The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bass Amps & Effects => Topic started by: Tim Brosnan on December 29, 2013, 11:06:09 AM
-
Hello, this is my first post here. I have a question. It seems today that most MI amps-in fact, most electronic devices today-are only made to last for a few years, before failing. They're not even made to be repaired anymore, just tossed away when they break down. Is there any amp companies today building bass amps that are not like that? I would appreciate your opinions, thanks!
-
I am interested, also...
-
I'll probably get the hammer for this, but: Peavey.
Fantastic Technical Support for their bass amps (and their MIA products in general).
Pick up the phone, they answer. Email, they respond. Their website is great and full of support tools as well.
I only had one small issue with a ProBass 500 and I had a part in my hand in 2 days...and they wouldn't accept a dime for it.
I think their MIA bass guitars and amps were built to last.
-
I'm OK with my Genz-Benz SHuttle 6.0 but PB Guy seems to think it will melt into a puddle some day in the future and be un-repairable. All I can say is that i that's true, I'd rather tote a 3.75 pound micro-amp for a few years and replace it if needed, instead of lugging a 40-pound boat anchor amp around that lasts longer.
-
I have always liked Peavey gear, even if their older amps were like boat anchors! I saw in another thread here where PB Guy said Peavey seems to have gone downhill in the last 5 years. I have always liked Fender amps too, but I've heard the same about them-although my 7 year old Bassman 250/210 combo seems to be holding up. Genz amps are well regarded pretty much everywhere, but I guess they have ceased to exist?
-
If I wanted an older solid but inexpensive amp and didn't care about weight, I'd look for a 200-300 watt Peavey amp from the 70's that has been reconditioned. But there are plenty of good amps around.
Fender bought Genz and I'm not sure what their future prospects are. There are plenty of Shuttle series amps around used, though.
-
I would place GK on the list. their gear lasts forever and they're customer support is excellent
-
I would place GK on the list. their gear lasts forever and they're customer support is excellent
Agreed. GK has made a number of very good, durable amps, and they're lighter than the old Peaveys.
-
Aren't you guys missing the point? He's asking about amps being built today, not older amps that we know are repairable.
I don't have an answer since my last bass amp purchase was 18 years ago.
-
I'll probably get the hammer for this, but: Peavey.
Fantastic Technical Support for their bass amps (and their MIA products in general).
Pick up the phone, they answer. Email, they respond. Their website is great and full of support tools as well.
I don't think anyone will disagree about the reliability of Peavey gear (the level of support is something I wasn't familiar with, but good to know) - I've referred to them as the brick shithouses of the amp world here before myself (they really take a beating). The issue with them is more the sound; not a good reputation, as they do have a specific colour to their solid state gear that may not be for everyone. Their tube amps are really good sounding IMHO, and they also make some good speaker drive units (The Scorpion line for bass/PA is rock solid and good sounding, and the Sheffield 12s for guitar are also desirable).
As for my recommendation: I third for GK, especially the 400RB (200 watts) and related models (note, I have only used, and base my opinion on the old black and grey ones, the 400RB I, the new ones with the ovular grille on the front, the 400RB IV, I have never tried, but I assume, until I experience/hear otherwise, that they are just as good, given the pedigree) are incredibly reliable and good sounding if simple/not many bells and whistles. They (either the old or new ones) are also dirt cheap (used on ebay - any version, I through IV, can be easily had for <200; the 400RB IV is available new for about $500). Best bass amp value ever, IMHO, and solid as hell - most hourly rehearsal spaces around here are still rocking 400RBs they purchased in the 80s and that's a punishing existence let me assure you.
-
Hey Tim, there is still a lot of good stuff being made today. It may help everyone to know how big or little a hunk of hardware you're looking to pick up.
Rick
-
Hello, this is my first post here.
Welcome!
I have a question. It seems today that most MI amps-in fact, most electronic devices today-are only made to last for a few years, before failing. They're not even made to be repaired anymore, just tossed away when they break down. Is there any amp companies today building bass amps that are not like that? I would appreciate your opinions, thanks!
Any amp should be able to be fixed, but there are reasons why it may be undesirable to do so...
Most circuit boards today are designed to be manufactured by pick-and-place robots, and use miniaturized versions of the components used in older electronics (called surface mount devices; SMD). People can and do troubleshoot and repair boards like that by hand, but in most cases its probably easier just to toss and replace the entire PC board (assuming its available) - rather than toiling over data sheets, scoping out the fault, and executing the replacement of tiny SMD parts. I bet most amp techs who earn their keep fixing SVTs and the like won't even touch that kind of work, and even if they are qualified to do it - in many cases the cost of that work might exceed the cost of simply replacing the entire amp.
PCB amps that use the through-hole components (the parts intended to be stuffed into the board and assembled by humans) would stand a better chance of being repairable by a tech. Through hole boards in consumer electronics are fading fast, however, for a couple of reasons - one is "MBA disease" driving every ounce of profitability into such products (and that means getting the slow, expensive humans out of the equation), and the other is the fact that through-hole parts are slowly and steadily becoming obsolete (as a result of the industry shift to surface mount technology).
Not sure which builders are doing what these days. I'd assume the modern GK, Fender, Ampeg, etc.. fare all use SMT boards.
-
I would probably be looking for between 300-400 watts. The kind of gigs I do don't require anything too crazy loud. As for the whole circuit board thing, I completely understand. My full time job is in the auto parts business-Toyota, to be exact, so I see that everywhere.
Maybe a better question then is; who do you guys think is better at building those amps. I've seen a few for GK, and I like how their pro level stuff sounds. I have also heard that as of 2006, lead free solder is required, and that that stuff doesn't work as well as the old stuff.
I found this board when I found PsychoBassGuy again. I know he is on hiatus right now, but this seems like a cool place, so I'm glad to be a part of it.
-
lead free solder is required, and that that stuff doesn't work as well as the old stuff.
Not true - it performs (or should, never tried myself) better than leaded (both copper and silver are a very good conductors - better than lead easily).
The issue is price and workability - higher melting point (easier to damage components, especially SMDs and PCB traces), lower flowability (lead becomes very fluid very easily, vs tin, silver and copper, which form lead-free solders) and I'm not sure if they have a eutectic (the alloy melts all as one vs lumpy; i.e. 63/37 vs 60/40 Tin/lead) lead-free formulation yet (there's no such regulation up here in Canada, so I still use 63/37 personally). Obviously copper and silver are much more costy than lead as well.
In fact some audiophiles have been using lead-free 'silver solder' for years even before the new regs.
-
.... ovular grille on the front, the 400RB IV...
What's your definition of ovular? Or doesn't oval sound important enough?
-
What's your definition of ovular? Or doesn't oval sound important enough?
Perhaps it has a certain ovularity about it? ;)
-
Perhaps it has a certain ovularity about it? ;)
Only if it will be sprouting leaves sometime.
