The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bass Amps & Effects => Topic started by: TBird1958 on March 10, 2010, 04:55:00 PM
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Hey All,
So after about 25 years of using nothing but solid state GK amplification I recently decided I'd try an all tube head - for several reasons actually.
First, I wanted something different, plain and simple.
Second, I needed something of less wattage than my 750GK for some venues we play, smaller shows and places with dodgy electricity ( i.e. can't support a 20amp circuit)
Third, sometimes it's be nice to just simply plug the bass straight into the amp, and get good tone without pedals cluttering up the signal chain - a side benift would be that I could travel a bit lighter as well, sometimes just using a single cabinet.
As some of you know I did get to borrow a Hiwatt DR103 from Mike Lull for about a week, I really enjoyed it's warm tone and of course I loved it! The downside here was that finding one for sale and making it reliable would have been an expensive proposition. I seriously considered a Reeves 225 as option but at 2500.00 for a new one I just didn't think I could justify that either.
I guess I'm just not an Ampeg guy anymore, I had a V4 many years ago but again I don't think I'm really after a vintage amp..........My search lead me to check out Traynor as an all tube handwired Canadian made alternative. I looked at them first on the M.F. website which at least gives you some spec and user reviews and I felt pretty favorable at that point, their price was $969.00 plus $10 shipping and tax. I was pretty close to buying and just happened to be visiting a local mom and pop shop that I don't get to that often for some Ken Smith Roundwounds when lo and behold they have a new one they'd just put out on display. They didn't have a Thunderbird in the shop I ended up playing a Geddy Lee Jazz to try it out (Forgive me Father for I have sinned!)and was really impressed with its tone and decided to have a look at the price tag.......$879.00 that's it sold!
At bedroom sound levels it's creamy warm and wonderful - very difficult to do with my GK. It's especially nice when playing fingerstyle, you get a nice solid upfront thump and some nice growl with the mids and treble bumped up.
I also had the chance to open it up a bit with the band at rehearsal on sunday night as well - We rehearse using I.E.M.'s for part of the overall sound my headphone mix includes vocals, keys and guitar (these instrument only go to the headphones we don't use a PA at rehearsal anymore.) Bass and drums don't go into the mix so I crank the amp up a bit so it sounds good at the sdame level as our drummer plays. Again the amp produces wonderful tone, and I found myself play a lot more fingerstyle than usual ( with some slightly sore fingertips too!) and really enjoying the solid thump and decay. With a pick I'm still getting that kinda angry, clankey piano tone that I like but with a bit more prescence.
I'm very favorably impressed so far, so much so that it'll likely go to our next show instead of the GK :)
So, I'm told it's a good idea to carry spare tubes, anybody got some suggestions for which brand and place to purchase?
Here's a front panel shot
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/traynor003.jpg)
And it's lovely hindquarters
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/traynor007.jpg)
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So, I'm told it's a good idea to carry spare tubes, anybody got some suggestions for which brand and place to purchase?
The people who told you that are full of shit. If a tube fails, whether it be the fault of the tube or the amp, the damage will happen almost guarantees that you'll either just destroy your new tubes or damamge your amp further. Fortunately, tubes and tube amps are far more robust than they are generally given credit for being.
BTW, congrats of the new amp!
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Welcome to the club...
I've never blown a valve, ever (touching wood - stop sniggering), but blown a few OP fuses... my DR103 has had the same valves I fitted in the late seventies (fell off the back of a Marshall - don't ask), used right through the eighties, got packed up in '88, warmed up a few times over the years, regular usage again last year, and still quite cosy...
PBG's probably one of the best to answer that, though Scott probably spoke with a voice with better experience than mine...
Careful transit, especially decent suspension whilst on the move, is probably the best advice I can offer...
Enjoy...
ps written before PBG's reply... ;D
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I never carried spare tubes, just a fuse.
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Great deal on a nice looking head! I may have to check those out. They rent them out at Rock n' Roll Rentals here in town.
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I haven't used a tube-free amp in over 20 years. All I carry is a spare 12AX7. The same one... for over 20 years. ;D
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Tubes last for decades - they're not as fragile as many think. IMO Carrying spares is a waste of time and money.
