The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Outpost Cafe => Topic started by: Granny Gremlin on March 31, 2014, 08:13:04 AM
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So we've got the classic rock represented, here's a spot for the the stuff that really turned me/the younger members among us on as we developed musically. Very loose defenition of postpunk. The only rule is that nobody, under any circumstances, post Love Will Tear Us Apart, or Synthpop generally.
I'll start it off with some German stuff Uwe is ashamed to have turned me on to accidentally, and then a few other things to get the ball rolling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmpPV-AX_qU&feature=kp
Obviously, we need some Hooky in here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihCbVT637aM
Severin (and as a drummer, Budgie; for his work with The Banshees as well as with the Slits):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZgNlWRWtp0
Speaking of the Slits, Tessa Polit totally took the torch of women holding it down while the guitard wanks off and vocalists spread their ass feathers from Kaye and Quatro. Uwe, I expect a translation of that (I am just making an educated guess here) gibberish at the beginning. RIP Ari.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D8LmUHW48s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyXGblps64M
Can't leave out Gallup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnVldyHRcjU
Mani:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRswxxT3HQ8
The song that made me think that fretless might be cool after all (session guy in studio, obviously; these dudes usually had synth bass parts):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhunWV1HfL0
... And cap it off with one of my favorite contemporary local groups. The only way to experience these guys was getting tossed around in front bumping into the vocalist and getting hip checks from the bass player. I dunno why they always recorded their stuff so oddly dryly; but most live vids sound hilariously bad even by iphone standards - an absolute shame you can rarely hear the bass at all - or I would have chosen a different song (I'm in the vid at 6:04, holding a beer next to the dude who didn't have the foresight, as I did, to remove his glasses... which was obviously after the show pictured at 6:39, where I have my glasses on and learned my damn lesson.... lol at 7:05 and the Toronto FD at 7:58; who the fugg made this vid? Those were good times):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQdjJkKwV5Y
OK I lied, I'll post these local dudes too (recently signed to Geffen, I think) just because an old band of mine used to play a lot of shows with them and the dude rocks the snot out of a Gibson RD Artist:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA6C6xGYKz4
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Aw sheeeet; an actual high quality live vid of Anagram. I think this was their last show before breaking up (and basically reforming under a new name a few months later).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqXUjAujxU8
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Not sure what you mean with "younger members" - an alien concept here - but, wot, no Smiths/Morrissey or New Model Army?!!!
I loved these guys, a New Model Army spin off:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ictO1zMxPs
And them - who never escaped the "poor man's Simple Minds with a little Billy Idol rolled in":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcXnebH_muA
Does New Order qualify? Liked this here too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipbobacFiUY
Oh, and her or is she too Canadian to be post-punk?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHzCbjNmgYs
Plus another Neue Deutsche Welle goody:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5N_risYAUw
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Not sure what you mean with "younger members" - an alien concept here - but, wot, no Smiths/Morrissey or New Model Army?!!!
I was teasing you Gerries. ... and as much as I dig The Smiths, the bass playing (and especially tone) had nothing to do with it (for me). ...but where do you dig this stuff up, dude - never heard of her... though points for Interzone.
Also I totally meant to include these guys in my OP, but got sidetracked with nostalgia and forgot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEvAn6ICDEY
Not a fan of the bass tone, but these guys are so Joy Division gets funky during a Dr Who cover that I have to let it slide.
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I've got a friend who talks about post-punk a lot. He used to be in this New Zealand band in the 80s. Maybe this is post-punk, or maybe it isn't. I've honestly never fully understood what post-punk is even supposed to be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63YtY13zZEE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsQLB_RFsEM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdEQgJ_xF40
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I've honestly never fully understood what post-punk is even supposed to be.
That's probably the point, actually.
Those guys remind me of the Monks (not the 60s band, the 80s one; both are good).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvDVQ-1NSDw
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Wire were post-punk almost before punk.:) This is one of their greatest pop songs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71KWoW2x06Y
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"I've honestly never fully understood what post-punk is even supposed to be."
The conventional wisdom to this is that it means "adding a fourth bar chord after you have learned to tune".
Ok, ok, 'twas in jest!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: I had the Ramones debut one or two weeks after it came out, the NME hymns about it practically forced you to buy it (and I liked it) - that was when Jake's parents hadn't even met yet, much less conceived the talented young man!!!
