The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Other Bass Brands => Topic started by: daan on April 17, 2012, 03:26:33 PM
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(Quick version: What's you guys' favorite F-style bridge for a non-professional guy like me? I don't want to catch my hand on the 2" long screws sticking out of this thing and would like actual intonation ability preferrably without paying as much as a whole Squier bass...)
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/2012-04-17150018.jpg)
I just picked this up (70's Hondo II Jazz copy) I know you guys on here are probably going "Yuk" since y'all have real basses, but there's no way I can afford a 'real" Jbass (this one was $79!) and this actually felt nicer than the Squiers they had at the same store. Obviously it didn't sound as nice, but it's a 3-piece ash looking body (instead of the plywood that the "real brand" ones I was comparing it to) and a neck that's easily the nicest shaped bass neck I've had my hands around (other than the real Gibson that cost more than my car did but that's another story...) I've had the terrible plywood Hondos in the past (my 1st real electric was an LP copy) but this thing felt absolutely perfect in my hands, and sounded ...interesting with the humbucker-looking pups. One of them didn't work but who knows if it was the pup itself or the 30 year old wiring but for the price, I'm not complaining.
Anyway the bridge is a 2-barrel one and sometime in the past somebody replaced half of the screws in it with random wood screws, plus I've got "mod-itis" so if you guys were to replace a bridge on something, what would you choose? They have a used chrome 4-barrel bridge at the same store supposedly off a Squier for about the same $ as the new Fender copy ones at guitar-fetish. They also have some weird thing they told me was a "bad-ass copy". I've never replaced a bass bridge, and I'd really like to do it once (and hopefully not spend a huge amount). Considering the bridge on my "real" bass (70's Hofner) is a piece of wood with fret wire holding the strings up ;D) and I think it plays/sounds fine, I probably don't need to be so picky about this, right?
The store guy said I should find someone who's upgrading a Squier and get his cast-off parts, but of course I couldn't find anything like that locally. Got any spare parts you wanna sell? ;)
More pix:
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/2012-04-17145915.jpg)
no plywood here!
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/2012-04-17145853.jpg)
most of the natural ash J's I've seen had maple necks, which I just don't care for. The neck on this thing is HUGE, wide nut and really full back contour. I love it! Girth=good!
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/2012-04-17151001.jpg)
interesting route poking out of the pup ring-maybe I could slip actual J pups in there. Weird bridge, too. There must have been the ash tray cover over this at some point. Do the screws just come out, nothing is coming out the back?
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/2012-04-17151827.jpg)
the usual belt rash but nothing that goes into the actual wood. Nice aged color, too.
I've been sitting here playing this for the last couple hours and only "came up for air" to post this here, no matter what I'm happy with my new toy.
Thanks for letting me schmutz up your awesome forum, I really like coming here but I don't usually have anything to post (some might say I still don't... :mrgreen:)
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The bass looks nice, nothing to be ashamed of. We don't all have expensive basses here.
My favorite Fender replacement bridge is the Gotoh 201, which you can get from Warmoth. Or try an Allparts dealer who sells at a discount from list. It's a drop-in replacement, i.e it has the standard five-hole Fender pattern.
A "bad ass copy" would be something like the Leo Quan Badass II bridge. Some people love 'em. I definitely don't.
I do have a stock bridge from a Mexi Fender I used to own, I had replaced it with a Gotoh 201. It's not a very good bridge IMO, but it's better than what you have. PM me if you want it.
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Another vote for the Gotoh 201 bridge. I've had a couple over the years and liked them a lot. I have copies of the 201's on two of my basses now and they work just as well.
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Thats a cool bass! I love 70's japan import stuff. Cheap, expensive I love 'em all LOL. I like Badass bridges myself but if oyu ar looking for a more vintage type bridge the goth or a 70's style Fender bridge from Allparts will do just fine.
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If you don't replace the bridge, you can get set screws to match the threads of those screws holding up the saddles. They've got to be replacements for the original set screws.
Edit: I also think the Gotoh 201 would be a good alternative.
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I'd go for a Wilkinson F. style bridge, they've got brass saddles and are cheap. They're not as massive as other after market bridges, but i can't hear the difference...maybe iv'e got prosciutto crudo stuffed ears.....
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I agree with Iome, the Wilkinson is the way to go...inexpensive and highly functional plus it'll look "right"
I had a fretless version of this exact bass about 30 years ago...best fretless I ever owned. Wish I still had it!