Consider: if a tube goes out, how are you going to determine which tube unless you ALSO carry a tube tester? I have two, but they're not available for indefinite loan.
Disregard. If it really concerns you, take a back up head.
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"The people who told you that are full of shit." If a tube fails, whether it be the fault of the tube or the amp, the damage will happen almost guarantees that you'll either just destroy your new tubes or damamge your amp further. Fortunately, tubes and tube amps are far more robust than they are generally given credit for being.
BTW, congrats of the new amp!
"The people who told you that are full of shit." Isn't everyone ? ;D Back in the days when you could get USA made tubes reliability was not much of a problem, now with eastern block tubes and products from China I find it a good idea to carry a few spares, as my tech (read electrical engineer) says the import tubes are a pig in a poke. I go through preamp tubes more than power tubes. I sure can't hurt carrying a few spares miles from nowhere. Also helps when the geetard drops his head, or heaven forbid you do ! :o Congrats on the amp !
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Sorry, but that's not the case, and if your amps are eating preamp tubes, there is something seriously wrong with them. The whole 'lower quality means spares are necessary' line is a bunch of bullshit; current production tubes do not last as long in general as old US and European production, but we're talking a difference of four or five years out of 30 or 40. If they're really poor quality, they die instantly. You're not going to have one just 'up and die' without it giving you plenty of warning. 15-20 years ago, Chinese tubes were a crapshoot. Nowadays, there are more audio tubes being manufactured than there EVER were 'back in the day,' and there are currently produced models that I would rather have instead of vintage.
I also retiterate what I said previously: If a tube fails, whether it be the fault of the tube or the amp, the damage will happen almost guarantees that you'll either just destroy your new tubes or damage your amp further. If you drop your amp and it breaks a tube, there will be something else broken inside it 99.9% of the time. Just because their envelopes are glass, doesn't mean they're going to shatter with the least hit. How fragile is your car's windshield?
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When did I say my amps were eating pre amp tubes? I have half a dozen tube heads, some get more use than others, they bounce around in my van in all kinds of weather. Most of my amps only see use onstage, then back in storage they go, since I run more than one head I may not notice a preamp tube is going in one amp, I'll only discover it at the next sound check and that's when I am happy I have spares. I keep spares and have had to use them. 30 plus years of experience have taught me that this is a good idea for me, you and anyone else may does as they like.
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Thanks TBird1958...
I've been looking for someone I knew who has bought one of these to see what they thought.
I actually have a late 60's Traynor YBA-3A Super Custom Special that I'm looking to sell soon.
...Maybe I'll have to grab a Traynor YBA 200-2s down the road.
Thanks again for the user review... and a trusted one at that!
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i may want that super custom special if ya decide to part with it.
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When did I say my amps were eating pre amp tubes?
Why else would you be changing them? ???
I have half a dozen tube heads, some get more use than others, they bounce around in my van in all kinds of weather.
I've got loads of old tube PA and recording gear, 30+ tube amps, and have been fixing them for almost 20 years, and have NEVER had to change a preamp tube at a gig. They are also stored outside and ride around in the back of my pickup under a camper top. I've had a Mullard 12DW7 split its envelope and go gassy when I was reinstalling it in an SVT after cleaning up the amp on my bench, and other than that, the only changes I've ever had to make with preamp tubes have simply been for different makes or types for a change in tone. I once lost a power tube to a short when my Trace Elliot VR400 vibrated off my Acme and fell to the ground and it ran for about five minutes more until the current imbalance blew the mains fuse.
since I run more than one head I may not notice a preamp tube is going in one amp, I'll only discover it at the next sound check and that's when I am happy I have spares.
I reiterate my earlier question: why are you changing preamp tubes if they are functional?
I keep spares and have had to use them. 30 plus years of experience have taught me that this is a good idea for me, you and anyone else may does as they like.
20 years of experience fixing them says you're wasting your money.
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Nice Amp! I'd like to get a hold of one of those to do an A/B with the V4BH...
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PBG When you use the word "eating" to me that means going through them a lot. I don't get what you are all whipped up about. I carry spares and have used them. Your opinion is that it is not nessesary Fine I really don't care, we disagree no big deal. That does not mean I am "full of shit". Honestly I think your moderating skills could use a little work.