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"I've honestly never fully understood what post-punk is even supposed to be."
The conventional wisdom to this is that it means "adding a fourth bar chord after you have learned to tune".
Ok, ok, 'twas in jest!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: I had the Ramones debut one or two weeks after it came out, the NME hymns about it practically forced you to buy it (and I liked it) - that was when Jake's parents hadn't even met yet, much less conceived the talented young man!!!
I had a vague idea, but maybe a little too vague to be considered precise. I think a few more blanks have been filled in now. I may have been around it a little more than I realized, though.
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That's probably the point, actually.
Those guys remind me of the Monks (not the 60s band, the 80s one; both are good).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvDVQ-1NSDw
That also gives me some more perspective. Interesting.
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"I've honestly never fully understood what post-punk is even supposed to be."
The conventional wisdom to this is that it means "adding a fourth bar chord after you have learned to tune".
Ok, ok, 'twas in jest!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: I had the Ramones debut one or two weeks after it came out, the NME hymns about it practically forced you to buy it (and I liked it) - that was when Jake's parents hadn't even met yet, much less conceived the talented young man!!!
You jest, but it sounds like you don't have a remote idea of what's considered post-punk. It's not the Ramones.
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I found a list of post-punk bands. I'm not sure if this helps much or not. Now I'm seeing what are called post-punk bands which I might think of as alternative rock bands. Also, there seems to be a link between post-punk and alternative, complicated by the fact that alternative rock can also be an umbrella term for anything that isn't mainstream.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_post-punk_bands
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Oh Granny you've got me started! This is my stuff. Must show some restraint....
okay first off, missing from the many great English bands you posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jyTD6L6z7w
Burma!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrtaMTYBU-A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u57w08zgpVw
Husker Du ... somehow they got called "hardcore" before that became an orthodoxy... to me they had more in common with the bands in this thread than with anything labeled "hardcore", but eh it's all just labels... :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qwrl_dru5A
And... Watt! With the Minutemen... what a drummer George Hurley is/was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiNAwf7BSPE
A little more obscure ... Agitpop, one of my favorites, who apparently left behind little to no decent live footage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNnkg11tUSY
Going a different direction... if you slow down the Husker Du wall of noise and make it spacey and psychedelic enough it might turn into My Bloody Valentine... there are live clips but they are, erm, challenging to listen to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhxXn60Z0yk
And... love 'em or hate 'em... I will love them forever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi4Z-7VtCZE
As for what is and isn't post-punk: it's a catch-all for a lot of disparate things, most of whom probably never thought of themselves as "post-punk", so it's pretty meaningless to debate what the boundaries are. I think of it as a historical label more than a musical one... underground music that evolved out of the punk scene and laid the groundwork for what later became called "alternative", which was more or less the same thing.
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I picked up this 7" in 1980 and have always thought of this as post-punk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqn-1z-B4CM
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You jest, but it sounds like you don't have a remote idea of what's considered post-punk. It's not the Ramones.
Duh, Dave! :rolleyes: I was attempting to get across that I listened to punk even before post-punk, the original as opposed to the 2nd generation. Philosophically, I was trying to impress "it's ok to like Post-Punk, I even listened to what spawned it". I will from now on accompany all my postings with a manual of explanation and deciphering.
I owned both New York Dolls albums already (and liked them, especially In Too Much Too Soon) when they were still regarded as a glam-hard rock band. Two years later they were all of the sudden the grandfathers of punk.
Post-Punk, hard core style, is to me probably something like the Dead Kennedies or Black Flag, is that an accurate assumption?
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ny dolls grandfathers of punk? i think not. they were a rock band, pure and simple.
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I woiuldn't call myself an expert on the history, or what is or isn't "hardcore" (or "punk" or "postpunk" for that matter) - an exercise which I think is inherently doomed -
I tend to side with Mike Watt's line that "Punk is whatever we made it to be."
But it can be fun to bat labels around anyway, so: yes Uwe, Black Flag was considered one of the originators of hardcore. The Dead Kennedys qualified as well, I think they came a bit later.
Black Flag got restless though; while a lot of bands quickly ossified hardcore into a formula, Black Flag, around the time Rollins became the lead singer, went from being the fastest band around to being the slowest (but still most abrasive-sounding), eg. "Damaged"; from there they veered off into avant-noise atonal jams that are hard to characterize.
