The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: TBird1958 on April 22, 2008, 04:23:28 PM
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All right,
A little help here for a potential short scale newbie.......I can't help but LOVE Andy Fraser's tone on that Free clip in our Video thread. I'd like to know what model he's playing........Any possible modern day substitutes? Epi, Tokai, Greco that would do? It's not like I'd ever play it out with my band, just for around the house I think, Thanks Guys ;D
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That's a great clip. His bass is an early EB-3 (63-ish, I think) with the PG removed. I have a 68/69 that can do that same type of sound on varitone position 3 (choked mud w/bridge pickup), tone rolled off a bit. Nice and punchy, and great for fingerstyle playing down by the bridge like he was doing in Mr. Big.
...or you can dial up the raunchiness a bit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J5Rop_9QJc
I haven't had experience with modern equivalents, but the Epi Elitist EB-3 (the Japanese-made, short scale version) might get you in the ballbark. I seem to recall others saying those were pretty close in tone to the old EB-3s. You can still find unbroken 67-69 pre-slothead EB-3s in the low-mid 1K range every now and then.
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Was that Allen Woody ?
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If thats Allen he is using a mid 70's EB 3 in the clip, these can still be had for bargain prices.
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the pink SG Reissue silly!
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the pink SG Reissue silly!
You could christen it "Ms. Pinky"! :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYXMMuiP3GE
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I'm going to be an opposing view and recommend you find an EB0L, EB3L, EB4, or an SB350/450. I've found that I love playing my long scale EBs. They're very ergonomic, so the shoulder trouble I tend to get when playing my birds is never a problem with the EBs (granted, I can't play a bass hiked up to my armpits, so that's part of my problem as well, but the EB still hangs more comfortably than the Birds at whatever level it's hung). Another added benefit is that they look cool as hell and at this point probably look a little more 'anti-establishment' than even a Thunderbird does, seeing as they've been so popular over the last 20 years.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/gcarlston/Basses/ebbird-1.jpg)
You can mod them accordingly, too:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/gcarlston/Basses/Eb3l.jpg)
I have two chrome pickups and a (Warwick) bridge out of a late 90's LP that are going in this at some point. With the maple neck, it'll basically be a Fenderbird, so I'm sure it'll sound great. I plan on painting it arctic white and keeping some sort of black pick guard on it as well.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/gcarlston/Basses/Sb400.jpg)
Another great platform for modding, even though it sounds great just the way it is. These almost always need a new bridge, but that's no big deal.
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So, no real love for any Epi version? I was hoping to get away with spending a little less.
This has a good $$$ on it, Orville, anyone? this one makes me feel weak!
http://cgi.ebay.com/GIBSON-ORVILLE-EB-3-SG-BASS-1995-MIJ_W0QQitemZ230245225661QQihZ013QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Great sound from that maple necked shifted mudbucker 70s eb3!
I own a 78 EB3 and I love its sound.
I'm always after a deep and fat and dark "dubby" bass sound and I can get plenty of it from varitone pos 1 (free mud, methinks), 4 (mud + notch filter, compacting a bit the sound with tone rolled off or adding some bite if more open) and 3 (mud+bridge pickup adding a bit of edge to the attack).
Bridge pickup alone is not bad at all...i'd dare to say even a little bit fenderjazzish if you play by the bridge.
One thing that sometimes I keep on wondering is about the difference in pure mudbucker sound for 60's all mahogany EBs vs. the seventies maple necked ones. A question for someone that owns both kinds of EB basses and can hear them on the exact same system.
How much ultralows (percentage..if it makes any sense) impact got lost in transitionin from a 60 EB to a 70 EB?
