englishman decides to commit suicide via carbon monoxide inhalation using his brand new Jag....... Naturally it fails to start :o
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I really did enjoy that scene in "Madmen" in which an Englishman decides to commit suicide via carbon monoxide inhalation using his brand new Jag....... Naturally it fails to start :o
Perfect!
"Electronics by Lucas, Prince of Darkness."
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"Whereas all German cars had style. Like the Goggomobil and the Amphicar."
You try rebuilding your auto industry from scratch after you have just lost a WW and resources are tight!!!
My divorced wife still has the Jag E I gave her as a present on her 40th birthday - everything that has been written about the unreliability of these cars is bitterly true. It spends more time in the repair shop than a life sentence inmate in prison.
Having to rebuild the auto industry from scratch may be an excuse for reliability problems. It's not an excuse for ugly looking cars.
Dave Barry once said that we Americans admire the British even though they're not capable of building a car that can make it across a parking lot without needing a major overhaul.
My older son had a Jag XJ-12. Talk about a money pit. He was so happy to get rid of it!
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How about...
(http://www.warbirdsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/de-Havilland-Mosquito-NZ-Flight-Test.jpg)
...as a great British aircraft design? That must take some beating?
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+1 :mrgreen:
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That's cool, what is it?
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Its a De Havilland Mosquito, a Merlin-powered plywood wonder. :mrgreen:
It seems like De Havilland really liked wood, as they build the cockpit pods of the Vampire jets out of wood as well. Poorly maintained examples tend to delaminate over time. :rolleyes: This seems very much like classic British engineering, a good mix of stylish design and 'what the **** were they thinking'?
De Havilland also made the Sea Vixen, which has to be their most brutalist design as it looks, to me, like part flatfish and part spacecraft.
(http://www.dynavector.co.jp/airmodel/vacuum/images/faw2_600w.jpg)
Back to T-birds, I saw a link to a 7-string Chinese monstrosity today;
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=171881266163&globalID=EBAY-US (http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=171881266163&globalID=EBAY-US)
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Ah, a valiant attempt to bring this thread back on track. I'm quite sure Ritchie Blackmore would be impressed.
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There is no credible record of Ritchie taking an interest in aircraft ever though he was a radio engineer at Heathrow before fate called. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I know that the Mosquito is widely regarded as a beautiful plane - I am dumbfounded why this is so, I find it non-descript! Me no like its front nose/cockpit styling at all. As twin engine aircraft go, I prefer a P-38 Lightning any day, that thing at least looked like it was built for speed.
And of course this ... here, my prize, the Black Widow, isn't she lovely?***
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Northrop_P-61_green_airborne.jpg)
Bullish, ugly in a good way, deadly.
*** Who said this where?
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Stevie Wonder? 8)
I think the Charm of the Mosquito is those two massive props on the end of two massive nacelles. It looks like a bare-knuckle fighter with massive biceps or something. For a nicer cockpit.... how about the long-nose Bristol Blenheim/Fairchild Bolingbroke?
(http://www.warplane.com/images/Aircraft/Boly1.jpg)
And for ugly...
(http://www.vicflintham.co.uk/content/post-war-military-aircraft/beau/beau10r.jpg)
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Talkin' 'bout Little Stevie Wonder. Does anyone follows him on twitter? Hilarious. There are at least three similar ones.
https://twitter.com/itzsteviewonder
https://twitter.com/steeviwonder
https://twitter.com/liisteviewonder
Would love to fly an old Junkers once:
http://www.aerosieger.de/news/5577/junkers-ju-52-zu-gast-am-flughafen-stuttgart.html/
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Somebody's Sea Vixen model needs help - Crappy decal job! Only the English could put the canopy off to one side! :rolleyes:
As English WWII aircraft go I think the Mossie was the best of the bunch, they flew over Germany with great confidence (until the appearance of the Me 262) daily/nightly, and I think it far more interesting than the much loved Spitfire. Spits got all the glory but were so short legged and frail, not the plane I'd want to fly at all.
Uwe, the P61 may have been a bit brutish but as I understand it, the plane was a superior aircraft everywhere it served, despite it's questionable aesthetic.
