The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Outpost Cafe => Topic started by: uwe on December 05, 2008, 02:59:31 AM
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I saw Whitesnake opening for Alice Cooper last Friday.
Rumors that Coverdale's voice is so shot by now (I still think his mid-eighties vocal cords operation is to blame for it, he reached stratospheric heights on the 1987 album - and he doesn't naturally have a voice like that at all -, but never sounded like himself again live) that he mimes part of Whitesnake's performance on this tour have abounded on the net and on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK8qGWEjjBs
I did not want to believe it - EX-DP members don't do that my fervent loyalty to the cause told me.
So I stood real close when Whitesnake hit the stage. The Coverdale voice coming out of the speakers on the first few songs was either inaudible/badly mixed/distorted or it was clean and clear, totally disassociated from the music and what was going on on stage. We all know how heavy microphone breathing is Coverdale's trademark - you hear none of that. He stretches the mike farther away from himself, yet his voice gets louder. He holds the mike frequently into the audience for sing-along chorusses and beams happily, yet at the same time you hear the chorus sung by the band with his lead voice prominently in front. Sad. This is the same guy who auditioned with DP and got the job of following Gillan as an unknown on the strength of singing bluesy versions of the Beatles' Yesterday and Nilson's Everybody's talking "without hardly ever using the original melody" (Ian Paice).
What he obviously has is a guide/safetynet vocal track running throughout and he sings along with that sometimes (and not very well as regards pitch). Two acoustic songs were done (Deeper the Love and Ain't gonna cry no more) and while they were in a deeper register where his voice can still sound rich, even those weren't live all the way through. It was horrible.
His backing band ain't bad, I liked Aldrich's and Beach's guitar interplay, the new drummer has more feel than Aldridge and the Asian bass player is cute (and knows it), I was sometimes wondering whether he and Herr Beach have become an item ... not creating rumours here!!! With a better singer they could be quite some band.
I've meanwhile heard from someone who mixed Whitesnake in the past that Coverdale has been working with a vocal backing track to some extent on former tours too, but that these tricks pale in comparison to the mass deception of this tour.
It hurt to get that out. If essentially a dance act like Madonna does a couple of tracks with playback I don't mind, she has other things to do and think of after all. But Coverdale? It's time to get a haircut, David, let some grey show, stop the botox, tune a few steps down and sing in that rich baritone that got you out of Redcar in the first place. As a performer you should now be orienting yourself more on vintage Van Morrison than a young Robert Plant which you never were in the first place. When he left DP, Coverdale mouthed off that he was "sick and tired of screaming his balls off over the music". Ironically, that is what he has been doing without DP for the better part of the last three decades.
How was Alice Cooper? Great - I've seen him twice before (early eighties as an anorectic alcoholic on the Special Forces Tour at Cobo Hall, Detroit, and comparatively recently opening for DP), he was never nearly as good as this. Cooper has never been a great singer, he has no depth and a limited range and overall vocal agility, on harder songs he quickly sounds brittle, but he is wise enough not to overstep his limits. And you know something is very wrong (with Coverdale) if Cooper's ten years senior voice sounds fuller and more agile than Coverdale's. Great young band too (all of them unknown to me, except for Eric Singer on the drums who is very entertaining to watch and listen to, all 5 foot 2" of him! :mrgreen: ). It was heartwarming to see them hit the stage with a Gibson Les Paul, a Gibson Explorer and a Gibson Thunderbird, you can't get more iconic, can you?
Uwe
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You know you just broke someone's heart, don't you? :mrgreen:
I can't believe AC tore himself away from the golf course long enough to go out and tour!
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Geez that is bad...
I will pay good attention at the gig in Tilburg.
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Whitesnake Management felt obliged to issue a statement:
"In light of recent comments regarding Whitesnakes current live tour we felt it necessary to offer a technical explanation for Mr Coverdale's microphone technique, which appears to be responsible for initiating various threads online on the subject of playback, here are some comments from Bradley Johnson Whitesnake's very highly regarded Front Of House engineer...
