The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: Hornisse on June 11, 2010, 02:50:19 PM
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160443143076&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT
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Poor Uwe :toast:
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I was thinking the same thing! 8)
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For that estimated overseas shipping charge, you might as well book two coach seats for "Mr. Gibson" and fly it over.
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Screams fake to me. Different route patterns on the control cavities, diverging neck angles, butt check lower bought. A married piece imho.
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I was thinking the same thing - TWO serial numbers!? And I have never seen the controls of the top instrument located where they are. With the refin, two serial numbers, and the controls I think it is fishy at best.
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I was thinking the same thing - TWO serial numbers!? And I have never seen the controls of the top instrument located where they are. With the refin, two serial numbers, and the controls I think it is fishy at best.
Yeah the two sets of controls are bogus.
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The necks are angled because of the tuners. It looks as though a lefty EB6 was grafted to a right handed EB3. The pots all match too. Could have been a special order in 1970? I remember seeing this in Austin back in the 1980's. Seems like someone went through a lot of effort if it is a fake.
I think the overseas shipping charges are most likely $450.
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Being a black refin................ it must be worth more than if it were all origional! :o :o ??? ??? ??? :mrgreen:
It's still cheaper than any EB-6 I've seen lately.. :-\
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Wow, two shortscale basses glued together! Sounds extra-useful! :P
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My concern was the cavities, too...
Some of you collectors will be able to correct me here, but why is the colour in the cavity differing from the cherry under the black...?
I've not seen many up close (played a Gibbie cherry 6/12 some years back, also have some good BJH pics of a guitar/bass combo) but someone here must have had a chance to see one, and anyone got a pic of one in their collection for an example...?
Doesn't make sense to have two sets of controls...
If she is the genuine article, that would not be an unreasonable price - a collection and seat on a flight back to the Fatherland would not be unreasonable, compared to that shipping cost...
An LBO brother could make the trip to secure post payment and look after the girlie until she was collected, but only if she were not a "cut-and-shut..."
Yet again... caveat emptor...
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(http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/5597/gibsondoubleneckez8.jpg)
seen these before and have my own pics...
(http://elderly.com/images/vintage/80U/80U-2234_front.jpg)
a 1966 mandolin/tenor banjo...
Two distinctly differing builds, but look at the control and scratchplate configuration - both pretty much spot on the same - anyone can google Mr Page and see the same configuration on a 6/12...
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Note the paralell necks and no butt crack in the pics Kenny posted.
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(http://i49.tinypic.com/24173w1.jpg)
Ace's old Doubleneck has the necks a bit skewed, but you can't really see the butt crack. The only double neck Gibbie with a six string bass I could find was this old gem, and it has a six string guitar on bottom.
(http://i49.tinypic.com/14ie7u9.jpg)
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I spotted that one earlier too, Robert, but I suspect that the divergence is due to the shot being taken with a wide angle lens (I think) with the neck coming towards the lens, hence the divergence in the necks - they have necks that are pretty much parallel from all the images I've seen...
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w209/mistersnappy/arlington09022.jpg)
also found this Gibson variant as I was trawling with two sets of controls, but below each neck pair...
Hold on a moment... hasn't this been up for sale before...?
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(http://i47.tinypic.com/mkxfdj.jpg)
One of Pete's old double necks. Supposedly a '67.
(http://i47.tinypic.com/zx901d.jpg)
Still cannot see the butt crack....
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But boy can you see the joint where the bodies were joined ! Looks to be a hint of butt crack !
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I'm wondering if that was Pete's original Double Neck and was broken/repaired and looked like the one pictured? I've seen photo's of a similar double neck that looked normal.
(http://i46.tinypic.com/11m5nk3.jpg)
August 1967 looks normal
(http://i49.tinypic.com/5pofnq.jpg)
October 1967 looks a bit odd......Same guitar?
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My first impression was 'fake'. Just a gut feeling, but who knows...
I'm still angry at myself for not buying a Gibson-copy guitar/bass doubleneck for 450 euros ten years ago..
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Playing devil's advocate here for a minute...