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"Stevie Wonder?"
Sigh! Here at 2:09 ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVHUyDxmi_Q
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Somebody's Sea Vixen model needs help - Crappy decal job! Only the English could put the canopy off to one side! :rolleyes:
As English WWII aircraft go I think the Mossie was the best of the bunch, they flew over Germany with great confidence (until the appearance of the Me 262) daily/nightly, and I think it far more interesting than the much loved Spitfire. Spits got all the glory but were so short legged and frail, not the plane I'd want to fly at all.
Uwe, the P61 may have been a bit brutish but as I understand it, the plane was a superior aircraft everywhere it served, despite it's questionable aesthetic.
I had no intention of knocking it, I really think it was one hell of a cool aircraft. And that turret looks like nothing you wanted to mess with!
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I think Slink slinked off with that mention of...
That's cool, what is it?
:mrgreen:
Sigh! Here at 2:09 ...
Surrounded by heathens, Sir... :rolleyes:
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Somebody's Sea Vixen model needs help - Crappy decal job! Only the English could put the canopy off to one side! :rolleyes:
It must have made sense on the carriers, or something, though some English Electric Canberras had the same thing.
(http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/resources/images/3007319/)
That's the Martin B-57, to you yankees. :mrgreen:
Speaking of US aircraft, I see another twin Mustang is being restored, presumably also taken from the Soplata collection. Shame they crashed the first one.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/North_American_XP-82_Twin_Mustang_44-83887.Color.jpg)
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Twin Mustang, very interesting.
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Never seen a twin Mustang before.
Who gets to drive?
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On the earliest example both cockpits were 'live', but on later models the port cockpit was retained whilst the starboard cockpit was used by the radar operator. ???
http://xp-82twinmustangproject.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://xp-82twinmustangproject.blogspot.co.uk/)
Anyway, to keep on topic (lol), In Cornick We Trust! I wonder where he got that three-ply black pickguard from?
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ee/cd/9c/eecd9c126955c96b6b7df7c79bdcb63f.jpg)
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Cornick and Mustangs--I like both.
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cornick may be a fond memory for some but i guess you never had to sit through one of his 15 min. solos. i saw him with wild turkey.
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I'm still here :) hard to keep up with you guys... I have not been a proper WW2 aircraft nerd since my model building days around age 10 which is a good 3.5 decades ago.
We've mostly been on fighters, which I guess explains why nobody's mentioned the scary ugly dive bomber yet. And apparently there are no fans of Japanese planes here?
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I'm still here :) hard to keep up with you guys... I have not been a proper WW2 aircraft nerd since my model building days around age 10 which is a good 3.5 decades ago.
We've mostly been on fighters, which I guess explains why nobody's mentioned the scary ugly dive bomber yet. And apparently there are no fans of Japanese planes here?
Same here, I'm way behind the avid fans, too. But I still remember those model building days and how important that was to me.
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... And apparently there are no fans of Japanese planes here?
My dad had some issues with them... strafing and bombing tends to colour your opinion somewhat... :vader:
My research references Zero's and Betty's but not really had to explore that too much...
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My model building was mostly the Revell monster series - Wolfman, Dracula, etc. And a few hot rods. No airplanes.
And this guy. I was probably in Jr High then...still have it, as it sat on a high china hutch for years and I rescued it.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/20150808_085822_zps8kegek3q.jpg)
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My model building was mostly the Revell monster series - Wolfman, Dracula, etc. And a few hot rods. No airplanes.
And this guy. I was probably in Jr High then...still have it, as it sat on a high china hutch for years and I rescued it.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/20150808_085822_zps8kegek3q.jpg)
I started with the ones like Dracula and Wolfman, then went to cars and planes. I think one I did of a Mustang was my favorite. One of the cars was really nice, too, but I can't remember what it was. I never tried dinosaurs, but I'm sure that would have been fun.
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. And apparently there are no fans of Japanese planes here?