-
I suppose there isn't much distinction made (even here) between the noun and adjective forms of the word any more, but there was when I was at school (we get a slightly archaic, due to geopolitical disconnect I suppose, English English up here not American English). It's also Zed not Zee by the way :-*). Habits from school that stuck.
-
That's not what ovular means. The grille doesn't have an ovum.
Agree that there's no problem with lead-free solder.
Anyway, what about the current Traynor amps?
-
Well then I fall back on the ESL excuse... and have a bone to pick with quite a few teachers.
Anyway, as for Traynor, I haven't used the new stuff much. All I remember is one head ( solid state jobby with what seemed like way too many knobs at the time, into a mismatched 4x10, a config I m generally not a fan of) at a backline-provided indoor punk frestival show. It had promise but did not jump out at me tone-wise (I'd need more time with it and a familiar cab to be sure). Definitely no idea regarding longevity, though the old stuff (same company/ownership) was rock solid (rumours about the testing methods, such as tossing tubeless heads off the factory roof , loading them up again and powering up to play through, abounded). The new guitar line is very well regarded (heard em, not played em personally), not that that helps much.
-
The grille doesn't have an ovum.
Now that surely complies with the RoHS directive! :)
-
I would probably be looking for between 300-400 watts.
There's also the big questions of how much you can / want to pay, and what you need it to sound like.
I'd second the GK recommendation for a lot of situations, I had a 400RB for years, though I think they're a bit under-powered for a lot of gigs... I was always pushing mine to its limits. (Although, I didn't really have good enough speakers back then, so that was definitely a factor.)
I briefly owned a (used) Thunderfunk amp several years ago. They have become crazy expensive. That thing was pretty awesome for what it was. To me it seemed kind of like if a GK was made by hand with an obsessive attention to detail - cleaner, less noise. It sounded really nice, and wasn't super heavy at all, but it was too clean for my taste though.
It was even cleaner than an Eden, which was another amp I owned for a while and sold as not gritty enough for my taste. Those struck me as really solid too, though I know the founder has moved on and I don't know if they're still any good these days. They are still made though.
Personally I wanted more of an overdriven sound, and I was also moving toward ultra-light amps - a combination that I couldn't find in one amp for a long time, but I eventually settled on a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0. Which may well die spectacularly some day, but for my current level of gigging (twice a year if that), it's heaven.
-
I am a huge fan of my Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0. I have a an older GK Backline series head that is an excellent bang for the buck head and I'm a big fan of most of anything that says GK on it. The only thing I don't like from GK is their new light weight combos. The price is right , the weight is right, but I felt they were very anemic and not up to GK standards. I like the sound of the Markbass stuff too, but I know they do get some knocks for durability. I don't own one so I'm talking through my hat here. A lot of the newer Fender stuff is pretty good sounding , but the bang for the buck thing just isn't there.
Rolands smaller amps are great sounding and pretty bullet proof, but I have no idea what their heavier artillery is like. After playing nothing but Ampeg stuff for half my life, I have no idea what their newer stuff is like .
Rick
-
I do not use new gear for bass, but if nobody uses new gear, they will have no reason to make other amps than those who are inexpensive, break down and can be replaced only by new cheap gear :)
I must say that Peavey stuff is reliable, but I never liked it because it´s not the tone I´m after.
I owned a solid state Peavey head with Peavey 410 + 115 cabs, never got a sound out of it.
Used a TKO and a TNT as a kid, but got rid of them fast. I even liked my 60w Carlsbro 112 combo better back then.
The Carlsbro broke down after a year or so, but the Peaveys are still around and working I suppose.
Recently, though, I have had some new inexpensive Peavey tube amps (guitar) coming to my shop for repair.
I´m amazed how new some of them are, melted tubes, loose components, strange sounding.
Maybe they are becoming sloppy too? I guess you get what you pay for, but Peavey does have a history of
making good solid amps, even for the cheapest, smallest amps.
-
I bought one of the GK lightweight combos about six months ago. 500W (so they say...), 2x12. Got it cheap because it was scratch and dent - the corners on the enclosure seem to bust up pretty easily. I notice that MF has a bunch of scratch and dents now - one for $450(!)
I agree with Rick that the sound was a little meh.. maybe a bit cold? Just IMO... but I'm coming from an Orange AD200 and SVT cab. I've been gigging the GK with a wee bit of FMR RNLA ("really nice leveling amplifier") in front of it. I'd describe that as a very colorizing compressor, with a big "gushy" sound. It seems to warm it up a bit, and I get a really meaty growl out of that setup with the old Mockingbird bass I've been playing lately. Not bad at all for a 38lbs rig.
The way I see it is that if it ever craps out, then I have an excuse to go try a Genz :)
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/fab94654-7103-4d6c-afcc-6262643df4d4.jpg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/0chromium0/media/forums/fab94654-7103-4d6c-afcc-6262643df4d4.jpg.html)
-
I bought one of the GK lightweight combos about six months ago. 500W (so they say...), 2x12. Got it cheap because it was scratch and dent - the corners on the enclosure seem to bust up pretty easily. I notice that MF has a bunch of scratch and dents now - one for $450(!)
Pretty easy to pick up replacement corner protectors from a general parts supply place.
-
I'm surprised they don't add $100 and label it as the road worn edition ;D.
Rick
-
I'm surprised they don't add $100 and label it as the road worn edition ;D.
Rick
Nah. No one would ever fall for that. Can you imagine some company doing that with guitars? It would never work! ;D
-
I was gonna say- it's surprising they don't make reliced amps, but then I remember seeing some Fender stuff with fake beer bottle rings in the top, cigarette burns, etc... :D Funny.
The problem with the GKs isn't the metal corners themselves, but more the coating that they use in place of tolex. It's some sort of spray on, hard shell - like a giant M&M. When there's an impact, that stuff starts to fracture and crack away. No biggie to me (you should see my SVT cab :P), but I can understand how stores might end up with some "blems" because of this.
-
A few brands have used spray on finished but they really do vary in nature. Sounds like the GK use a harder, brittler sort, I've seen that on a few things, can't remember brands. Peaveys and EAs used a softer more rubberised sort that took shocks and bangs better. Kinda like spray on truck bed liner. Personally, I really like that stuff for ease of application/touch up and durability.
-
I used some truck bed liner-type stuff from a rattle can on one homemade cab. The result felt like I had covered the cab in 00 sandpaper. Carrying the d**n thing was like rubbing your jeans on a giant hacksaw blade.
-
The pro stuff that comes in 5gal buckets for use in spray rigs is much better than that. Used the aerosol stuff myself on my first DIY pedalboard (w lid) something like 10 years ago and it wasn't that bad - local store brand.
Some Peavey stuff is even worse - coarser than 50 grit.
