The Last Bass Outpost

Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: morrow on July 25, 2022, 09:35:17 AM

Title: SG
Post by: morrow on July 25, 2022, 09:35:17 AM
I know it’s just a bog standard SG bass , but I really enjoy it .
And with the treble turned down and the neck pickup solo it does have a deep rich whomp . I bounce between that and running both .
Now someday I would love to find an EB3 for the right price , but this is fun .

(https://i.postimg.cc/05XbmhPJ/0-FF09094-D31-C-4-B99-AEBC-20-D2-BF02-ECDE.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: SG
Post by: uwe on July 25, 2022, 09:46:22 AM
Not wishing to cause strife, but this bass beats an EB-3 in every respect.

Not just because the bridge is so much better.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: amptech on July 26, 2022, 12:11:37 AM
Not wishing to cause strife,
Yeah right :mrgreen:
Title: Re: SG
Post by: uwe on July 26, 2022, 05:39:58 AM
Come on, we all know that the EB-3 is by its very nature a limited instrument. There is more stuff you cannot do with it than there is stuff you can. An SG Bass, in contrast, is not Mr or Mrs Versatile, but offers at least some flexibility. And to a regular audience, you can fake-mud with it well enough.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: gearHed289 on July 26, 2022, 07:08:11 AM
I like the modern SG basses, especially with the trapezoid inlays. They look great.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: Alanko on July 26, 2022, 09:01:40 AM
And to a regular audience, you can fake-mud with it well enough.

A prerequisite when gigging in some of the more underground venues in Germany I gather?
Title: Re: SG
Post by: morrow on July 26, 2022, 09:38:39 AM
The neck pickup has a lovely whomp with the treble rolled off .
Title: Re: SG
Post by: Dave W on July 26, 2022, 12:57:28 PM
Who needs a bridge pickup, anyway?  :vader:
Title: Re: SG
Post by: westen44 on July 26, 2022, 01:20:06 PM
I like the modern SG basses, especially with the trapezoid inlays. They look great.

I agree.  In general, I prefer dot inlays.  But when I finally got an SG Standard, I was surprised how much I liked the trapezoid inlays on that  particular bass. 
Title: Re: SG
Post by: uwe on July 26, 2022, 08:28:39 PM
Who needs a bridge pickup, anyway?  :vader:

That and stringholders with the generally superior two point bridge, just get rid of it all, let it swing!
Title: Re: SG
Post by: ilan on July 26, 2022, 09:44:48 PM
Not wishing to cause strife, but this bass beats an EB-3 in every respect.

The pre-'72 EB-0/3 is a wonderful bass that shines once you swap out the mud for a good single coil.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: amptech on July 26, 2022, 10:05:07 PM
The pre-'72 EB-0/3 is a wonderful bass that shines once you swapt the mud for a good single coil.
Pre' 72 EB basses are wonderful. They do need electronics tweaking to sound great. Single coil works, shorting out one of the mud coils work too. I like to wind down the mudbucker and wind a hotter bridge humbucker. Ditch the vari tone and you're ready to go, great sounding and just wonderful playing instruments that weighs practically nothing.

SG's are fine basses too, by all means - but very different except the body shape.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: uwe on July 27, 2022, 07:36:57 AM
Yeah, sure, after you chuck away half of the entrails, the bass sounds indeed better. Is that your definition of a "wonderful bass"?  8)

Last I heard, the Fender P just "worked" straight out of the box, no modifications needed.

Did I just really write that or was my hand forced? Has my account been hijacked?



PS: Actually, the 1972-onward EB-3 basses are the more versatile models ...
Title: Re: SG
Post by: TBird1958 on July 27, 2022, 09:01:01 AM
Yeah, sure, after you chuck away half of the entrails, the bass sounds indeed better. Is that your definition of a "wonderful bass"?  8)

Last I heard, the Fender P just "worked" straight out of the box, no modifications needed.

Did I just really write that or was my hand forced? Has my account been hijacked?



PS: Actually, the 1972-onward EB-3 basses are the more versatile models ...
   



 I've been thinking about getting an EB-3..............You're killin' it for me.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: uwe on July 27, 2022, 09:49:06 AM
You have so many good basses, you can use something a little cultish. That's what it is, a cult instrument.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: ilan on July 27, 2022, 10:30:59 AM
You have so many good basses, you can use something a little cultish. That's what it is, a cult instrument.

I also shunt pre-85 Ric bass capacitors and remove mute pads from Fender bridge covers and ashtrays from Telecasters, you know. If something sucks the life out of a bass, I'll remove it. And this includes high-mass bridges by the way.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: morrow on July 27, 2022, 11:34:56 AM
   



 I've been thinking about getting an EB-3..............You're killin' it for me.