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Mark if you are looking to get off cheap the Epi EB 3 is really nice for the $ They come in black, cherry or white, the white is rare but it looks sooooooooooooooooooo cool The bass is long scale. I had one once and put a 60's mudbucker it it and it sounded fantastic. http://cgi.ebay.com/Epiphone-EB3-Wine-Red_W0QQitemZ140227019384QQcmdZViewItem
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I've just played
a 63 EB-0F,
a 69/70 EB-3 Slothead,
my 72 EB-U (a maple neck seventies EB-0 with added RD Standard pup)
a 03 Epi Elitist EB-3 and
a 05 Gibson SG-RI
side by side - all with flatwounds except for the Epi. There is not that much difference in the really deep bass they provide, but your ear is fooled when listening to a sixties mudbucker by the over-abundance of deep mids and total lack of treble plus - with the Slothead - the total lack of high mids too. It sounds deeper than it is. In my view/ear, you could approximate that Andy Fraser sound with all of the basses above (using the minibucker on the Slothead, because just the mudbucker would be too deep) - close enough for any Free tribute band. Some characteristics (using just the mudbucker except where indicated otherwise):
63 EB-0F (on board distortion not used): indirect signal with lots of midrange and traces of treble, fundamental not overpowering, throaty and overdriven), second loudest signal of all
69/70 EB-3 Slothead: indirect, woofy signal, fundamentals overpower everything else, overdriven, but the lack of treble AND high mids makes it sound less throaty than the 63 EB-0F, loudest signal of all, imagine an octave divider with the original signal turned down and just the octaved signal audible (also gives you a good idea of how indirect it sounds), if you use varitone position 2 with just the minibucker you still have a sensible amount of bass though lack of deep mids makes signal more bony, positions 3 and 4 add more mids, but cut bass beyond sensible use
72 EB-U: neither the bass nor the mid frequencies overpower the treble, the mids are no less prominent than either the bass or the treble, but not as throaty/overdriven as on earlier models, bit Ric'ish in character, while there is treble, glistening presence is missing, signal more direct than the sixties EBs, but lower output
03 Epi Elitist EB-3: a mix between the 63 0F and the 72 EB-U really, just a touch more well- behaved and even-sounding, but not boring, output higher than the 72 Gibson model, but less than the sixties
2005 Gibson SG-RI: warm mellow even signal, more direct than the sixties and seventies Gibsons, less overdrive, output higher than Epi and EB-U, most reponsive bass of them all
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2005 Gibson SG-RI: warm mellow even signal, more direct than the sixties and seventies Gibsons, less overdrive, output higher than Epi and EB-U, most reponsive bass of them all
Pitty, there was a maple top one yesterday, on Ebay with BIN of $595 new!
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Ouch. I knew I shouldn't have looked in here. I'm still thinking I should get one of those someday.
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For the price they are selling them, we all should!
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"I'm going to be an opposing view and recommend you find an EB0L, EB3L, EB4, or an SB350/450. I've found that I love playing my long scale EBs. They're very ergonomic, so the shoulder trouble I tend to get when playing my birds is never a problem with the EBs (granted, I can't play a bass hiked up to my armpits, so that's part of my problem as well, but the EB still hangs more comfortably than the Birds at whatever level it's hung). Another added benefit is that they look cool as hell and at this point probably look a little more 'anti-establishment' than even a Thunderbird does, seeing as they've been so popular over the last 20 years."
Long scale EBs have a quality of their own, I really like my gunshot EB-0L, my SG-Z with the mudbucker, my EB-4 and the long scale SBs (though I favor the ergonomics of a TBird which suits me perfectly and comfortably while I find long scale SG body basses shaky affairs), but I think that a great deal of the charm of that Jack Bruce/Andy Fraser/Felix Pappalardi EB sound is down to the short scale. The lesser string tension and narrower fret spacing affects your playing - you tend to play more, also because a single deep note on a shortie doesn't quite have the authority of a long scale bass nor the full harmonics, and you tend to bend more. An abundance of notes and bending is pretty much key to the sounds of these players (also with early Jim Lea when he still played short scale).
Imagewise, I have doubts though whether a short scale SG body bass will make for an as striking appearance with Fräulein Rommel as a TBird. Mark looks tall - certainly for a woman! ;) - and that TBird in his hands together with the drag look will forever echo the late Arthur "Killer" Kane of New York Dolls fame with me. With a stubby little EB I have a hard time getting the mental picture right unless Mark goes through an image change ... Thought about growing a moustache/beard and a fizzled out mullet, Mark?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv_SruC9UzQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l67Gp9wV8Oc
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Im converting my sb400 back to orig pups .Maple neck is chunkey so Im fixin that also. I have a set neck EB3 epi carcass Im workin on. I just recd a Artec Sidewinder EBC4-CR. It reads 30K on the meter and I have heard rumors they are pretty sweet.. This bass is nice mahog etc so Im stoked. i love my Hobbit Ho for short scale and the Guild Im workin on will also be sweet,I hope. Id go for the long scale.Alan Woody was da'chit.
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"Imagewise, I have doubts though whether a short scale SG body bass will make for an as striking appearance with Fräulein Rommel as a TBird. Mark looks tall - certainly for a woman! - and that TBird in his hands together with the drag look will forever echo the late Arthur "Killer" Kane of New York Dolls fame with me. With a stubby little EB I have a hard time getting the mental picture right unless Mark goes through an image change ... Thought about growing a moustache/beard and a fizzled out mullet, Mark"
Uwe, if we went back about 10 years I looked like Slash from G-n-R, except that my hair was a bit longer, did the bandana thing and god knows having that *look* scared the crap out of a lot people, even tho I was the person you guys all know here. And FWIW you're right about the look of an EB on me, I'm 6'0" without platform boots....I need an instrument with some body mass to look right on me.
