The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Outpost Cafe => Topic started by: westen44 on February 27, 2013, 12:44:01 AM
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su-brFIiIgA
After saying in a thread the other day that this studio version of "Shotgun" by the Vanilla Fudge was almost impossible to find, I ran across this almost by accident. The music may no longer be considered au courant. However, Tim Bogert and Carmine Appice are awesome as far as I'm concerned.
-
And by the imposters' own admission, they were the blueprint for Deep Purple.
I know it's uncool to like Vanilla Fudge, but I always did and continue too. Hey, I even liked Cactus and Beck, Bogert & Appice!
-
I listened to that album every day after coming home from high school...every day. It has a live side two...awesome.
-
I know it's uncool to like Vanilla Fudge
Since when would that be?
I think that Vanilla Fudge is so obscure these days that far too few people care to have an opinion about them.
-
not over here. that live lp is a good one.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su-brFIiIgA
After saying in a thread the other day that this studio version of "Shotgun" by the Vanilla Fudge was almost impossible to find, I ran across this almost by accident. The music may no longer be considered au courant. However, Tim Bogert and Carmine Appice are awesome as far as I'm concerned.
One of my best friends knows Timmy and Carmine since the Cactus days so i have gotten to know them fairly well. About 12 years or so ago they released a "new" version of the vanilla fudge album with the girl on the cover and we got to play the cd release party and hung out with them and they played a little with us. stayed friends with the keyboard player named bill Pascal who was with them at the time.... Carmine is so cool and true rockstar. Timmy has issues, always has. Just a great bass player who can't get along with people, especially guitar players. About 10 years or so the fudge where playing BB kIngs in NYC and Timmy got sick and i got the call to be on standby. Then TM Stevens was tracked down thank god as filling Tim's shoes is a scary spot. As a bass player they are top 2 or 3 rhythm sections ever for me but i can understand tp some degree why guitarists have issues but thats mainly because if they had realtime they would be bass players anyway.... :-)
-
Wow. I probably haven't heard that song in 40 years.
Brings me back to the days of corded phones, black and white TV and taping pennies to the top of the needle arm.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyTFmmyIYII
-
The original version came out exactly 100 years after the end of the Civil War. The Vanilla Fudge version was released only a few years after that. When looked at within that context, it does make me realize just how old this really is (the Jr. Walker and Vanilla Fudge versions.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI7CtxlisCk
-
Hey, I even liked Cactus and Beck, Bogert & Appice!
Wow. I haven't heard mention of "Cactus" in decades. I got to see them live at an festival here in Missouri back in '74. I enjoyed their show!
-
A few years ago when MySpace was still hot I got in touch with Jimmy Kunes.
He's a nice chap. And he's the lead singer of the reunited Cactus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDN0jlFSrqg
-
Wow. I haven't heard mention of "Cactus" in decades. I got to see them live at an festival here in Missouri back in '74. I enjoyed their show!
They were never cool, even uncooler than Foghat, but this version of Long Tall Sally sure is!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUjMCbZ2E60
-
Since when would that be?
I think that Vanilla Fudge is so obscure these days that far too few people care to have an opinion about them.
Back in the day already. Their concept of slowed down grooves, lava-thick instrumentation and extended jams (emulated by bands such as Iron Butterfly, Bloodrock, Grand Funk Railroad) wore thin with rock critics pretty quickly - The Velvet Underground they weren't even if they probably sold more records and could deliver better live. Vanilla Fudge suffered for "only playing covers" and not having a "charismatic frontman".
-
Led Zeppelin opened up for Vanilla Fudge in 1968 or 1969. Also, I noticed that Vanilla Fudge did an album of Zep covers in 2009 (Out Through the Door.) I would be interested in listening to that sometime. I'm not really sure which Fudge members are on this album.
-
Original lineup...
-
Make no mistake: To young DP those guys were gods. As they themselves said: "We wanted to be the English Vanilla Fudge, outfudge the Fudge so to say, ... I don't think we ever did ...". But they were extremely chuffed when they met VF on one of their early DP tours there (Mark I line up).