T
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So with all the votes on here I guess I'll be looking for a 201 when the budget allows... in a year or so :rolleyes:
Well I just spent the last couple hours fooling around with this bass (I was actually a little late to work because of it ;D) The neck is just perfect. It is a little bowed so I might tweak the truss rod and changing the bridge will help too but it's all good. I sprayed a bunch of contact cleaner into the rat nest of wiring (something was changed at some point, and everything is rusty) and all of a sudden the neck (middle? Whatever the front pup is called on here) started working again. Everything is scratchy so I will probably change stuff (the cheezy white plastic control plate and the broken pup switch's gotta go) but its fine for now. Whoever had this before me either sweated like a pig or played in the rain a lot because every (mismatched) screw on here is rusty. The frets/fretboard look OK though. Oh yeah, the pickups. This thing doesn't do "clean" very well but it makes some insane awesome snarly growl thru my little amp, I absolutely love the way it sounds for that kind of sound. It doesn't seem that microphonic (my fake EB2 is so bad you could use it to play a harp thru it, not in a good way) Anyway other than all the buzzing it does (and I was afraid I'd break the screws in the bridge raising it) it sounds and plays juuuust fine. I still want to make it a little nicer but that may just be my mod-itis talking.
Oh yeah I was poking around looking for parts and found this
http://www.ecrater.com/p/13274407/prewired-jazz-bass-control-plate
THe pics make it look OK (other than the mini pots) and it's all of $12 (nearly the same price as just the plate from guitar fetish) but it ships straight from China. I figure it's even money that I'd get a cheap crummy control plate with parts I'd end up replacing, or they'd just steal my identity and never ship something.
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Another happy GOTOH 201 copy owner here, bought mine from ebay 2-3 years ago, I think it was about 20€ or something. I don't really like fender bridges, they seem flimsy to me, even if they just work ok. OCD knocking at my door, I know.
I'd say go buy a metal control plate and install CTS or ALPHA pots on it, those no-name-mini-pots are total crap. The pickups looks like they are humbuckers, so there's no real need for shielding them.
edit: found one Gotoh copy here http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Heavy-Duty-Bass-Bridge-2-1-4-CHROME-/330716708087?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item4d00407cf7
and I think that's the Wilkinson bridge http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wilkinson-Lic-WBBC-Bass-Bridge-Brass-Saddle-Chrome-DHR10223-/250915532728?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item3a6bbb2fb8
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Gotoh 201 is great bridge. It is a higher profile thatn a standard fender...
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Sorry about the crummy cell phone pics, I gotta start bringing my "real" camera with me places.
so I finally had some time to futz with this (and partly just had too much fun playing it to take it apart)
I was wondering what the hole next to the bridge was, it looks like someone used a screwdriver to make the hole for the ground wire. Also the pup routes are pretty clean (the hole itself, there's tons of ...I don't know what, but I gotta clean it out pronto. I thought it might be buffing stuff, but there's none in the control cavity or the front pup hole.) There was a hole above the bridge pup hole. I thought maybe a Jazz-style pup route got enlarged to put these humbuckers in, but they both look too clean to be anything other than stock. The hole I saw was because the black plate around the pup wasn't cut big enough to cover the route hole.
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/2012-04-17145931.jpg)
I got a real J style control plate (OK it's from another copy, but it's better than what I had) you can see how much bigger that is than what mine came with (plus it's actually made of metal and has better components.
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/2012-05-28003037.jpg)
You can see how dark the finish got over the last 30 years. It's nice ash-looking wood, the grain looks really nice(too bad most of it's under the guard plate) I'm having a hard time not sanding it all down (there's like 80 million scratches and dings on here) and just Tru-Oiling the whole thing, but I know if I do that it'll be a loooong time before it's all back in one piece again. Plus I kind of like the orangy color it's darkened to.
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/DSC_6323.jpg)
Oh yeah, it's definitely not the same shape as a "real" Jazz, here's a Fender guardplate sitting on top of it.
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/2012-05-28003614.jpg)
(Ask at the store for used parts enough, and they'll let you pick thru them. Or ask me not to come back...) The neck is totally squared off on the end, and since I've never had a "real" Jazz, I didn't know those were rounded. Not like I want to make mine just like a real one, there are tons of those around. Mine is different, I think it sounds cool and I just plan on making it better than it was, not a more exact copy of a bass that there are thousands of them around. Besides if I was gonna change it more, I'd be buying new parts for it, not rooting around in people's spares bins...