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:popcorn:
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I carry spares and have used them.
Tell me - how do you determine which tube is faulty? No glow? This has always been a stopper for me...perhaps I've missed something!
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PBG When you use the word "eating" to me that means going through them a lot.
That's exactly how I meant it, but from what I gather, the "bad" preamp tubes you are pulling are not non-functional; they just don't sound right to you, so you swap them. There's a name for that: the placebo effect- a change is expected, so it is observed. Any time you want to get rid of your "bad" tubes, I'll be happy to take them off your hands and post some test data on just how "bad" they really are.
I don't get what you are all whipped up about.
...says the person continually arguing that he's not arguing. ;D
Really? You don't get that my professional experience, technical data, and training, not my "opinion," is diametrically opposed to what you're saying, and I keep trying to reconcile the two? This is not a matter of opinion; this is a matter of fact; are spare tubes a good idea? The answer is an unqualified "no."
I carry spares and have used them.
...which is a different than saying that it is a good idea for someone else to carry them out of necessity, which is bullshit.
our opinion is that it is not nessesary
No, my experience is that it is not neccessary. Anyone can have an opinion; I speak from a position of technical expertise.
Fine I really don't care, we disagree no big deal
Your past few posts say otherwise...
That does not mean I am "full of shit".
I attributed that statement BEFORE you entered this thread and seemed to take such strong offense to my using it. The argument that spare tubes are necessary is baseless in fact, so the people who purport, are in fact, supporting a fallacy, and are "full of shit" when attempting to speak to it from an informed technical perspective. Just because you disagree doesn't mean I'm going to take it back. I never singled you out prior to your argument, nor was I even aware you felt that way, so please don't try and play some "martyr card" that you're being personally abused. I have nothing against you personally at all other than a little frustration with your apparent stubbornness to refuse to differienate between fact and opinion.
Honestly I think your moderating skills could use a little work.
I have not "moderated" this thread in any fashion, nor have I used my position as moderator to enforce my views. Your posts have not been modified, censored or otherwise altered by me in any way, shape, form, or fashion. This is not an issue of moderation; this is an issue of disagreement. As to your opinion of my "moderating skills," it has been duly noted and given the appropriate weight of action.
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I told Mark it is a good idea to carry spares, I stand by that statement. You are the one who came out with both guns blazing by stating who ever told you that is "full of shit". I do take issue with that. I may not come from a technical background but I do come from a user background of over 39 years. 8 times out of 10 when I take a amp in for work it is the preamp tubes. "No, my experience is that it is not neccessary. Anyone can have an opinion; I speak from a position of technical expertise" Still just your opinion.
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DING-DING... end of round one...
(nice weather we're having for this time of year...)
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Ahem -
If I may interrupt, can someone tell me how they determine in the field:
1) That a tube has failed, and;
2) If so, which tube?
It seems to me that unless both of these can be achieved without testing equipment, the issue of carrying tubes into the field is moot.
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Hey ppl stop fighting, we're not in TB anyway. ;)
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What kind of jobs do you all have that you can sit here in the middle of the day and argue nonsense? I want to apply! :mrgreen:
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I told Mark it is a good idea to carry spares,
I was not aware of that when i said what I did, nor did I single out anything you said until you very vehemently argued that my statements as to the facts were simply an optional opinion. If you're hell bent on carrying around spare tubes, by all means, do so, but don't try to equate your gut feelings as valid technical fact.
I stand by that statement.
Obviously; that doesn't make it any more factual; that just makes it your personal opinion.
You are the one who came out with both guns blazing by stating who ever told you that is "full of shit". I do take issue with that.
Get thicker skin. I didn't mean to insult you personally and if you can't recognize a little hyperbole, I suggest you try to envision most of my more "vitriolic" posts with tounge firmly in cheek and quit looking for personal insults where none exist. We disagree, obviously, but please, cut the victim routine. This is the big boy forum where we sometimes talk like big boys and don't act like teenage girls making everything unnecessarily dramatic. I'm sorry you took offense to the way I phrased my statement, and if it really bothers you that bad, my PM box is wide open.