The reason for the diverging neck angles could be the fact that there are two necks and accompanying headstocks are of equal length and width, and both have big cloverleaf tuners. If they had not angled the necks, the tuners would have gotten all tangled up n' stuff.
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I'm wondering if that was Pete's original Double Neck and was broken/repaired and looked like the one pictured? I've seen photo's of a similar double neck that looked normal.
(http://i46.tinypic.com/11m5nk3.jpg)
August 1967 looks normal
(http://i49.tinypic.com/5pofnq.jpg)
October 1967 looks a bit odd......Same guitar?
If it is the same guitar it has been reworked.
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"If they had not angled the necks, the tuners would have gotten all tangled up n' stuff."
That is certainly the reason why it had to happen here but merging the two bodies in a less close fashion or using smaller tuners (which Gibson already used back then) could have avoided the issues altogether, smaller lighter tuners would certainly make sense on a double neck.
I don't think that we can rule out that someone had a a lefty EB-6 and asked Gibson to glue it together with an EB-3 he had as well. Besides the strange controls arrangement, that might also explain that the different components stem from different periods, just look at the varying eras of the Gibson logos:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/19/!BvNTE3!!2k~$(KGrHqQOKjoEvO0ucsKfBMDm3enNG!~~_3.JPG)
with none of them being really typical of 1970 when this contraption was allegedly created:
SG shape EB-6s were deleted in 1966 - had Gibson built one in 1970, I doubt they would have still used the bar bridge rather than using an intonatable guitar bridge.
The EB-3 can't be older than late 67 - when the dreaded tip-o-matic two point was introduced, but at the same time not any younger than 1969. By 1969/70, the neck mudbucker featured a black plastic frame which this one doesn't.
So Gibson was supposed to have built something from scratch in 1970 using three to four years old parts? I doubt it.
For me, the final straws are however the refin and the price:
- That a doubleneck bass would see that much action that it would need a refin is doubtful - more likely the black color covers a seam of the originally cherry components.
- To be the real thing, this double neck is way too cheap, I think the buyer knows that this an after-market marriage which is why he is careful not to assure too much about the Gibson origin.
That said, if the four stringer was a long scale bass I might be intrigued enough to make an offer. Instead, I have written to Gibson asking them about it. Regarding that "Rush-LP bass" we discussed a while back they were kind enough to answer that they had never seen or heard of such a bass and that without serial number it was impossible to tell.
Uwe
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I don't think that we can rule out that someone had a a lefty EB-6 and asked Gibson to glue it together with an EB-3 he had as well.
with none of them being really typical of 1970 when this contraption was allegedly created:
So Gibson was supposed to have built something from scratch in 1970 using three to four years old parts? I doubt it.
I don't think that we can rule out that someone had a a lefty EB-6 and asked Gibson someone to glue it together with an EB-3 he had as well.
Probably done in 1970 with a couple of 3 - 4 year old used basses. Probably replaced the pots then too. I would bet that if you were able to inspect this in person, the chips in the black fin would reveal different base coats on the top and bottom.
If Gibson had built this it would have one serial number.
We also can't assume because Pete Townsend had a double-neck with angled necks that Gibson created it, look at what his bassist was playing.
It wouldn't surprise me if there were more double-necks created outside of the Gibson factory than inside it.
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All very true. But I do find the black fin and the double neck look appealing though the six string/four string short scale mix is less inviting. It pretty much comes down to the difference between a mudbucker driven short scale bass and one using PAFs. On my EB-6 the PAFs supply ample bass, but with none of the raw energy of a mudbucker.
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Got to remind you gentlemen of this strange creature, that I've mentioned before:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etaxm0x_Vls
At around 1:18 you'll se the beast in full. Anyone remember if we got to any form of conclusion concerning it's origin, the first time around? Seems like the double-neck's carrying two fourstring necks?
Edit to fix video code.
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Looks like a fretted and a fretless long scale to me. Sensible combination, way to go!
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Couple things:
I played that double-neck bass, or one just like it, in 1985 at Ray Hennig's in Austin, they wanted $2K for it then, almost bought it.
Pete's doubleneck was originally "normal" but came in to some damage and was put back together with the necks splayed out.