They seem too utilitarian to love. They look bulky, they tend to have paint missing everywhere and they outperformed a whole bunch of Allied aircraft. What is there to love? British designs, like our cars, tended to be either graceful or pig ugly, and at least half of them had some fatal design flaw or handling characteristic that gave them further character.
What can you say about a Zero? It was scary fast and looked a bit like a Harvard. :bored:
All said with half a tongue in half a cheek...
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I'm still here :) hard to keep up with you guys... I have not been a proper WW2 aircraft nerd since my model building days around age 10 which is a good 3.5 decades ago.
We've mostly been on fighters, which I guess explains why nobody's mentioned the scary ugly dive bomber yet. And apparently there are no fans of Japanese planes here?
Not so much but I really do like this...........
It's a "Rita" only four were built, crucial material shortages and the end of the war kept it from going any further. The USAAF scrutinized one closely after the war and thought it to be a good plane - sadly all were scrapped.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/nakajima_g8n_zpsplayfgnx.jpg)
Postwar...
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/Rita_zpsuvjibsj3.jpg)
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At the risk of going off off topic, I thought the White 64 Reverse sounded spectacular.
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Shame on you... (typical colonial...) :mrgreen:
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At the risk of going off off topic, I thought the White 64 Reverse sounded spectacular.
A noble effort to inject decorum into this thread.
Deluded, but noble. :o
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A noble effort to inject decorum into this thread.
Deluded, but noble. :o
Fair enough. Back to the topic.
I recently visited this retired RAAF F111 at the Queensland Air Museum at Caloundra not far from where I live. It was one of the first batch delivered and is apparently still virtually functional. Mr Blackmore was not sighted.
(http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/04/47/81/48/queensland-air-museum.jpg)
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5BAWhqtciKk/maxresdefault.jpg)
.
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The '64 did sound spectacular...it was not your imagination.
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I recently visited this retired RAAF F111 ...
I can guarantee you, the very mention of F111 and the RAAF, in certain RAF circles, it raises the hackles on the back of their collective necks...
Check the history of the failed BAC TSR2 project for details - with the above, combined with a certain Lord Mountbottom (persuading the RAAF to back off) and his Buccaneers, they scuppered it...
Effectively the death of independent British aviation design... :sad:
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/AVIATION/2013-1019%20Cosford%2086_zpsvr8te7ti.jpg)
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I can guarantee you, the very mention of F111 and the RAAF, in certain RAF circles, it raises the hackles on the back of their collective necks...
Check the history of the failed BAC TSR2 project for details - with the above, combined with a certain Lord Mountbottom (persuading the RAAF to back off) and his Buccaneers, they scuppered it...
Effectively the death of independent British aviation design... :sad:
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/AVIATION/2013-1019%20Cosford%2086_zpsvr8te7ti.jpg)
Yes the Australian decision to go with the F111 was supposedly due to it's lower cost and better delivery schedule than the BAC TSR2. That didn't turn out so well. Australia waited 10 years for the Triple 1s and the cost trebled. There was a lot of controversy in Australia about the decision to purchase them. Still, a beautiful, potent plane and an impressive sight in flight. I lived near Williamtown Airbase (home to Hornet and Hawk aircraft) for some years and we would be visited occasionally by Triple 1s, which were normally based near Brisbane. I always loved seeing the big noisy beasts.
As you know, the delivery of the Australian F 111s was frought. At least we got to run F 4Es for three years.
(http://www.angelfire.com/extreme/raafphantoms/69-7201C.jpg)
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Is it true they buried some of them...?
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Is it true they buried some of them...?
Some, like the one at Caloundra, have been kept.
But ......yes.....
More info below.
http://www.thiess.com/thiesstv/album/2732239/video/86663113
http://www.warbirdsonline.com.au/2013/07/01/raaf-f111-aircraft-disposal-news/
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Is it true they buried some of them...?
