The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bill's Shop: Projects, Mods & Repairs => Topic started by: godofthunder on February 12, 2014, 08:17:07 PM
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I have owned my '65-'66 Hofner 500/1 since 1972. It left my possession for about 9 years but I was able to buy it back in '86. When I bought it way back in '72 I didn't notice the neck had been poorly reset and is off about 3 degrees, angled toward the body. I had been hoping that time would loosen up the neck and I could take care of it myself but it is stubbornly steadfast. Today I took the bass into Bernie Lehman a well renowned local luthier and I hope to have the bass back as good as new in about ten days. I am very excited to have this put right, I'll keep you posted.
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Cool. Bernie's a great guy, it should come out fantastic!
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He is a super guy, took lots of time with me and the bass, showed me around his shop, what a cool space! He has a excellent reputation in Rochester defiantly the go to guy. In all these years I have never had the need to have him do anything. it was fun chating with a craftsman of like mind.
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I had him do a couple fret jobs on basses I couldn't get to cooperate. Great work and really nice guy.
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Make sure he uses hide glue. These neck joints are like violin family neck joints.
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I'll ask what he is going to use but I believe hide glue is a big contributing factor with early Hofner neck joint failures. I think a modern glue like Franklin's Tite Bond is a much better choice.
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That's cool it'll be back in action.
Always wanted one of these.
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I'll ask what he is going to use but I believe hide glue is a big contributing factor with early Hofner neck joint failures. I think a modern glue like Franklin's Tite Bond is a much better choice.
Hide glue is what enables the neck reset. You warm it up and it melts and the neck is off the bass, clean and simple. Then the planes are smoothed and the angle determined, and then it's re-glued.
Using Tite Bond is like using super-glue instead of the 4 bolts in a Fender: it will hold, but you will never detach the neck again without major surgery.
Hofner glued-in necks were designed to be held in place with hide glue. And yes, they may need a neck reset every decade or two, just like Fenders need shimming once in a while. I've seen the damage done when other glues are used in Hofner neck joints. It's a lot of work when it's time for the next neck reset. It's still doable, but costs more to repair.
Hide glue isn't weaker than other glues. It just melts easily when warm, to allow easy and clean neck removal. Hide glue is what holds upright bass necks in place, and the string pull there is more than double the pull on a bass guitar.
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Hide glue is what enables the neck reset. You warm it up and it melts and the neck is off the bass, clean and simple. Then the planes are smoothed and the angle determined, and then it's re-glued.
Using Tite Bond is like using super-glue instead of the 4 bolts in a Fender: it will hold, but you will never detach the neck again without major surgery.
Hofner glued-in necks were designed to be held in place with hide glue. And yes, they may need a neck reset every decade or two, just like Fenders need shimming once in a while. I've seen the damage done when other glues are used in Hofner neck joints. It's a lot of work when it's time for the next neck reset. It's still doable, but costs more to repair.
Hide glue isn't weaker than other glues. It just melts easily when warm, to allow easy and clean neck removal. Hide glue is what holds upright bass necks in place, and the string pull there is more than double the pull on a bass guitar.
I agree with everything you say Ilan. The problem is finding a luthier who is proficient in the use of hide glue and uses it regularly. IMO there's no need to change something that has worked perfectly when used by a qualified tech for over 300 years.
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The problem is finding a luthier who is proficient in the use of hide glue and uses it regularly.
Any violin maker will do it, and you can be very specific about the required neck angle.
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Does Hofner still use hide glue?
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Does Hofner still use hide glue?
Good question. I'd bet they do. Just guessing! :P
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Check this out at around 12:35 on the video. Looks like hide glue!
http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=6511.msg104224#msg104224
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You beat me to it by seconds! I was about to post the same video and same time code!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCOycca1ezo&t=12m33s
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Huh? I am more than perplexed by this and I'm not doubting yours or Hofners wisdom but why would you use a glue that will possibly fail? Why not use something that won't make neck resets necessary? I knew Hofner used hide glue in the past but i am shocked they use it still. My head is reeling :o
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Huh? I am more than perplexed by this and I'm not doubting yours or Hofners wisdom but why would you use a glue that will possibly fail? Why not use something that won't make neck resets necessary? I knew Hofner used hide glue in the past but i am shocked they use it still. My head is reeling :o
Because of the nature of hollow bodied instruments they will eventually need a neck reset. It's basically maintenance and has nothing to do with the glue failing if the joint was properly cut. The tension of the strings eventually deforms the wood changing the neck angle.
http://guitarless.com/2010/07/why-does-my-acoustic-need-a-neck-reset/
I'm sure there's a lot more info on other sites.
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Hide glue, if you use it correctly, is very strong.
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I got the bass back yesterday and I am quite pleased, Bernie did his research and did use hide glue. With the neck at the proper angle it feels and sounds great! It wasn't cheap in the end it cost me $313.00 and change :o I'm glad I had it done it needed doing for a very long time. If I could have gotten it apart I could have done it myself. My only complaint is that the touch up work is a little crude............ I can fix that no problem. Unlike me not to complain but Bernie was such a nice guy and so proud of his work I didn't have the heart. Pictures later today.