Look at the DC Jr . They’re great little short scales .
Title: Re: SG
Post by: Chris P. on July 27, 2022, 02:29:26 PM
My '76 EB3 (which I sold) only sounded good through a tube amp and a 4x12. My SG Bass sounds good in any amp, I recorded an album with it and you can go from Fender-ish tones on the bridge pickup to width and warmth on the neck. Great basses!
Title: Re: SG
Post by: Dave W on July 28, 2022, 12:18:01 AM
That and stringholders with the generally superior two point bridge, just get rid of it all, let it swing!

Glad you agree with me.  :mrgreen:

It's said to be a one-trick pony as if there's something wrong with that. There's not. I don't need it to sound like a Fender, Ric or MusicMan.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: amptech on July 28, 2022, 02:10:14 AM
   



 I've been thinking about getting an EB-3..............You're killin' it for me.
Don't let him🙂 It's a wonderful experience once you dare try it out 8). Can't see why tinkering with the electronics is unholy either, I'm sure T bird owners have a specific pickup they like. Or dare I say, even replace the bridge?

And as for P basses out of box; I recently sold my '74 ash boatanchor after realizing that any new squier P sounded and played better. I thought for years that it was just weight and playability that made me lose interest, until I installed the original pickups in a china P and they suddenly sounded good. On the other hand, any pre '72 EB' s I have had have been in the same ballpark tone wise. It does have a lot of character, but you easily fall in love with it. At least I did🙂. I don't need a lot of ponies either, the one I have sounds great!
Title: Re: SG
Post by: ilan on July 28, 2022, 03:34:26 AM
I like the modern SG basses, especially with the trapezoid inlays. They look great.

There's one currently in the Mod Collection with neck binding and Babicz for $1,399

https://www.gibson.com/en-US/Guitar/DMOZJR390/SG-Standard-Bass/Ebony

(https://static.gibson.com/product-images/Demo/DMOZJR390/Ebony/RAM018546-1.png)
Title: Re: SG
Post by: morrow on July 28, 2022, 05:03:08 AM
Whoa !
Title: Re: SG
Post by: uwe on July 28, 2022, 06:45:44 AM
Neck binding does not influence sound.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: uwe on July 28, 2022, 06:53:35 AM
My '76 EB3 (which I sold) only sounded good through a tube amp and a 4x12. My SG Bass sounds good in any amp, I recorded an album with it and you can go from Fender-ish tones on the bridge pickup to width and warmth on the neck. Great basses!

While not really versatile, in comparison to an EB-3 the SG Bass actually is.

Do the "Uwe's time machine gear test": Travel back in time and offer Jack Bruce in 1967 in the studio an SG Bass as replacement for his EB-3, you really think he would have hesitated after having played the SG Bass and if only for a second?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umj0gu5nEGs
Title: Re: SG
Post by: 4stringer77 on July 28, 2022, 07:21:27 AM
Jack would have said the Cherry finish doesn't look as good or age as well without the Aniline dye, he prefers the lighter weight and prettier wood grain of the true Honduran Mahogany, the Brazilian rosewood board looks nicer, the Alnico bridge pickup sounds more organic and overdrives his Marshalls better, the mudbucker actually pairs well with the bridge pickup in Varitone position 3 with the neck pickup turned down slightly, the feel of the reverse gear tuners and wide spacing controls are better and of course that the lighter bar bridge absorbs less string energy and therefore is superior to either the three point or whatever high mass bridge an SG bass could have.  :P
Title: Re: SG
Post by: uwe on July 28, 2022, 09:33:16 AM
You wish!  :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

He would have fallen to his knees and asked which one of his nuts - left or right - he could sacrifice for that TB Plus sound which would have driven his Marshalls mighty fine!  :P :P

Jack despised high mass bridges so much, he used this thing on his EB-1, ze Königstiger Panzer of German bass bridges:

(https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--WP5zc-y1--/c_crop,h_0.750,w_1.000,x_0.000,y_0.212/f_auto,t_large/v1642180854/rzsdjrkjepcl8wtwuwau.jpg)

(https://img.welt.de/img/geschichte/zweiter-weltkrieg/mobile129869622/9222509407-ci102l-w1024/Propagadaaufnahme-mit-Koenigstigern.jpg)