There was also an important early hardcore scene in Washington, DC. Minor Threat and Bad Brains would probably be the best known. Bad Brains eventually evolved into a more metal-edged sound.
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I found a list of post-punk bands. I'm not sure if this helps much or not. Now I'm seeing what are called post-punk bands which I might think of as alternative rock bands. Also, there seems to be a link between post-punk and alternative, complicated by the fact that alternative rock can also be an umbrella term for anything that isn't mainstream.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_post-punk_bands
Yep. PP and Alt both were umbrella terms (as was punk, really - I mean, name 2 1st wave punk bands that sounded the same to be considered an aesthetic genre; before hardcore and Ramones cloning - The Pistols were nothing like the Clash who were nothing like Television who were nothing like ....).
Basically PP is the well from which a bunch of other genres sprang out of. Gothic rock, Madchester, Shoegaze, Emo (before it got formulaic and shitty), Noise, Drone etc. Eventually some nerds decided to codify what PP means and made that list, but as I said in my OP, I don't care to use too rigid a definition here; not the point. To confuse things further, Punk was originally considered part of New Wave by the journos (the British ones; the Americans not so much). It only later came to be more restricted to post punk (not capital Ps) synthpop.
Anyway, Slinkp's got it. Gang of Four is one of those bands I always knew I should be in to, but I just never got over how shitty some random record of theirs (4 live tracks on a 12" 45 IIRC) that I bought at a garage sale (or something) was (not anything like what I was expecting from what I was hearing; more like Slade hungover actually) and never gave them another chance. The track Slinkp posted is much more like it - if I heard that first I might have gotten more into them.
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ny dolls grandfathers of punk? i think not. they were a rock band, pure and simple.
Once again, we are in agreement, Nofi. We should really move together. I solemnly promise to play Prog, AOR and Heavy Metal CDs only when you are not at home!!! And my Air Supply Greatest Hits never again. I'm a good cook!
When the New Musical Express "broke" punk in 76/77 (it was the English music publication on the forefront of advocating it, Melody Maker was slower to get on the train and Sounds stuck relatively long to the hard rock bandwagon before eventually morphing into Kerrang), bands that had before been branded as "not so competent players, but noisy and hard" such as The New York Dolls and The Stooges were all of the sudden dusted off as sources of inspiration for the punks (the third band were the MC5 which were all of the sudden hailed as proto-punks when before they had been put in the heavy metal shelf). Malcolm McLaren had of course managed the latter day New York Dolls (when they were already on their way down, ie after release of their two albums which had gone nowhere), so he was quick to portray himself as having already managed a "punk band" ahead of The Sex Pistols. McLaren and Lydon/Rotten were always circling each other guardedly on who invented The Sex Pistols first.
In 1975 you would have been hard-pressed in finding either The Stooges, The New York Dolls or the MC5 mentioned in the British music weeklies, in 1976/77 they were hailed as the seeds of the new movement. The buzzsaw sound of The Ramones was credited to The New York Dolls, The Dictators were hailed as the new MC5 and every punk musician professed to have owned Raw Power (which beckons the question why to the chagrin of Iggy it sold so poorly when it came out). Very few journos dared to point out that something like Televison's debut might - sneering vocals aside - have musically more to do with something as unhip as Wishbone Ash than, say, The Stooges.
Even the "old guard" was quickly full of praise: A young Steven Tyler said in a CBS rock monthly: "People say we look like the New York Dolls and that Joe and I are Johnny Thunders and David Johansen clones, but in truth, while we all love the Dolls, music comes first with us and is the basis of our success". And Morgan Fisher of Mott the Hoople/Mott praised the Dolls for the iconic first-time impression they made on him when they opened for his band.
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bands that had before been branded as "not so competent players, but noisy and hard" such as The New York Dolls and The Stooges were all of the sudden dusted off as sources of inspiration for the punks (the third one was the MC5 which were all of the sudden hailed as proto-punks when before they had been put in the heavy metal shelf). ...
In 1975 you would have been hard-pressed in finding either The Stooges, The New York Dolls or the MC5 mentioned in the British music weeklies, in 1976/77 they were hailed as the seeds of the new movement. The buzzaw sound of The Ramones was credited to The New York Dolls, The Dictators were hailed as the new MC5 and every punk musician professed to have owned Raw Power (which beckons the question why to the chagrin of Iggy it sold so poorly when it came out). Very few journos dared to point out that something like Televison's debut might - sneering vocals aside - have musically more to do with something as unhip as Wishbone Ash than, say, The Stooges.
