The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bass Amps & Effects => Topic started by: Aussie Mark on May 06, 2010, 10:22:28 PM
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In our Stones tribute we've been working on getting our backline to look and sound somewhat authentic, to add a little to the visual element of our shows. My chrome grill SWR cabs have far too much bling for our image :mrgreen: so I've bought some seventies silver/blue Ampeg grill cloth and am making some faux panels to pop on the front of the cabs to look more "vintage". And, I found a 100w all tube V4BH head at the right price locally, so I'll also be swapping out the black cloth on that as well for the silver/blue.
The V4BH only weighs 40lbs, so I don't have to go all caveman with an SVT and a fridge to get the look and sound that will go nicely with this band. I'm keen to see what a stack of 2 or 3 of my Goliath Jr cabs will look like with Ampeg cloth :o
That said, we're doing a show in 2 weeks time with the support of Universal Music to coincide with the release of the remastered Exile On Main Street, and the local Ampeg distributor is donating a backline of 3 x SVT VR heads and fridges for the show, so that might be fun too ;)
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Mark, if you're talking about the newer series V4, I think you might be very happy. I got a V4B Classic a few months back (which was later renamed V4BH but is the same thing), and I've been very impressed with it. I'm running it through an Ampeg 4X10 and a Goliath III 4X10 for a 4 OHM load and it sounds great.
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Sounds cool! V-4B heads rock. I have a '74. Tone city! But mine weighs 65 pounds. :-[ Kind of off topic, but I just tried an Orange bass terror - 2 pre-amp tubes, 500 watt class D power, 11 pounds - and it sounded VERY much like the vintage Ampeg. Total 1 trick pony, but it does what it does very well.
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Cool! We need pics!
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:-[ Kind of off topic, but I just tried an Orange bass terror - 2 pre-amp tubes, 500 watt class D power, 11 pounds - and it sounded VERY much like the vintage Ampeg. Total 1 trick pony, but it does what it does very well.
Hey Tom, I tried it too. The sound is very much like the AD200.
But I was really disappointed by the absolute lack of dynamics. The Terror Bass didn't respond at all to any difference I made on my bass. It didn't seem to matter if a fondled the strings or hit them really hard.
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Thanks guys, yes it's one of the newer "blackface" series, from around 2006/7. No pics, as it hasn't arrived yet, but here's a pic of the same model that I found via Google ....
(http://kateoncrack.com/media/img/Ampeg%20V-4BH.jpg)
40lbs was the clincher for me, as there's no way I want a 60-80lb tube head.
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The Orange amps of yore used a Baxandall tone circuit, like the old Ampegs. Likewise, if you switch your V4 over to EL34s, it starts to sound like an old Orange. Yeah them original V4s are pretty hefty, but you won't get all that power and tone without all that iron.
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i had an original v4b i bought new. i remember carrying it on a city bus. no mas.
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I wanted to buy the newer V4B a couple of years ago, but it was just discontinued. So I saved some more money and I went for the Orange. Great amp, sold it for the similar sounding Ampeg. But I like the sound of the new V4B.
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I own an Ampeg V4B from 1972.
It's my favorite amp for recording.
But for gigs it the 100 watts aren't enough power to keep up with the band.
Ampeg should have made an amp between the 100 watt V4B and the 300 watt SVT (which is too heavy for my hernia)
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A Hiwatt DR201 fits that bill nicely...not an Ampeg though.
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I like Ampeg. Played with a tube-SVT on a festival last week. But I like the mid-ish amps like a Hiwatt and Orange more. So my DR201 is perfect:)
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It's here. Now to give her a workout at rehearsal tomorrow night!
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/mdeayton/Miscellaneous%20Stuff/v4bh.jpg)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/mdeayton/Miscellaneous%20Stuff/bottles.jpg)
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Cool!!
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Nice score! Run mine through an SVT-215 for a "B15 on Steroids" sound
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Nice score! Run mine through an SVT-215 for a "B15 on Steroids" sound
This would be a great hook up for my taste ;D. No knock on the 4 10'' cabs that most tend to prefer, because they sound great too. I just really appreciate a nice 2 15" cab, and like you said, "B15 on steroids" sound.
Rick
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I played the VB4H through a pair of 8 ohm SWR Goliath Jrs at rehearsal last night, and 100 watts of Ampeg tube amp was more than adequate up against 2 long haired guitarists, keyboards and sax (plus our light hitting "Charlie Watts"). With the gain on "6" and the master on "4" I had plenty up my sleeve. This one is a keeper!
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I'm not familiar with the new V4 but I've got a bit of playing time in on the old 65 pounder and I'll testify that Ampeg used some pretty large watts when they built that head. A lot of players walk away when they read the specs, thinking 100 watts won't be enough juice to fill the room. I've used them in some pretty good sized rooms and outdoors and always had plenty of power. Unless you're playing somewhere very big and very loud , that 100 watts will get the job done ;D. The old V4 and the Sunn 200S are two of my favorites. In all but a really huge room, when you start winding them up you get the nicest warm and pushy tube sound you can get and plenty of juice to give some authority to every note. I like 'em ;D.
Rick
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i had an original V-4B back in 1976 with the 2 15" altecs and it rocked. later upgraded that to a svt with that 2 15" cab and a 8 10" svt cab and it moved buildings..... My V4B lasted forever... Sold it in mid 90's wish i still had it although it weighed a ton but less than the SVT. I don't know the new ones well but the old one had a quasi shock absorber that allowed the head to get moved and bounced while the inside stayed safe. I gree withrahock. the v4b was was rated at 100watts but it sounded and played like it was way over that. Blew away a 200 watt sound city head i used as a backup.