It is the goal of every front of house engineer to provide the best quality audio to as many ticket purchasing patrons as possible. The factors that have a direct influence on this include: room acoustics; type, size and quality of the PA system: performance of the musicians: stage volume of the backline gear; even temperature and humidity. I work extremely hard to accommodate David's mic technique. I endeavour to make every syllable and nuance of his vocal heard no matter how far the microphone strays from the sweet spot. Getting a vocal mic audible over a juggernaut guitar rig when it is three feet from a singers mouth is no small task... Some nights I win, some nights i do not... As far as running tracks live,,,,,ludicrous.
For those of you that interpret and confuse the strength and technique of Mr Coverdale's vocal (combined with the abilities of our front of house engineer) for playback are very much mistaken."
(Whitesnake Management November 24th 2008)
The truth and nuthin' but the truth. :-\
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I saw Whitesnake opening for Alice Cooper last Friday.
Were you wearing your suit? ;D
It's time to get a haircut, David, let some grey show, stop the botox,
Are we sure the hair was real? After all, some Purple and Rainbow members have been gluing their tresses on for years!
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"Were you wearing your suit?"
Naw, casual Friday!
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Hmmm.... not sure what to make of that note from management... :rolleyes:
I do have to say that the singer for one of my favorite bands - MUSE - is frequently way off mic, and still sounding strong. I really don't think he's singing to tracks just based on watching and listening to the phrasing, etc.
On a related note, I know some guys on the Crue tour who told me that Nikki's "amp rack" contains a Pro Tools rig. And it's NOT there for recording....
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I'm shocked. Next I suppose you're going to try to tell me that the Beach Boys and Monkees used studio musicians.
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Now tell me why an experienced singer like David Coverdale decides to throw overboard all his microphone technique and starts waving his mike in random directions while singing? Oh yes of course! To make it as hard as possible for his sound engineer to get a decent sound every night.
He must be paying him a king's ransom
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I'm a rebel. Tell me not to do somethin' & I have to look into it to see WHY.
I can't believe this. Coverdale's still The Best Singer On Earth.
I saw WS twice in 2003 & thrice in 2005 & DC was utterly amazing!!!!!
Tell the truth, Uwe. You were holding your lighter high & singing every word. Weren't ya?
Everyone in the crowd sings every word. That's why DC calls us The WS Choir.
You say it was horrible, Uwe, but I don't believe it.
You don't like Zep, you don't like Doro, you don't like WHITESNAKE now.
I think there's something terribly wrong with your HEARING.
Maybe it's not your ears, but evidently there's some probs with your mind & heart.
Hey~ even if there is vocal tracks being used, which I highly doubt, then so what?
I saw Within Temptation open for Lacuna Coil last year & they both used recorded tracks.
I admit it was kinda weird & unecessary--they would've sounded fine without 'em.
Guess they want their performances to match their recordings as much as possible.
So whatever it takes to sound First Class. Never mind what someone's phone camera recorded.
Get the WS DVD if you want to hear how incredible they sound.
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In defense of the Monkees, I saw the reformed/reconfigured band in the 80s, and I can say in all honesty that Mickey Dolenz is one of the best singers and showmen I have ever seen live. Sure, they didn't play everything (Peter Tork did actually) but no tapes there. And he sings with more balls than Coverdale, fer real.
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You won't find me criticizing the Monkees. Good pop music, some of it great, and they were great performers.
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Whitesnake Management felt obliged to issue a statement:
Now that pegged the Bullshitometer.
They really think people are that stupid? :rolleyes:
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Sad it seem true........... :-\
I like Coverdale and WS alot, sometimes you have to face the inevitable. Call me naive but I've always thought if you were gonna put something out there, it outta be the real deal, otherwise call it (like eb2 says) karoake and have some integrity. WS and Coverdale shouldn't have to stoop to the Britney Spears level........... :-[
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I had little doubt that you would read this thread, R'n'B! ;)
"Get the WS DVD if you want to hear how incredible they sound."