-
I was gonna say- it's surprising they don't make reliced amps, but then I remember seeing some Fender stuff with fake beer bottle rings in the top, cigarette burns, etc... :D Funny.
The problem with the GKs isn't the metal corners themselves, but more the coating that they use in place of tolex. It's some sort of spray on, hard shell - like a giant M&M. When there's an impact, that stuff starts to fracture and crack away. No biggie to me (you should see my SVT cab :P), but I can understand how stores might end up with some "blems" because of this.
I ripped what was left of the tolex off my SVT cabs years ago and painted them black.
-
I actually purchased a new amplifier which was made in Ohio last year - a Reeves Custom 225. It was NOT cheap, but should last for the rest of the time I am here on earth.
-
I bought the new Mesa Bass Prodigy all tube head a few months ago. It sounds fantastic, lots of nice clean tube headroom. It's the fourth Mesa amp I have owned. I still have a WalkAbout as well. I had a problem with a used M6 I owned and the Mesa CS was fantastic. They walked me through some diagnostic tests on the phone and sent out a new preamp tube at no charge even though I was not the original owner. I do think it was still under warranty. I would love to own a Reeves 225 or a Hightone.
-
There's just not much out there anymore from 'the big boys' (Peavey included) that is NOT made to be disposable. The guitar amp world has a plethora of boutique amp and pedal builders who focus on quality first, but they all seem afraid of dropping an octave. You can probably count the number of custom bass amp builders out there on one hand. And that's going to be the only way you're going to find something new that you know will be able to be serviced and isn't going to be built around an output transistor board that is discontinued before the amp even gets to market (cough Markbass).
Mesa is probably the only major manufacturer still doing old-style serviceable amps, and I'll bet their QC is much better now that they dropped Guitar Center, but I gotta say, I've never been overly impressed with their quality. They have lots of problems in areas where they shouldn't, BUT the huge caveat about that is that most of the ones I saw were during their heaviest GC-ordering era over a decade ago. I bought a used Bass 400+ about five years ago and have never had to do a thing to it and it's running fine.
Traynor has great support, but their QC has REALLY dropped in recent years as they've had to cut costs to compete. I'd trust their warranty though.
Surface mount stuff also brings another factor into play: schematic values may say one thing, but in the Asian factories where this stuff is made, it means next to nothing and the parts themselves, even when they DO match a circuit diagram, have such tight tolerances that literally unless you find one of the same components out of the same batch of any components from which the amp was originally made, replacing a single defective part is impossible because the entire board was "tuned" to work in the factory that built it and without knowing where the variations in the actual values occurred (tolerance) the stuff will NEVER work right.
At the TV station where I used to work, we had to TOSS a multi-thousand dollar power supply for the satellite truck uplink literally because of a .001 cent SMT resistor bank that could NOT be repaired. We tried, and these are guys that deal in this stuff every day, not just me, the vintage snob. It pissed all of us off and we all took turns troubleshooting and tracing the circuit. We FOUND the problem and the bad parts, but because of the tolerances in the rest of the other boards, replacing the defective parts with ones of the same value only caused other problems elsewhere. I have what's left of it in my garage where I cannibalize it.
-
It's even hard to get some things even fixed. I have an SWR Baby Blue II that I love but a couple years ago it just went dead like a dying light bulb and SwR sent me to various techs who could not fix it. So it just sits. Now for the most part you just have to get something at a good price and when it goes just let it go. The other day I was looking at a few basses and plugged into something and it did not sound half bad ( yes the bass itself was good and I knew the sound capabilities) so looking over at what it was plugged into...a Fender Bronco 40 watt combo. $240. Actually emerysound in the East Bay ( SF Bay area) is putting out some superb stuff and will back it up. Not cheap, but leaves MarkBass etc. stuff wanting and not for much more.
-
it's really too bad about Traynor-I have a Yorkville XM50C from 2006 and it has been a fine amp. I have the bigger brother once, the XM200C. Nice amp, just a bit heavy and bulky for what it was.
So I guess the way to look at it is-get something that sounds good, and if and when it gives up the ghost, move on. Or, find something older used. I'll have to think about that one.
-
I bought the new Mesa Bass Prodigy all tube head a few months ago. It sounds fantastic, lots of nice clean tube headroom. It's the fourth Mesa amp I have owned. I still have a WalkAbout as well. I had a problem with a used M6 I owned and the Mesa CS was fantastic. They walked me through some diagnostic tests on the phone and sent out a new preamp tube at no charge even though I was not the original owner. I do think it was still under warranty. I would love to own a Reeves 225 or a Hightone.
Had my Mesa Prodigy for a couple months too and I love it. The more I play it, the more I like it and understand how to use it. I really seems to get batter every time I turn it on and mess with the controls. Got the 4 button pedal for it and it really is nice to have.
-
I'm glad Mesa is doing well with the Prodigy and I hope the new Strategy (they used to make a slave tube power amp under that name) is equally successful. It's nice to see that Mesa survived Guitar Center. That chain is almost singlehandedly responsible for the entire shift in the MI industry to disposability. They demand such low wholesale prices that manufacturers end up cutting every corner they can just to get them the product without it bankrupting them, and even then GC likes to withhold payment on already delivered merchandise to leverage better prices on the next batch. They killed Mackie, SWR, and all the companies Gibson ate while bringing junk like Behringer to prominence and ruining once great names like Fender, Marshall, Crown, and Ampeg.
-
I was just talking to the guy who works on my basses yesterday about this. Yes, guitar center stores get truckloads of guitars every week, then the stores turn around and say if you don't keep shipping product, we go under and you don't get paid, so you lose. Then, the stores get rid of anybody who knows how to work on a guitar, and just have the clueless kid salespeople go back and "work" on the guitars, when they have nothing to do.
As for amps, he was in agreement-find the older stuff, and somebody who knows how to work on them. I thought about this; maybe they make them disposable because there just aren't any people out there anymore who know how to work on this stuff. Same reason there are PLEK machines-allowing unskilled people to do a luthier's job, while charging more money.
-
I love my old Peavey Alphabass head. They are worth seeking out and still fairly cheap for a tube bass amp. I think I paid $200 for this several years ago.
(http://i42.tinypic.com/2u73cq0.jpg)
I take all of my equipment to Nick at South Austin Music. He is not only a smoking bass player but he can repair just about anything. I've taken older SWR, Ashly, Caver and even a Seymour Duncan bass head to him and he does outstanding work.
-
I thought about this; maybe they make them disposable because there just aren't any people out there anymore who know how to work on this stuff.
Nah. The people who knew how to do anything have either died, retired or had sense enough to stop doing repairs; there's no money in it and you certainly can't support yourself from musicians who aren't getting paid themselves. Disposable amps are made that way for one reason: money. SMT, SMPS amps made in contract production facilities in Asia (or "assembled" and claimed to made elsewhere) cost on the order of $25-50 each TOPS to produce, including labor costs. Everything else in the price is shipping (gotta get 'em to the market) and profit.
