The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bass Amps & Effects => Topic started by: Pilgrim on November 15, 2009, 08:33:15 PM
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Yesterday my band played an afternoon gig on the stage of a new music store...they took over a building that had housed a large electronics store and added a coffee shop with stage in front. Makes a nice place for them to invite bands that make up their custoemr base.
They set up a brand new Genz Benz Shuttle STL 6.0 head on a 12T speaker for me, and I didn't even take my cab and Sunn amp out of the car. This is an amazing combo with amp that weighs 3.75 pounds and speaker at 27 pounds. Total: 32 pounds with the amp mounting shell on the cab - I can literally lift it with one finger! The speaker cab is only 18" x 18 1/2" x 14 1/4".
In contrast, I bought a 4x10 G-K cab last summer and at 93 pounds I don't even want to take it out of the house. Bad call on my part, although it's a wonderful sounding cab.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/GB6-12T.jpg)
Here's a link to the product page: http://www.genzbenz.com/?fa=detail&mid=2258&sid=610&cid=95
I really wondered what it would sound like - and when i fired it up, it had the guts and depth of any 15" setup I've ever played. It made the whole stage bounce - I was simply amazed. Checked the specs and that little amp puts 375W into 8 ohms, 600W into 4 ohms. With its tube preamp, it has a nice warm tube sound.With two of those 12" cabs stacked, this thing would create cracks in the earth. I just can't believe the power and sound out of that single 12" speaker in that small cab enclosure.
The gig was standing room only - customers stopped while entering and exiting the store (the coffee shop is the entry point, but it's walled off from the store) and many of them stuck around for a long time. Of course, you don't often hear surf music played the way it was done back in the 60's - and that's the vibe we strive for. Everyone said the bass was well balanced and solid.
Both my back and my ears tell me that I may have found something important. I am going to go back in and play with this combo...and if it still sounds as good, I am seriously considering getting it (with a second 12 for versatility) and selling off my other cabs (Peavey 15, G-K 4x10 and homemade 12") and all but one backup amp (I have three of varying power levels). Retail is around $1400 on this pair, but they'll sell the amp/cab for $708. I am seriously considering putting my days of moving 50 to 100 pound speakers behind me.
Anyone else have experience with Genz-Benz, and especially with this setup? It's pretty new to their line...but it's unlike anything else I've played.
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I had expectation of what you describe Al when I tried the Shuttle 6.0 into a GB 1 x 15 cab (cant remember which one now). I loved the concept of a Tube pre combined with a class D power stage in small package. It sounded great when I was playing it by myself so I asked the shop guy to take it off the raised wooden floor and put it on the carpeted concrete floor out in the drum section. I asked one of the drummers out there if they would mind playing a few beats with me and was very dissapointed with the results. I couldnt keep up volume wise and the guy wasn't a particularly heavy hitter. I also got the impression that when I went for accents and tried to push it more (with my fingers) it gave the feeling of a limiter cutting in.
I loved the tone at low volume but it simply wasn't an option for me at full volume.
Its good that it works for you because as I mentioned, the concept and tone therein is great.
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I use a different brand from G/B, but a WTX260 and dual 112XLTs have been covering most of my gigs since 2006. Live recordings tell me the tone is solid without any mud. My rack case and 410s usually stay home (though I keep them around for one project). The question is whether you 12's vs 15's better.
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I asked the shop guy to take it off the raised wooden floor and put it on the carpeted concrete floor out in the drum section. I asked one of the drummers out there if they would mind playing a few beats with me and was very dissapointed with the results. I couldnt keep up volume wise and the guy wasn't a particularly heavy hitter. I also got the impression that when I went for accents and tried to push it more (with my fingers) it gave the feeling of a limiter cutting in.
Interesting! The room we were in was perhaps 20x50 with an elevated stage made of plywood, and I could feel the stage floor move when I hit some of the notes, even though the stand under the speaker was flipped up so the speaker was pointing upward at about a 30 degree angle. This AM I heard a recording that someone made when standing about 2/3 back in the room, and the bass balanced well with both guitars and the drummer, who is a surf drummer with strong attack. I did imagine there was some fuzziness on the open E when I really pounded it, but I'm going to research that when I get back to the store and work it out solo. it may have been that the tube preamp was turned up and tube distortion was resulting...which would have been a 60's sound anyway.