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One thing is for certain: that guy at Gibson is a dope.
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Couple things:
I played that double-neck bass, or one just like it, in 1985 at Ray Hennig's in Austin, they wanted $2K for it then, almost bought it.
Pete's doubleneck was originally "normal" but came in to some damage and was put back together with the necks splayed out.
That's where I saw this thing! I was there playing some basses and I believe they had this one there. Not surprising since Jimmie/Stevie used the double neck Danelectro's quite a bit. Wish I'd bought that slab board refin '59 P bass with gold guard that Ray was asking $600.
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Ok, now it has become a 1964 Gibson...... :rolleyes:
JUST HEARD BACK FROM GIBSON COPY OF E-MAIL BELOW
Hello Bob,
Thanks for writing. This actually appears consistent with a late-1963 – early-1964 model EBSF-1250. The bass was likely in production in 1963, and the final stamp and departure from our factory was in 1964.
Thank you for the inquiry.
Best regards,
Benton Cummings
Gibson Customer Service
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I once asked Gibson some info about '76 Thunderbird pick ups (unknown of what sidewinders where at the time. Pre-Dudepit). I descirbed them carefully and Gibson stated that they've never made such pick ups.
Have to think about the doubleneck BC Rich of Derek Smalls. Two similar necks, no use, so brilliant:D
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Ouch, that Gibson quote hurts bad. With the 1967-onwards two point and the varying Gibson logos, stating that the instrument left the factory in 1964 is negligent at best.
:-\ :-\ :-\
Uwe
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Ouch, that Gibson quote hurts bad. With the 1967-onwards two point and the varying Gibson logos, stating that the instrument left the factory in 1964 is negligent at best.
:-\ :-\ :-\
Uwe
Maybe that's part of Gibson's problem of late.
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I've written to Gibson Customer Service about this, pointing out the obvious errors. To Benton Cummings' defense it could be that he only received the serial number and the fact that "it is a double neck" from the seller when making his (brave) assessment. The EB-6 might indeed be and probably is from 1963/64.
Still, considering how much their brand name and legacy supposedly means to them and how they bank on it even today, you'd wish they'd put more care into their assessments.
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Gibson Customer Service sent me a pic of this here
(http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/graphics/gib63p15.jpg)
and said this must be the one ... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
"Hi,
Take a look at the following link about the EBSF-1250 from 1963
http://everythingsg.com/index.php/1963g.html
Regards,
...... (name)
Customer Service Europe"
I reacted somewhat exasperated and wrote this here:
But that is a completely different instrument, ... (name)! The EBSF-1250 is a short scale bass and a six string guitar. What we have in the auction is two basses of equal (short scale) neck length, a four string and a six string bass (not a guitar, look at the neck length), the very rare EB-6.
Plus the EBSF has the four string bass on top and the auction piece the four string bass as the lower instrument. The controls are vastly different (the auction piece is made of a left- and a right-handed instrument), the shape is (the EBSF has in tradition with Gibson doublenecks no "butt-crack", but the auction piece does), the necks of the EBSF are perfectly parallel, the auction piece has them angled ...
If anything, the reference to an EBSF 1250 seems to indicate that the auction piece is a homemade piece of two Gibson pieces grafted together.
Kind Regards"
Haven't heard from them since.
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I love you "law talkin' guys"
I collect for fins, therfore I sin.......... ;)
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Have to think about the doubleneck BC Rich of Derek Smalls. Two similar necks, no use, so brilliant:D
But the other neck was an 8-string, if you mean that "Big Bottom" bass.
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Gibson's customer service is second to none, and only slightly better than none.
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A bit off-topic, for Pekke:
Smalls said in an interview he entered the BC Rich showroom and it had a double neck with two identical necks'
'What's the use of that?'
'Nothing'
'I'll take it'
I've seen ones with 8 and 4 strings, but could this be the one I'm talking about?
