Fang

[Dave W]

Phil (Fang) Volk in action this past September in Portland. Half talk, half playing. Good to see he's still around.

[Pilgrim]

Man, I wish there was more low end in that recording.  I loved PR & The Raiders, and Kicks was a huge hit.  They were a really big band before the Beatles turned popular music in a different direction.  I remember seeing Paul with the band in Tahoe in the 90s.  Fun show!

[Dave W]

Man, I wish there was more low end in that recording.  I loved PR & The Raiders, and Kicks was a huge hit.  They were a really big band before the Beatles turned popular music in a different direction.  I remember seeing Paul with the band in Tahoe in the 90s.  Fun show!

You know, and I know how big they were. People have forgotten. Their music always stirs some pleasant memories.

The Great Airplane Strike. Ray Bolger (!) hosting.

[westen44]

They were a unique band with some good songs. 

[Pilgrim]

I can remember many of my favorites easily...

Kicks
Great Airplane Strike
The Ballad of Paul Revere
Hungry
Good Thing
Louie, Louie (their version)
Louis Go Home
Melody for an Unknown Girl

Although Indian Reservation was their #2 hit, I was never a huge fan of it.  I thought it rather exploitative.

[Dave W]

My favorites were Steppin' Out and The Great Airplane Strike.

I didn't care for Indian Reservation. The original title was The Lament of the Cherokee Reservation Indian, written and originally sung by John D. Loudermilk. He was a talented songwriter but I agree, the song was exploitative.

[Pilgrim]

I forgot about Steppin' Out!  That was a great tune that rocked nicely.

[uwe]

Exploi...wot?!



Seriously, ignoring the above late 70ies German remake (that perhaps in this particular performance didn't just exploit Native American culture), what was exploitative about the Raiders version? Is it exploitative if non-Native Americans take up the real ethnicity's historic plight and sing a song about it? Can you then not be a credible advocate for a good cause even if it has turned popular?

I've read that even Redbone were supposed to be exploitative, overplaying their Native American DNA as opposed to their Mexican heritage ...



- onlly drummer Pete „Last Walking Bear“ DePoe was a 100% Native American, a member of the Makah Tribe. I believe that is taking things a bit far or is this exploitation too?



The 60ies and early 70ies saw a (belated) noticeable cultural shift in the popular depiction of Native Americans, all of the sudden "Injuns" were no longer portrayed as always evil, we learned that scalping was a white man's idea after all and the (at least positive) likewise clichée of the "noble savage" in harmony with nature appeared. And of course the allegory to what was happening in Vietnam played a role too.



But if hopping on that train of thought is exploitation, then I've seen worse forms of it.

I like Robbie Robertson's collaborations with Native American musicians - I don't remember his Native American DNA ever being mentioned, much less flaunted when he was leading The Band in the 60ies and 70ies, but I wouldn't hold that against him. You're free to rediscover your origins.

[Dave W]

^^^

The song was controversial from the beginning, and Loudermilk didn't help matters. Read the Lyrics section on Wikipedia.

[Pilgrim]

Uwe said "Seriously, ignoring the above late 70ies German remake (that perhaps in this particular performance didn't just exploit Native American culture), what was exploitative about the Raiders version? Is it exploitative if non-Native Americans take up the real ethnicity's historic plight and sing a song about it? Can you then not be a credible advocate for a good cause even if it has turned popular?"

I struggle with this.  I think the recent accusations of "appropriation" when (for instance) a white kid wears a nice Chinese-styled dress are ridiculous.  I do think it's a positive thing when whites recognize other cultures, enjoy the positive aspects of those cultures, and especially when they speak out on behalf of those cultures.  Yes, I think they can be credible in that role.

But Revere and the Raiders were visibly white (and Revere looked like he just got off a ship from Norway), and although Mark Lindsay was later said to be part Native American, he was not known to be, nor was he visibly a part of that heritage.  It's also a bit presumptive when a visually all-white band sings "they put us" on the reservation, taking on the role personally.  So although I appreciated the message of the song, I was never entirely comfortable with the way it was delivered.

