The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bill's Shop: Projects, Mods & Repairs => Topic started by: Denis on August 23, 2010, 03:34:24 PM
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Okay, here are some pics. I found out from the previous owner of the body that it had been routed for an AFTERMARKET CUSTOM P-bass neck, NOT a Fender neck. I wish he had mentioned that nice little detail in the auction. Hence, you will see that the genuine Fender neck sits closer to the edge of the body rather than snugly down into the pocket. This leaves a gap of approximately .375". Rather than drilling 4 additional holes in the neck and moving it down, drilling the new holes in the body seems like the smarter idea since the body has already been decapitated. Thoughts?
Fender P-bass neck.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/Fenderbird/Picture15.jpg)
Fender neck numbers. Made my J. Torres.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/Fenderbird/Picture18.jpg)
Headstock
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/Fenderbird/Picture17.jpg)
Body, pre-neck upon arrival (thanks for pointing out this now-expensive project, Uwe!)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/Picture10.jpg)
Headstock with tuners!
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/Fenderbird/P8230004a.jpg)
Body with neck mounted.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/Fenderbird/P8230005a.jpg)
Assembled
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/Fenderbird/P8230017a.jpg)
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Rather than drilling 4 additional holes in the neck and moving it down, drilling the new holes in the body seems like the smarter idea since the body has already been decapitated. Thoughts?
Very nice catch!
I would also choose to drill new holes in the body and leave the neck as it is.
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One of JAE's Fenderbirds, this IS a Fender neck
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/2010%20Fenderbird/FENDERBIRD_RSG_3.jpg)
It will be a little easier to dowel the Fender neck and drill thru the body holes than to try and line up the original holes in the neck. Aftermarket necks are generally sold w/o holes. I have 2 from the Fender custom shop that came w/o holes. The important thing to me would be having the neck in proper alignment w/the bridge I was gonna keep for myself, again easier to align the neck and drill pilot holes. If it was for a customer it would be different.
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Make sure about the intonation as well. If you move the neck down to the body will it still be the proper scale?
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Hmmm, it's good to have friends like you guys! I wonder what the proper scale is for this, since it's a hybrid. Would it be different than a complete Thunderbird (aren't they 34 1/2"?). Where would I take EXACT measurements?
Thanks!
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34 is correct, I take 17.5 from middle of 12th fret to front edge of G saddle leaving room to intonate forward and back. It's probably correct if the job WAS done by someone competent.
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Tried to upload pics but Photobucket is busy choking itself.
From the inside of the nut to the front edge of the bridge it measures 34 1/16".
From the center of the 12th fret to the front edge of the bridge it measures 17 1/16".
From the center of the 12th fret to the CENTER of the bridge cavity it measures 17 3/4".
The previous owner told me that a luthier in NYC made the body modifications so it's possible I might be able to track him down.
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Hey, I'm an idiot! Wrong about that 12th fret measurement. It's 17! Obviously half of 34. That said seems like the scale is a little long on yours to zero in intonation. How close can you get the G saddle to the front end of the bridge? That should be no more than around 16 3/4" from the 12th fret. Somebody please keep me from making a complete fool of myself!
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How about buying a Warmoth 8 string neck and bridge and coming over to the Dark side....IF you dare....... Pus they have those crazy extended fingerboards so it would hide the space.
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Well, the Fenderbird is off to Carlo for some woodwork and refit! Thanks, Carlo!
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Let's hope he remembers half of 34 is 17.
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Man, some beautiful mahogany! Do no harm was my guiding thought. The neck was 1/16" under sized compared to the pocket so I decided to shim the pocket with glued in maple veneer. I could have cut a new pocket but it would have involved routing an oversized hole, inlaying a piece of mahogany and rerouting the pocket. Seemed like overkill and no guarantee the pocket would be in the right place.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/DENIS%20FBIRD/DSC02268-1.jpg)
Trimming. Note that the screw holes are not drilled symmetrically. Denis wanted to use the original neck holes and redrill the body. I thought I could just move the holes in their relative positions toward the bridge 21/64" which was the gap between the end of the neck and the pocket. I used a drill bit to determine the gap. Have to rethink since the holes ain't right.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/DENIS%20FBIRD/DSC02271.jpg)
Turned out the original route was also off center and the strings would not line up with the bridge properly. So I doubled up on the treble side and the neck end of the pocket and remove the bass side shim. Used the neck as a clamp and strings as tensioners and to check alignment.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/DENIS%20FBIRD/DSC02274.jpg)
Since the original holes were off I screwed these cut down screws into the neck using a vise grips pliers and pressed it into the neck pocket. Then drilled the new holes using the indentations from the screw points. And forgot to take pictures...ever notice how every '70s fender neck seems to have D Torres stamped on it?