The idea of getting an EB really is supposed to kinda take me back to my very first bass which was an inexpensive japanese EB copy from the early 70's. Alot of my early influences in rock played Gibsons (Andy Fraser, Jim Lea, Dennis Dunnaway) so when my folks finally relented and put up the $$$ for a beginner bass....well it at least had to*look* like a Gibson ;D With the Nasty Habits I'll likely always play 'Birds onstage, aside from how wonderful I think they sound, I simply love the look of them and know I don't need to search any further for a *favorite* bass, color is the only question!
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Tequila Sunrise?
http://cgi.ebay.com/GIBSON-SG-SUPREME-FIREBURST-BASS-MINT-CONDITIONS-W-CS_W0QQitemZ280220676735QQihZ018QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Bottoms up!
Uwe likes his even with the tiny umbrella.
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I love short scale basses, they just don't look that great on a tall person like me while playing a TBird always projects an imposing image.
I've sung the praises of the SG RI and SG Supreme often enough here, you should check one out, Mark. It even has chrome hardware!!! I perfectly understand the nostalgia thing btw.
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I like my white Epi so far but I'm having a little trouble getting the action low enough without buzzing. That, and since I glued the ferrules to the body the bridge almost sits on top of the bass. I may go to a Supertone or heavier strings, who knows. BUT, I do like the sound even though to me it sounds nothing like an older EB-3, like Fraser's.
Cosmetically, my main bitch about the Epi is the neck joint but for the $$$ it's a pretty cool bass.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/rockinrayduke/9d66_1.jpg)
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The EB-0L and EB-3L from the slothead era do have narrow string spacing, although the advantage is partially offset by the broom handle neck that's almost an inch deep at the nut and about 1.10" at the 12th fret.
But I agree with Uwe, there's something about a short scale EB that the long scale versions don't have. It's not better or worse, just different. If you're looking for something along the lines of Andy Fraser's tone, you're more likely to find it with a short scale.
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I like my white Epi so far but I'm having a little trouble getting the action low enough without buzzing. That, and since I glued the ferrules to the body the bridge almost sits on top of the bass. I may go to a Supertone or heavier strings, who knows. BUT, I do like the sound even though to me it sounds nothing like an older EB-3, like Fraser's.
Cosmetically, my main bitch about the Epi is the neck joint but for the $$$ it's a pretty cool bass.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/rockinrayduke/9d66_1.jpg)
Sounds like the trussrod could use a twist or two. Where does it currently buzz?
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Im converting my sb400 back to orig pups .Maple neck is chunkey so Im fixin that also. I have a set neck EB3 epi carcass Im workin on. I just recd a Artec Sidewinder EBC4-CR. It reads 30K on the meter and I have heard rumors they are pretty sweet.. This bass is nice mahog etc so Im stoked. i love my Hobbit Ho for short scale and the Guild Im workin on will also be sweet,I hope. Id go for the long scale.Alan Woody was da'chit.
You have Triumph pups in there currently, right? I always thought them a bit singlecoilish in sound even though they are humbuckers, not satisfied with the result? Of course the original melody maker pups sound great on the SB 300/400 series, a very nice vintage click to them plus an surprising amount of bass.
Not very Allen Woody though, Carol Kaye more like!
Uwe
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So, no real love for any Epi version? I was hoping to get away with spending a little less.
This has a good $$$ on it, Orville, anyone? this one makes me feel weak!
http://cgi.ebay.com/GIBSON-ORVILLE-EB-3-SG-BASS-1995-MIJ_W0QQitemZ230245225661QQihZ013QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Actually Mark, if you're going the short scale route I'm sure that would be a great platform, even if you wanted to replace the pickups (not that I know of them deeding replacement). I love those Orvilles. When I had to sell stuff off, my Gibson LPs (guitar) were sold while the Orville LP remains. It's one of the best sounding and playing LPs I've ever encountered. I'm sure the basses are of the same quality.
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Well,
I took a bit of time at lunch today and played an SGRI at the GC near my work.......it was helpful.
Just based on ergonomics I think its going to have to be a long scale bass. What seemed to fit me as a young man isn't going to work now, didn't feel right. I did however like what I heard, so there's some hope for me yet. Scott's suggestion and Rockin' Ray's Epi have me thinking that's the way to go.
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Sounds like the trussrod could use a twist or two. Where does it currently buzz?
Uwe, I've twisted that trussrod every which way. Right now the strings buzz in the middle of the neck. I can back off the rod to stop it but then the action is a bit too high for me. Frustrating. I may go with a heavier or different string before I plunk down $100 on a Supertone, right now using 100-45 Slinkys.