When Tony Ashton and Jon Lord staged their First of the Big Bands project in London for a one-off concert in the mid-seventies, Carmine got to play along Ian Paice and the two had an ectremely entertaining drum "battle", actually it was more of an engaged percussive conversation. They are not that far apart stylistically, but different enough that you can easily tell them apart.
Mothers Army, that thinking man's hard rock project that lasted three albums, but never toured, and featured Carmine, Daisley, Turner and Watson (the guy at Nightranger without the whammy bar! :mrgreen:), has some nice drumming of his too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw0nb1XB-Dk
-
Original lineup...
Thanks, I looked it up but finally gave up.
-
Back in the day already. Their concept of slowed down grooves, lava-thick instrumentation and extended jams (emulated by bands such as Iron Butterfly, Bloodrock, Grand Funk Railroad) wore thin with rock critics pretty quickly - The Velvet Underground they weren't even if they probably sold more records and could deliver better live. Vanilla Fudge suffered for "only playing covers" and not having a "charismatic frontman".
Not having a frontman and only playing covers were definitely flaws. There were lesser bands out there without those flaws. Also, their second album was a very bad idea and they had some radically serious management problems. On the other hand, just the song "You Keep Me Hanging On," obviously their most well-known song was listened to in awe by the psychedelic crowd. Not only was the music itself great, but the vocals were also very good. The song seems to be better suited as a male singing about a female, in my opinion. The mental picture of unrequited love is vivid. It comes across as much more convincing than the Supremes version which was a big hit in its own right, though.
-
I couldn't get all the way through that Shotgun video. Junior Walker's is far superior, IMHO.
-
Not having a frontman and only playing covers were definitely flaws. There were lesser bands out there without those flaws. Also, their second album was a very bad idea and they had some radically serious management problems. On the other hand, just the song "You Keep Me Hanging On," obviously their most well-known song was listened to in awe by the psychedelic crowd. Not only was the music itself great, but the vocals were also very good. The song seems to be better suited as a male singing about a female, in my opinion. The mental picture of unrequited love is vivid. It comes across as much more convincing than the Supremes version which was a big hit in its own right, though.
I'm a convert already! YKMHO in the VF version is unrivaled. I like Motown and The Supremes and unashamedly play Upsidedown in our corporate band, but we all know that little Diana got the job as lead singer with The Supremes because her voice was less emotional and raw than that of most female Motown singers, she sounded like a white girl and could look non-threateningly black too. Anything to get on white radio.
Not that VF were exactly "unexpressive" in their visual presentation! :mrgreen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFabNBveHOk
And I bet no one except Ken and me know these guys here, forgotten NWOBHMsters with their cover of a cover ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TSl1zxtFY0
-
I couldn't get all the way through that Shotgun video. Junior Walker's is far superior, IMHO.
Can't you ever surprise, Dave? 8)
-
Can't you ever surprise, Dave? 8)
Guess not. ;D
Anyway, here's my favorite version of You Keep Me Hanging On.
I wonder if women still throw their panties at TJ.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgRr-lvdSGk
-
I wonder if women still throw their panties at TJ.
I've heard they do, but they look more like Boy Scout tents these days.
-
I couldn't get all the way through that Shotgun video. Junior Walker's is far superior, IMHO.
I always loved Walker's solo @ 2:56 mark on this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA6id4--BDg
-
I'm a convert already! YKMHO in the VF version is unrivaled. I like Motown and The Supremes and unashamedly play Upsidedown in our corporate band, but we all know that little Diana got the job as lead singer with The Supremes because her voice was less emotional and raw than that of most female Motown singers, she sounded like a white girl and could look non-threateningly black too. Anything to get on white radio.
Not that VF were exactly "unexpressive" in their visual presentation! :mrgreen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFabNBveHOk
And I bet no one except Ken and me know these guys here, forgotten NWOBHMsters with their cover of a cover ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TSl1zxtFY0
As I've already said, Carmine Appice's drumming on "Shotgun" is phenomenal. So, is Tim Bogert's bass playing, of course. That rhythm section, although maybe not so much acknowledged by the general public, was one of the best, IMO. Of course, I really do like Jr. Walker and the Allstars and the Supremes, too. It's all great music. I think I may have heard of Nightwing, but I've never heard any of their music, to my knowledge.