I may not come from a technical background but I do come from a user background of over 39 years. 8 times out of 10 when I take a amp in for work it is the preamp tubes.
Your "tech" is either being dishonest or isn't actually fixng things and isn't aware of it. There are several circuit faults that changing a preamp tube will temporarily mask, bad coupling caps being the most common. A new tube with a slightly different plate impedance or tonal response can stop or mask decoupling oscillation, which can have symptons of anything ranging from 'weird' tone to ghost notes and feedback. Changing the tube can make that stuff stop, but it doesn't fix the problem, nor was the "old" tube at fault.
"No, my experience is that it is not neccessary. Anyone can have an opinion; I speak from a position of technical expertise" Still just your opinion.
Really? Then please supply me with the cathode currents, transconductance data and/or shorts/faults of your supposedly "bad" tubes. Let's see how my "opinion" matches up against the tubes' spec sheets.
Ahem -
If I may interrupt, can someone tell me how they determine in the field:
1) That a tube has failed, and;
2) If so, which tube?
It seems to me that unless both of these can be achieved without testing equipment, the issue of carrying tubes into the field is moot.
Yep. I asked the same question earlier: 'Why change them?'
Hey ppl stop fighting, we're not in TB anyway. ;)
Being the mod, and it's my call, let me explain why I feel this type of communication is important enough to take place here, even as contetious as it may seem: these issues are not matters of opinion. There is verifiable technical data that directly addresses this subject matter, and to 'let it go' for the sake of "not fighting" does a disservice to people who come to this forum expecting facts. Since you mentioned TB, I'm going to use it as a prime counter-example. Unlike that forum, here, the science of electronics is not subject to a popularity contest or advertiser pressure, nor does it take a backseat to political correctness. I feel very strongly that it be presented accurately. There's no need for vitriol, but vigorous healthy debate is a sign of good forum, not a bad one, that's why I've been so insistent on data or some quantifiable aspect that defines exactly how godofthunder's preamp tubes are not living as long as I state they should.
What kind of jobs do you all have that you can sit here in the middle of the day and argue nonsense? I want to apply! :mrgreen:
...lunchbreak, my friend. I do enjoy this forum.
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Where were we.........oh yeah, great looking bass head Mark!
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"Your "tech" is either being dishonest or isn't actually fixng things" I have been going to John Nau for over 20 years, he not only does repairs, mods etc. but is a well regarded amplifier designer and builder.Your statement qouted IS opinion not fact. I trust him a hell of a lot more than I trust you.
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Not only my "tech" but a close personal friend. http://web.mac.com/tom.hedrick/iWeb/Nau/Welcome.html
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Poly vs. Nitro anyone?
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Not only my "tech" but a close personal friend. http://web.mac.com/tom.hedrick/iWeb/Nau/Welcome.html
...then as a service to all reading this thread, please have him explain why you seem to replace preamp tubes more frequently than what is normally necessary or provide the technical diagnosis he gives you as reasoning for replacement and how he has instructed you to do this in a gig situation, where your "spares" would be needed. Also, out of respect to this forum, unless you're posting some technical data supporting your reasoning, please refrain from further argument. You'll need to provide the ampifier model, the specific tube type, its location in the circuit and the voltage and/or current reading taken from it from which its 'failure' was determined. All other aurgment is spurious and superfluous and will be subject to removal.
If you simply stick with the facts of the matter, there will be no problem, but I am not interested in, nor will I tolerate further personal commentary from you about myself, my "opinions," or my posting style. I have tried to communicate with you openly, honestly, and as friendly as possible. If you feel otherwise, then you are welcome to PM me about it, but this thread is for factual exchange, not personality conflicts.
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Mark and Scott, I don't have the technical knowledge that Psycho Bass Guy does, but I do know that you don't need to be carrying spare tubes to gigs. If you have an amp that's actually blowing tubes so often that you have to carry spares, then you have an amp problem, not a tube problem, and you need to get that taken care of. Tubes last for years.
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First............................Sorry to PBG. Dave I am not blowing tubes or changing them out on every gig, on occassion I have had to use a spare. Once when my guitar player dropped his 100w Marshall one of the 6550s had some loose stuff rattling around in it, replaced with my spare. The few times I have replaced a pre amp tube at a gig is not because of some failure but that the amp had a drop in power or that is was breaking up a little, my technique ? trial and error. Tubes I carry ? KT88s, 6550s and 12xa7s. Again sorry for letting this get out of hand.