I have that DVD (and a couple of others too). It is incredibly doctored, Coverdale is not singing live on that for sure, he must have overdubbed 80% of it in the studio, the vocals are so incredibly effortless and smooth on it, even great singers at the peak of their abilities don't sing like that during a live concert. If you want testimony for Coverdale's (former) prowess as a singer listen to the California Jam DVD with Purple where he bellows his way through the set with sweat, charm and aplomb, not the sanitized and effects-ladden studio vocal track on the last WS live DVD offering.
No, and I wasn't singing along, I was shaken (not stirred) as I watched and listened. I've been playing music long enough, I know how someone sounds live over a microphone and I know what happens if he has the mike at the waist while he is singing: No soundman on earth will be able to rectify that without picking up the Marshalls blaring on stage. Coverdale is one of my favorite singers (when he's not trying to emulate Plant) and now this.
And whatever I've said about Zep (as a DP fan you can't reall like Zep - it's like fire and water and Plant always knocked DP where he could) or Doro: I've seen both of them live (Zep as Page/Plant) and they certainly sing live, both have integrity even if their music doesn't blow me away. And I don't have issues with Zep tuning their instruments a few steps down on the O2 concert at all to accomodate Plant's range as a 60 year old. That is not cheating to me, but rather doing the sensible, musical thing: If you can't sing a song well anymore in A, then sing it well in G. In fact, most of the downtuned Zep stuff I even preferred as I never liked Plant's more histrionic banshee wailing as a young man in the first place.
I have my heroes too, but that doesn't make me deaf. I've seen Blackmore in brilliant form and I've seen him so lousy at a 93 DP gig a couple of days later after the brilliant one that I knew that his tenure with the Purps would soon be over. Which it was, about two weeks later when he left the band in Scandinavia.
But I suggest you see WS on their next US tour, get up close to the stage, remember your last rehearsal or live gig with a singer and then watch Coverdale's "mike technique". And then tell me that he does those screams on "In the still of the night" really live.
To end this on a positive note: I've finally gotten around to recording The Government tracks of pre-DP young Coverdale for you (performing songs from Chicago and from the Boxtops, would you believe?). My PA is photocopying the booklet for you as I type. Package will be going out today.
Uwe
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If you want testimony for Coverdale's (former) prowess as a singer listen to the California Jam DVD with Purple where he bellows his way through the set with sweat, charm and aplomb
Not to mention fighting off insects!
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WooHooo! Thanks a lot, Uwe! I'd forgotten all about the Government!
That'll make a great Christmas present.
I have the Cali Jam DVD of course. It is FANFOKKINGTASTIC!
I have a bootleg of CP in Osaka & also DC with Sykes, Murray & Powell in Japan too!!
You betcha I'll be at a WS gig or 3 when they tour Cali again.
Even if there's a recorded track it won't bother me.
Maybe DC needs a little help to remember the words now. heh
I got some lyric sheets from off the stage in 2003...still got 'em somewhere.
The songs are great & it's also about the music---none of that was pre-recorded, was it?
David's always had great players workin' with him, & the current lineup is GREAT!
The chicks at WS shows are worth the cost of admission! (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/b300/Squidley/NightSquid/banana.gif)
I saw The Robbie Krieger Band back in '95 & it was cool cuz as you probly know, Robbie's voice is high & squeaky...but it didn't matter cuz the crowd singin' every word sounded like a HUGE Morrison--deeep & strong!
Coverdale shouldn't be worried about sounding like the recordings.
The WS Choir augments the vocals just fine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How didja like the new songs LIVE? Didn't they do 3 or 5 off Good To Be Bad?
Gotta give The Man credit for puttin' out The Album o' the Year & not just resting on his laurels.
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As much as I like Coverdale and Whitesnake, I've always thought that Glenn Hughes was the better singer of the pair. He's the one I've followed through the years.
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Hughes is no doubt the more agile singer with a greater range, but what his voice forever lacks is the warm authority of Coverdale's. When Hughes sings Burn (the parts he did not sing originally) or Mistreated (on which he did not sing at all except for a few ooohs and aaahs at the end), he hits all the notes, but none of Coverdale's emotion. Hughes' vocal acrobatics quickly get on women's nerves for instance, but they swoon at Coverdale's rich baritone.