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get the wilkinson. i have one that's replacing a fender bridge and to my ears it makes a difference. plus they are all over ebay for 15 bucks new.
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Dan, that may be a factory ground wire hole. Whether or not it is, no idea why there's no ground wire there now or why it's filled. Not sure those are the original pickups, although I've seen at least one other Hondo II J with what look like the same pickups.
If it were mine, I'd leave the finish as is. Nice patina.
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Personally, I'm a fan of the vintage style "threaded rod" bridge for Fenders. They're cheap, they work great and look like they belong. I've never used the 201, but I've always been a little put off by the aesthetics of it - especially on a bass that has the old school thing happening.
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Guys, I sent him my MIM Fender bridge, he's got that covered for now.
Take a look at his latest post and see if you can figure out that extra hole and whether those are original pickups.
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Missed this one as I've been AWOL rather a lot of late, so welcome, if somewhat late... ;)
The routs look well done and look factory (Max made a comment that he had the "exact same" bass - same pup's Max?) and that area under the bridge looks like there was an earthing wire there (pic is indistinct) by the compression marks on the body - strongly recommend putting one in...
I agree about the fin - nicely aged looking and the grain is nice too...
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Hey guys. I can't say for sure if the pups are the original to this bass, but I've seen other 70's MIJ basses with these.
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/KGrHqQOKjoE3uwecdNtBNNTvUWQ_3.jpg)
This is a "Ventura" branded one from the 70s and I had a "Global" that had very similar pups
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/2639192549_7e0830f346_o.jpg)
Anyway the missing ground wire would explain why it was so noisy. When I did open it up, there were lots of splices and electrical tape on the wiring so who knows what's been done to this thing over the years. I'm going to try to wire the pups it came with into the control panel I got.
As far as the finish, I really like the way it looks, I just don't like the ba-zillion scratches and dings, there's a couple deep scratches, almost gouges in there I'd like to do something with. Maybe I'll try the thick super-glue trick on those. The really nice ambered color is staying though. If I do refinish it (in 6 or 7 years or whenever I'll have time... :rolleyes: ) I'd get amber shellac to try to match the color.
Thanks for all the replies though, and the bridge.
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It might be possible to improve the scratches with the right auto polishing compound.
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It might be possible to improve the scratches with the right auto polishing compound.
Right - and Dr. Bassman posted a method of filling finish scratches with super glue a while back - might be worth searching for.
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One of the gouges in the back.
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/DSC_6345.jpg)
Who knew it was so hard to take a pic of clear superglue laying on clear finish? Anyway I have quite a bit on there, and all I did was the back. I will be trying to level it out in the next couple days when it dries (assuming with the way my luck runs, something will fall onto it and get glued to the back of the guitar in the meantime :rolleyes: )
So speaking of luck, today's adventure was working on the tuners. The stockers, besides looking like pot-metal and not holding tune all that well, buzzed and rattled. THe "elephant ear" part were loose on 3 of them, one so much I could pull it off the tuner shaft. I got a "gift card" as a bonus from work a couple days ago, so I decided to get some tuners. I ordered what I could afford with my bonus (Wilkinson-brand ones, they looked waay better than the stockers) but when they arrived, this is how they looked:
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/2012-05-28141435.jpg)
Now, that ain't right... I called the CS people and they sent me a new set pretty quick,
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/DSC_6342.jpg)
They went the right way but kind of "overlapped" each other, like the shaft holes were 1/2mm too close together or something. I was complaining about working on this to my Dad and he offered to come over with his Dremel tool to help out. Once he got here (and dinner was done and the kids were in bed) he discovered he lost the collett-thingy somewhere, so we couldn't use the power tools to fix it. So I got to spend some quality time with my Dad filing down the edges with...well, files. They fit OK now, other than one of the holes is just too big for the bushing to stay in by itself. It's cool though 'cause I got to work on my bass and BS with my Dad for a couple hours.
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It's hard to tell from your photos, the headstock of your bass must be slightly smaller than a Fender. That's probably why they overlapped. They look fine now.
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that looks pretty good.
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It's hard to tell from your photos, the headstock of your bass must be slightly smaller than a Fender. That's probably why they overlapped. They look fine now.
Dave...! they were lefties...! :o
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Dave...! they were lefties...! :o
I'm talking about the replacement set he got, which still had to be filed down.