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I hope we're all cool now, it's a good discussion to have.
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Mark and Scott, I don't have the technical knowledge that Psycho Bass Guy does, but I do know that you don't need to be carrying spare tubes to gigs. If you have an amp that's actually blowing tubes so often that you have to carry spares, then you have an amp problem, not a tube problem, and you need to get that taken care of. Tubes last for years.
I'm coming from the same place, Dave. I don't claim to have the tech knowledge to discuss this at the circuit level, I'm more an "applied-practical" guy. That's why I asked my two questions earlier...how to tell if a tube is problematic, and how to identify which tube. If there aren't good answers, then having spare tubes serves no function. (EDIT: the comments above in reply #30 indicate that there are some cases in which a tube might be ID'd as a problem...although I doubt that I could do as well.) And I agree, most tubes last for years or decades.
Regardless of the cause of an amp failure, if it's anything other than a blown fuse (and one that's externally user-accessible, which many are not), my contention is that you're unlikely to fix it during a gig. Seems to me that the best fix is either a spare head or a stout PA system and a DI.
Meanwhile, I'm curious to know how the head is working out at gigs....Mark said he might be using it soon.
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Just getting the kettle on... anyone for tea...? ;)
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"Meanwhile, I'm curious to know how the head is working out at gigs....Mark said he might be using it soon."
One more rehearsal with the whole band tonight, I'll make a few small tone tweaks and a/b the volume level between a couple of my '76s - Next Friday and Sat we're on the road to 7 Cedars Casino, a totally pro venue, big beautiful stage, lights, 2 soundguys, private dressing rooms everything comped and great $$$ The Traynor is making the trip, I'm ;D
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Good luck for the gig... :thumbsup:
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On the question of spare tubes, the manual for my Sunn 300t says:
"A simple way to check if the tubes are worn is to replace the set in your amp with your spare set. (You do carry spare tubes and fuses, don't you?)"
Of course I carry neither. The one time the Sunn crapped out on me spare fuses wouldn't have helped, the wiring to the heaters burned open. Luckily this happened on a gig just a few blocks from home. Now I usually carry a spare head, a Sunn 1200S hybrid.
I had a Traynor YBA200 a few years ago. The first series. I bought it because that Sunn is so dang heavy. The Traynor was much lighter, but It didn't do the rich deep clean lows that the Sunn does so I ditched it.
I have since bought an Eden E300t which is as light as the Traynor, but more powerful and better sounding. I am using it most of the time now, but I've come to the conclusion there is a reason they used those big heavy transformers in the Sunn, they sound great.
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Sorry about the long absense. I've had lots of unexpected complications in starting my new job, most of them good, but complications none the less. Since this thread has had a long time to settle down, it's a good time to make good on some PM good-faith promises I made to Scott which can help to clarify the issue of tube replacement. Before I get started, just so it's plain, Scott and I are good with each other, and this is in no way a further argument, but a good opportunity to help clear up some widespread misconceptions about tubes.
on occassion I have had to use a spare. Once when my guitar player dropped his 100w Marshall one of the 6550s had some loose stuff rattling around in it, replaced with my spare.
Big audio power tubes, especially 6550's and KT88's, have lots of internal mass relative to their support structure, and a large physical shock can move the internal parts around without breaking the glass envelope, rendering an otherwise perfect tube shorted. That's exactly what happened to the KT88 that went in my Trace Elliot VR400 when it fell. What happens is that the large mass of the plate and beam-former are really too heavy for the thin metal rods that support them and due to their higher operating temperatures and the larger amount of space than most other audio power tubes like 6L6's or EL34's means that it is quite possible to knock them around enough to bend the internals to the point that places that shouldn't touch, do touch. It's no so much an issue with old manufactered 6550's as they used stronger support beams, but modern tubes can be knocked into shorts; the flipside is that they can also be knocked again to move apart, but it's not a good idea to use a tube that you know has mobile internals. That's not to say that it is common, but it is possible. NOS US tubes, especially GE 6550A's and 8417's, have their own set of problems. If you heard rattling, it was probably toast. However, had the amp been running at the time, it would have required some pretty serious repairs. My Trace Elliot has internal relays which kick in case of failure that a Marshall does not, and even with the relays, the fuse-holder melted before the fuse blew.
