She's So F*ck*ng Beautiful ..........

[Droombolus]

This was supposed to be a topic of love, not war ..... so go play with your fighter planes somewhere else  .... 

The dog on the shirt or the bass?

It's on the T Chris and I've got two of them at home ...... number 3, the one in the middle, died last month ....



 

[uwe]

  As war planes go, the F-104 was a peacenik dove, unable to be actually used should worst come to worst. It just looked cool, but to my eyes never very martial or intimidating.

No comparison to an SG Supreme in  "schwarz-rot-gold"  which is both a formidable weapon and a beauty! Actually, the maple top which makes up about half of the body, give those things a lively snap.

[Highlander]

Sorry for the loss of your spaniel... they come and they go, Droom...

To wrap up the F104 debate, maybe...

To me, the F104 is possibly the most beautiful military aircraft I have ever seen flying so I have had the pleasure of hearing that glorious J79 howl...
The only thing I have enjoyed more was possibly the twin Avons in a English Electric Lightning, the four (non reheat) Olympus' in Vulcans and (hands down winner, although the B1 comes DAMN CLOSE) is being far too close to the four Olympus engines on Concorde as she rolled down the runway at Heathrow back in '79...
I can assure you that 100 tons of aluminium at full thrust is my idea of HEAVY METAL... Lemmy does not even come close...
Come to think of it F16's and "Eurofighter" are pretty cool too...
There is/was a German F104G in a private display not far from here so I have "touched" one... and yes, I bought "Captain Lockheed" when it came out...
So, I have an avation (civilian - avionics) background  but now work out of that trade. One of my working coleagues is an ex RAF engine fitter who was based in Germany for some time and actually worked on "Widowmakers", which he loved dearly - although he was primarily an F4 engineer (his desktop pic is him in the pilot seat with a clear-blue flame coming out of the back - a very big grin on his face!) and finished up his career in Cyprus on Chinooks but the F104 was his favourite aircraft to work on...
The last one I saw flying was in the mid seventies and was Belgian Airforce...
Germany lost about 30% of their aircraft but Canada lost 50%...! Spain did not lose a single one of them...!
A major issue was a lack of knowledge - ie inexperienced flight crew, especially with Germany and Canada, when the 104 was an unforgiving "pilot's" aircraft - Give any regular driver that has never exceeded the speed limit a high-spec muscle-car or a thoroughbred top-of-the-line sports car, put them on the track, and tell them to "floor it, pedal-to-the-metal, boy!"
In it's time, the F104 was the highest and fastest flying aircraft in the sky... End... of... story...

Did any F-104 ever have aerial combat anywhere in the world?

Yes...
With the USAF in 'Nam 66-67 - disasterous and withdrawn...
Recorded as being the first aircraft to have a (disputed) claimed "kill" in the 65 India/Pakistan war - the first Mach 2 "kill" recorded... they lost 2 to Indian Mig21's in '71
Greatest combat moment (from Wiki) ...

On 13 January 1967, four Republic of China (Taiwan) Air Force F-104G aircraft engaged a formation of 12 MiG-19s of the People's Liberation Army Air Force over the disputed island of Kinmen. Maj Shih-Lin Hu and Capt Bei-Puo Shih each shot down one People's Liberation Army Air Force MiG-19. This marked the first F-104 combat victory in the world...

G for Germany...!

[uwe]

Spain has better weather. Hardly any rain, no fog, little winds ...

But it is true that Erich Hartmann thought that the post-war Luftwaffe had too little fresh jet flying experience due to the disarmed phase after the war which lasted about 10 years. In the mid fifties, the Luftwaffe either consisted of fresh-faced kids or old-hands, whose only jet plane experience - if any -dated back to the Me 262. Going from the Me 262 to the F-104 was quite an evolution leap - Hartmann would have preferred to have Sabres first so German pilots could make the transition gradually over two generatiosn of jets. He wasn't heard and the rest is history.

I never liked the Starfighter. Silly name and those stubby wings - it looked like the thalidomide children whose era it shared I thought back then. The Phantom was ugly, but in a good, nasty "don"t mess with me!" way. I thought the Tornados looked nice and a lot of the Russian stuff, especially the MIG 29, a few of which (30 or so) flew in the reunified German Luftwaffe post 1989 and were lauded by western pilots for their uncomplicated and good-natured handling.



There was even talk of building them in license from the Russians, but the deal (the Russians were eager to do it) fell through due to the European military industry cartel advocating strongly against it. Fact was that they had nothing to offer as tried and trusted, cheap yet state of the art as the MIG 29 at the time. They were so hyper about the competition from the cold that they saw to it contractually that the surviving MIG 29s had to be given away for free to the Polish airforce after the introduction of the Eurofighter in 2004.