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On my Epi I had the frets dress and that solved the buzzing problem.
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I did have the first 3 frets done, maybe it's time to do the rest.
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Almost all the new basses I bought and guitars my friend bought (even expensive Gibsons and F****rs, needed some fret dressing.
Getting used to a shortscale goes very fast! The only problem for me is changing from short to long (or the other way around) during a concert. So I always back up my T-bird with another longscale (Burns, F****r) and my SGRI with another shortscale (Starfire, 3000).
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Im converting my sb400 back to orig pups .Maple neck is chunkey so Im fixin that also. I have a set neck EB3 epi carcass Im workin on. I just recd a Artec Sidewinder EBC4-CR. It reads 30K on the meter and I have heard rumors they are pretty sweet.. This bass is nice mahog etc so Im stoked. i love my Hobbit Ho for short scale and the Guild Im workin on will also be sweet,I hope. Id go for the long scale.Alan Woody was da'chit.
Be sure to let us know how that Artec sounds once you install. I've been surious about their products as well.
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Andy Fraser - another EB3 player gone to Warwick.
http://www.gibsonbass.com/AndyFraser6.php (http://www.gibsonbass.com/AndyFraser6.php)
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I want a Buzzard.
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I want a Buzzard.
Carrion, my wayward son. :P
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Carrion, my wayward son. :P
Hahahaha.
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Stray too far and we'll have you........ ;)
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Carrion, my wayward son. :P
The wordsmith! :D :D :D
And I bet he hates Kansas too.
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I'm not a native speaker of English, so i think I don't react;)
I use some Shakespeare though, if I see my brother:
Is this a Dekker which i see before me?
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Reminds me of that great joke told in the Dude Pit a while ago:
"A buzzard boards a plane with two dead racoons underneath his wings. The flight attendant is aghast and takes him to the side: "Sir, I'm afraid we can't have the racoons here, other passengers might be offended ...". Snaps the buzzard: "You better read your boarding instructions first, lady, they say: Two pieces of carrion baggage are allowed in business class. Now get on with your work and help me find my seat!"
Uwe
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why would a buzzard need to travel by plane?
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Your lack of attention to detail is deplorable, Rob. How the hell is he gonna fly by himself if he has a dead racoon stuck underneath each wing? ;D ;D ;D
It just goes to show that diese Holländer haben keinen Humor ...
Uwe
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The wordsmith! :D :D :D
And I bet he hates Kansas too.
Their two big hits were inoffensive pop songs. My objection is that they pretended to be a "rock" band.
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Bands like Kansas killed prog by making it "girl friendly"
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I'm far from being a Kansas fan and always leaned more towards Livgren than (Steve) Walsh, but saying that they killed prog by making it listenable to girls is a bit strong. Much of their work with Livgren is unashamedly progish in nature and not AOR at all. Even the stuff from the Steve Morse era has its moments. I saw them live with Livgren and Walsh in the early eighties at an open air with Blue Öyster Cult, Iron Maiden and Foreigner, unlike Foreigner they rocked (even with a violin and Herr Walsh insisting to wear yellow PE shorts). A band like Starcastle (never mind that I like their Fountains of Light too) softened prog a lot more than Kansas ever did (perhaps to the chagrin of Walsh).
Not usually a suspect here for reborn christian rock, I admit to owning the two albums of Proto-Kaw, the band Livgren has resurrected in recent years (they were basically the original Kansas before Livgren joined forces with Walsh). Without Steve Walsh's pop influence, now that is undeniably prog rock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4Ky8VQd2pQ&feature=related
which even earned a favorable review in that non-proggie mag Rolling Stone, so there!
Uwe
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Bands like Kansas killed prog by making it "girl friendly"
Yes is popular with the female audience. My wife and I were up late one night, having a few cocktails, and she astounded me by knowing every single lyric from Going For The One.
Kansas was actually a really good band, but they got a bad rap once they became popular. I saw them fill in, unannounced, for Queen. The audience was NOT happy, but by the third song, the band had the crowd with them. I think it was the violinist who cracked the ice - "Hey, we didn't know we were supposed to be here EITHER. If I'd known you wanted Queen, I'd have worn glittered underwear."
A couple of my old band mates were previously in the remains of The Flock, whom Kansas idolized. These guys got to go backstage, and Kansas treated them like royalty.
Steve Walsh also did some time in a touring version of Cheap Trick.
And...
If you listen to stuff like "Can I Tell You?" or "Journey To Mariabronn" from the first album, you hear a different Kansas than what the radio liked.