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I stopped by the store and tried the Shuttle 6.0 with two T12 cabs tonight and I'm in lust. What a fantastic sound- and with the tube preamp turned up, it sounds warm and lovely. The two 12's put out so much sound that I can't imagine needing more.
And the store got a special deal because they had the manufacturer in for a clinic a couple of weeks ago - I can buy the Shuttle 6 head and BOTH T12 speakers for $1057. That's more money than I have ever spent on amps and cabs, but I think it would be the one that would last.
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I stopped by the store and tried the Shuttle 6.0 with two T12 cabs tonight and I'm in lust.....I can buy the Shuttle 6 head and BOTH T12 speakers for $1057........but I think it would be the one that would last.
;D Yeah, I've said that before too.... The first time I said it it had to have been about 1976...... " Honest Mom! I will never need another ( bass, amp head, speaker cab, speaker, footpedal.....) if I can just have this one! ;) Except now it's replaced with Honest Hon!, I just can't see ever needing..... ;D
Honestly, if we look hard enough there's probably some kind of 12 step program that would cover this :-[
Back on track one of my fears of these pricey little super light weight amps is that they can vaporize very fast if not watched cloesely or bolted down >:( - not going to happen with an Ampeg. Still I've been looking real hard at a couple of the Mark Bass heads - I'm intrigued with the modular thing they've come up with.
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I went for it tonight - sent the store an email telling them to hold the Shuttle 6.0 and two T12 speakers.
At age 59, I don't think I'm likely to go through many more cabs - and these are just right. Here's a spookey thought - I'll be able to carry all my gear to a gig in my 1983 280ZX!
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cool car Al. Congrats on pulling the trigger. I guss I should have mentioned that I was playing an offthe rack Marcus Miller bass when I tested it. I'm not very familiar with the controls on these MM preamps. Thought I had it as flat as I could though.
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I use a Genz ShuttleMAX 12.0 to drive my two (4 ohms each) Genz GB410T-XB3 cabs. I've been using G-B gear for the past four years and have been extremely happy with it. Love the versatility of having two separate preamp channels that can be combined and now with the ShuttleMAX 12.0 having 2 separate 600 watt Class D power amps that weighs only 6.75 lbs. A far cry from my GBE 1200 which was weighing in at 60 lbs in its rack. And at 57, the lighter the better!
TD
(http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/Thornton_Davis/ShuttleMAX12_3_A.jpg)
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It appears there is a whole new range of lightweight, efficient and powerful Class D amps coming out. Peavey has a new lightweight line, there's Markbass and Genz-Benz, Ashdown (Superfly) and I'm sure there are others. Eden has been in that market for some time, although I didn't look to see if they're class D or not.
The 12.0 has the two separate preamps, the 6.0 does not - but I am especially impressed by the effect of the 6.0's tube pre-amp; turning it up adds a lot of warmth to the signal, and a slight tube OD is easily obtained. That suits the surf and classic rock we play very well.
I've been too cheap before this to look at the new micro heads - I'm glad my eyes were opened by having the chance to play through one. I really look forward to NOT transporting heavy amps and cabs around...and I'm going to be selling stuff very soon.
I haven't yet decided whether to sell my treasured but heavy Sunn coliseum-300 amp. It would make a logical backup head for this system, but it's such a boat anchor - it weighs more than the Shuttle 6.0 head and one of the T12 speakers combined.
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The 12.0 has the two separate preamps, the 6.0 does not - but I am especially impressed by the effect of the 6.0's tube pre-amp; turning it up adds a lot of warmth to the signal, and a slight tube OD is easily obtained.
Not only does the SM12 have two separate preamp channels, it also has two separate 600 watt power amps in it. All weighing a grand total of 6 3/4 lbs.