The Stooges did set the stage for punk in a number of ways. Attitude/spectacle as well as loud/noisey/riffage vs virtuosic solos being chief among them. The MC5 thing was mostly due to the NY punk scene honestly being into them (and answering interview questions accordingly). This isn't it, but I distinctly remember a classic snap of Patti Smith, in this same MC5 Tshirt, though when it was in better shape (+docs and not much else IIRC), otherwise dishevelled on the floor of some loft.
(http://cloud.lomography.com/576/876/31/5eb82b89447e7ca1bf7e945204067bf8c73f52.jpg)
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that may have been the concert i saw. mott, aerosmith and dolls. i think it was 1974. was fisher in mott at that time.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ee4bfu_t3c
Someone had to post this somewhere. I'm not sure where it belongs.
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that may have been the concert i saw. mott, aerosmith and dolls. i think it was 1974. was fisher in mott at that time.
Yes, he was. And Mott were also signed to CBS.
So how was that gig? Any recollection? Aerosmith probably played everybody's ass off. They were still young and hungry then, yet well-honed from endless tours and not yet filled to the brim with Peruvian produce.
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The Stooges did set the stage for punk in a number of ways. Attitude/spectacle as well as loud/noisey/riffage vs virtuosic solos being chief among them. The MC5 thing was mostly due to the NY punk scene honestly being into them (and answering interview questions accordingly). This isn't it, but I distinctly remember a classic snap of Patti Smith, in this same MC5 Tshirt, though when it was in better shape (+docs and not much else IIRC), otherwise dishevelled on the floor of some loft.
(http://cloud.lomography.com/576/876/31/5eb82b89447e7ca1bf7e945204067bf8c73f52.jpg)
Well she did get what she wanted in the end! And didn't even have to change her name for it. She married MC5 guitarist Fred "Sonic" Smith.
(http://images.dangerousminds.net/uploads/afiles/smiths.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGMDO_PfDrY
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Duh, Dave! :rolleyes: I was attempting to get across that I listened to punk even before post-punk, the original as opposed to the 2nd generation. Philosophically, I was trying to impress "it's ok to like Post-Punk, I even listened to what spawned it". I will from now on accompany all my postings with a manual of explanation and deciphering.
I owned both New York Dolls albums already (and liked them, especially In Too Much Too Soon) when they were still regarded as a glam-hard rock band. Two years later they were all of the sudden the grandfathers of punk.
Post-Punk, hard core style, is to me probably something like the Dead Kennedies or Black Flag, is that an accurate assumption?
New York Dolls did influence punk. They were never considered a punk rock band except maybe in the minds of some music writers.
Dead Kennedys and Black Flag were generally considered American punk bands, not post-punk.
But I agree that post-punk, like alt-rock, is an umbrella term. If it wasn't overwrought 70s arena rock, wasn't pure punk, wasn't too poppy, wasn't metal or overtly new wave, it got thrown in. Everything from the Replacements to The Smiths.
Post-punk or new wave? Or both? Maybe Stan Ridgway should get his own genre.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyCEexG9xjw
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I remember the first time I heard "Mexican Radio." It has to get credit for being original. I certainly had never heard anything else like it.
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"overwrought 70s arena rock ..."
No idea what he could mean with that term.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrAbLntD5Wk
Let's not ask the question why - with all the rock press and media support it had - there never was a punk or post-punk band (well, not quite true, if you consider Green Day post-punk they make the stadium grade) that could sell out a stadium in its heyday much less still fill decent-sized halls 20 or 30 years after its heyday.
Are "overwrought 70s arena rock fans" just more faithful or is it the staying and buying power of baby boomers who stuck with what they liked as teenagers? Is punk a music of the moment that needs to be delivered with contremporary urgency in a live setting, but doesn't "store" well or "last"? No market for a 5.1 remaster of Never Mind the Bollocks?
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"overwrought 70s arena rock ..."
No idea what he could mean with that term.
:mrgreen: :vader:
I see you added to your post after I replied.
If you think the appeal or quality of a genre or a particular album is determined by whether anyone wants a 5.1 remaster of it, then you don't understand the appeal of it at all.