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I once worked with a woman who at one time was Kerry Livgren's neighbor when she was very young. I'm not much of a Kansas fan, so I didn't ask her for any anecdotes. But she did mention one day that she once asked Kerry Livgren how he wrote "Carry On Wayward Son." She was expecting some kind of profound answer, but in fact he let her know that the song actually had very humble origins.
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Hmmmm, nice hijack, ya'll. ;)
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It's all Chris' fault for mentioning the Buzzard. ;D
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I keep tellin' ya that boy ain't right in the head......Non-Gibson thought = Evil!
And yet I'm still supposed to be getting married, hmmmmm.................... maybe I should have some cold feet. :D
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Sorry guys.
It was just... I had a Buzzard GAS-attack. And it is like an evolution of an Explorer or Thunderbird, isn't it? And then there's Curtis the cat formerly known as John Alec Entwistle. Every morning I get out of bed he pulled 'Bass Culture = The John Entwistle Collection' of the sheld and opened it at the Warwick Buzzard page with his tiny grey haired little thunder-paws.
I gues it's hard to marry a guy who already has two kids/cats but Curtis still loves the T-bird most!
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the inspiration, John's artwork
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/Fenderbird/buzzardJEB.jpg)
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"I gues it's hard to marry a guy who already has two kids/cats but Curtis still loves the T-bird most!"
Awwwww...You say the sweetest things, how can I not be taken with you? ;) I had some nice pics done yesterday with my T-Birds......a little risque, :o Can't wait to share them with you soon.
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I still like the original Buzzard with its oversized headstock. Now Warwick only makes a smaller 4-in-a-row headstock and the 2+2 for the cheaper bolt-on version.
Warwick is German. I think the Buzzard is the Über-bird.
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We posted at the same time:) We're made for eachother.
yeah, come on with those pics!
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"We posted at the same time:) We're made for eachother.
See, great minds think alike :)
"yeah, come on with those pics!"
There are 200 for him to sift thru, so there *should* be a couple! Maybe a week?
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"We posted at the same time:) We're made for eachother.
See, great minds think alike :)
"yeah, come on with those pics!"
There are 200 for him to sift thru, so there *should* be a couple! Maybe a week?
Sheesh! :) Would you two get a room.... or something ;D
And if there isn't going to be a wedding the soup tureen is going back to Tiffany's :P
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I never knew where the inspiration for the Buzzard came from. You learn all sorts of interesting things here on the Warwick forum. ;D
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Yeah, moderators:
We want:
A - A Warwick forum
B - A private, password secured, forum for Fraulein Dekker-Rommel and me to post love poems and more to eachother.
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I still like the original Buzzard with its oversized headstock. Now Warwick only makes a smaller 4-in-a-row headstock and the 2+2 for the cheaper bolt-on version.
Warwick is German. I think the Buzzard is the Über-bird.
Does anyone remember that bolt on Buzzard that was on eBay around 2003? I'm still pissed I didn't snag that one. I didn't like the 2+2 configuration either and thought the finish looked wrong for that shape (I think it was zebrano). All that said, it went for some ridiculous price like $1300 or something. Talk about missing the boat! Even if it was the 'lesser' model, that was a deal...
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"Sheesh! Would you two get a room.... or something "
We wouldn't come out for several days............. :D
Yeah, moderators:
We want:
A - A Warwick forum
B - A private, password secured, forum for Fraulein Dekker-Rommel and me to post love poems and more to eachother.
I'd settle for 1 of the 2..............No wankwicks please!
And to the original thread, there's acouple of nice lookin' Grecos on ebay. I'm liking 'em!
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Two companies made the Buzzed birds, correct?
Only 5 batteries to power his carbon fiber bird
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/Fenderbird/Buzza.jpg)
I have a theory as to why his tone became as artificial & brittle. I believe that he adjusted his tone for what he heard, which was confounded by the fact he too was going deaf. All those years of damage to your hearing would have effect the way you hear things vs how they really sound.
That's why I feel his best tone was from his P bass & Fenderbirds.
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I agree on the tone story:) And also about the P and Thunder/Fenderbird time. However: I heard some great things of Entwistle on an Alembic too.
Warwick designed the Buzzard and they where the first to build 'm. Modulus and Status have built them too. Entwistle played the Status versions later on and also some Warwicks with Modulus or Status necks. The Status Buzzards where one piece carbon fibre!!!!!
I believe Warwick made a carbon prototype too.
Hans-Peter Wilfer of Warwick stated for a judge he designed most parts of the bass (with a lot of drawings as evidence) in a case against JAEs son Chris Entwistle. Warwick won and they're the only one with a right to build 'm. I guess there's no real fight or argument with the Entwistle estate, cos since a couple of years they build the Entwistle Stryker too. That's an Explorer body with Buzzard headstock.