The few times I have replaced a pre amp tube at a gig is not because of some failure but that the amp had a drop in power or that is was breaking up a little, my technique ? trial and error.
That's more a case of the aforementioned "expectation" effect, because preamp tubes have so little relative emission to their output that their aging process is so slow as to be imperceptible, even with Chinese junk. It is possible for most musicians to identify and change a microphonic preamp tube, but not on a gig. And in that case, the tube was already bad from the factory; it did not "go" bad.
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The issue of microphonics is the problem that I've run into most frequently - and almost exclusively with preamp tubes. For example, I have a Peavey Alpha tube bass preamp that I cart around to studios, support gigs and anywhere else I'm not using my rig. It's saved me from many a GK (stands for "Goes Klank" - sorry, Mark). Anyhow, I've noticed of late that there is a ring that becomes audible after the amp has warmed up. If you tap the volume knobs you can accentuate it, likewise if you pop the hood and tap on the tubes with the eraser end of a pencil. The original tubes were Peavey Silver Specials (80s Chinese), but I have swapped them with some of the numerous "pull" 12AX7s that I've acquired over the years, and I haven't killed the noise yet. I find it hard to believe that ALL my tubes are microphonic - could anything else be causing the ring?
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Lots of things in a tube amp can become microphonic over time. Old Fenders are famous for their bus wiring being microphonic. Anything that has the potential for movement and generates a magnetic field can be the culprit, from the transformers and bus wiring to capacitors and pots. The best solution is physically isolate the amp from cab vibration. An Aurelex Gramma fits an SVT head perfectly, but folded bath towels or foam padding works just as well.
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I look forward to hearing about this amp in a live situation, I'm not saying that my SVT is getting too heavy but some days it's heavier than others.
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interesting thread. Nice looking amp Mark.
Tubes.
I carry a few tubes just because i carry a lot of back up gear and its easy to do. So I figure why not?
In my 30 years experience its saved me once. Which tends to back up (IMO) what PBG and Dave are saying.
Tubes seem to give a lot of notice before they actually die that they are not happy. Weeks, even months from what I've seen (heard).
Ironically just a few weeks ago we were recording and the AC30 that the geetadis was using started making some crackles, pops and fizz's when being played. I had a cheap new set of JJ's that I gave him which he replaced for the newish EH's that were in the amp.....problem solved, although the amp didnt sparkle quite as much. Nothing wrong wioth the amp just one of the tubes decided it wasn't happy. Live you copuld still have played on without most people being aware. Interesting annecdote I guess but the bottom line for me is that tubes are just as stable as SS.
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Okay all,
This post did need some sort of post show review as I did take the amp out on the road for a long weekend trip. The venue is very pro with a nice FOH system so what ever amp I use, it really won't be working too hard - just enough for me to feel the stage move some as I use IEM's. The Traynor worked just great! It moves easily with handles on either end ( plus feet on one) and if I (with my girlie arms) can move it anybody can! I really like how all my 'Birds sound thru this head, the tone in general has a bit more warmth and growl to it and the brittleness that the GK can have at lower volume is not there at all. I keep the bass at about 12, mids at 1 and the treble kicked up almost full to accentuate the pick attack. My Gain at about 11 and the Master at 1. With such good P.A. support I had two pretty good nights of playing, I switched between my Black '77 and the Lull using my Line 6 in No Amp mode to act as a volume control as the Lull has a pretty hot pick up and I didn't want to throw the soundman for a loop just 'cause I switched basses.
Our next show is local and under similar circumstances but after that we have several shows in May at smaller venues with no P.A. support so my rig will supply all the bass - So here's the question for you all, is 200 watts thru 8x10's enough? Our drummer is loud (aside from being oafish) so I need to keep up with her but we're not over the top loud......