Re your question Terr: Yup, they played a couple of new tracks as well, and with aplomb if you discount Coverdale's vocals who struggled on the new stuff especially. I remember "Best Years" and that cracker of a Doug Aldrich riff song where Cov' sings "Over the mountain ...", "Can you hear the wind blow" is the title I believe.
I'm too European to ever not miss the Lord/Marsden/Moody/Murray/Paice line up, but this current line up is better than any other one I've seen in the last 25 WS years. Beach and Aldrich work better as a pair (and keep getting better at it) than Moody/Galley, Galley/Sykes (who was sloppy live), Vandenberg/Campbell (who was bored live, but seems to be happy with Def Leppard), Vandenberg/Vai (it was horrible to see how Vai was basically taking the piss on WS' music which did not challenge or inspire him) or Vandenberg/DeMartini. It was nice to see that Aldrich has now replaced his solo spot with one where he "duels" with Beach and at one especially entertaining point they even do reverse pastiches of the other guy's styles. All in good humor. That is what I go to concerts for, not to listen to friggin' tapes!!!
The new bass player and the new drummer are no Neil Murray and Ian Paice, but I liked them better than the Sarzo/Aldridge or the Mendoza/Aldridge tandem. I always found Aldridge battering the blues out of WS' music.
Uwe
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IMHO, WS ceased to be genuine after Sykes joined the band. Nice guy, but his playing always sounded like second-rate Gary Moore to me. I could do without the gyrating, fretboard-tapping, bass-licking silliness that followed - not to mention how they desecrated and re-recorded the older songs.
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Good observation. Moore's influence on Sykes was palpable. To be fair, Sykes has matured a lot since his days as a young man and his day job in a Thin Lizzy tribute band pretending to be Brian Robertson keeps him fed. I'll also give him credit for making 1987 the guitar album that it is. The sound of his guitar on that album is monstrous and Vandenberg/Campbell or Vandenberg/Vai could never replicate it live.
"Bass-licking silliness" - LOL. Rudy Sarzo can be a great bass player, but his "grab hair, lick headstock"-posing was horrible. I saw a comparatively recent Dio live vid, he's luckily stopped doing it though he is still strutting too much for a band like Dio.
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Thanks a lot for the Pre-Purple People cd, Uwe! The Government tracks are outstanding!!!!
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Glad you like it. The quality of young Coverdale's voice explains why as a total unknown he got Gillan's job in 1973 (after Paul Rodgers had preferred his new project Bad Company to Purple, miffed how Purple's management had mentioned his name to the press when he was still deliberating; when Hughes joined DP in 1973, he still did so on the assumption that he would get to sing alongside Rodgers as the DP management presented negotiations with Rodgers as a done deal) based on outdated demos and a pic of himself in a boyscout uniform. When he joined Purple, he was overweight and cross-sighted. Purple's management and ever image-conscious Blackmore, eager to have a goodlooking guy follow angelic Ian Gillan, force-fed him slimming pills (with psychological ill-effects like mood swings etc) and had his eyes treated surgically in time for the first press pics (where Coverdale is still wearing glasses following the operation).
It was Ian Paice who noticed Coverdale's voice in the deluge of demo tapes that flooded Purple's management offices. He also picked him up at the train station (Coverdale was from "up north"), fittingly in a purple E-Type Paice called his own back then.
Actually, it was a case of the postman ringing twice with Coverdale: While DP were touring the north of England in 1969 still with their first line-up singer Rod Evans, Coverdale's band The Government opened for them one night and Purple were impressed enough to take his telephone number down just in case their then new singer waiting in the aisles (unbeknownst to Rod Evans), a guy called Ian Gillan, should not work out. Well, Gillan did work out and went on to front the legendary and record sales-amassing Mk II version of DP, but Coverdale's second chance came when Gillan handed in his notice in 1972 (he honored touring committments and stayed on for almost another year). By then, DP had forgotten the telephone number incident, but Coverdale's voice still grabbed their attention. Other singers (besides the above-mentioned Paul Rodgers) Purple were considering at the time were John Lawton (of Lucifer's Friend/German middle of the road act Les Humphries Singers, later on with Uriah Heep), Jess Rhoden and even Graham Bonnet (later on with Rainbow).