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No idea about the new model, but IME the old V4B could not keep up with two loud guitarists and a loud drummer in a moderate sized club.
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A lot of the comments regarding relative volume underscore a couple of things:
First, different people and musical styles have different acceptable levels of distortion, and second, the actual power AND volume (which may or may not necessarily be related) varied according to the condition of the amp and the settings on its output tubes and their quality. Old tube amps generally ran at least 10-20% variations in performance straight off the production line. Parts tolerances were much wider and amps were set up for maximum longevity, not volume. If you had an old V4 with a crap set of tubes or one that was biased fairly cold, you'd never know what its true output potential could be. When I first got my Aguilar DB728, it was biased so cold it couldn't even reach its rated output power. I fixed that REAL quick.
That said, I agree entirely with Dave about the V4's limitations. With a loud rock band, it's SVT time ulness you like grind with not much bottom.
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My V4 experiences were playing against stuff like Fender Twin , Fender DeVille, Fender M80, Roland Jazz Chorus-120 and a few other things in that range.
It held up very well and delivered a lot of bottom for a mere 100 watts, in that type of environment and coming through a 2 15" cab. I never had to compete with any real heavy artillery but I think they stand pretty tall for a 100 watts 8)
Rick
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When my 3-Pros were in the shop last year I ran my V4BH & 2x15 alongside a Portaflex head pushing a 412. I really didn't need the Portaflex set up - it was really more just for show and to add just a little bit of extra flavor. But I was competing with a 5150 and a Marshall, and the V4BH kept up just fine. I usually dialed mine in pretty deep and thumpy so I wasn't competing for the same sonic real estate that the guitars were operating in, no matter how "loud" they got. That could have helped me out as well.
(http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/jj401/stiles72/Ampeg%20Portaflex%201962/portaflex-bastard001.jpg)
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Cool rig! Is that a Gene Simmons 215?
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Yep - it's an SVT-LGS 215 with the JBL speakers
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A lot of the comments regarding relative volume underscore a couple of things:
First, different people and musical styles have different acceptable levels of distortion, and second, the actual power AND volume (which may or may not necessarily be related) varied according to the condition of the amp and the settings on its output tubes and their quality.
Don't forget cabinet efficiency. My SWR cabs have a sensitivity of 105dB, which I imagine is streets ahead of 2x15 cabs and others from the 1970s. This translates into more volume as well.
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Don't forget cabinet efficiency. My SWR cabs have a sensitivity of 105dB, which I imagine is streets ahead of 2x15 cabs and others from the 1970s. This translates into more volume as well.
SWRs loaded with 10s are louder than average. OTOH I'm always leery of published sensitivity figures. They seem to be taken at 1khz, if the frequency is shown at all. At under 100hz the story may be very different.
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Don't forget cabinet efficiency. My SWR cabs have a sensitivity of 105dB, which I imagine is streets ahead of 2x15 cabs and others from the 1970s. This translates into more volume as well.
Actually most 2x15's from the 70's, and especially the V4B 2x15, would probably kill most modern 10" cabs in terms of efficiency. Where modern speakers win out is in power handling and excursion, since they are designed to be installed in ported cabinets from the ground up. There's a lot of fuss made over efficiency specs, which, like 'peak power handling,' is generally a spec so finely made, it's damn near a lie. What a cab does at 1kHz, where the spec is most often measured, is as Dave says, meaningless to bass players.
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It doesn't take a lot of power to get a pair of old Altec 15" speakers moving. That's what I used for decades. If you start pushing much over 200 watts through them they're going to start blowing. I blew the the top speaker in my old Ampeg more times than I can even remember. People tend to forget the differences between the old the new when they start mixing some of the vintage heads with newer cabs and visa versa.
I've seen people take a vintage Showman and match it with a modern cab with stiff speakers rated for 500 plus watts and then wonder why it doesn't sound like the Showmans they heard in the old days. Real simple, the old ones were loaded with a lower rated speakers that moved a lot with very little power, like an Altec or JBL. That really helps make that low powered Showman head sound a whole lot bigger.
Rick
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i liked 2x15 cabs as well. so much in fact that i ran three at once. they were peavy's but they sounded good and at a ridiculous price. my experience with a borrowed showman cab was that this was the heaviest cab i have ever moved. even compared to my svt 8x10.
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If you start pushing much over 200 watts through them they're going to start blowing. I blew the the top speaker in my old Ampeg more times than I can even remember.
Me too! I finally got tired of re-coning the JBL D140s and switched to EVM15Ls. LOVE those speakers!
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Actually most 2x15's from the 70's, and especially the V4B 2x15, would probably kill most modern 10" cabs in terms of efficiency. Where modern speakers win out is in power handling and excursion, since they are designed to be installed in ported cabinets from the ground up. There's a lot of fuss made over efficiency specs, which, like 'peak power handling,' is generally a spec so finely made, it's damn near a lie. What a cab does at 1kHz, where the spec is most often measured, is as Dave says, meaningless to bass players.
Look, I'm sure your are correct, I'm not going to argue.
I'm just trying to understand why people are saying that 100 tube watts is not loud enough. My experience with this head is the opposite. I have plenty up my sleeve playing through a pair of 2x10 cabs with a 7 piece band (including 2 guitars, keys, sax), with the guitarist right next to me playing a cranked Super Twin (180w). It's all good :-)
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Mark, I can't argue about what works for you. I just know what didn't work for me.
If 100 watt tube heads worked for everyone, the SVT wouldn't be iconic.