And a little pic from the show with our guitarist ;)
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/Teaserstwo4of6.jpg)
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Okay all,
This post did need some sort of post show review as I did take the amp out on the road for a long weekend trip. The venue is very pro with a nice FOH system so what ever amp I use, it really won't be working to hard - just enough for me to feel the stage move some as I use IEM's. The Traynor worked just great! It moves easily with handles on either end ( plus feet one one) and if I (with my girlie arms) can move it anybody can! I really like how all my 'Birds sound thru this head, the tone in general has a bit more warmth and growl to it and the brittleness that the GK can have at lower volume is not there at all. I keep the bass at about 12, mids at 1 and the treble kicked up almost full to accentuate the pick attack. My Gain at about 11 and the Master at 1. With such good P.A. support I had two pretty good nights of playing, I switched between my Black '77 and the Lull using my Line 6 in No Amp mode to act as a volume control as the Lull has a pretty hot pick up and I didn't want to throw the soundman for a loop just 'cause I switched basses.
Our next show is local and under similar circumstances but after that we have several shows in May at smaller venues with no P.A. support so my rig will supply all the bass - So here's the question for you all, is 200 watts thru 8x10's enough? Our drummer is loud (aside from being oafish) so I need to keep up with her but we're not over the top loud......
And a little pic from the show with our guitarist ;)
No way in the world 200w would be enough for my 8 Ohm EV's but you use GK cabs dont you Mark? That said, 200w of Tube power tends to represent as a lot more than it would if it were SS. It will depend on the speakers IMHO as to weather or not it has enough power. Please make sure you keep updating this thread with your journey into Tubedom.
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Our next show is local and under similar circumstances but after that we have several shows in May at smaller venues with no P.A. support so my rig will supply all the bass - So here's the question for you all, is 200 watts thru 8x10's enough?
You're gonna need to play that one by ear, if you'll pardon the rather lame pun, Ma'am
Suggestion... rehearsal - long lead (or someone with a "good-ear" that you trust) - both amps - see what you get... bodies will always make a difference though...
Whilst you have no experience of the amp in that type of venue, you could always take both, the once, just in case...
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Whilst you have no experience of the amp in that type of venue, you could always take both, the once, just in case...
[toggle Schwarzennerger voice ON]
Jah, und moving zem around vill build up za girlie arms, too!
[/schwarzenegger voice]
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Just needs a bit more iron in her diet... Steely Dan...?
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Mark, I think you're GTG with 200 watts. I've survived the rigors of NJ clubs with my '76 through a V4B and a single SVT bottom (both early 70s)... while there might be a tad more sand in the Vaseline with 100 watts than some might like, I've never been asked to play louder.
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I have found 200w of tube power to be more than enough for most any venue, most of the time I run more than one head and multiple cabs but for smaller shows I use either a 100w or 200w head paired with a 2x15 cab. For big venues I run My Marshall Major (sometime I use a Sound City 200 plus or my Hiwatt 100 in place of the Marshall) and my Hiwatt DR201 with 2x15, 4x12 and 2x12 cabs. Soon to be joined by my Hiwatt 2150 ;D Never had a problem being heared.
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What'd ya say...? I can't hear you... your rigs blown both my ears t' Hell'n'back... ;D
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Mark...how did your yba200 hold up? Looking at these now...
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I've now owned two YBA200 (the first model, not the 200-2) and a YBA300. I upgraded from a YBA200 to a YBA300 for more headroom, but I sold the YBA300 and went back to a YBA200 because the YBA300 had TOO MUCH headroom - it was crazy loud. I could get a much better tone out of the YBA200, which to me sounded like a beefier V4B. So, I've gigged YBAs now for 4 years trouble free - until recently. A power tube failed during a gig and it took out the auto-biasing circuit, which required a couple of hours of work from my tech but less than $10 in parts to fix. He's modded the YBA200 to remove the auto-bias circuit and now it has each power tube individually biased manually like the YBA200-2, so if a tube fails it won't take out numerous components at the same time.
I love the tone from the YBA200, and it dirties up very easily via judicious use of the gain control. Teamed with my sealed Markbass 410 or my Fender Neo 610 it's a perfect match for my old school tribute bands.
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I rented one, but after about 10 mins I gave up. Didn't impress me much when compared to my ol' SA450 MarkBass head..