(http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?s=220d8f1a645b01e26b7ae136cd795641&act=attach&type=post&id=38352)
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If the pickups are different it would still make sense (sort of... :rolleyes:)
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Nothing says "seventies" and "stadium rock" as nicely and succinctly as a doubleneck. And I mean that as a compliment. I think they are iconic. :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
I like dry ice too. :-X :-[
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For Dave
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUgLLwAi820
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I have a hunch he just doesn't understand that kind of music ... :-X
Dave is such a gentle leader
Except in cases of odd meter
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Listening to New Bomb Turks right now, not going to spoil my mood by clicking on that video even for a few seconds.
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I've seen ones with 8 and 4 strings, but could this be the one I'm talking about?
(http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?s=220d8f1a645b01e26b7ae136cd795641&act=attach&type=post&id=38352)
Looks like a Tobias to me. Definitely not a B.C. Rich.
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Listening to New Bomb Turks right now, not going to spoil my mood by clicking on that video even for a few seconds.
But its in 10/8 !
:P
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Listening to New Bomb Turks right now, not going to spoil my mood by clicking on that video even for a few seconds.
Good decision.
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That McLaughlin clip reminded me of the Rex Bogue guitars. He had built a rather epic-looking doubleneck for Miroslav Vitous in the 70s:
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/miroslav.jpg)
(not nearly as epic as those birdman shoulder pads!)
I'll spare ya the audio :P ;D
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"I'll spare ya the audio."
Why? Herr Fertig would have appreciated it, I'm certain. Back in the dark days, when Herr Westheimer would ruth- and relentlessly crack down on anybody admiitting a liking for (1) Roger Dean, (2) double and triple albums, (3) glitzy capes and/or (4) odd meters, dear John Fertig was our fearless Harvey Milk of prog and jazz/fusion.
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Here's the Tap and the 8 string/4 string BC Rich. :mrgreen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzsWuqNlLK4
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"I'll spare ya the audio."
Why? Herr Fertig would have appreciated it, I'm certain. Back in the dark days, when Herr Westheimer would ruth- and relentlessly crack down on anybody admiitting a liking for (1) Roger Dean, (2) double and triple albums, (3) glitzy capes and/or (4) odd meters, dear John Fertig was our fearless Harvey Milk of prog and jazz/fusion.
Maybe I should have phrased that differently: I'll spare us all the audio... ;D
I love Vitous' upright playing, and might enjoy his electric playing in another context. I do indeed likes me some fusion (was enjoying Herbie Hancock's Sextant this morning), but this album just does not speak to me.
Here's a snippet to give you some idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DqvqPq0lR8
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It sounds like an awkward Return to Forever.
The dude does not look like a chick!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxg1AoEz9p4
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OMG. Stanley Clarke doesn't have fingers, he has tentacles!!! :o
I really like RtF, that's jazz rock with some real balls.
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OMG. Stanley Clarke doesn't have fingers, he has tentacles!!! :o
I really like RtF, that's jazz rock with some real balls.
It always amazes me how most virtuaso musicians have long snake fingers. A tBird for Stanley would offer no barriers for upper fret access.
RTF were to me, the pinnacle of the Genre. It went downhill after that in my opinion. To me, it was the only band of virtuoso musicians, all playing their areses off at the same time, yet worked, due to them playing compositions, not just masturbating over a redundant format. Their playing still served the songs.
I also really like Lenny White, his solo music is great as well.
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Clarke+Corea+DiMeola+White=meltdown...
How about a little solo work from Mr Clarke...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLIUj98rdXc
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Probably a Tobias. I was at Mike's old shop in Hollywood back in the early 90s and he was just finishing up a greenburst HEADLESS 4-string for "Derek" and said "Hey, you play headless...try this out"...and pulled the bass out and told me who it was for.
Mike said it was the only headless he'd ever made. Not sure if he made any others since.
It played and sounded great but was VERY heavy. I told him it weighed like a cinderblock. He laughed and agreed it turned out heavy, then said "the best headless basses in the world are built by a guy in France named Christophe Leduc."
Mike laughed when I told him I was actually a Leduc endorser.
I later saw Tobias and Leduc at a number of trade shows hanging out. Apparently close friends.
I sometimes get "Derek's" (Harry Shearer's) mail by mistake, delivered to my house in New Orleans because he sometimes does work at the recording studio on the next block from me (same house number but different street....our mailman drinks on the job I think.)