Aside from the fact that I only have a 2.0 stereo and no desire for anything more, I can't think of anything in my music collection that would be made better by remastering. Oh sure, in retrospect some 50s and 60s rock & roll and country singles could have been mixed better, but the song is what appealed to me, not the recording quality.
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Let's not ask the question why - with all the rock press and media support it had - there never was a punk or post-punk band (well, not quite true, if you consider Green Day post-punk they make the stadium grade) that could sell out a stadium in its heyday much less still fill decent-sized halls 20 or 30 years after its heyday.
Are "overwrought 70s arena rock fans" just more faithful or is it the staying and buying power of baby boomers who stuck with what they liked as teenagers? Is punk a music of the moment that needs to be delivered with contremporary urgency in a live setting, but doesn't "store" well or "last"? No market for a 5.1 remaster of Never Mind the Bollocks?
To run with your (poorly chosen) example, the Pistols did sell out arenas/stadiums on their Filthy Lucre (90s reunion) tour (e.g. here in TO). Granted that's not their 'heyday' but illustrates that their support is stronger than ever (or that their fanbase grew up, got jobs and exposed their youger siblings/friends to them). The reason that that they didn't do that volume in their heyday was their status as an underfunded, fringe group. The Clash sold out stadiums in their heyday for sure (well, maybe not stadiums, but playing Bonds for 2 months straight has got to count for something.... they did play actual US stadiums opening for The Who, and in Britain as headliners, dunno if they literally sold out those shows though).
The reason that there isn't a 5.1 remaster of Bollocks is because 5.1 remasters ARE bollocks. An actual Pistols fan wouldn't buy it (they'd download the original, or maybe even the remaster out of curiosity, or buy a used copy). .. though I'm sure I've seen a 180gr 'audiophile' vinyl (also [mostly/usually] bollocks FYI) reissue of the LP before (but they've done that for everything).
70s area rock was fuelled by this populist lets all be part of the group thing; peer pressure/belonging thing. The bands were (relatively) safe (with a few exceptions; KISS had a little bit of a hard time here and there due to the whole evil-looking thing, but nothing like that faced by the Pistols - banned from the radio and concert venues in England - even the Clash had shows cancelled by promoters just for the genre association) and so was the music. Punk was always meant to be the antithesis of arena rock, so I really don't get the point here. Not olny that but think of who was a music fan, demographically at that time. Boomers (tail end, but still). Punk just didn't have that potential fanbase size to work with; it took time for multiple generations to add up to that (but it has, and I dare say you'll find more Pistols fans int he world today than Deep Purple.... or at least Slade).
Green Day is not post punk. They started out as an relatively honest nth generation punk band and just got big (so get slagged by 'the real punks' - the Clash had that sort of asshat pegged on their debut record - that was one thing that was pretty new about punk: critisising/overtly mocking your audience - both Lydon and Strummer did a lot of that;, though obviously one was more mocking and one was more criticising/scolding). ... not that I am a fan, they have gotten a bit big for their britches and ego-overgrown (that rant by Billie Joe when their set got cut short at some festival recently was hilarious), but I wish them no particular ill will and just because I'm not that into them (I was earlier - a mix of their down to earthness then and my youth I imagine) don't mean they ain't punk (frankly, most things these days that aren't contrived pop sensations can be arguably considered punk on some level and anyone who argues that is forgetting what was important about that movement in the first place).
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more pistols than purple fans? not in your wetest punk rock dreams.
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A little more obscure ... Agitpop, one of my favorites, who apparently left behind little to no decent live footage.
Wow Agitpop I saw them 5 or 6 times always great, a unique band. I still break out Back At The Plain Of Jars a couple times a year for a listen. And yes there seems to be absolutely no decent footage of them. A post punk thread! Now you're speaking my language. Post Punk although subjectively defined probably makes up more than half of my record collection. Most of the bands I played in were of this time and genre. I saw so many of these bands. Sonic Youth, more than ten times. Swans close to ten. I saw the Flaming Lips play twice in a bar. They were unknowns. Bands like Scratch Acid which later became The Jesus Lizard. Dinosaur Jr. Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds. The list is endless. My early to mid? adult years were spent amongst the post punks. My formative years. In the 80s through about 95 or 96. I worked 10-15 days a month on TV commercials (I'm a grip), played in bands and went to shows. Good, no great times. Salad days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IK9pBpOFpk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_GgowniQWk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZiGPckX4Lo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG_YsBHWVag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5I2vEcVC_I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXOEETE7AGo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twd96jCXDWQ
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This thread made me listen to Televion's Marquee Moon again in ages and hearing it I thought that The Strokes should be paying royalties to Tom Verlaine until the end of time!