[OldManC]

I never liked the Starfighter. Silly name and those stubby wings - it looked like the thalidomide children whose era it shared I thought back then.

I worked at a radio station in the late 80's with a guy who had one arm like that. Poor guy's nickname was Flipper. Even HE said it! Very different time, those late 80's...

[uwe]

I'm from the Thalidomide era - born 1960. Remember how it was advertised as a light pain relief for pregnancy pains at the time. My mom never took it (it only has the disastrous effects during certain growth phases of the embryo, it doesn't affect the DNA, Thalidomide parents do not have Thalidomide children). Thalidomide children were a frequent sight back then (in Germany they were called Contergan-Kinder, after Thalidomide's German marketing name).

Thalidomide is still being quietly produced today (under a new name). Why? Because it has this freak effect of being able to halt leprosy in late stages. So the German company that produces it actually ships it for free to leper centers in the world (they don't make a fuss about it, it's not a product they are proud of, call the free leprosy treatment their penance ...), many of them in Brazil where leprosy is still an issue among the poorest of the poor. And while the packaging is filled with written warnings and signs (for analphabets) that the drug may not be taken during pregnancy, lepers of course make love too, get pregnant, take the medicine against advice (to halt the disesase, not to kill pain) and voilà you have a new generation of Brazilian Thalidomide kids. Which raises a wasps' nest of ethical questions about treatment of adults vs. protection of unborn children, abortion or not and whether someone with leprosy should have unprotected sex or not. None of which are easy to answer, at least for me.

From an SG Supreme to the Starfighter to Thalidomide - this forum never ceases to amaze through sheer eclecticism!!!

[ilan]

I'm from the Thalidomide era - born 1960

I was born in '62, I remember those kids, they were not a rare sight over here too. There was one in my kindergarten class who was missing two fingers (middle and ring) in each hand.

I think Thomas Quasthoff is the most famous Thalidomide kid.

[uwe]

You're right, yet funnily enough it never occurred to me until now that his handicap was down to Thalidomide even though he shows the classic symtoms of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8ICOyxlYdI&feature=related


A girl studied law with me who was a Thalidomide victim too - she was radically leftist, a woman's libber, a very vocal Thalidomide activist, snapped at you if you offered help ("Can do it myself, thank you!"), but I always liked her. And later on became an international law professor in Berkeley, California. I met her again a few years ago, she's happily married now, has children and, yes, smiles at you sweetly if you offer help to her now!

[Pilgrim]

I have a good friend who is a Thalidomide baby - his name is Tom Willis, and he has only a fraction of one arm with a couple of small fingers.  He's a very cool guy and a long-time video producer.  I worked with him on a number of video projects in the 90's. He also drives using foot controls.

His website is http://www.tomsfeet.com

His current effort is Pitch for Awareness, in which he travels around the country and throws out the first pitch at various major league ballparks.  His goal is to highlight what people with disabilities CAN do, rather than focus on what they can't do.  He has thrown out the first pitch at about 16 MLB parks so far.

Here's a photo of him throwing out the first pitch at a Padres game....

[Daniel_J]

I don't know how it goes for you guys ups there, but here in Brazil Thalidomide is not prohibited, and is still recomended by some doctors not only for treatment of leprosy but a number of different diseases like cancer, lupus, leukemia, vitiligo, mouth ulcer, tuberculosis, and others.

Only in 1997 that prohibition of Thalidomide prescription for pregnant patients became law. Though since 1982 there is a law that grants food pensions for Thalidomide deformation victims.
Still the lack of information, including that of health care professionals, and self-medication has been appointed as cause for a second and third generations of Thalidomide babies here in Brazil.

In fact, a good friend of mine from college who is one year older than me (I'm 30 BTW) is a second generation baby. Her left arm had to be amputated at elbow length because she was born with a heavely atrophied forearm.
But she is so cool about it that most people don't even realize she has that issue. Then again, maybe it's because she is so gorgeous that people get distracted contemplating her beauty (outer and inner) before they realize she's missing an arm.
The title of this thread is what guys (and girls too) usually say about her...

[Aussie Mark]

Spain has better weather. Hardly any rain, no fog, little winds ...

And the rain they do have falls mainly on the plain.  Or should that be plane, given where this thread went?

[OldManC]

Where the hell is that "like" button when I really need it?

[Barklessdog]

Time for the German Sparkle Party!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN1lcTXqXAo&feature=related