Title: Re: SG
Post by: 4stringer77 on July 28, 2022, 10:26:07 AM
Ha ha, that's a good point Uwe. I'd give one of my nuts for that discontinued Schaller bridge too. Still haven't found a replacement for the now concave bridge on my EB-1. Guess a hipshot could work since I've seen other EB-1's with them but the idea of a flat back full contact bridge on a carved top makes me shudder.
Is that your bridge by the way? I'll pay you dollars for it, they're almost as good as euros now you know.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: amptech on July 28, 2022, 12:35:53 PM
Ha ha, that's a good point Uwe. I'd give one of my nuts for that discontinued Schaller bridge too. Still haven't found a replacement for the now concave bridge on my EB-1. Guess a hipshot could work since I've seen other EB-1's with them but the idea of a flat back full contact bridge on a carved top makes me shudder.
Is that your bridge by the way? I'll pay you dollars for it, they're almost as good as euros now you know.

There's a guy in Argentine who casts nice bar bridges :)
Title: Re: SG
Post by: 4stringer77 on July 28, 2022, 05:03:03 PM
That’d be great if it can fit an EB-1. Is he on Reverb or does he have a website?
Title: Re: SG
Post by: amptech on July 28, 2022, 10:04:53 PM
That’d be great if it can fit an EB-1. Is he on Reverb or does he have a website?

I don't think it's a drop in if you have the later two point, but if you have the old one it will fit. I bought one a few years back to try out. Finish is not 100%, but good enough. Otherwise it's perfect.

I bought one through his ebay site, not sure if he is present elsewhere.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: Dave W on July 28, 2022, 11:51:15 PM
You wish!  :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

He would have fallen to his knees and asked which one of his nuts - left or right - he could sacrifice for that TB Plus sound which would have driven his Marshalls mighty fine!  :P :P


You wish! It's got the TB Plus bobbin construction but with the wide coil separation it doesn't sound like one. And its output pales in comparison to a real mudbucker.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: 4stringer77 on July 29, 2022, 03:46:45 AM
Mine’s the reissue with the humbucker so the bar bridge made for offset posts probably wouldn’t work then. I’ll keep my eyes peeled for an evertilt.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: amptech on July 29, 2022, 04:36:46 AM
Mine’s the reissue with the humbucker so the bar bridge made for offset posts probably wouldn’t work then. I’ll keep my eyes peeled for an evertilt.

I see. Good luck, someone must have one lying around.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: uwe on July 29, 2022, 04:59:11 AM
You wish! It's got the TB Plus bobbin construction but with the wide coil separation it doesn't sound like one. And its output pales in comparison to a real mudbucker.

Wish-wash-wosh! It doesn't sound quite like a real TB+, yes, but it shares the characteristics. And the output of a mudbucker is mostly one frequency, while the TB+ covers a broader spectrum. The TB+ just lets you hear more of the bass, with a mudbucker you hear mostly the mudbucker - it doesn't make much of a difference on what it is planted.

For the record: Of course, a mudbucker is a force of nature and worthy of cultish reverence plus nice to have in the arsenal. The amount of 60ies and 70ies home hifis through which you could actually hear what was being played through a muducker is limited though.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: SG
Post by: 4stringer77 on July 29, 2022, 08:11:43 AM
Speaking of SGs, this fretless conversion ain't too shabby.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjyAG3wbDZU
Title: Re: SG
Post by: morrow on July 29, 2022, 08:21:45 AM
Nice walks ! That SG sounds good .
Title: Re: SG
Post by: uwe on July 29, 2022, 10:30:42 AM
Notes ring out nicely, but inlays look plain weird on a fretless neck and get in the way. But generally speaking, nothing speaks against a shorty as a fretless.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: amptech on July 30, 2022, 04:51:49 AM
Interesting. I've been working on getting a fretless EB-3 for probably 15 years now, but gave up Gibson.
I have to admit, none of the wood/body types of Gibson shortscale EB basses really works without frets.
I tried every possible combination of electronics, including positioning of pickups, LoZ pickups and strings but no luck.
Not even the bar bridge helps (Uwe can use this comment later if he wants to). The best so far must have been the SB300 I got from Scott, it needed a fret job so I tried it out as fretless for some time. But it was never better than OK, so I put frets back on.

In the end I built a body (60's EB3 thickness) out of an Abachi/Maple sandwich and a really fat laminated maple/katalox neck with a thick slab katalox board. I could hear it was better even as I strung it up the first time, it really sings. Can't wait to have it finished, hope to post a project here when it's done. I guess it's the woods that make it good, but I do have strong belief in a fat neck being better for this instrument.