Are The Strokes post-punk then?
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when i hear the word punk i think of hardcore. everyone else is a rock band. i like the first wave of garage bands. some people call them punk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJMv5aciI-g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZExWt-bj-k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNZwCNSSWlI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBTT3VPriV8
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1. What about the Mott/Aerosmith/NYD gig, we want vivid recollections!
2. For me, Punk is very much identified with that "Summer of 77" and bands like The Ramones, The Sex Pistols, The Damned, The Stranglers, The Jam, The Adverts, Johnny Thunders & the Heartbreakers, The Clash, Television, early Blondie, The Dictators, Richard Hell, Wayne County - did I miss anyone (of course not all these bands were/stayed actually Punk)? While there are American (New York) acts in that list, I thought it was a quintessentially British thing at the time. The whole West Coast Punk thing in the US escaped me totally, no doubt for largely geographical reasons. For me, Punk was dead by 1979, wasn't that when Johnny Rotten left the Sex Pistols? I then thought that it only lived an afterlife with diehard fans of, say, The Exploited. California sun and Punk didn't go together with me, for me it was firmly identified with English dole queues. And the New Musical Express of course (which I was an avid reader of back then, I tended to check out whatever they either hailed - like The Dictators - or what they utterly condemned - like Judas Priest!). Which probably explains why I loaded the hard disk player in my office today with both Television's Marquee Moon and Foghat's Fool for the City. I'm schizoid. :mrgreen:
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how about some hazy old man memories. the dolls were lame but when i saw them in a club later on they tore the place down! i hate aerosmith so i must have blocked that memory. mott was great, just as you would expect. at shows end mott brought out all the roadies, sound men,and anyone else with the band and lined them up across the front of the stage. so this pack of about twenty guys, plus band shook hands and signed autographs for a good while. i very nice touch i thought.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu_XO6QEHok
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgGjvZcNpKs
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According to Wikipedia, this is considered punk, and influenced the Sex Pistols and Ramones. I always thought of this as just straightforward garage rock. (Dirty Water by the Standells in case the video is blocked for anyone.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOJkVmMz0pc
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That's indeed a stretch. :mrgreen: I hear more Beach Boys or Archies in The Ramones than these guys. This Standells track sounds like a blues tune, I thought both The Ramones and The Sex Pistols relatively unbluesy for rock bands. In essence, the Ramones were a stripped down, bones laid bare power pop band and I don't mean that negatively. Joey had a nice tuneful pop voice.
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There was a lot of bluesless power pop in the Ramones' music.
I have a big soft spot for 60s garage rock and some of it certainly influenced punk, but it's historical revisionism to call it punk rock. Nobody even heard of the term back then. FWIW, the first known actual mention of "punk rock music" was in a 1971 Creem article by Dave Marsh about ? and the Mysterians.
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more pistols than purple fans? not in your wetest punk rock dreams.
It's a matter of demographics - You can't count the dead ones no more :P. DP isn't really getting any more new fans while The Pistols have the echoboomers getting in to them for the last few years.
It might be close or not quite there yet, which is why I originally included a caveat when I said that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG_YsBHWVag
I've always dug these guys more then Dino Jr (who could also go in this thread), but out of all Lou Barlow related projects, I was most into Folk Implosion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYerwwTV5qc
High school sophomore me was head blown over the entire Kids Soundtrack really.
Another thing from that time was that post David Byrne Talking Heads album (The Heads - No Talking Just Head) with all sorts of people you know collaborating on vox (Michael Hutchence , Richard Hell, Debbie Harry, the dudes from Live and The Violet Femmes etc). This was the single, but there were better (less teen angsty) songs, though obviously, given my age at the time, this one drew me in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqAe0BzNQ2Y
And speaking of the Femmes, they should be here too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gproa6vzgws
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more pistols than purple fans? not in your wettest punk rock dreams.