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To be fair, at least two of those five 9 volts are for the LEDs of the Status Buzzard. I know, because my Status Stealth II with active electronics and LEDs uses four 9 volts in four different compartments. Those all-graphite basses where neck and body is one and the bass is hollow (but stuffed to not sound hollow) have a sound of their own, extremely resonant, huge sustain and an attack where the tone is almost there BEFORE you've hit it! And you need to play accurately on them, every little mistake stands out. They don't sound brittle by nature, actually quite organic (but need fresh strings too), what's different to other basses is that they sound unsettlingly even all across the fretboard.
Uwe
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I believe three 9V's are for the LEDs and two for the active circuitry.
Your description of your Stealth (which you already gave on the Pit a while ago) sounds like Entwistle last years...
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I believe three 9V's are for the LEDs and two for the active circuitry.
The active circuitry for his hearing aid & heart monitor.
Cocaine is not kind to one's ticker.
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The active circuitry for his hearing aid & heart monitor.
Cocaine is not kind to one's ticker.
:D
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I'd have to think all those batteries would certainly defeat any neck-dive issues. :D
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I'd have to think all those batteries would certainly defeat any neck-dive issues. :D
Seriously, they might help if they're in the proper spot.
Seven or eight years ago I saw a T-bird for sale that had apparently been owned by Tommy Stinson, he had a lead weight inserted to counterbalance it against neck dive. Whatever works.
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What neck dive? Both of my contemporary TBs don't do it. Neither do my NRs. The neck dive issue was one thing that kept me from even picking up a TB for a year or more. Once I tried my white one in the store on a strap, I bought it!
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IMHO, and I know this for a fact, that whole neckdive thing on TBirds was invented by a former CIA agent enlisted by F(i)ender. Just like Saddam's army tearing out Kuwait babies from their incubators, it never happened.
Uwe
PS: Yes, there are basses that are body-heavier, but if you regard a TBird as (too) neckheavy (not neckheavier than a Ric 4001/4003 I think which tend to go into horizontal mode too if you take your fretting arm off them) you should take up some other, more girlie recreation ... like playing guitar!
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"What neck dive? "
We all know it isn't true about 'Birds.......It's just a continuing myth that's constantly propagated on *other* (less well informed) forums. :D
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All this EB talk has sucked me in. I've put a bid in on an EB body. Don't think it's a Gibson, but it should fit that neck I got. Now to plan out the rest of the details.
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I haven't played that many TBirds, but I have noticed neck dive on some of them. Especially on two Bicentennials I've played. Not saying it's common but it does exist.
Never noticed a neck dive problem with Ricks I've owned, but they're still not well balanced. It's more of a weight distribution issue.
Weight isn't everything, if balance is good. The most uncomfortable bass I've owned was one of the lightest, my Fender Coronado II. Bad neck dive compounded by the "upper" strap knob located on the top of the neck heel. The neck rotated away as it dived.
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I've found that neckdive on Thunderbirds can be completely eliminated (for me) with a good quality wide leather strap and proper strap lock placement. 60's reverse birds and Blackbirds had the rear strap pin above the center line, with the Blackbird being quite a bit above it. Between that, a good strap, and the front strap pin at the heel you're set.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/gcarlston/auctions/Blackbird/small/01Blackbirdbody2.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/gcarlston/auctions/65%20Thunderbird%20II/small/65ThunderbirdII_body_back.jpg)
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I have this corn (is that a good word?) on my hand at the place where the '76er rests on my hand:) And I always push the body toward my body with my right hand if I want to play something fast, But I like that! it's nice to work a bit while playing bass.
I hate those suede straps, cos they pull at your shirt. I use a cheap one, which slides over my shoulder. Much better if you want to throw some R'nR shapes:)
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O, and for more Buzzard issues: Check 'Other Bass Brands.'
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I have this corn (is that a good word?) on my hand at the place where the '76er rests on my hand:) And I always push the body toward my body with my right hand if I want to play something fast, But I like that! it's nice to work a bit while playing bass.
I hate those suede straps, cos they pull at your shirt. I use a cheap one, which slides over my shoulder. Much better if you want to throw some R'nR shapes:)
He says the cutest things!........... :D
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Ow, you are in love, aren't you? ;D
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Me?.............. I'm just being coy with you ;)
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We posted at the same time:) We're made for eachother.
yeah, come on with those pics!