At around 3:00, Tim Bogert starts trading licks with Jeff Beck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzX_65cHEJs
-
Bogert and Appice not an acknowledged rhythm section - huh? That's like saying Lennon/McCartney are not an acknowledged songwriting team. :o I cannot think of one without the other, it's like pepper and salt to me. I don't even know the names of the other players in the bands they went through, VA, Cactus and BBA ... Ok, in the last one the guitarist was Eric Clapton, but other than that?
They were an iconic rhythm section in my book, playing- and image wise. Probably the first iconic one, even ahead of Baker and Bruce.
In terms of stadium rock of course. You know how I never grew out of that.
-
Guess not. ;D
Anyway, here's my favorite version of You Keep Me Hanging On.
I wonder if women still throw their panties at TJ.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgRr-lvdSGk
I would throw my panties at him for this. In adoration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GljDF4ptCMg
-
One of my memorable concerts was The Jeff Beck Group. It was the one line-up that never recorded. We got a real treat, because we didn't know who the band was when we got there. The bass amps had CACTUS stamped all over them. The band was - Jeff Beck, Max Middleton, Tim Bogert, Carmine Appice and Kim Milford. It was about a year later that BBA emerged. It was a great show, with Argent as a bonus opener.
-
Bogert and Appice not an acknowledged rhythm section - huh? That's like saying Lennon/McCartney are not an acknowledged songwriting team. :o I cannot think of one without the other, it's like pepper and salt to me. I don't even know the names of the other players in the bands they went through, VA, Cactus and BBA ... Ok, in the last one the guitarist was Eric Clapton, but other than that?
They were an iconic rhythm section in my book, playing- and image wise. Probably the first iconic one, even ahead of Baker and Bruce.
In terms of stadium rock of course. You know how I never grew out of that.
I think the interview in which Tim Bogert talks about the recognition or lack of recognition must be in a magazine I have somewhere. In that one, he just seems grateful that people were still giving him any recognition. But from reading this interview down below, you can see that he considered his active career over because of the age factor at age 35. This is in contrast to Carmine Appice who he calls a workaholic. His comments on Jeff Beck and John Paul Jones are interesting.
http://www.geeksofdoom.com/2011/09/25/interview-cactus-and-vanilla-fudge-bass-player-tim-bogert
-
The Billy Sheehan bass clinic I went to, Sheehan talked about being really nervous when Tim Bogert showed up at a clinic Sheehan did previously. He was stumbling over describing a technique, and Bogert just answered from the crowd, "It's called 'raking'"
-
One of my best friends knows Timmy and Carmine since the Cactus days so i have gotten to know them fairly well. About 12 years or so ago they released a "new" version of the vanilla fudge album with the girl on the cover and we got to play the cd release party and hung out with them and they played a little with us. stayed friends with the keyboard player named bill Pascal who was with them at the time.... Carmine is so cool and true rockstar. Timmy has issues, always has. Just a great bass player who can't get along with people, especially guitar players. About 10 years or so the fudge where playing BB kIngs in NYC and Timmy got sick and i got the call to be on standby. Then TM Stevens was tracked down thank god as filling Tim's shoes is a scary spot. As a bass player they are top 2 or 3 rhythm sections ever for me but i can understand tp some degree why guitarists have issues but thats mainly because if they had realtime they would be bass players anyway.... :-)
I have a feeling that much of this that is happening with Tim Bogert not getting along well with people may not be his fault. It's possible people are just not perceiving him accurately (at least part of the time.) See the link I posted with the interview. It's clear to me he wanted to continue working with Jeff Beck, for instance. It seemed to be Beck who had a problem, not Bogert.
-
The Billy Sheehan bass clinic I went to, Sheehan talked about being really nervous when Tim Bogert showed up at a clinic Sheehan did previously. He was stumbling over describing a technique, and Bogert just answered from the crowd, "It's called 'raking'"
Great story. ;D