I must come to my friend Nofi's defense here!!! Purple sold more than a 100 million units worldwide in their career, I guess that answers all questions and separates the men from the, errm, punks. :mrgreen:
But of course that is not the point. The Sex Pistols were much more a cultural impact than Purple, Purple's cultural impact was zilch, they were just another long-haired stadium band that played a littler longer (and a little better) solos than others. Or to put it differently: I'm sure that both Sex Pistols and Ramones T-shirt sales have - each - eclipsed those of DP.
Dave's 5.1 argument has a point, but it can't overcome the fact that The Sex Pistols by the very virtue of their huge cultural impact have not really created music for posterity (that was never their plan either, granted, they never wanted to become boring old farts). You take away the spitting, the scandal on TV, the EMI worker's strike refusing to print the single, Sid and Nancy's deaths, and there is not so much that remains of God Save the Queen (the single and song) other than that those arcane questioners of the US capitalist life style and urban guerillas of Mötley Crüe covered it, thus elevating it to truly political and socio-critical heights (DP never had to bear the insult of a a Mötley Crüe cover! :P ). The music just accompanied what the Pistols attempted to do, it was not their - marketing speech - "unique selling point".
That holds true for a lot of punk, the music has not left the same indelible musical stamp rock music from other periods has, punk classics which rule the airwaves are few and far between. I don't think that that has to do with the evil media and establishment still trying to keep punk down, punk influences have entered all sorts of cultural niches, be it fashion or art, were even embraced there. "God Save the Queen" is no longer an insult, much less a threat (if it ever was) to the system. The music hasn't aged well or is devoid of substance if you take away everything else. But that is maybe how Johnny Rotten wanted it, be current and dominating for a comparatively short time and then disappear while your image is left intact. Andy Warhol would have no doubt approved.
I don't believe that any of the 1977 NME scribes that hailed punk as thankfully doing away with dinosaur rock for good would have believed that a band like YES can in 2013 sell tours on cruise liners in the Carribean where the devoted pay a lot of money to hear their battle-hardened heroes play not once, but multiple times during one week. While Johnny Rotten does dairy commercials and reality shows, but sings relatively rarely (a new PIL came out, I heard that it's good, is it?) So there is a certain longevity to pre-punk craze music that punk has not musically matched. I stress "musically", not culturally where punk's influence is vast. As I write, I'm hearing a song by SIXX AM that coincidentally name-checks "Sex Pistols playing on the radio". But it is randomly (I have about 700 CDs on shuffle on my office stereo, Mike Oldfield follows Boy George follows Bob Dylan follows The Ramones follows Johnny Cash follows Giuffria, hey, I'm eclectic!) followed by Jethro Tull's Aqualung ... Of course the Steve Wilson 2011 remix and remaster, what did you think? :)
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Here are a few bands that I like, and hadn't seen mention of yet...
Killing Joke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f42MLoLbnnQ
Cocteau Twins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc9dHNVMp0w
Tubeway Army
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0WNbm1jz6A
Split Enz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWg-qkym8e8
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these guys got called post punk - video says 1984 but i think the tune is from 1979 -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNjCugzVPqA
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Darn - and I always thought Split Enz were off-the-wall prog! Crowded House must then be post-Post Punk! My outlook on life has just caved in. But then Sex Pistols guitarero Steve Jones liked to play the Smoke on the Water riff ... nothing can be trusted anymore.
Just goes to show how musical boundaries and borders - perceived ones and real ones - can be a tricky thing. And actually that is good. Especially Split Enz would have approved that boxing them as a certain genre is self-defeating. Thanks for posting a vid of them, they are mentioned far too seldom here.
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More from Killing Joke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1U1Ue_5kq8
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdeKqqw40nE
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i saw thishttp://wotzon.com/eventlisting.html?event_id=5016370 (http://wotzon.com/eventlisting.html?event_id=5016370) in 2008 - awesome! probably the best i have seen them play and i have seen them loads over the years.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdeKqqw40nE
That's a blast from the past! Thanks for posting that clip- forgot about them. Great band.
I guess "post hardcore" is what they call the stuff my band was playing around that time (can't keep up with all the sub-genres). We'd get billed with similar acts coming thru - Quicksand, Bad Brains/H.R, Daisy Chainsaw, Fugazi, Shudder to Think, etc... Unwound had been thru there too. The main venue we played was amazing - stuff going on almost every night, covers were $3-5. Saw so many great bands there during those years while it was active.