Only the ones that didn't lose their wings in mid-air
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Those F-111's were powered by Pratt and Whitney TF-30 engines, which were developed for it. They also equipped the first and most plentiful variants of the F-14 Tomcat I linked to earlier. The F-14 is actually the back-up plan after a planned naval version of the F-111, the F-111B, failed. That's how it ended up with the ill-suited engines but excellent fire control radar and long range air to air missile system, the AIM-54 Phoenix, which even in the 70's could track 24 targets simultaneously and attack six of them at once. The F-111 never had the same engine problems as the Tomcat because "F" prefix aside, it was never a fighter and never subjected to the same throttle changes and airflow disturbances associated with high angle of attack that go with air to air combat. The A-7 Corsair II, an attack jet derived from the F-8 Crusader, the US Navy's last dedicated gun fighter, the SLUF (shut little ugly f&cker) in Navy parlance, also used the same engine without an afterburner.
The TSR may have been packing the same Olympus engines of the Concorde, but it would only have achieved half its speed, as it was designed for low-level attack. Still, Mach 1.2 at treetop level requires a VERY sturdy airframe. Blame Robert McNamara, who championed the F-111 as an all-purpose platform, for killing the TSR-2. The US and its allies are also currently equipping with the newest "jack of all trades, master of none," jet, the F-35, whose development mirrored the F-111's almost identically, except the US never pulled the plug on the worst variants of the F-35.
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Yes, the F 35.
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The (then) Bristol Olympus in the TSR2 was a different variant to those used in the Vulcan and Concorde, and for that matter the ones used in the RN ships - slightly smaller - top speed was spec'd at Mach 2...
This is one of them at Cosford...
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/AVIATION/2013-1019%20Cosford%2080_zpsxjlfz334.jpg)
There's one up for sale for £25k (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TSR2-Aircraft-Bristol-Siddeley-Olympus-320-Jet-Engine-TSR-2-/131452123119?has :vader:h=item1e9b2837ef) on ebay at the moment...
The problem they had with this variant was disintergration - somewhat significant in engine development, I'd have thought - a Vulcan testbed was lost because of this during trials...
TSR2 only went supersonic once... a transfer between Boscombe and Warton... Bee Beaumont thought sod-it, lit one afterburner, and she just left the Lightning chase-plane for dust (film exists), which was running both engines on burn... all TSR2 crew were very caustic of the then Labour Govt for their shut-down of the project...
In full conspiracy mode - if you cancel a project, would you order the destruction of all plans, jigs, engines, airframes, complete or otherwise, to be done the same day, unless it was required to be a very public destruction to satisfy some third party, or am I wearing a tin-foil hat...?
Oh, btw, look at the Tonka and compare to both F111 and TSR2... RAF cancelled the F111 long before it was ever received by the RAAF.., settling on F4's then Tonka's...
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I find the TSR2 endlessly fascinating. A certain tranche of the UK aviation scene like to suggest that the TSR2 was a faultless feat of engineering marvel killed off by greedy politicians, bumbling civil servants, meddling Royals and Johnny Foreigner. I think the truth is probably a bit more complex than that, not helped by the fact that the aircraft was right on the bleeding edge of technology for the time, and that every aspect of the design was innovative in one way or another. I would compare it to the APT trains we briefly developed; lots of innovation and design overkill but generally not well understood by the guys that had to work on them and hard to justify financially. The fact that the F111 was late rubs salt into the wounds, yes, but the decision made sense to go with it, for me. I think people try and simplify it into a 'death of British aviation' narrative, which it almost certainly wasn't. I think the failed attempt to upgrade the Nimrods to the MRA4 platform could work as a similar allegory.
Where TSR2 gets messy, and interesting, for me is when you try and figure out what happened to XR219; the only TSR2 to ever fly. The jigs for TSR2, along with various airframe components and models were very publically, and petulantly, scrapped. The official line for years after was that none of the TSR2s remained, yet a fairly complete airframe appeared out of Cranwell a while later, a less-complete airframe surfaced as well as a procedures trainer, which is now at Newark. Some jigs are, I think, at Brooklands as well though left in the long grass(!). Various other TSR2 parts have appeared over the years from the back of stores and teaching facilities and I recently saw the radar from one at East Fortune airfield here in Scotland. XR219 was, again, publically and theatrically dragged off to the weapons testing facility at Foulness and blown to bits. However, the main fuselage from about the engines forward was removed some time towards the end of the '70s, and supposedly scrapped. It seems to be an open secret, or wild conspiracy theory, that it was in fact saved from the scrappies. I have a couple of names on record as to who might be responsible for this intervention, though it is likely that it didn't happen at all. In reality if it did survive you would be left with a gutted, fragmented cockpit section minus any avionics. However it is a remnant of the only TSR2 to fly, so it would be nice to see it some day if it exists! TSR2 sections remained on Foulness until the early '90s, yet there was clearly a culture of denial even then.