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Ahh... just re-read it...
(sloping off to the front garden concrete quarry hell... :sad:) ;)
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Ahh... just re-read it...
(sloping off to the front garden concrete quarry hell... :sad:) ;)
....beset by squirrels.
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Curiously enough, right beside the ski-slope... err... the path in question, there's a six year old oak sapling that was planted by one of those cute little critters - an older one that turned up the same way now resides in a six acre field owned by my buddie down in Devon... :mrgreen:
They have their uses... (no mention of barbies, pur-leese... :o)
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Had another few minutes to work on this, the super glue trick works great. Well as long as I don't try to trim the excess off with a razor blade, that pulled 99% of the glue off, to the point that it didn't look like I filled anything. So I had to do everything twice. It's dead flat now, even though you can see the scratch (years of funk buildup stained the wood in the bottom of the scratch, nothing I tried made it any less noticable so I just filled it and moved on). Hey it's a 30 year old copy bass, I'm not looking for perfect, just better than it was. (And the weird discoloration on the top horn was there when I got it, I tried sanding it but it never got any different looking. Maybe when I get around to taking this back down to bare wood I can fix that.)
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/2012-06-14164516.jpg)
I kinda got crazy with all 5432654 scratches, dents and chunks so the back is nice and flat now. The edges need lots of help but I think I have the procedure down now so it'll go faster. I filled some of the holes on the front. There used to be 2 tug-bars on there, they are long gone but the holes are still there, under the pick guard. I have 4 different colors of wood filler so I tried them all out on the holes to find one that matched the best and filled the holes with that one.. Of course all the holes look competely noticeable now that they're dry, dangit.
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/2012-05-31185603.jpg)
The plan was to drill all 21 of the holes to re-install the hardware (5 for the bridge, and 16 for the tuners) but my girls woke up from their nap before I had time to get out the power tools. Next time, anyway... why do all my projects take so long?
Oh yeah the neck plate is really weird, it's long and narrow. Mine is all corroded and the screws are chewed up. I wanted to get a nice looking one, but it's not regular size so I may end up having to just try to get screws at the hardware store, and polish the damage out or something.
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Looks pretty good to me.
You probably won't be able to find the right size neck plate. You might try some WD40 and steel wool first.
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Does it have to be STEEL steel wool? I do have some of that copper looking stuff on hand (and a TON of those 3M scuffing pads) but I can buy SW when I get (around to) buying my neck screws. I already tried auto buffing compound on the plate and it didn't do anything to it. Maybe if we can find the collett thing for my dad's Dremel that would make the polish job go better. Or, I could just leave the plate alone, and actually finish putting the bass together so I can play it? ??? ;D
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I mentioned steel wool just because it's a time-tested way to get rust off of tools. And even coarse steel wool is relatively fine, copper pads may wind up putting in deep scratches. No harm trying a 3M scuffing pad if it's fine. Buffing compound may help shine it up afterwards, it's not going to get the rust off by itself even with elbow grease or a Dremel.
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Naval Jelly is my first choice for rust removal on chrome. it will quickly remove surface rust without damaging chrome if you are careful not to leave it on too long. 5 minutes or less should do it for surface rust.
There are at least 7 grades of steel wool, bronze wool, etc. from 0000-3, copper and bronze are softer than steel of equal grade. Don't use anything coarser than 000 on chrome, even then scratches will show up that can't be buffed out. IMO you're better off using a fine grade 3m pad or better yet, chrome or metal polish (e.g.magic wadding, semichrome, pigsnot, meguiars or mothers). Rust is softer than steel or chrome so anything that will polish them will remove surface rust. Pitting is a different story, the chrome is gone.
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Good catch, Carlo. I was thinking in terms of steel and cast iron tools, which aren't chromed.
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Good catch, Carlo. I was thinking in terms of steel and cast iron tools, which aren't chromed.
Definitely easier to clean up. I've learned the hard way how delicate chrome is
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I love this place. No attitude about my Goodwill-level gear, like some other forums might. Just good solid advice. Thank you all. (And maybe I should have put this in the project section, huh?)