Uwe
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I have the unauthorized WHITESNAKE book somewhere with a lotta this sort of info.
Hope someone hasn't stolen it.
Here's something you old Coverdale fans may like--MISTREATED 2006:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9s6oegRz2Q
Sounds pretty goood for a glampa, huh? hahaaa
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According to The Pulse of Radio, David Coverdale says he told Jimmy Page to back off on trying to reunite LED ZEPPELIN for a world tour and record a band album with superstar guest vocalists. Coverdale, who teamed up with Page for the short-lived 1993 COVERDALE-PAGE album and tour, explained to Uncut, "My suggestion to him when I saw him in the summer was to do what Carlos Santana did with 'Supernatural'. Get a selection of people in, because there's no question John Paul Jones writes f***ing kick-ass music. I said Joe Elliott and me would come in and do a track rather than the focus be on one person."
He went on to say, "Will people be willing to see three-quarters of the family with a guest — a cousin twice removed? I'm as curious as anyone to see how it works out... Change is good as long as you f***ing deliver. I hope it comes together for him because, Jesus, he deserves it."
Coverdale says that his most cherished collaboration was his 1993 team-up with Page, which led him to rethink how he chooses guitarists. "When I worked with Jimmy Page, that was totally inspiring for me, and you can hear that on the COVERDALE-PAGE album," he said. "And that was a great parameter for me to look at. The only people I would be prepared to work with are ones who would, who I'd feel could drive me, inspire me to go for notes I've never gone for before."
Gee Dave, nice of you to offer your services!
http://www.youtube.com/v/ndnBVty054A&hl=en&fs=1
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Coverdale says that his most cherished collaboration was his 1993 team-up with Page, which led him to rethink how he chooses guitarists.
Huh? What's changed? From Sykes onward, his guitarists of choice have been been a bunch of widdly-widdly hair farmers. Reb Belch??? Adrian Hindenburg? Where's Bernie Marsden when you need him?
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Where's Bernie Marsden when you need him?
Eating pie. :mrgreen:
Seein' Reb perform in an isolated booth at NAMM last year was the highlight of the 4 day weekend for me. I was inside the booth with him, Kip Winger & 4 others.
That's about as intimate as you can get with a Rocker without bein' a groupie.
He SHREDS!!! He's a very humble & casual guy too.
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Eating pie. :mrgreen:
:mrgreen: ;D :mrgreen: ;D
Maybe he's playing in Mammoth...
For your collection...
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/msg/963292758.html
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We did a support for Whitesnake the other day.
I was a great experience for us. The place was packed and we got a good response from the crowd.
(http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/7/l_dfe91502e8c549ceb4309b3bf032fa5f.jpg)
(http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/64/l_c124ba058f6f434bac9dc0dde060a9a5.jpg)
(http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/49/l_f6681cb35ea04f9887adca1f39830f20.jpg)
Mr. Coverdale his voice was pretty shot on this last day of the tour... on some songs his voice sounded very good and on other parts... well like Uwe said; too good to be true
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Congratulations, man! Glad to hear you & your band went down well!
Sad to hear DC get bad reviews. Alas
Mighty glad he's still ROCKIN' tho!
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Rob, what happened to Superfloor? That is a different band you're now playing with right?
That prototype hobbit looks gorgeous on you! Ich bin neidisch.
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Superfloor still exists and I'm still a member. But the live circuit in The Netherlands has plummeted. We don't have a lot of gigs.
So last summer I finally succumbed to the charms of Stonefly. I had helped them out earlier this year when they were in between bass players.
When their new found bass player didn't work out they asked me again. So now I'm in two bands.
The Hobbit Prototype is the best sound sounding bass that I have.
Plus it has large stringpost machine heads which makes tuning easier with long scale strings on this short scale bass. The only down side to this bass is the extreme low output. Even with the use of an impedance transformer you have to crank the amp way up high.