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Anybody interested in these bands might want to check out the book "Our Band Could Be Your Life". It covers the USA scene(s) only, but still a lot of musical ground; each chapter profiles a different band, in roughly chronological order. I found it pretty well written and interesting.
From the wikipedia page:
The book focuses on 13 bands:
Black Flag (from Hermosa Beach/Los Angeles, California)
Minutemen (from San Pedro/Los Angeles, California)
Mission of Burma (from Boston, Massachusetts)
Minor Threat (from Washington, D.C.)
Hüsker Dü (from Minneapolis - Saint Paul, Minnesota)
The Replacements (from Minneapolis - Saint Paul, Minnesota)
Sonic Youth (from New York City, New York)
Butthole Surfers (from San Antonio, Texas)
Big Black (from Evanston/Chicago, Illinois)
Dinosaur Jr. (from Amherst, Massachusetts)
Fugazi (from Washington, D.C.)
Mudhoney (from Seattle, Washington)
Beat Happening (from Olympia, Washington)
I listened to all of those at some point, and four of them I've seen live too ... some I missed because I got into this stuff in the late 80s when a lot of these bands were already gone, others I never had a chance to see.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcBfeE3TQMg
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Swans the heaviest of the heavy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R31AWhv02Y
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_dOCVMRL2Q
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QTyoGE-CZM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrMRks07XyY
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I saw a former punk hero and Modfather of Brit Pop pay homage to a dinosaur keyboard king on Friday: Paul Weller played at the Jon Lord (the guy from that band less popular than the Sex Pistols) Memorial Concert at the Royal Albert Hall picking out two Artwoods (Jon Lord's first professional band prior to DP) early sixties Brit R'n'B songs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYs9zsYpidY
He even had ex-Whitesnaksters Micky Moody and Neil Murray with him.
Everything has come full circle. 8)
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That's a Byrds' album ... or maybe a Doors' one ...
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Great tracks Saltymonkey! I hadn't heard a bunch of those.
Speaking of Fugazi ("post hardcore?" I guess that makes as much sense as anything) ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzC0RNkBXM0
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Great tracks Saltymonkey! I hadn't heard a bunch of those.
Me neither... I really liked the Angels of Light track. It had me digging around thru some of Gira's other stuff.
Also "discovered" Survival Knife this weekend, in the wake of that Unwound track.
Speaking of Fugazi ("post hardcore?" I guess that makes as much sense as anything) ...
They were one of those bands (like Sonic Youth) that I didn't make an immediate connection with, but somehow I came around... and they (like SY) would now be on my desert island list. Hard to even pick something to post...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCSM9QNZzLg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPEqasj1uMI
I know this is straying from post punk, but since its going there... here are a couple other post punk influenced(?) bands that I like.
(It's either this, or I start posting Human League ;D )
Nada Surf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4Wdm9wx6js
Autolux (detect some SY-esque noise-scapes in the first track "Plantlife")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVwRqtpuDVo
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4lqaWDEcHc
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I saw these guys last week on their reunion tour. I think they called it quits around 8 or 10 years ago. They killed it. Like they never stopped. Mario Rubalcaba is one of my favorite rock drummers. So solid and tasteful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNjuDGwG-iM
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Great tracks Saltymonkey! I hadn't heard a bunch of those.
Speaking of Fugazi ("post hardcore?" I guess that makes as much sense as anything) ...
Love Fugazi; Red Medicine is a tour de force. Always considered them Emo (before the tweens got a hold of the term and started dressing like the bastard love children of an aged hair metal guitarist and a gothic candy raver; back in the 90s). Along with Jawbreaker, early Modest Mouse (they're older than your kids think) and other similar quirky indie rock from the era. Emo was originally a form of Post-hardcore (i.e. keeping the lyrical themes, but expanding on them and changing focus to personal vs societal orientation, and trying to break out of the Hardcore musical formula of Ramones on steroids.
... which all reminds me of these dudes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXFkTmsq63Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKtTD2DWipQ
Been trying to track down this record for a while, actually.
And since I mentioned them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5pojx6kflw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwyh9cCUzRI
And how are there no Pixies in here yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6Ve2mgjgmY
Nirvana owes a lot to both the Pixies and Jawbreaker/early Emo in general.