It's also interesting that according to the Wikipedia page Dave referenced, the Raiders actually didn't play that recording, it was Lindsay with Wrecking Crews musicians.  If that's true, I'm not sure why it was released as a Raiders cut and Revere publicized it - unless the money flowed through the Raiders even without their involvement.

[uwe]

Seems like Herr Loudermilk was also a loudmouth - file under poetic license.

I always liked the song, both the lyrics and the minorish chord progressions. Perhaps because it reminded me of this here (I heard the Slade number first and "Indian Reservation" only much later in the disco version before I found out about the Raiders version)



though in reality Slade were probably the ones inspired by "Indian Reservation" when they wrote their "Coz I Luv You". Or perhaps they had heard the Fardon version (which I didn't know until now either), because it had been a hit in the UK.

[uwe]

Uwe said "Seriously, ignoring the above late 70ies German remake (that perhaps in this particular performance didn't just exploit Native American culture), what was exploitative about the Raiders version? Is it exploitative if non-Native Americans take up the real ethnicity's historic plight and sing a song about it? Can you then not be a credible advocate for a good cause even if it has turned popular?"

I struggle with this.  I think the recent accusations of "appropriation" when (for instance) a white kid wears a nice Chinese-styled dress are ridiculous.  I do think it's a positive thing when whites recognize other cultures, enjoy the positive aspects of those cultures, and especially when they speak out on behalf of those cultures.  Yes, I think they can be credible in that role.

But Revere and the Raiders were visibly white (and Revere looked like he just got off a ship from Norway), and although Mark Lindsay was later said to be part Native American, he was not known to be, nor was he visibly a part of that heritage.  It's also a bit presumptive when a visually all-white band sings "they put us" on the reservation, taking on the role personally. So although I appreciated the message of the song, I was never entirely comfortable with the way it was delivered.


It's also interesting that according to the Wikipedia page Dave referenced, the Raiders actually didn't play that recording, it was Lindsay with Wrecking Crews musicians.  If that's true, I'm not sure why it was released as a Raiders cut and Revere publicized it - unless the money flowed through the Raiders even without their involvement.

I hear you. Paul Revere & the Raiders weren't perhaps the best vehicle to transport socially conscious lyrics. I don't think that you have to have Native American DNA to credibly sing about injustice towards Native Americans (and to their credit: I'm not aware that the Raiders dressed up as "Indians" when they performed that song - that would have been no doubt exploitative), but as always musical and lyrical integrity helps.

So even if Cher ever had traces of Cherokee DNA in her (which she today says she has never claimed) and Half-Breed is a good tune and lyric, her donning a Lakota Sioux headdress (as imagined in a Las Vegas show!  ) to impersonate a Cherokee woman (Cherokees never wore headdresses) is exploitative.



But then she's Cher, she can do what she likes and very often did!  She always made her own rules. 


I always found that Iron Maiden ruined what ever good intentions they might have lyrically had with that awful video here citing the exploitative silent movie footage:



I know they were trying to be comical and tongue in cheek, but here it was an ill match.

[morrow]

[uwe]

There is so many things wrong with Tommy's version of Apache, exploitation worries me the least.

And as a kraut kid growing up in the 60ies you of course had Winnetou as the role model of a noble Apache chief.







By today's standards, that was exploitative as hell: the Apache chief was played by Pierre Brice, a Frenchman, his buddy Old Shatterhand saw Lex Barker resurrected, the Apache women (regularly murdered by white men after Gold, God & Glory) were likewise French actresses ...



or even German ones ...



... the movie series was filmed in Yugoslavia and based on an immensely popular series of adventure books by German 19th century author Karl May (who had never been to the US or met a Native American when he wrote those books).

And yet ... to this day Wie Winnetou! ("Just like Winnetou!") is in Germany an accolade for selfless, highly ethical behavior.

After that series (a stunning 11 full-length movies from 1962 to 1968), it was basically impossible to depict Native Americans as villains or savages in German films ever again.

[uwe]

And you thought they only ripped off Led Zep:

https://www.loudersound.com/news/greta-van-fleets-josh-kizska-apologises-for-cultural-appropriation-of-indigenous-culture