If anybody wants more details then drop me a PM...
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In full conspiracy mode - if you cancel a project, would you order the destruction of all plans, jigs, engines, airframes, complete or otherwise, to be done the same day, unless it was required to be a very public destruction to satisfy some third party, or am I wearing a tin-foil hat...?
Then-Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney did exactly that to the F-14D program in 1989 because he held a personal grudge against its manufacturer, Grumman Aircraft. Killing it and its planned F-14E and F-21 future development along with cancelling the A-6G Intruder upgrade killed the company and they were bought out by Northrop. Of course all that money went into developmental funding for: the F-35, made by Lockheed.
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My cream Tokai T-bird has arrived, and I get to play it this evening! I'm thinking of having a custom pickguard made up, with the bird image replaced with either a top-down plan of an Avro Shackleton or a front-on plan view of a TSR-2.
Any other suggestions? Aircraft that fit the relative outline of the bird on the pickguard. All welcome.
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(http://www.kids.ct.gov/kids/lib/kids/images/spotlight/jet2.jpg)
:o ;)
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May I make a(n innocent) proposal too? 8)
(http://albumwar2.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/38381.jpg)
Sorry, I was just Focke-Wulfing around ...
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My cream Tokai T-bird has arrived, and I get to play it this evening! I'm thinking of having a custom pickguard made up, with the bird image replaced with either a top-down plan of an Avro Shackleton or a front-on plan view of a TSR-2.
Any other suggestions? Aircraft that fit the relative outline of the bird on the pickguard. All welcome.
Go with the Shackleton, contra rotating props rule!
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My cream Tokai T-bird has arrived, and I get to play it this evening! I'm thinking of having a custom pickguard made up, with the bird image replaced with either a top-down plan of an Avro Shackleton or a front-on plan view of a TSR-2.
Any other suggestions? Aircraft that fit the relative outline of the bird on the pickguard. All welcome.
For a Reverse Thunderbird, the choice is clear: (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Grumman-X29-InFlight.jpg/799px-Grumman-X29-InFlight.jpg)
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Sigh, a most prevalent design crime ...
(http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/Gibson-Loses-Mind-Over-Christmas-The-Reverse-Flying-V-Guitar-4.png)
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They are both from the same time period as well. The X-29 test program ran from 1984-1991. Most of what was learned from it was ported into the flight control software of "normal" looking aircraft, but without the X-29, there would be no F-22 or F-35. Russia also had a similar program the Sukhoi Su-47 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-47)
(http://www.sukhoi.org/img/gallery/wallpaper/2.jpg)
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(http://www.armaholic.com/datas/users/steamworkshop_webupload_previewfile_332435304_preview_4.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_tkCfEhSc8
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I'm going to have to go with the Hostess with the Mostest and go with the Shackleton. Eventually.... 8)
Had a spin on the Tokai T-bird. The thing is massive. I'd forgotten just how big these things are. :o It is far longer than any of my other basses, which creates some issues with storage and transportation. None of my stands like it either. :rolleyes:
The pickguard is bleach white, almost blue against the cream paintwork. I'm going to get it out in the sunshine over the next few weeks where possible, just to give it some colour.
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Re the stand... I use one with a central swivel point which tilts to suit any instrument shape - some prefer to use racks that allow for sideways storage...
Re the scratchplate... wear you Alba pride on your bass and have the Lion, Rampant...!
Your knowledge on TSR2 is better than the average (tips hat) but some add info for any interested parties...