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FYI...
http://www.sleazeroxx.com/news09/0106whi.shtml
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Interesting. Might get that M3.
Saw Glenn Hughes at The Whisky in June 2007 & he ROCKED the place!
Been meaning to get Soul Mover ever since cuz the Title Track was one of my favs of the show.
Finally got it today & it's pretty badass! A lot of FUNK without being funky if ya know what I mean.
He's a great bassplayer & excellent singer...but I ain't buyin' the hype that he's The Voice of Rock.
Sounds more like The Voice of Funk to me. ...at times sounding like Rick James (bitch!) & other times the Prince of Pop---
Purple Reign hahaaa
I prefer Coverdale anyday...but Glenn is definitely worth listenin' to too!!
Chad Smith on Drums & JJ Marsh on guitars & help with songcrafting, Ed Roth on "Soulful Organic Keys"
Dave Navarro on guitar on Soul Mover & the intro to She Moves Ghostly
Good stuff.
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Definitely get Soul Mover. It's a great album. There's songs on there that are even better than "Soul Mover"
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Soul Mover kicks ass!
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Ed Roth on "Soulful Organic Keys"
I always loved the "Rat Fink" stuff. ;D
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I had Mother's Worry when I was a kid. 8)
Not the same Ed Roth tho. haha "Big Daddy" passed away in 2001.
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Hughes' voice is one of a kind and he still has amazing range (unlike Coverdale). What he totally lacks is what Coverdale has (or used to have) in abundance: the authority to fill a room with a few notes of his voice. Hughes is always hypheractive with his voice, embellishing things to death (sometimes), Coverdale can sing something quietly, low key and laid back and still grip you. To me, Hughes is a muso's singer, musicians dig what he does because they can appreciate the technique and enthusiasm behind it. Non-musicians, women in particular, are relatively unmoved by what he does and find his vocal gyrations grating. To hear what I mean:
Coverdale (trademark heavy breathers and all):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNLR3vvGAM0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gyj01YnOQOE
(my how the boy from Rrredcarrr who had his northern accent mocked by Blackmore in 1973 has adopted a nice posh London accent over the decades)
Hughes (his version of Georgia on my Mind not only splits his groin - and I have recordings where his shrieks are even higher -, but also the audience right down the middle into lovers and haters):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwE69M1uTyY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YtSfj3Enq4
But together their voices were more than the sum of the respective parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57aRkYNVYM8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VO2OsVt_nY
(where the two switch from verse to verse and sing the anthemic chorus together, that guitar solo was played with a screwdriver by the way as Blackmore was bored with the track and wanted to document just that, the outcome is one of his greatest solos though!)
If Coverdale and Hughes got back together again, recorded a selection of Motown and blues classics with someone like Rick Rubin producing, I am positive that they would be selling shitloads of CDs with their duet style and eclipse commercially anything they have done individually in the last 20 (Coverdale) or even thirty (Hughes) years.
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I think Hughes (with the exception of the Trapeze stuff) is best left as a side dish and not the meal. Select songs, like "Holy Man" are great, but in most cases an entire album of his singing gets old real fast - mainly because he still hasn't learned the art of restraint. Ever heard "A Soulful Christmas"? Sheesh. He was held back a bit on Hughes/Thrall - and that, along with characteristic 80s production made him more appealing to the unwashed masses.
With regard to Coverdale's speaking voice and accent - my old pal Ray Gillen once told me that the first time he met Coverdale, he was reminded of old James Bond movies. That was in the 80s - he doesn't sound nearly so smooth on the Cal Jam recordings, so your point is well taken, Uwe.
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But together their voices were more than the sum of the respective parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57aRkYNVYM8
Purple Reign lol
This one's appropriate for me right now...I'm moving once again...
Lookin' for a place down by the sea here in SoCal...
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I've always said that Deep Purple played it smart when Ian Gillan left. Instead of simply replacing him, they decided to hire two lead singers, and not just a bass player and singer. Burn is one of my favorite albums of theirs.