MI margins are 10 TIMES what they were pre-2007 because overall sales have dropped off so much. They have to because the market has already imploded. Yes, the stuff is generally junk, but where you'd sell ten amp that ran 30 years without a hitch in 2001, companies must now make the same amount of profit on a single amp that MIGHT last ten years. There will always be exceptions, but the longevity of the design is built into it. Old amps were literally made to run forever when properly maintained. New amps are made to die so that companies will have repeat business. The "trick" is to make people like the products so much that they don't notice that their new ultra-light class D 3000 watt amps only put out the same amount of volume as an old class A/B 300 watt amp and the company gets you to buy their product again if you liked the tone and it dies.
Even IF the economy recovers (which it never will until some other MAJOR changes take place) greedy investors are not going to tolerate companies suddenly making better, less profitable products; they're just going to demand higher sales AND better margins. The ONLY way to stop the trend is to "vote with your wallet" and not buy junk. Companies DO take notice when a product doesn't sell and when the marketing guys start saying the same things the design engineers are, the managers (because very few know how any of the stuff ACTUALLY works) will push for better overall products as a matter of survival.
BTW, the Alphabass is a VERY nice amp, Peavey's copy of the Fender Studio Bass with a graphic EQ, sort of a-low rent Mesa Bass 400.
-
maybe they make them disposable because there just aren't any people out there anymore who know how to work on this stuff. Same reason there are PLEK machines-allowing unskilled people to do a luthier's job, while charging more money.
Except that any major city has plenty of people qualified to fix amps. Maybe not 'guitar amp' techs per se, but the guy at the local used hifi sales/service place will do just as well.
I know 1 guy who supports his family (and has for years) with gear repairs (tube, point to point and solid state/pcb stuff). He works out of his house and he's the best guy in town (nice dude too). I think he also takes in all serious repairs from one used shop accross town (that their horrible tech can't handle) and works one day a week as the 12th fret's in house guy. His prices are insanely good (when you got to him direct) because he's lightening fast (just really knows his stuff) so the hours are low. I was very pleasantly surprised at the cost for him to go through my 16:8:2 console, and I always take my tube amps to him.
Then there's the local vintage Hifi guy (almost as good, but more expensive... and a little weird) and at least 4 stores (one a multi-location chain) that will repair stuff, but I have no idea about their quality of work and pricing (except one which I refuse to name or go to anymore since their tech put a Traynor Super Custom Special on the floor with an under-rated fuse, so that when I rented it it died before I hit a note... and then when I called he told me to just go get the right fuse at the hardware store like what he'd done was no biggie - what if I first fired it up at a show, after stores had closed?). Then there's all the pro audio/studio support guys some of whom also take amps and other things (but would likely not be cheap), a guy who designs/builds pedals and is known to do repairs, my recone guy (who also does amps, mostly PA stuff, but is too far away for me to use vs the other local awesome dude) and places like Teletech - I don't know what they'll work on, but I assume more pro audio stuff (too far for me to go there for repair).
That said, some of the disposable stuff might not be worth working on and techs might reject it, but I don't have anything with SMDs (aside from a pair of passive stepped attenuators made by hand by some dude in Asia that I couldn't resist due to price - actually good; SMDs make sense herebut I have no idea how the dude does it - with a loupe and very carefully) but some techs have mentioned that caveat when I brought them things (not about SMD specifically, but just, in general - other problems could be proprietary chips or sealed modules; think Standel's epoxy-potted stuff etc.)
Anyway, the reason is profit, not lack of techs. But it is a bit self-perpetuating maybe in that techs might not work on the stuff.
-
I guess I have to agree with both Granny and PBG...
It´s basically timebombs put out on the market these days, as you said, crap..
But there is no point in having such a dark view on techs, things change - as long as musicians will be able to have an interest in sound, people will grow up that gets interested in finding out how things work. Lots of really good books from the ´40´s to the ´60´s that still can wake interest and educate.
That said, I must confess that almost 50% of my customers find me because their last tech/repairman quit working because of age.
-
Yeah, my guy is getting there, but a good few years in him yet; there are a bunch of younger guys among the others I mentioned though.
-
The most positive way I can put it is that component level repair of electronic devices is becoming an unusual and hard-to-find specialized skill. It's not easy to find someone who is competent or willing to get inside an electronic device and do component level repair.
At our university, the last classroom support techs capable of that kind of work have retired, left or moved to other positions which are higher priority. Any more, it didn't pay for them to open up anything except to replace boards. Which isn't that bad, provided the boards are still available.
More bluntly, the people who know how to do this are boomers who are retiring. Aside from a limited number of places where the volume of repairs and the high price of the equipment justify maintaining staff with this kind of skill, I think it's disappearing fast. All boomers are 50 or older now, so the clock is ticking.
-
Geography plays a major role too. Here in East Tennessee, musicians of all sorts are a dime a dozen, and there's always tons of used gear to be had, so a lot of times stuff that has minor issues gets tossed because broke musicians can find cheap used "new" amps easier than paying a tech to fix their old ones. That's where most of my stuff came from. Every single repair person I know without exception has either stopped doing it for lack of income or retired, generally the former. When you're buying parts and then customers flake and leave you with an amp that you can't sell for the money you have in it, you can't make a living, and that is more common than not.
The ENTIRE purpose of the "bench fee" is to offset for other non-paying customers. I quit years ago before things got THIS bad. If you're a non warranty service center (and sometimes even if you are), a board to repair a switching amp can literally cost more than another of the same type sitting new on a store shelf! I can't tell you the number of times I'd get an amp on the bench and find a problem, give the customer an estimate and a timeframe to which they would agree, and then end up with a new amp for myself, because "Man, I just can't afford that now. Earl-Bob sold me his (fill in the bank) amp and now I'm broke." ...and the only money ever collected from four or five hours work and $60 in parts was the $30 bench fee. Just charging up front for parts weeded out half of my business, and I was glad to be rid of it. But when those are the only jobs you're getting, you can't do it.
I didn't have time to get warranty certification for companies because I was too busy working my REAL job, but I was better than ALL of the so-called "service centers" locally, which was a two-edged sword. I got stuff they had tried to fix and ruined and I got the customers that they knew better than to deal with. When the economy went bad in 2001, those became the ONLY customers. I was working full time and playing in a band as it was. I didn't have the time to chase deadbeats for junk amps. I also did work in other wide-area circles that WAS warranty work in GOOD service centers, and the story was the same there, except you were always waiting on amp companies to reimburse you and they had even more excuses than deadbeat musicians.