It is a fact that the peculiarity that "blinded" the crew, albeit temporarily, on landing, was part of an unresolved vibration fault associated with the undercarriage, causing a "shake", the frequency of which was similar to that of sight... that must have been a bugger of a thing to discover the first time XR219 touched down... :o
(http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145476&stc=1&d=1161316849)
This is (afaik) at Brooklands in the 60's - foreground may be XR223 or 228, neatly sliced into three lumps and missing the wing/tail...
(http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachment.php?s=1f86751e7ee222b6bafbd2f37b5affef&attachmentid=143029&stc=1&d=1158883669)
XR223 or 228, as above, prior to slice-and-dice...
There are well known images of XR219 with shell holes in the fuselage... they have (had) the "stick" on a mount, for posterity, in their office... no later images have ever turned up...
XR221 and 223 also went with 219 to Shoeburyness (Foulness)
Several wing sections were to be found there in the 70's, iirc...
XR220, the one that "infamously" fell off the back of a lorry and should have flown, was used for engine testing post cancellation... this, the most complete airframe, is on display at RAF Museum Cosford in the UK Midlands...
XR222 is structurally and visually complete, and on display at IWM Duxford...
There is a cockpit section at Brooklands that was never part of a complete airframe and not scheduled to be... this is stored adjacent to Delta Golf and not in the "long grass" - this is my local museum and I have a few pictures of this section...
There are four, maybe five engines I am aware of... there are probably more, unidentified... the one I posted (ebay) I believe was only found in 2010...
No TSR2 reference site seems to know of any radar systems still around, but as noted by Alanko, pieces turn up...
There is a well known image of multiple chopped-up sections in a scrappies yard...
Newark has an engine cover; maybe an engine...
Alanko... if you are on FB then join the TSR2 pages (I can pm) and there are a couple of "genuine" TSR2 people that would be interested in knowing more, if they do not already know... I personally know a RAF veteran (Eng, one time 230 Sqn) that witnessed the lorry debacle at Boscombe... it is an interesting tale and so stupidly avoidable...
This is a fairly good forum site (http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?62591-TSR-2-Memories-project&s=1f86751e7ee222b6bafbd2f37b5affef) for additional info and some pictures... there is mention of the final fate of XR219 and the most likely destinations of the leftovers...
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Hello Highlander!
These are supposedly the TSR2 formers, as recovered at Brooklands. Another piece of the TSR2 puzzle that was officially lost but then skulked back out into the open.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4023/4252364460_4d30248a9e_b.jpg)
I was under the impression that XR222 was the best of a bad bunch. Visually it is most complete but there is still avionics missing and many cut wires.
As to the famous Foulness image of XR219...
(http://www.dragonhd.demon.co.uk/images/tsr2/target.jpg)
Supposedly a similar quantity or XR219 was removed from Foulness in the late '70s or so, and was disposed of by the much loved Hanningfield Metals. A collector discovered the front fuselage under a tarp and somehow saved it. Given the politics behind TSR2, the nasty chemicals tested on the aircraft on Foulness (radioactive or furiously corrosive) and the fact that Hanningfield had a contract to honour, I find it hard to believe that they would let stuff slip out the back gate. Given the size of the Brooklands cockpit trainer it would be some job to smuggle that sort of thing around.
Wing sections of XR219 did survive into the early '90s and were supposedly saved by the late John Hallett, whose Sea Vixen resides at Solent Sky. The wing sections were subjected to chemical testing, so the Hallett story might also be a myth. I've seen an aerial image of the Foulness ranges from the early '90s, and large panels in anti-flash white are visible, alongside Vulcan parts. From the ground;
(http://www.abpic.co.uk/images/images/1054935M.jpg)
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Pet Plane Sematary!!!
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Isn't that a Ramones album? :mrgreen:
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Yes, recommended for young parents, Gage is a real sweetheart with a healthy suspicion for elderly people going after his ass:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka-x_1Dqj2g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3J0iwwsq-w
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I joined the TSR2 page on FB. Seems like they enjoy a rumour as well. 8)
I'm slowly replacing the black tuners with chrome ones on my Tokai T-bird. It already looks better!
I guess Dee Dee Ramone never used a T-bird?
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PM in progress...