Here is one for you, I know you like black boots....... ;) And in a small effort to pester Uwe, my '89 with all the offensive black hardware removed and replaced with chromey goodness
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/Pic099.jpg)
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we have an official bank holiday in Holland, because of the Queens birthday. One big party throughout the country. it's called Queensday. Your picture makes my 2008 Queensday even better:)
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Here is one for you, I know you like black boots....... ;) And in a small effort to pester Uwe, my '89 with all the offensive black hardware removed and replaced with chromey goodness
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/Pic099.jpg)
Avoid that sun, please, Mark, I implore you. You live in Seattle where it doesn't shine and you're still starting to look a bit Native Americanish on that pic!!! All you now need it a fringed suede dress und you'll be the little Navaho Maiden going by the name of "Guilty Swallow" worshipping the mighty Thunderbird!
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51D4DWW500L._SS500_.jpg)
Uwe
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Mark I hate to say this to you but long hair on older women just aint right!
You need to go shorter to age a bit more gracefully!
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"Guilty Swallow" LMFAO
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A couple of my old band mates were previously in the remains of The Flock, whom Kansas idolized. These guys got to go backstage, and Kansas treated them like royalty.
Forgive me for coming to this thread late, and staying off topic, but is this The Flock that had the hit "Can't You See"? If it is, their bassist was awesome. He was the first guy I'd seen using all eight fingers, and on a Fireglo 4001, IIRC.
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And from reading what Uwe has to say, I'm pretty sure the SG-Z is the EB for me.
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These guys here?
http://flockrock.com/
Sure look and sound like a band old Kansas would feel inspired by. ;D
Never consciously heard them though "horn rock" appeals to me, I'm a Blood, Sweat & Tears diehard.
Uwe
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I hate those suede straps, cos they pull at your shirt. I use a cheap one, which slides over my shoulder. Much better if you want to throw some R'nR shapes:)
i agree with you 100000000% suede straps are the worst.a cheap nylon is the way to go.i'm always moving my bass up and down.if i let go of my SB450 it does dive,but i tend to play with two hands.
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And from reading what Uwe has to say, I'm pretty sure the SG-Z is the EB for me.
SG-RI you mean, right? Wouldn't wanna be caught here recommending the SG-Z :D which is a nice instrument except for one - however crucial - failing: skimpy bass output!!! Only by playing the "neck" (= actually more a secondary bridge pup, it's so far back!) pup in solo mode and blowing up your bass frequencies beyond belief over a large rig do you get anything approaching a full bass sound. Noteworthy only for being the one Gibson bass with a pau ferro fretboard (announcements said wenge initially, but they settled for the lighter hued stuff).
Uwe
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i agree with you 100000000% suede straps are the worst.a cheap nylon is the way to go.i'm always moving my bass up and down.if i let go of my SB450 it does dive,but i tend to play with two hands.
I like to wear my basses low and so does my former guitar player. The only straps which are long enough for my 6ft length (1.90m) are some F****r straps, some Get'm Get'm straps and especially those cheap nylon ones! I use one for both my SG-RI and T-bird.
My former guitar player needed a new one for his ES335. He went to a local shop and the only long enough strap was a black nylon one. He tried it out in the shop with a Heritage 335 model and the shopkeeper asked him which kind of semisolid he had: 'Epiphone? Ibanez?' My friend answered he had a real Gibson 335 and the shopkeeper almost wouldn't sell him this cheap strap;)
BTW: is this a topic about straps, indian woman, old women's hairdos, EB's, Buzzards, cross dressing or Kansas inspired bands? I dunno anymore;)
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also a low player myself,on my Sb450 i had to cut the adjuster and re-sew the strap to make it a little longer.so strap on a cross dressing buzzard from kansas.
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I find this thread refreshingly eclectic yet within the bounds of decorum as no one has mentioned WW II or anal sex yet. Needless to say Strapse is the German word for a certain type of lingerie ...
(http://www.lyngerie.de/shop/catalog/images/nylons_01_1021l.jpg)
Oh, I forgot how Guilty Swallow despises black hardware:
(http://www.dessous-xxl.com/images/product_images/popup_images/4056_0.jpg)
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Hmm.. I'm thinking about ordering the white set for the Fraulein, but I have to know if it's available in chrome!
WWII you said? What about it? ;)
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WWII you said? What about it? ;)
Nothing. An unimportant reallocation of bicycles due to wartime constraints. Now go celebrate with Beatrix.
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Yep, that Flock. Tom Webb was later known as T.S. Henry Webb aka The Barking Spider. He was a real trip. I've jammed with him in the past. The song I remember by them was "Clown" (I think). By the time I crossed paths with him (I did a full gig with him sitting in), he was a gravelly voiced harp player that had seen better days.
Fred Glickstein also went on to try the idea of a Jazz Wedding Orchestra in the late '80s. His claim to fame was the marketing of the home clone kit. "Be beside yourself with joy" "Be the first to be the second on your block"
The guys I knew were actually in a band called Strategic Air Command that had a few remnants out of The Flock, but none of the original members. Archie was the bassist, as I recall, but that's about it. Out of that band came a singer in one of my bands, and a guitarist in another.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EAESnMOIRw
Interesting: Bluegrass jig meets jazz horns over funk to heavy guitars and Dr. Hook type vocals!
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aka The Barking Spider
Wonder how he got that nickname?
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Wonder how he got that nickname?
I'd guess from excessive flatulence.
We haven't discussed flatulence yet in this thread.
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I'd guess from excessive flatulence.
We haven't discussed flatulence yet in this thread.
Now you did it
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/198290/farting_preacher_2/
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"
Avoid that sun, please, Mark, I implore you. You live in Seattle where it doesn't shine and you're still starting to look a bit Native Americanish on that pic!!! All you now need it a fringed suede dress und you'll be the little Navaho Maiden going by the name of "Guilty Swallow" worshipping the mighty Thunderbird!
I have no problem avoiding the sun here in Seattle......note my complete lack of tan lines! If my skin looks a little darker I'd say its that little bit of non German heritage (Italian) that I have, well that and the lighting..........K.T. Tunstall?! never heard of her! ;)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/Pic190.jpg)
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We have carnivorous arthopods. I don't think they bark, though.
What I want to know is if The Barking Spider was friends with The Burning Flame (http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=440.msg6831#msg6831)?
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So now you want to light the farts?
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(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/Pic190.jpg)
Nice Bass, Mark! Great pics too, BTW. ;)
As for the strap issue, I have a 4" wide leather strap I made in high school that's been a mainstay of mine ever since. The shortest I can get it makes the bass hang to my waist, but I can hang it Jimmy Page (or Steve Clark) style if I want to! Though as cool as that looks (to me anyway), my playing style dictates that I keep it at waist level or slightly lower. Any more than that and my neck and wrist let me know they don't like it pretty quickly!
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"Nice Bass, Mark! Great pics too, BTW."
George, that bass has a voice! it's THE PERFECT PLAYER! Beyond badass,and just the right amount of mojo to be cool. Its the one that always goes to every show.
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SG-RI you mean, right? Wouldn't wanna be caught here recommending the SG-Z :D which is a nice instrument except for one - however crucial - failing: skimpy bass output!!! Only by playing the "neck" (= actually more a secondary bridge pup, it's so far back!) pup in solo mode and blowing up your bass frequencies beyond belief over a large rig do you get anything approaching a full bass sound. Noteworthy only for being the one Gibson bass with a pau ferro fretboard (announcements said wenge initially, but they settled for the lighter hued stuff).
Uwe
I didn't say you recommended it, only that what you said made me like it. My tastes being slightly off the beaten path anyway. If the SG-RI were long scale it might be OK, but the SG-Z appeals to me because it is different. And I do have a big rig with 15's that even the Rick with the bridge pickup soloed sounds good.
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These guys here?
http://flockrock.com/
Sure look and sound like a band old Kansas would feel inspired by. ;D
Never consciously heard them though "horn rock" appeals to me, I'm a Blood, Sweat & Tears diehard.
Uwe
I doubt it. The Flock I am talking about was probably from the Midwest US, and had a hit (maybe local) in the late sixties "Can't You See" and I have not been able to find anything online about them. I would like an MP3 of that song, I only have a cassette recorded from vinyl.
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I doubt it. The Flock I am talking about was probably from the Midwest US, and had a hit (maybe local) in the late sixties "Can't You See" and I have not been able to find anything online about them. I would like an MP3 of that song, I only have a cassette recorded from vinyl.
The Flock in the link were from Chicago. It might still be them.
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Yep, that Flock. Tom Webb was later known as T.S. Henry Webb aka The Barking Spider. He was a real trip. I've jammed with him in the past. The song I remember by them was "Clown" (I think). By the time I crossed paths with him (I did a full gig with him sitting in), he was a gravelly voiced harp player that had seen better days.
Fred Glickstein also went on to try the idea of a Jazz Wedding Orchestra in the late '80s. His claim to fame was the marketing of the home clone kit. "Be beside yourself with joy" "Be the first to be the second on your block"
The guys I knew were actually in a band called Strategic Air Command that had a few remnants out of The Flock, but none of the original members. Archie was the bassist, as I recall, but that's about it. Out of that band came a singer in one of my bands, and a guitarist in another.
Cool, I saw them in Aurora, Illinois sometime in the late Sixties and was thoroughly impressed. I don't suppose there is a fan site, or any of their music floating around the internet.
BTW http://flockrock.com/ is so slow loading for me, but links to their music on Amazon. They must have gone through a transition after "Can't You See" by adding horns, but I do hear a similarity.
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They have them on Itunes