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Well I figured out why one of the pickups didn't work. I was trying to connect the pups to the new control plate I have, and one of the wires just fell out of the hole in the baseplate. These pups have 3 wires in them (the first weird thing, pretty much every other pup I've worked with had 2 or 4) One of the wires was soldered to the baseplate and the other 2 were just kind of lying inside. I couldn't find the end of the winding wire, either. How much does rewinding a pickup cost, anyway? (more than the whole bass cost, I'm sure) I'm kind of bummed because I actually liked how it sounded. Actually it does seem similar in size to the Gretsch pups I put in my Hofner, and I like how those sound. Or, who is it on here that sells Thunderbuckers? If I'm gonna spend more than what it's worth, I might as well go all out...
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/2012-07-15222518.jpg)
Also, this is why you don't try to drill holes at 3am after working 12 hours... of course I didn't think to mark the drill bit for depth until after I went right thru when drilling the new tuner screw holes. Dangit.
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/2012-07-11115046.jpg)
In my defense, I didn't screw up any of the other ones.
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The wire soldered in the baseplate is the pickup case ground, it should be soldered together with one of the other two wires from the pickup.
There are alot of people that rewind/repair pickups, I think the cheapest I have seen was about 50$ per coil or something like that.
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I ended up having my pickups repaired by www.porterpickups.com. I think I paid $40 to have the one put back together (when he got them, he said he found the ends of the winding, and was able to just re-assemble it) and have both wax potted. I was pretty happy I found this guy, I actually liked how the bass sounds, so instead of changing the pups out for something else, I can just put it all back together. Well, assuming I can figure out how to wire all this back together and have it work... Now I just need some time to actually put the bass back together. Working these 12-hour days (nights actually) and little kids at home kinda cut down on my playtime.
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I hadn't heard of him before. Seems like a reasonable price.
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My crazy summer is wound down now, I got a couple minutes to work on this again. Dave gave me a bridge to replace the ugly one it used to have (thanks again!) I used the ultra-precise method of tracing around the old one, putting the new one in it's place and drilling the new holes. (both bridge plates were the same size, within a couple MM anyway) Either I sneezed when I drilled (5 times, though?) or somebody really messed up where the original one was installed because when I checked it, it was WAAAY off centered.
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/DSC_7392.jpg)
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/DSC_7390.jpg)
I don't remember it being this off when I bought the thing. I took it back off, got out some string and the tape measure and marked out where it should be (34" from the nut anyway) I plugged the new set of holes and will measure it all up again BEFORE I drill some more.
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/DSC_7394.jpg)
This would be why I try to fix (notice I said, "try" ;D ) $99 instruments and not anything that was valuable. Of course if it had cost more, it probably wouldn't need any work to begin with, right?
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/DSC_7397.jpg)
I at least got the cavities shielded. I've been working on rewiring it, but since I never worked with pickups with 3 wires before, it's going about as well as the bridge install.
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check to see if the neck shifts back and forth as that may have had something to do with it also.
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check to see if the neck shifts back and forth as that may have had something to do with it also.
That went through my mind but then I looked at where the original bridge was in relation to the bridge pup. Can't believe how far off it is.
I'd definitely find where the neck is in relation to the pup routes by using a straight edge and drawing lines on the body extending the edges of the neck. Center the neck to the routes as much as possible if there's enough slop in the neck pocket . Then redraw the neck extension lines and find a true centerline. Locate the new bridge holes parallel to the frets, NOT the pup routes.
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Thanks for that explination, that made more sense than anything else I've read so far.
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I measured everything 42 times (including a Jazz bass I borrowed from a friend) and got the bridge attatched. The neck didn't move, I made sure it was solid (the ends of it are completely square, unlike a "real" Jazz, it's snugged right up to the corners and screwed down tight) The bridge SHOULD be right now.
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/2012-11-06130043.jpg)
Now I'm tackling the wiring- the control plate is wired for 2-lead pups, and what I have are 3-wire ones. Or at least they look that way... I started stripping the insulation to solder them together and discovered one of the pups' black wires has no metal wire inside the insulation!
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp360/dannew2008/h2/2012-11-06130133.jpg)
Dangit it's always something, isn't it? I'm putting this aside until my next day off and will just play my buddy's J for a while. Unless he doesn't ask for it back. ;D
Oh yeah, the plastics on this thing are really thin and if I put the new control plate where it should be, there's gonna be a gap between it and the guardplate. That and it could have been cut a little better (hey if I'm gonna change half of this out, I might as well do everything, right?) A "real" Jazz guard isn't close to being the right shape, do any of you have recommendations for getting a new guard cut out? I know somebody does it but I can't remember which company. Also I'm sure it'll cost more than I paid for this bass, but it'll look so much better with a nicer guard.