Of course, now I want to build one with frets too  8)
Title: Re: SG
Post by: uwe on July 30, 2022, 01:20:13 PM
I have an LPB-2 fretless and an LBP-3 doublecut fretless, both long scale of course, both all maho, both work fine as fretless basses. So do my converted Mon(k)ey Bass (all maho with maple top and walnut plate, long scale), the converted Grabber (maple and alder, long scale) and the converted Ripper(ditto) as well as the medium scale Epi EB-1 (whatever Epi fantasy wood they had lying aroung, probably limba). Never had a fretless short scale though.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: ilan on July 30, 2022, 03:07:49 PM
In fretless, I find that the shorter the scale, the more "rubbery" the sound. Uprights have 41"-42" scale for a reason. The only short scale fretless that I liked the sound of was the Rob Allen 30" Mouse.

Title: Re: SG
Post by: uwe on July 30, 2022, 07:22:57 PM
To me 'rubbery' is just different, not necessarily worse. I have large hands, so a long scale fretless is more comfortoble to play for me, with a short scale I need to adjust a little, especially in the higher registers.

My Super 400 Acoustic is "just" medium scale. Sound wise, I notice that less on that bass than on my electrics.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: amptech on July 30, 2022, 11:59:47 PM

My Super 400 Acoustic is "just" medium scale. Sound wise, I notice that less on that bass than on my electrics.

I hate it when you mention it >:(
Now that thing I'd lose a bit of testicle to own.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: Dave W on July 31, 2022, 12:20:18 AM
Wish-wash-wosh! It doesn't sound quite like a real TB+, yes, but it shares the characteristics. And the output of a mudbucker is mostly one frequency, while the TB+ covers a broader spectrum. The TB+ just lets you hear more of the bass, with a mudbucker you hear mostly the mudbucker - it doesn't make much of a difference on what it is planted.

For the record: Of course, a mudbucker is a force of nature and worthy of cultish reverence plus nice to have in the arsenal. The amount of 60ies and 70ies home hifis through which you could actually hear what was being played through a muducker is limited though.  :mrgreen:

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that. I've owned two SG basses, the neck pickup doesn't sound like anything like a TBird pickup to me, at least in that position. And it's somewhat anemic in that spot.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: ilan on July 31, 2022, 12:59:19 AM
I have large hands, so a long scale fretless is more comfortable to play for me, with a short scale I need to adjust a little, especially in the higher registers.

Stanley Clarke has huge hands, plays an upright like a mandolin, and still prefers 30" basses. If guitar players of all sizes can manage the in the solo region (not to mention violinists), then we should have no problem on a 30" bass. To me scale is about sound. If I wasn't a vintage snob I'd probably be very happy with a fanned fret 30-to-34" bass.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: morrow on July 31, 2022, 04:41:19 AM
I have a little Ashbory I fool around on when I want to hear iffy intonation .
The upper registers on that are tricky .
I had a fretless phase maybe fifteen years ago , I had a great fretless maple Pbass . It was my main player for a time and then I went back to frets .
I do play upright .
Title: Re: SG
Post by: uwe on July 31, 2022, 03:50:19 PM
Stanley Clarke has huge hands, plays an upright like a mandolin, and still prefers 30" basses. If guitar players of all sizes can manage the in the solo region (not to mention violinists), then we should have no problem on a 30" bass. To me scale is about sound. If I wasn't a vintage snob I'd probably be very happy with a fanned fret 30-to-34" bass.

On a fretted bass, I need a few seconds to adjust from long scale to short scale. On a fretless, where every little millimeter spread in you hands counts, it takes a while longer.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: ilan on August 04, 2022, 03:33:13 PM
Carles Benavent on a fretless EB-2D, with Paco de Lucía.

https://youtu.be/RSYESgZM0NI

Title: Re: SG
Post by: ilan on August 04, 2022, 03:34:16 PM
https://fb.watch/eI0KpyW-o2/
Title: Re: SG
Post by: uwe on August 04, 2022, 03:59:13 PM
Carles Benavent on a fretless EB-2D, with Paco de Lucía.

https://youtu.be/RSYESgZM0NI

Impressive and tuneful.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: ilan on August 05, 2022, 02:16:01 AM
A blonde EB-2D with a blank plank is a very beautiful bass. But on a close look I just noticed there are faint fret lines.

That's the bridge pickup solo'ed, right? He gets a great sound with a pick.
Title: Re: SG
Post by: uwe on August 05, 2022, 05:03:13 AM
I have no issues with people who prefer fretlines on their fretless, whatever floats your boat. Whether they help you or do more damage is a quasi-religious issue.