TD
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I should weigh my Hiwatt sometime... :o
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I've just just retired my faithful 25kg Perreaux 5000B (Mosfet) power amp for a more respectable 7kg Class D Peavey DPC 1000. Both the same power output. Quite impressed with the clarity and warmth ofthe power of the Peavey. I was originally looking to buy a Powersoft D2004 but at the equivalent of US$3000. I was struggling to find a way to make it happen. I picked the Peavey up just to try it out and for only $350 secondhand.
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Financially, that sounds like a MUCH more attractive deal!
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I use a Genz ShuttleMAX 12.0 to drive my two (4 ohms each) Genz GB410T-XB3 cabs. I've been using G-B gear for the past four years and have been extremely happy with it. Love the versatility of having two separate preamp channels that can be combined and now with the ShuttleMAX 12.0 having 2 separate 600 watt Class D power amps that weighs only 6.75 lbs. A far cry from my GBE 1200 which was weighing in at 60 lbs in its rack. And at 57, the lighter the better!
TD
(http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/Thornton_Davis/ShuttleMAX12_3_A.jpg)
Dang.
That ought to cause cracks to appear in the earth! Very impressive!
The new lightweight amps and cabs are really interesting to those of us who are tired of carrying heavy gear.
Here's my transport vehicle, now that I don't need my 1999 Blazer to carry the cab (hey, I started this thread, I can derail it, too...):
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Cars/280ZX.jpg)
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I smell "mid-life-crisis" here... ;D
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I smell "mid-life-crisis" here... ;D
Not really - I've owned that car since 1990 and my family loevs it, too.
In terms of amps, I'd say moving to lighter gear is a "mid-back crisis".
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i mixed a band at the ruby lounge on saturday night and their bass player had a genz benz amp and cab ,he was playing a jcs with flats into it.i have to say it sounded great.it was a very small amp with a tube preamp and a 2x12 cab.nice dispersion of the sound nice tonal balance and as he said very bloody light.
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Regardless of all the different concepts out there I (and my back) have come to the conclusion that Valve pre into Class D power amp is currently the ONLY way to go. ;D
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In that case you should try the Orange Terror Bass!
I expect that little monster any day now for a review
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I look forward to that review Rob
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In terms of amps, I'd say moving to lighter gear is a "mid-back crisis".
I weighed my Hiwatt tonight... clocks in at 45lbs/20kg
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I weighed my Hiwatt tonight... clocks in at 45lbs/20kg
I am sure my Seymour Duncan head is real close to that....... and it's a freakin' solid state :o. It dates back to around 1990, a time before lightweight power transformers were really happening. They were available but it seems like they weren't using them in more powerful amps. The SOB is heavy but it has a great sound, great power and an incredible low end.
Rick
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45 lbs., that's as heavy as my Mesa Bass 400+ (without rack enclosure).
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My Sunn Coliseum-300 head by itself is only about 3 pounds lighter than my new G-B Shuttle 6.0 head mounted on a 12T speaker. Incredible difference...and the G-B head puts out 2x the power of the Sunn when connected to a 4-ohm load.
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My GK Backline 600 head is only 8-9 lbs. It's cheap , sounds great and it's 300watts 4ohm/180 watts 8ohm. I've become a big fan of GK stuff since picking one up a few years ago. Their stuff is good bang for the buck and it won't break your back either.
I've never tried a Genz Benz bass amp but I've got a buddy who has a single 12" acoustic guitar amp and it is a first class piece of work.
I have purposely avoided trying Genz Benz and MarkBass strictly because I'm really afraid I will like them. I know the limitations of my will power :sad:.
When I bought my Seymour Duncan about 20 years ago, I walked past it a hundred times and laughed at the ridiculously high price tag . The salesman asked me every time I walked in the place if I wanted to check it out and I turned him down each time..........each time but once :-[
That was the day I took it home.
Rick
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I have purposely avoided trying Genz Benz and MarkBass strictly because I'm really afraid I will like them. I know the limitations of my will power :sad:.
You are wise. I played through the G-B shuttle 6.0 at a short gig, and the rest was pretty much pre-ordained. And I don't regret selling off the stuff that I had sitting around unused to pay for most of it.
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SCOTT...! Just how heavy is that 200w Hiwatt you've got... mines built like a tank... there is a missing back section, to, so it should be slightly heavier...