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How.... mysterious. 8)
In the mean time, here's Dee Dee!!
(http://www.rockometer.com/ramones/equipment/ddtiedie.jpg)
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What's that...?
Brooklands has been somewhat sanitised in recent years, with a big Tesco's, Merc-World having swallowed up a major chunk of runway... last major landing here was a Vanguard, and that (unbelievably) touched down off the end of the runway, undamaged...
Rather splendidly, the baby Concorde that used to grace the roundabout at the entry tunnel to LHR (but was kicked out of her home by a rather bloated Arabic A380) now graces a roundabout in the centre of the Brooklands "arena"...
I hope to visit at least once more before heading north...
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How.... mysterious. 8)
In the mean time, here's Dee Dee!!
(http://www.rockometer.com/ramones/equipment/ddtiedie.jpg)
Cool pic. love the bass!
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Hamer...?
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What's that...?
I found the picture on Flickr, and the photographer claimed they were TSR2 formers. I don't know what formers should look like, so I cannot comment.
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No, not the formers, which may or may not have been those beasties... I knew about those...
Dee-Dee's bass... :mrgreen:
There was a story (Air Pictorial) that some of the scrap was sold to Hoover for washing machines; either that or Labour wanted to launder some of the filthy lucre...!
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... I was under the impression that XR222 was the best of a bad bunch. Visually it is most complete but there is still avionics missing and many cut wires.
Story goes that she was an assemblage of components and may not have been a complete work... I have a highly detailed set of images of both surviving airframes... there was a serious push to get XR220 airborne in the 80's, with redeveloped (read Concorde) intakes and better engines (that would have been fun, getting the proverbial quart into the pint pot), but like so many dreams...
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"I'm slowly replacing the black tuners with chrome ones on my Tokai T-bird. It already looks better!"
Sigh, I'm stuck here in a leper colony of twisted and warped chrome lovers ...
(http://www.molodezhnaja.ch/film/tigervoneschnapur11.jpg)
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If it adjusts tuning accurately, it's a good tuner in my book. regardless of race creed color or national origin.
My sixer has black tuners. They tune just fine.
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I have a project lined up for the black hardware I remove from the Tokai.
In short, I have a pair of Schaller JBX pickups and a much abused Cort GB24 bass. I've coated the fretboard with CA and buffed to a high gloss, not unlike the neck of a Rickenbacker. I plan to install the pickups in the Rickenbacker positions, add a bass-cut cap to the bridge pickup and get a custom pickguard made up that is 80% of the Cort original and 20% Rickenbacker 4005 (down by the controls). The bass will get the black tuners and bridge off of the Tokai.
I've broken the back of this project but I need to get the neck up and running first.
As for the Tokai, it seems everybody overlooks just how versatile a T-bird is. Yes, you can slam them with a pick and it comes out sounding good. However, fingerstyle on the bridge pickup sounds like any number of modern Jazz bass tones. Turn down the tone on the neck pickup and you have a nice dubby/Motown sound. 8)
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Very true about the many tones you can get from a Thunderbird. FWIW on the black hardware there are some basses that almost demand it, like a Kubicki, and that's fine. On T Birds it does they no good with the possible exception of a post' 88 in natural finish.
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That last post should be regarded as of inconsequential nature. :mrgreen:
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There's been several mentions of Brooklands in this thread. It's in Weybridge, Surrey...about ten miles from where I type this.
Just for clarity, anyone remember the film Those Magnificent Men In Their Flying Machines? I've detailed a few photos below. See that grey cement off in the distance? Brooklands...long before it was carved to pieces and sold off in chunks. Hell, if it was in the US, it would be known as the Historical Brooklands Motor Speedway or something. In the UK, nah. We just cut it up and sell it in pieces to the highest bidders...supermarkets and Mercedes Benz.