With a relatively low cost of living, this area pays wages that would be well below poverty in any major metro area, so everything effectively costs more because of it. I got whines about a $30 bench fee 12 years ago; in a major market, double that, and for anything complicated, quadruple it. Parts cost the same here, but people have less money to spend, so they're more likely to just flake. If you ever want a laugh, get on the Knoxville Craigslist page and look at prices people want for JUNK. MOST of the stuff is nearly new, probably broken, and priced higher than it was when it was new, last week.
I have a buddy who ran his own music store in Greeneville and did circuit (a route he made- not literally electronic circuits) repairs for a number of honest local shops (One shop was infamous for being crooks and they finally closed last year after decades of ripping people off and having them love them for it.) and he finally had to stop because costs wee just too much even with all his standing certifications and service center status. Add hostile manufacturers unto the mix like Fender, who is TRYING to get rid of all their independent service providers and has been for about five years, and it's stupid to even try. One former service center/music store dropped Fender entirely because of their new requirements for being a service center and dealer. They now charge WHOLESALE prices that are near the RETAIL of places like Guitar Center and Musicians Friend.
It's all because of money and greed. When an investment group buys an MI company, it is almost ALWAYS a very bad thing, and almost every major MI manufacturer is owned by an investment group. Mesa, Yorkville and possibly Peavey are still self-owned. Gibson doesn't count; The only electronics they put out are in their robo-Fireturds.
-
My local shop no longer does Fender warranty work-getting paid by them for doing it got too difficult, so they gave up. Really makes me leery to buy a new Fender amp, and generally I like them.
i have also been told about Fender; they are looking to go the direct route, like Carvin does. Fender now sells their products off their website-even necks and bodies. They never used to that I can remember.
It looks like the key here is to find good, older USA made amps, and stick with them. I like the idea of being able to get 500 watts out of a 6 pound amp, but I'll take a heavier one that I know I can count on to work over that anyday. I don't gig with loud bands anymore, so I don't need a refrigerator sized amp anymore. I don't abuse my gear either (how people manage to run over their stuff with their own cars, or have it fall out of a truck on the freeway is beyond me.)
I would have no problem with an older peavey, or a Yorkville; some people knock them, but I always got a sound out of them that I liked. I've never played an older Ampeg tube head, but I used to own a Bassman 100 tube head back in 1989 that I liked. that is one I regret getting rid of.
-
i have also been told about Fender; they are looking to go the direct route, like Carvin does. Fender now sells their products off their website-even necks and bodies. They never used to that I can remember.
It wouldn't surprise me to see them do more direct selling, but they'll never go anywhere near 100% direct. It would be suicidal, even for a brand as established as Fender.
-
It wouldn't surprise me to see them do more direct selling, but they'll never go anywhere near 100% direct. It would be suicidal, even for a brand as established as Fender.
I agree. They do have some partners like GC who I suspect are mutually dependent on each other. More outlets generally = more sales. Adding direct sales would follow that path.
Given that I'm 63 and have no desire to carry heavy amps, although I understand the cautions voiced here about the new amps, I'm OK with keeping my Genz-Benz Shuttle 6.0. First, I suspect that it's among the better micro amps, and second, as little playing time as I put on it (maybe 2-3 hours per week), I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it outlasts me.
-
The most positive way I can put it is that component level repair of electronic devices is becoming an unusual and hard-to-find specialized skill.
...
More bluntly, the people who know how to do this are boomers who are retiring.
I love working on old music electronics as a hobby (mostly synths, signal processors... no amps) , and marvel at how some of these ideas ever even saw light of day. These devices contained a mind numbing amount of point-to-point wiring, intricate (hand drawn) PCB layouts, elaborate enclosure work... and all of it was done by skilled engineers/techs in the USA. Labor of love? Obviously these companies were not being run by businessmen, and profit margins took second saddle. (...and eventually Japanese competition with better business savvy blew them all out of the market)
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/synth/minimoog/DSC00229.jpg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/0chromium0/media/forums/synth/minimoog/DSC00229.jpg.html)
That pic above is a portion of the behind-the-panel wiring of my '74 Minimoog with the boards removed. Over 10,000 of these were manufactured this way - crazy by today's standards!
Nowadays, that synth would fetch 2500-3K on the used market, contains rare/obsolete components, and I can count on one hand the number of *professional* techs (worldwide even) that I would trust sending something like this to for service... and PBG's post describes their careers, professional experiences, and livelihood to a tee. Most of the music electronics I've acquired over the years was broken/malfunctioning, and I bought in cheap (or in some cases free) because the owners simply couldn't afford to get the stuff repaired.
Nowadays, anyone who has the wherewithal or interest to service a device like this would be better suited pursuing a career in software engineering - programming commodity DSPs for throwaway instruments.. or writing apps for cheap mobile devices being churned out in Asia (most of which will end up in a landfill in 2-3 years).
There's no money in building/repairing hardware.
-
There's no money in building/repairing hardware.
That is the facts, but I have to believe that times will change that.
-
We might be better off up here in Toronto, compared to most of the State-side cities - we're basically the Nashville/LA/NYC of the music biz for all of Canada, so if there's a tech anywhere in the country, it's here - even younger sones just starting out (though I know that there's guys all over, Montreal/Winnipeg/Halifax/Vancouver, if not how good they are, due to never having used them... heard of some scheisterism out in Van). .. and Chromium, my dude is definitely worthy of working on your Moog - I've seen a number of esoteric / huge / modular synths in his living room over the years.
It may be that the biz model has to change/adapt. My idea for this was to unite studio/venue/rehearsal space with an in house tech - plenty to keep a guy busy + new clients walking in all the time. Mostly around here, with the young guys, you see them running a gear-making company (pedals and/or boutique amps) as well as offering repair service. I know 2 guys like that locally, and that's also how Oliver Ackermann (Death by Audio) got started (though he's probably too busy with his band/making boutique pedals for famous people to do random service anymore).
-
Just got an email from a buddy of mine at Demeter. This is their new 800 watt hybrid. Hand made in California. Preamp is the original Demeter based on a Hiwatt.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/ME/P1050413_zps14ecccab.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/ME/P1050413_zps14ecccab.jpg.html)
-
That thing looks good to me. Probably too pricey and I really don't need that much power.
I've never used their instrument gear, but I have massive GAS for Demeter's Realverb rack unit (but due not stereo - 2 channels but not identical, and already owning an AKG BX25, couldn't justify it... though it appears they've gotten cheaper since I gave up on the idea, hmmn).
-
My GAS has been relatively stable lately - been pretty happy with my GK MB-112 II (http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=7240.0) - but that shot of the Demeter amp kinda got to me! On a trip to one of my local music stores I noticed an amp I probably wouldn't have had I not been looking at this thread - the Mesa Boogie Prodigy. Had to go back and re-read drbassman's thread (http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=8391.0)!
No plans to purchase any of these though - not only can I not afford it, I don't play enough and if I was the GK has been meeting my needs. Every now and again I find myself fantasizing about tubes (never having played through some of the bigger stuff a lot of you guys talk about) but I've got a tube in my signal chain (CAE/CAJ tube compressor) and can always pull out the Alembic F-2B if I really get a hankering.
-
Demeter's tube preamp never impressed me: noisy and not really good for anything that you couldn't easily get elsewhere for MUCH cheaper. It wasn't bad, just not worth the price of admission. I'd like to see their old 300 watt tube power amp sometime.
-
Demeter's tube preamp never impressed me: noisy and not really good for anything that you couldn't easily get elsewhere for MUCH cheaper. It wasn't bad, just not worth the price of admission. I'd like to see their old 300 watt tube power amp sometime.
Names please.
-
Names please.
Here's the tube power amp:(http://demeteramps.us/image/cache/data/products/vthf300mlarge-500x500.jpg)
The VTHF-300M (http://demeteramps.us/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=75)
I can't find the preamp I tried. It was about 20 years ago and was a two rackspace bass pre, but NOT the VTBP-201. I can't find it on a Google image search. The closest any of them comes is this:
(http://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/so-much-gear-so-little-time/182728d1279089644-your-electric-bass-recording-chain-demeter-kolbe.jpg)
...and that's just an older version of the VTBP-201. Was there an earlier tube bass preamp from them?
-
I own that version you pictured, 1.5 Rack space 2-12 AX7 VTBP-201, mine is a '93 with Jensen transformer pre/post EQ D.I. It's quiet, clean and transparent Jim Demeter designed it, still owns the company and builds all his stuff in house. He must be doing a good job of fooling the likes of Lee Sklar and Bob Glaub among others.
I use my Demeter with a made in USA Ampeg SVP-1500. The pair cost me under $1k used. What's a 2 tube D.I go for these days?
Sklar's original 1.5 rack space:
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/ME/P1050471_zps8b35eb65.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/ME/P1050471_zps8b35eb65.jpg.html)
mine:
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/ME/P1050470_zpsd7fc226b.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/ME/P1050470_zpsd7fc226b.jpg.html)
Demeter's tube preamp never impressed me: noisy and not really good for anything that you couldn't easily get elsewhere for MUCH cheaper.
Such as?
-
How about this?
http://juleamps.com/shop/viewitem.php?groupid=2&productid=30 (http://juleamps.com/shop/viewitem.php?groupid=2&productid=30)
(Don't mean to derail the current conversation, I'm actually really enjoying it, especially the scans!)
-
The VTHF-300M (http://demeteramps.us/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=75)
65LBS! (and likely priced to match) . What's that, like 5-6 RU?
Those older Peavey tube power amps (as well as the Alphabass, which may nopt be much lighter, but certainly cheaper) are looking mighty good in comparison, though I am sure this Demeter just roars.
-
Such as?
There's a distinct possibility that the one I tried may have had something wrong with it, since the owner of the studio where it lived was spectacularly less than honest. It could have been a counterfeit, too. Hell, whatever it was REALLY, it was probably stolen anyway. It looked a lot LIKE the VTBP-201 but was a full 2 rack spaces and had different knobs, more similar to the ones pictures than any other pics I found, but still different. I just remember that when I tried it, it was noisy, with lost of hissy white noise and never sounded like it was actually doing much of anything tonewise. Even major adjustments to the knobs produced only minor variations in sound.
It was set up in a rack with a Trace Elliot preamp that sounded exactly the way Trace does and when I saw the Demeter name on the preamp, I expected great things. Given the circumstance, I'd be willing to chalk it up to something being fishy. Since then, I've avoided their gear and never been inside any of it, so I've never had a chance to alter my opinion. I read a few online reviews that talked about how minimal it was in terms of tone shaping and just assumed that those reviewers had encountered the same thing I did. Demeter preamps aren't that common anyway, but I'll give the next one I see a go.
As far as preamps with similar performance to my experience, the cheap tube ART boxes come to mind, but even they are quieter.
-
There's a distinct possibility that the one I tried may have had something wrong with it, since the owner of the studio where it lived was spectacularly less than honest. It could have been a counterfeit, too. Hell, whatever it was REALLY, it was probably stolen anyway. It looked a lot LIKE the VTBP-201 but was a full 2 rack spaces and had different knobs, more similar to the ones pictures than any other pics I found, but still different. I just remember that when I tried it, it was noisy, with lost of hissy white noise and never sounded like it was actually doing much of anything tonewise. Even major adjustments to the knobs produced only minor variations in sound.
It was set up in a rack with a Trace Elliot preamp that sounded exactly the way Trace does and when I saw the Demeter name on the preamp, I expected great things. Given the circumstance, I'd be willing to chalk it up to something being fishy. Since then, I've avoided their gear and never been inside any of it, so I've never had a chance to alter my opinion. I read a few online reviews that talked about how minimal it was in terms of tone shaping and just assumed that those reviewers had encountered the same thing I did. Demeter preamps aren't that common anyway, but I'll give the next one I see a go.
As far as preamps with similar performance to my experience, the cheap tube ART boxes come to mind, but even they are quieter.
It's true, not a great deal of tone shaping with the Demeter. Transparency is more important to me than radical EQ possibilities. I like to keep everything around 12 o'clock. The bass and my fingers will do the rest. If it doesn't sound good to me close to "flat", it's time to get another bass or rig or change strings.
My Hughes & Kettner 2 tube 'Crunch Master' sounds pretty good but it can be REALLY noisy. It was free.
-
There's a distinct possibility that the one I tried may have had something wrong with it
Had a demeter preamp (cant remeber wich model, 2RU size) in for repair some years back. The guy who brought it
had it for years. He heard I had lots of good tubes stock, and wanted me to replace all tubes with NOS telefunken tubes.
Why, I asked - well he read that they sounded good and were low noise etc.. And boy, that thing had noise!
I tested the tubes he had and they were all good. I even shoved him how little difference the tele´s did. (They might have done a bigger difference if it were not for the noise already present). He said it had this noise since new, so I told him to take it back where he bought it.
This is the only Demeter I´ve come across, but it did seem like a very good build.
-
Had a demeter preamp (cant remeber wich model, 2RU size) in for repair some years back. The guy who brought it
had it for years. He heard I had lots of good tubes stock, and wanted me to replace all tubes with NOS telefunken tubes.
Why, I asked - well he read that they sounded good and were low noise etc.. And boy, that thing had noise!
I tested the tubes he had and they were all good. I even shoved him how little difference the tele´s did. (They might have done a bigger difference if it were not for the noise already present). He said it had this noise since new, so I told him to take it back where he bought it.
This is the only Demeter I´ve come across, but it did seem like a very good build.
Maybe it's an older model that's just really noisy? The 2 rackspace size and noise being common to both would go a long way towards explaining why it seems to have vanished from existence. I never got to see the guts of the Demeter I tried, but from the front panel, it looked to be decent quality.
-
Maybe it's an older model that's just really noisy? The 2 rackspace size and noise being common to both would go a long way towards explaining why it seems to have vanished from existence. I never got to see the guts of the Demeter I tried, but from the front panel, it looked to be decent quality.
I've never seen a 2 rack space version, mine is 1.5. Headphone jack to the right of 'Demeter' is a mod.
...you want to talk noise, the 1 space Peavey sitting on top will supply it, as well as radical tone shaping.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/ME/P1050472_zps49924675.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/ME/P1050472_zps49924675.jpg.html)
Sklar's appears to be the same 1.5 rack space but no active input.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/ME/P1050471_zps8b35eb65.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/ME/P1050471_zps8b35eb65.jpg.html)
I don't think noise generally is a problem with Demeter preamps, their primary intent was recording. There's a trim pot between the 12AX7s to adjust output. That could affect s/n ratio if turned too far.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/ME/P1050470-001_zpsfa96af39.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/ME/P1050470-001_zpsfa96af39.jpg.html)
-
I don't think noise generally is a problem with Demeter preamps, their primary intent was recording.
That was a headscratcher for me, too. I'd heard nothing but good things about Demeter bass preamps, and then I tried one and it was just a hissy thing with next to NO tone shaping abilities. Maybe someone counterfeited a batch when they first got big. That was bad problem with China for awhile, before Uli Behrigner showed them how to do it with US backing. That would also explain the 2 rack spaces. In the late 80's and early 90's, the right amount of time for them to have fanned out and disappeared into the woodwork and someone like me to run across one, China put out a massive amount of counterfeit US goods, especially electronics all types, tubes included, encouraged by the party leadership so that they could both perfect their abilities to copy and increase their own QC.
The tone knob on a junkiest passive bass you can think of had more range than that preamp did. The knobs also had no effect on the noise. I always chalked it up to a case of the emperor's new clothes and my taste for low end, but who knows, maybe amptech and myself both encountered fake Demeters. I remember the 2 rackspace thing specifically because I thought the lettering on the preamp belonged farther up on the face. Maybe it was made off of a template from the 1.5 ru model.
There's a trim pot between the 12AX7s to adjust output. That could affect s/n ratio if turned too far.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/ME/P1050470-001_zpsfa96af39.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/ME/P1050470-001_zpsfa96af39.jpg.html)
Those are metal film resistors and Wima caps, good stuff. The tubes themselves are Chinese 7025 "Silver Specials" that Lord Valve raved on about for years. They're a little bit noisier than old Western World stuff, but nothing to speak of in the right circuit, which is just about ANY that would work at all. The noise I'm talking about would have been unacceptable in any REAL studio, and the owner of the one where it lived probably knew the brand name and nothing more.
It was the era of the project studio, (anyone else JUST realize that that term is as antiquated as I just did?) brought to you courtesy of Greg Mackie, where for about $50k, you could get yourself a couple of ADATs, a Mackie mixer or one of their many QUALITY copycats (Soundtracks Topaz, Soundcraft Spirit, etc), a bunch of whatever leftover 80's rack gear floated your boat, and mix it all down to a crappy prosumer DAT tape recorder that ate more tapes than it ever played. It was one of those places, one of many studios that published gear lists like they were filling a tour rider. I'm sure the owner aquired it and probably never even used it. It was in a rack in the main room with a baby grand piano.
I helped wire that studio and never got paid a dime. The studio lasted for a few years until it became apparent that Knoxville was too close to Nashville for the kind of money the owner was charging for the expertise and talent that he did NOT have. He never set out to compete with the "big boys;" he was hoping to turn it into a writers' studio, but most independent songwriters either already had their own or were willing to pay the prices to get the service they wanted. I did get to see some neat stuff there and I learned some very valuable things, so it wasn't a total wash for me, but wiring an entire studio is a big job, and gas may have been less than $1 a gallon, but it wasn't free, and unlike much of the clientele/booking agents, I didn't take payment in the form of bj's. Yeah, that part was...creepy and NOT cool. Learning that gay fellatio was currency was not something I had ever endeavored to find out.
Demeter..yeah...that's what we were talking about.
-
Those are metal film resistors and Wima caps, good stuff. The tubes themselves are Chinese 7025 "Silver Specials" that Lord Valve raved on about for years. They're a little bit noisier than old Western World stuff, but nothing to speak of in the right circuit, which is just about ANY that would work at all. The noise I'm talking about would have been unacceptable in any REAL studio, and the owner of the one where it lived probably knew the brand name and nothing more.
When ThundeBucker was here a few years ago and took a look inside he had the same thing to say about the components, all top notch...as far as the tubes, I put those in after being told by my buddy Robert, who has worked for Demeter off and on for two decades, that they were what Jim recommended. I still have the originals around somewhere but it's a case of, "If it ain't broke..."
Jim Demeter, like ThunderBucker both did time in Hollywood as amp techs, Steve at Hollywood Sound among other places before getting his E.E. degree. I'm sure they've both seen similar stuff to what you're relating. They also have pretty high standards as to what they put their names on, so it would be a "head scratcher" as you say if Demeter was producing outright crap and fooling people for over 30 years with it. Though that would be a great story!..sort of like GK. Oh wait, has their stuff improved since I've been avoiding it like the plague for 40 years? Next you'll tell me Acoustic amps have another sound besides subsonic bath tub farts. ;D
ed note:- fixed a broken quote html tag that got truncated in the board upgrade
-
Just heard from my buddy Robert at Demeter. Great reception for the new amp and Bass Gear named it Best of Show or something like that. List is $1500, dealer price is around $1000.
He said he hung out with Rob and that he's a cool dude (Demeter exhibits next to Warwick). I don't know if Rob heard the amp.
-
I actually purchased a new amplifier which was made in Ohio last year - a Reeves Custom 225. It was NOT cheap, but should last for the rest of the time I am here on earth.
I tried one of those at TB get together a few years ago. I loved that amp! If I were playing again, that would be on my short list. I might even go with a 4x12 underneath.
-
Just heard from my buddy Robert at Demeter. Great reception for the new amp and Bass Gear named it Best of Show or something like that. List is $1500, dealer price is around $1000.
That's no small praise. I've been very happy with the way Tom Bowlus has made and kept that publication respectable and honest. He's one of the two lawyers I trust; although the other one has this weird Deep Purple thing... ;)
-
I would have to agree-every so often, when walking through the book stores, I'll look through BP magazine. I don't remember EVER seeing a bad review of anything. Of course, with these companies paying big money to advertise, I wouldn't expect BP to bite the hands that feed them.
-
I would have to agree-every so often, when walking through the book stores, I'll look through BP magazine. I don't remember EVER seeing a bad review of anything. Of course, with these companies paying big money to advertise, I wouldn't expect BP to bite the hands that feed them.