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I've chatted with Bernie a couple times while in his shop and he mentioned that he loves building but isn't crazy about finishing things as it's not a strength of his. We all have our gifts!
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Pictures. :) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/Hofnerneckreset010_zpsc4f8ca6a.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/Hofnerneckreset002_zps19f64870.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/Hofnerneckreset004_zps7c127214.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/Hofnerneckreset005_zpse6673734.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/Hofnerneckreset006_zpsad8e76a5.jpg)
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Sorry about the top picture I rotated it but it still copies upside down. Huh? It fixed itself.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/Hofnerneckreset006_zpsad8e76a5.jpg)
Well, that particular shot does look like the glue was applied with a caulking gun. But...I imagine it won't be hard to clean up.
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Thats not glue that's a touch up where some finish had chipped.
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Thats not glue that's a touch up where some finish had chipped.
EEK!! But if you have the finishing skills of Dr. Bassman, I predict a very pleasing outcome. That looks like something you can fix.
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Like I said I was a bit surprised how amateurish the touch up is but i couldn't bring myself to bitch mainly because I can do a much better job myself. Not like me at all, I must be mellowing in my old age....................not sure how I feel about that.
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A little sanding would help for starters! I'm sure you'll fix her up as good as new. The reset looks great.
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That is a little shocking and know you are probably a little perplexed? Will require a little refining in that area. Some years ago when I had my 500/5 neck reset (with hide glue of course) the guitar luthier told me that it was a job better suited forma violin/ cello/ bass maker/ luthier for exactly the reasons mentioned and pictured. As you know Hofner redesigned their neck bass & pocket in the mid 90's. Some are still holding up since the 60's but only a matter of time. You might look up a local violin/ bass luthier for the slight refin. Good luck, at least it still has that lovely Hofner sound and feel!
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I'm glad to hear that you had it done with hide glue. That picture of the heel is exactly why I wouldn't do a neck reset on any guitars other than my own. It's a tricky job and there's always a bit of touchup to be done no matter how careful you are.
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I don't think the price is unreasonable for a neck reset but it's shocking that he would allow it to leave his shop looking like that.
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As Bill said, I'm thinking that some judicious progressive-grit sanding and polishing will fix it up.
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As Bill said, I'm thinking that some judicious progressive-grit sanding and polishing will fix it up.
I disagree (big surprise, right?). The correct procedure would have been a drop fill after the reset. It might still be the way after carefully chipping out the poor initial job by the repairman. I hesitate to call him a luthier after that botched attempt.
I do understand about not saying anything, Scott. You realize the job is so far from being correct that nothing you could say would be helpful. Look forward to seeing how you approach it!
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That is my plan to drop fill it then level it out. I'm in no hurry going to think on it a bit. The neck was in there tight I certainly expected some touch up, the old axiom you have to break a few eggs to make a omelet applies. I tried to get it apart and couldn't............there isn't much I can't get apart. I'm still kinda bumming 300 bucks is a lot of dough not to be satisfied.
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That is my plan to drop fill it then level it out. I'm in no hurry going to think on it a bit. The neck was in there tight I certainly expected some touch up, the old axiom you have to break a few eggs to make a omelet applies. I tried to get it apart and couldn't............there isn't much I can't get apart. I'm still kinda bumming 300 bucks is a lot of dough not to be satisfied.
Live and learn! Probably would have been better to take it to a violin guy as copacetic said. It's not unusual to score the lacquer at the neck/body lines as the first step of neck removal to minimize chipping.
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That's the first thing I did when I attempted to get it apart was to score the joint.
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Yeah, I'd be disappointed too. $300 isn't chump change. You could take it back to him, it's not an unreasonable thing to do in this case.
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I could take it back and I sure thought about it. I am afraid I'll end up with a bigger mess.
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I could take it back and I sure thought about it. I am afraid I'll end up with a bigger mess.
That's kind of what I was thinking.
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Well, if he couldn't do any better, you'd think he'd know someone who could. I thought he had a partner there in the shop. Anyway, he owes you IMHO.
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I have been thinking about this for a couple of weeks now. I called Bernie and expressed my disappointment in the touch up work and he said to bring it in. As I said before I am worried he will just make it worse. I am on the fence if I should take it in or just deal with it myself.
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If it came home that way, why should you expect a second go-around to be any different? That neck finish wasn't a mistake; it was pure sloppiness. Fix it yourself.
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Yeah I suppose your right.
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I agree with Andrew. Then, when you're done, take it back to the guy. Maybe he'll subcontract you for his finish work.
I'd like to know how much of your $300+ went toward that touchup. ;D
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Fix it yourself, write up a bill, take it down to Bernie and ask him to reimburse you.
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Seriously this is why I try to do my own work. Given his reputation I never expected this sort of result. I'll fix it myself and take my lumps. I haven't got the time or inclination to go beat up on Bernie for 50-100 bucks.
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OK, mail him the bill with a picture of the repair! :P
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I agree with Andrew. Then, when you're done, take it back to the guy. Maybe he'll subcontract you for his finish work.
I'd like to know how much of your $300+ went toward that touchup. ;D
excellent idea! turn a negative into a positive