(http://fs149.www.ex.ua/show/39277691/39277691.png?1600)
(http://img11.nnm.me/b/8/f/b/0/bc5d518a24f95d15d0e5e523b21.jpg)
(http://www.imcdb.org/i011212.jpg)
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I'm closer... It's my local Tesco's too... :P
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That last post should be regarded as of inconsequential nature. :mrgreen:
You know I will fly to your homeland and you'll regret it! ;)
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You might best try a sneak in through Edinburgh in the slingbacks (no one will notice a purple haired tranny during the "Festival" season as there'd be so many of them already there), then slide down the east coast (practising your 4 Yorkshiremen sketch) and take the ferry from Hull to the Nederlands, not forgetting to have packed the camo-skirt, then sneak across the border into the Fatherland, and maybe slip up the back way to his eyrie and catch him unawares... ;)
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You might best try a sneak in through Edinburgh in the slingbacks (no one will notice a purple haired tranny during the "Festival" season as there'd be so many of them already there)...
The last thing I need is competition! :rolleyes:
I recently saw an Urbexer's report on the underground bunkers at Brooklands. I've no idea how he got in, but there is quite a labyrinth hidden away in there.
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You know I will fly to your homeland and you'll regret it! ;)
Not in a Fliegende Festung again!!! We've just rebuilt everything!!!
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Not in a Fliegende Festung again!!! We've just rebuilt everything!!!
I'll leave the 8th Airforce at home ;)
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I really enjoyed Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines. Perhaps my favorite part was Gert Frobe as Colonel Manfred von Holstein, providing his own martial music by mouth while marching out to his plane and opening the manual.
(http://pxhst.co/avaxhome/19/2d/00102d19_medium.jpeg)
As a good German officer, of COURSE he would have marching music, and of COURSE he would follow the manual.
But my favorite movie of that genre was The Great Race with Tony Curtis, Jack Lemmon and a great cast. It even had flying devices in it!
(http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0e/69/df/0e69df323f7c5b64799751aed3b3f302.jpg)
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I've not seen Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines since I was a kid. I watched a trailer for it on YT last night, and the special effects don't seem quite so special.
I remember a similar phenomenon when I watched the film 'Mosquito Squadron' the second time. At one point a Mosquito crashes, and it is quite clearly a small scale model projecting a shadow on some poorly painted scenery. The 'squadron' itself is made up using crude film doubling techniques, though they did scrape together a good collection of then-flyable Mosquitos for the film. I don't remember much else about the film, other than that it all took place around a prison castle in Germany... :-\ As a young 'un I found all the killing a bit overwhelming.
My 'Rok Sak' arrived yesterday, alongside a cheap Badass II clone. The bridge is safely on the Tokai, and I also installed three Tele-style barrel knobs. My chroming is now complete for the time being, until I pluck up the stones to re-skin some pickups and re-route accordingly.
Tomorrow I go modding project hunting. My plan is to still make a bass that sounds like a Rickenbacker, out of some neglected mutt. I'm trawling the pawnbrokers for Staggs, Washburn Lyons, Squier Broncos etc. I'm looking for a bass where, with some judicious routing and a new pickguard, I can drop pickups into the 24th and 36th fret positions, stick a bass-cut cap on the bridge pickup and get a Rick-like tone. Something along the lines of a Stingray would work, as I've seen Dave Meros rocking out on a modded OLP.
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I ran the video Shootout thru the Google online translator and it is HILARIOUS!!!
He basically says "See all these stupidly expensive vintage Gibsons and their shitty modern reproductions that Henry J has no idea how to build correctly? Whay bother buying them when for half the price you can buy the better made Asian copy you see here. It even comes in more colors than a Gibson or Epiphone. We suggest Gibson should completely eliminate making ALL BASSES beginning in 2016, until they learn how to do it correctly as they did back in the 1960s."
Wow! Looks like Gibson took them seriously. :)
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I ran the video Shootout thru the Google online translator and it is HILARIOUS!!!
He basically says "See all these stupidly expensive vintage Gibsons and their shitty modern reproductions that Henry J has no idea how to build correctly? Whay bother buying them when for half the price you can buy the better made Asian copy you see here. It even comes in more colors than a Gibson or Epiphone. We suggest Gibson should completely eliminate making ALL BASSES beginning in 2016, until they learn how to do it correctly as they did back in the 1960s."
Wow! Looks like Gibson took them seriously. :)
:mrgreen: