The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bass Amps & Effects => Topic started by: Pilgrim on April 20, 2009, 05:37:51 PM
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I stopped by my favorite pawn shop tonight and they have an early 80's Sunn Coliseum 300 amp at $269. Looks good, some scratches but no knobs broken and no pots bent. 7-band EQ and 300W output at 2 ohms...so I assume it pushes less power with higher resistance.
Any experience with these? Online reviews seem pretty positive...and acknowledge that it's big and heavy. I'm playing with the idea of a more "vintage" amp then my current Behringer 4500.
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I love Sunn bass heads. If that 300 watts is rated at 2 ohms, the ballpark figures would probably be about 200 watts at 4 ohms and about 100 watts at 8 ohms. That's something you want to think about.
Rick
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I was thinking about exactly that.
My existing cabs are all 8 ohm, chosen specifically so that I can daisy-chain two and not drop below 4 ohms - the normal limit on most heads. Most of my gigs only require one speaker cab, so using the Sunn with just one of my cabs I'd normally be putting out somewhere around 100W. As it happens, I already have a pretty nice Hartke 1400 head that weighs about 12 pounds for that application. It's only 80W at 8 ohms, but if that's not enough I just drag out the Behringer 4500.
If I had been planning on acquiring a head like this, I'd be using 4 ohm cabs so that I could access the power it generates.
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There is no rock solid rule for what the difference in power would be at different ohm load. I was just ballparking it. For example . I have a Seymour Duncan head that is rated 600 watts/ 2 ohm, 400 watts / 4 ohm, and 200 watts /8 ohm. I have a GK Backline 600 that is rated 300 watts / 4 ohm and 180 watts / 8 ohm . Not a huge difference in proportion, but when you're matching stuff up it's nice to know what you've got. I would want to dig up the specs on that particular model and then give it a listen.
I hope it works out for you. I never played a Sunn I didn't like :)
Rick
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I passed on the Sunn and went a completely different direction - picked up a very nice practice amp. It's an Ibanez SW35. Tilt-back, 35W, 10" speaker, bass, middle, treble, and presence controls, limiter with LED indicator, stereo CD inputs, headphone jack that kills the speaker, line out, effects send and return. Quite a few features...and all for $60 used and in pristine condition! I didn't really need another big watt head (although all the purists would certainly approve more of my using a Sunn Coliseum head than the Behringer BX4500 I'm using) , but I did need a small, portable practice amp.
If anyone knows what the "Presence" control does, let me know - I can't hear a difference turned one way or the other.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/SW35.jpg)
Never mind, I downloaded an owner's manual online and it sez: "Presence is the ultra-high frequency equalizer. It boosts or cuts the level of the 9.4 kHz region in a range of ±15 dB." No wonder I don't hear anything - it's irrelevant for bass, except maybe turning it down if I hear hiss.
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You got a very good price on that.
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I hate to see a good Sunn head without a home :sad:, but for $60 I think you hit pretty good :)
Rick
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I'm almost tempted to go back and just for the helluvit offer them $200 for the Sunn...it's the end of the month and I know they're not selling much stuff. I just don't need to spend $200....but what a nice toy!
If I got too good a deal, I could add that massive (40 pounds plus?) Sunn to:
- My Behringer BX4500 head (31 pounds)
- My BF Bassman head, @1967 (30 pounds)
- My Hartke 1400 head (12-15 pounds)
- My 1980's Bassman 120 combo (100W, 15" spkr, est. 50 pounds)
- My new/used Ibanez SW 35 combo (10" spkr, 34.4 pounds)
Bass players seem to always lug around the heaviest gear - I've always thought that Eden has a good idea with their small, portable amps. I'm just too cheap to buy one.
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For 200 bucks buy the Sunn !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o
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i have had alot of sunn stuff at one time or another including coliseum amps, slaves, cabs etc. at this point i would not pay that price for a head. the vintage myth that everything old is good again is a good way to be disapointed. i would rather buy a good new piece of gear than a 30 year old sunn or anything else for that matter. however i did like sunn's 2X15 cabs and the 100 watt tube head at the time but would not re buy them now, even cheap. am i rambling here. ???
btw i owned all this stuff before it had aquired 'vintage' status. ;) if i was looking for a new amp now i would buy the best combo i could afford. i don't want no stinkin' huge backline anymore. :mrgreen:
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Yeah, small is the new big.
Rick
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I agree with the THUNDER mon~Get the SUNN for 2 hun!!
Don't be a pussy. Do some curls with it. ha ha
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My Hiwatt DR103 is a 1970, my Marshall (almost) 4x12 is a 1970, my Marshall Smallbox 50 is a 1968 - they are all O. L. D. and they K. I. C. K. A. S. S. (whenever my wife lets me... ;))
New stuff I tried (admittedly pre 1990) all sounded far to clinical AFAIC, but not saying any of you using audiophile equipment are in the wrong, that's just your trip, it's not mine...
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/LightSnake/l_e47ba16bdacc9da27382b78c4bfb7a29.jpg)
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You are NOT helping, sir!!!!
:P :P
Of course, whadda I 'spect?? :-\
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"If Felix my pint, I'll firkin thump 'im..."
There was (is?) a brewery group over here called "Firkin" after a particular type of beer-barrel - the pub name for the above T-shirt slogan was the "Phoenix and Firkin"... they used to produce something vicious called "Dogbolter"... ;)
Nice pic, Terr, never seen that one before...
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Grab it like a rabbit! Offer $169. Say "Times are tough" or something.
Tell 'em you'll give 'em another hun when you get as famous as Felix.
What's $169~ 3 tanks of GAS??? lol Just stay home on the weekends.
...playin' thru your SUNN!!!
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Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez. Big help!!
I would have stopped by there yesterday but I got caught updating computers and couldn't leave until after they closed. I may stop there today.
One of my favorite tactics with pawn shops if they don't take my offer is to write it on a business card, tell them to call me if they change their minds, and walk away. I usually get a call before long.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/LightSnake/l_e47ba16bdacc9da27382b78c4bfb7a29.jpg)
I saw Mountain twice and Felix had this same set up, Sunn 2000S heads and cabs, sounded great, he had his EB-1 when I saw them both times though. I owned a 2000S head and two 2000S cabs at different times. I powered the two Sunn cabs with a Marshall Major, now that set up moved some air, 4 JBL D-140's. I got the head cheap and never really used it as I had started using SVT's around 1975, as a matter of fact I'm still using them. I'd grab the Sunn for 200 bucks.
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"If Felix my pint, I'll firkin thump 'im..."
There was (is?) a brewery group over here called "Firkin" after a particular type of beer-barrel - the pub name for the above T-shirt slogan was the "Phoenix and Firkin"... they used to produce something vicious called "Dogbolter"... ;)
Nice pic, Terr, never seen that one before...
Ken, no word of a lie, I used to drink Dog Bolters in the Pheonix and Firkin in Kingston UT. Was about 10 mins walk from my house. Only thing more vicious that the Dog which could be consumed with care, was the Snakebite.
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I used to own a Sunn solid state bass head (a 70's coliseum). It was a great head. Easily the loudest I've ever owned, tube or otherwise. It doesn't know distortion though, it just goes louder and louder. Some people don't like that. The highs can get super shrieky on you (which is why Entwistle loved them). The C300 is a different design and a lot of tweaks from that 70's amp. I don't know that I would jump on it right away but you could always sell it again later and recoup the $200. The only reason I sold the Coliseum was the internal fan was just too loud for recording and I don't have the money to have one amp that does each. Those heads were made to be cranked into molten tolex levels in arenas, stadiums, and, yes, coliseums.
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OK. Thanks to all the positive reinforcement and my normal lack of self-control, I am now the proud owner of a Sunn Coliseum-300 amp! I ended up at $225 for it, and I darn sure won't let it go for that if I decide to re-sell at some point.
I tried it out and although I didn't have time to work out its functions, I confirmed that:
- All knobs and switches work. A couple of pots scratched a bit when exercising them, but that disappeared after they'd been worked a few times.
- Both inputs and speaker outputs work (didn't try all the aux ins and outs, not likely to be a problem anyway)
- The EQ on this thing is AMAZING. Huge boost and cut on each frequency - when it shows +15 to -15, they weren't kidding!
- As it should, the EQ settings have a significant effect on volume. Boosting or cutting any frequency from 0 results in big-time volume gains or cuts. (Of course - isn't that how a good EQ should work??)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Amps-Speakers/P5150163.jpg)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Amps-Speakers/P5150164.jpg)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Amps-Speakers/P5150165.jpg)
One of its coolest features is on the back panel - a complete signal path schematic so that you always have a reference to the functions of each input, output and control.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Amps-Speakers/P5150160.jpg)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Amps-Speakers/P5150161.jpg)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Amps-Speakers/P5150162.jpg)
Here's the collection of amps and speakers I now have....missing from this pic is my 1980's fender Bassman 120 combo with a single 15" speaker. Clockwise from bottom left - GK GLX410, Behringer BX4500H, 1967 Fender Bassman amp, Hartke 1400 anp, Sunn 300 Coliseum amp, Homemade 1x12 w.Carvin speaker, Peavey 1x15 with Eminence speaker, Ibanez SW35 combo amp.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Amps-Speakers/P5150168.jpg)
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Nice ! Glad you got it ! You won't be sorry, you'll never have to worry about being burried by the getard again.
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Well, my Behringer BX4500H (450W) had the volume side well covered, but I'm excited about A/B'ing the two amps and seeing what differences I hear. I generally can't tell one amp from another when they have similar power. The sunn amps have such a gerat rep that I just couldn't resist this one...but I'll find out whether it actually sounds as good or better than the Behringer. Frankly, the BX4500 is a pretty sweet amp.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Amps-Speakers/BX4500H-1.jpg)
All my cabs are 8 ohms, so I'm unlikely to ever turn this Coliseum loose at 2 ohms where it develops max power. OTOH, the band I play is is a surf band where the max amperage is about 60W for the guitarists, so we're not in the bleeding-ear biz anyway.
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There's alway's the bass-solo... :mrgreen:
A very nice set-up...
"The Sunn hasn't set, on this boy yet..."
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OK, so now I have almost an hour noodling around and switching heads back and forth. I hooked up both the GK 4x10 and the Peavey 1x15 (in the pic above) to each amp. With the EQ set as close to identically as possible on both heads, I'd say the Sunn has a slightly 'warmer" sound, meaning that the top end frequencies have less bite. Other than that, I'm not hearing any difference I could name. I tried a couple of basses - first my Gretsch Junior Jet, then my trusty '63 P with the decades-old flatwound strings.
My practice room is upstairs and is probably 12 to 15 feet square. I think I could make the curtains flap and dust shake from the walls with either head. it may be "new toy" effect, but my inclination at this point is to move the Sunn into #1 gig position and bring the Behringer as a backup. That's a nice step up from the 140W Hartke I've been bringing as a backup.
I will say again - I've never used an amp where the EQ controls made as much audible difference in sound and gain as these. It's rather remarkable!
I've also found an owner's manual and uploaded it to my Photobucket account. If you need it, just hit this link - all pages are .jpg files that print on 8.5.x11 paper..... http://tinyurl.com/qp9m9d
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Oh yeah, nice score 8)
Rick
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I've been playing around with it some more - it seems to be extremely versatile; the wide range of EQ actually encourages me to use the EQ and shape the sound...it just takes a tweak and the sound changes significantly.
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Where you will really notice the effect of that EQ is when you get it out in a large room, or even more so, in an awkward shaped large room. It will give you a much improved capability to get "your sound" and "fill the room". My Seymour Duncan head has a very effective EQ also, and in a small room or in a place with excellent acoustics that EQ doesn't mean all that much but when you need it......it's there.
I've done a few side by side comparisons with some of my other amps and other peoples amps and in a small room (or in the store) everything sounds good and any difference seems very small. When you get them out somewhere and open them up things change :o.
For "room filling " capability most people focus soley on the speaker cabinet and raw power. A good EQ not only helps in filling the room it gives you the ability to fill the room with something that sounds good ;) My 2 cents :)
Rick
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I found out why the EQ is different than most. The quote is on Rich Briere's Sunn Shack page, in an interview with Conrad Sundholm who founded Sunn:
"But the Coliseum series, that included the bass amp used by the Who, was a unique preamp circuit because each of the tone controls was a separate preamp. You could turn it all the way off, so you had ultimate tone control. A lot of versatility - you could turn the midrange off or turn the bass off or the treble, it used active filters. It was just coming out when I left." (Italics added)
Interesting decision to design it that way - and I like it!
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Nice score! Now you need to get a matching 215B cab to go with it!
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I just sold my old 60's Fender 2x15 cab last fall because it was too much of a pain to move around....although the weight of the 4x10 I bought to replace it makes me wonder.
But it seems like many of the folks who have the Sunn heads go with 2x15 Sunn cabs....maybe to keep the vintage vibe going?
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The older 215 Sunn cabs are killer. I really miss my old 215S. I had a buddy of mine when I was in high school that played through a Coliseum 300 with matching 215B cab. He used a brand new 1978 Jazz Bass through it and it killed! Back then I was using my Gibson G3 with a Peavey Bass head and matching 215 cab.