Two different magazines. I'd agree with both of you. Bass Gear is indeed respectable and honest and Bass Player never gives a bad review of anything.
-
BTW, it's off topic, but I'm adding another lawyer to my "good" list. The one handling my divorce is saving my ass.
-
What do you guys think of Carvin amps? Their selling point is that they're made in the USA, but I'm sure the electronic components still come from Asia.
Hey Psycho-sorry for what you are going through in your life, but I'm glad to see you here!
-
What do you guys think of Carvin amps? Their selling point is that they're made in the USA, but I'm sure the electronic components still come from Asia.
Hey Psycho-sorry for what you are going through in your life, but I'm glad to see you here!
I'm sure Carvin has gotten better over the years, but when I was a youngster, I was foolish enough to buy a 100 watt head from them, when they were strictly mail order. It was the worst amp I ever had. It fried 5 times in the first year I had it. Five trips to repair under warranty. Never again.
-
Carvin's electronics have historically been pretty crappy. It wasn't until fairly recently that their amps and bass cabs were worth having at all. Their instruments' onboard electronics are still garbage as far as I know. I have a buddy who swears by them, even though he's had to replace his preamp more than once in a couple of basses. They make some pretty instruments, but those option costs add up mucho fast, even for non-coffee table models.
-
Yeah, Carvin makes nice coffee tables at decent prices :)
-
I've got a couple buddies who are big Carvin amp fans and they have tried to swing me that way a few times. Their stuff is not bad. There is nothing about them that I would say I dislike, but at the same time there is nothing about them that makes me jump up and down with joy either. They make pretty good stuff, but there is better stuff to be had. For me , they land in a class with Peavey. Good stuff, and if the price is right they look even better, but if you look a little harder, you will find something you like more ;D.
Rick
-
I've been emailing with Clayton Callaway from Hi-Tone Amplification about their HI-Watt clones. They're recreations of Dave Reeves 70s Hi-Watt designs. Fully endorsed by the Reeves estate. He just sent me this picture. The HT200 DR is an exact replica of an early 70s Hi-Watt DR201. This cab is a 412 but they make a 115 and 410. Pretty sweet looking.
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn3/saltymonkey/0032_zps226f4243.jpg)
-
I've got a couple buddies who are big Carvin amp fans and they have tried to swing me that way a few times. Their stuff is not bad. There is nothing about them that I would say I dislike, but at the same time there is nothing about them that makes me jump up and down with joy either. They make pretty good stuff, but there is better stuff to be had. For me , they land in a class with Peavey. Good stuff, and if the price is right they look even better, but if you look a little harder, you will find something you like more ;D.
Rick
I've never owned Carvin gear either. But I've known of enough people who have had so many reliability issues with them that I wouldn't put them in the same class as Peavey.
-
I've never owned Carvin gear either. But I've known of enough people who have had so many reliability issues with them that I wouldn't put them in the same class as Peavey.
I'm not familiar with their reliability issues, but what I meant in my Peavey comparison was simply, good stuff but there's better stuff to be had. Peavey stuff was always rock solid dependable. Only Peavey piece I ever owned was a PA and I beat the hell out of it for years. Bang for the buck it couldn't be beat. Were there better PAs out there? Definitely.
Rick
-
I had bad luck with Carvin stuff back in the late '80s - had one of the bass heads, had to get it fixed a few times - I forget what was wrong with it - finally gave up on it. Had a 1X15" cab, it made a horrible rattling kind of sound - my dad finally figured out it was the metal grille vibrating - so he put in a strip of wood covered with carpeting to dampen it - it worked fine after that but how lame is that??!!! Never bought anything Carvin after that.
-
I've been emailing with Clayton Callaway from Hi-Tone Amplification about their HI-Watt clones. They're recreations of Dave Reeves 70s Hi-Watt designs. Fully endorsed by the Reeves estate. He just sent me this picture. The HT200 DR is an exact replica of an early 70s Hi-Watt DR201. This cab is a 412 but they make a 115 and 410. Pretty sweet looking.
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn3/saltymonkey/0032_zps226f4243.jpg)
That is nice. Does it utilize EL34 power tubes?
-
That is nice. Does it utilize EL34 power tubes?
From the Hi-Tone site:
The HT200 DR is the Classic early 1970s Dave Reeves powerhouse.
Conservatively rated at 200w. the HT200 is capable of pumping out closer to 250w, making it a fantastic bass amp or the biggest pedal platform you have ever experienced.
The proprietary Custom Heyboer transformers are pieces of art and the build quallity is unparalled, as you would expect.
Standard with Sozo capacitors but available with NOS Mustard capacitors.
4x 12AX7/ecc83
1 x 12AT7/ecc81
4x KT88
120v, 225, and 240v taps for international use.
4,8,16 ohm settings and four output jacks allow for a wide range of speaker options.
weight: 62.5 lbs
Dimensions: 11.5"H x 11"D x 27.5"L
-
When I looked at the Hi-Tone site, I thought they mentioned output tube options - as in you could have EL34 or KT88. It's easy enough for them to do, the pinouts are the same, just a matter of biasing. Personally, I'd recommend the KT88s, but if you really want it to sound/behave exactly like an original, it's gotta be the EL34s. I am considering switching my single pair of EL34 (technically 6CA7) head over to KT88s, next time the tubes go (single pair; I end up pushing them pretty hard, and I've been going through my stock of pre-loved EL34s to boot vs buying new so they will go pretty soon).
-
The 200 watt Hiwatts with EL34's ran six of them. Most of the originals ran a quad of KT88's. A 200 watt Hiwatt isn't going to get 200 watts out of a quad of EL34's and live very long.
-
Only 6 - that's still pushing the tubes pretty hard, no? My point was about tone not power.
I didn't realise that any original Hiwatts used KT88s at all, sorry about that; they are known for their EL43 based sound. I just figured they kept adding EL34 pairs for more wattage; only seen the 50s and 100s around here.
Anyway, now I get what the fuss is about regarding the DR201s vs the other models.
-
EL34's, which are true pentodes, have very high voltage capabilities (800 vp and vs), but their current output is still relatively low. You CAN get an honest 100 watts out of a pair, but they'll be VERY unstable. That's where the "KT" tubes and the other beam tetrodes (6V6, 6L6, 6550) have an advantage for bass- better peak current- which means better, beefier bottom and more punch, what most folks associate with GOOD solid state amps and subwoofers. The Peavey VB-2 uses six EL34's to get its 225 watts. Its advantage is having an EXCELLENT s/s preamp so you don't really notice less punch down low until you really start pushing it. Vintage Hiwatt 201's, at least from what I've seen, were made with KT88's over EL34's at a ratio of about 5 to 1. I suspect the EL34-equipped models were early production.