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/DENIS%20FBIRD/DSC02290.jpg)
Trimmed shim and neck dry fitted, no shim on bass side.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/DENIS%20FBIRD/DSC02292.jpg)
Stained with minwax polyshades. Denis wants to keep the mojo so not a lot of time was spent getting a perfect match. This was basically a functional repair. No neck wiggle, the bass now intonates and plays really well with super low action for a 30 year plus neck with no fret work.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/DENIS%20FBIRD/DSC02297.jpg)
The Mark of the Beast
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/DENIS%20FBIRD/DSC02333.jpg)
Thanks for trusting your 'bird to me, Denis. It'll be on its way back to you Monday.
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Neat work... what was your opinion of the sound...?
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Neat work... what was your opinion of the sound...?
Thanks. The 60's pups I've been testing seem to have more tone variation and output, in all fairness the strings don't look very new on this 'bird. It looks like the neck pup has been rewired, non Gibson cable, so maybe that's it.
...I'm going to adjust the pickup height and may have to shim the neck to get the pups closer to the strings. That may help.
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Thanks. The 60's pups I've been testing seem to have more tone variation and output, in all fairness the strings don't look very new on this 'bird. It looks like the neck pup has been rewired, non Gibson cable, so maybe that's it.
...I'm going to adjust the pickup height and may have to shim the neck to get the pups closer to the strings. That may help.
Denis' has the 70s sidewinder pickups, so that might account for some of the sound differences too. I forget the specs but one pickup is like half the impedance of the other, and one has a non-braided cable (grey plastic insulation or something) to help differentiate it. They were wired in a series arrangement in the original circuit.
Really nice work! What a cool bass 8) And that trick with threading the screws in, making indentations, etc.. is one of those (http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/smilies/icon_doh.gif) moments - I've needed to do something like that before and never thought to try that. Great tip! (literally :rimshot: )
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Great job Carlo!
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Denis' has the 70s sidewinder pickups, so that might account for some of the sound differences too. I forget the specs but one pickup is like half the impedance of the other, and one has a non-braided cable (grey plastic insulation or something) to help differentiate it. They were wired in a series arrangement in the original circuit.
Really nice work! What a cool bass 8) And that trick with threading the screws in, making indentations, etc.. is one of those (http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/smilies/icon_doh.gif) moments - I've needed to do something like that before and never thought to try that. Great tip! (literally :rimshot: )
I cranked up the height on the pups and the sound improved greatly. The neck pup has the grey pvc. The bridge pup seems quite a bit weaker so it all begins to make sense. The series winding is weird!
Thanks, I'd considered the screw tip thing before but this was the first time I tried it. They're bridge screws so they go in fairly easily but stay in place. And they are really sharp so it's very easy to get location points. I'm sure it won't be the last time I use them.
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Those kind of pictures makes me all wet! Nice job and even nicer tricks there!
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Damn, Carlo, that's awesome! The trick with the screws was a great idea! And thanks so much for the repair job. Looks great and I can't wait to get it back!
Somewhere on here I read that the Bicentennial pups were different than the '60s so Chromium's info is good to keep in mind when I'm playing it. I wonder if changing that wiring to/from the detuned one will make a difference? Thoughts?
I suspected from the beginning the neck pup may be damaged because the cover is dented so I'm glad to know it's sounding like it should even if it has less output.
Once again, the repair job is terrific. If you need anything I can do from up here, Carlo, let me know!
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Glad you like it Denis, the screw thing just popped into my head though I probably saw it somewhere and forgot about it. I knew the RI pups are different. I loved my white '77, that's why I was so surprised at the sound of yours before I raised the pups. It sounds good now, needs some strings. I don't know about changing the wiring, I keep thinking they must have had a reason. I'm sure someone can shed some light. Thanks for the offer of help, you have already and I appreciate it!
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Not sure how yours is wired Denis, but my 76 was rewired at some point with the pickups in parallel like a 60s or modern bird. I haven't messed with it at all, as I LOVE its sound. Then again, when I hear clips of Mark's and Chris' 70s birds sounding killer (pickups in series) I sometime think about reverting it back to original!
Here's a shot I saved of a 70s pickup's innards - I think it was "slinkp" that shared this photo:
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/thunderbird/tbird_pu_uncovered_front_small.jpg)
You can see the sidewinder config - sorta like a mudbucker, but not as overwound...
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Nice work! I dig it. Functional.....
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Here it is, home, with the new pg and sans thumbrest. :)
By the way, the case it's sitting in is the Epi case my Japanese T-bird was shipped in. It's different than the cases for the Korean Ep- T-bird cases. It's much deeper, for one thing.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/Fenderbird/P9300003a.jpg)
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Looks nice ! Wish I bought it. ;) I take it the screw pattern lined up ?
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Nice guard, Scott! Hey Denis is the pull tab on the case compartment embossed TKL?
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Looks nice ! Wish I bought it. ;) I take it the screw pattern lined up ?
The center top one under the neck pup was a hair off (and I mean a little) but I was able to enlarge the hole slightly. The rest were perfect! Thanks again!
Now, to work on that Bi logo. :)
Hey Denis is the pull tab on the case compartment embossed TKL?
Just looked and it sure is!
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Now, to work on that Bi logo. :)
What approach are you going to take to apply that to the guard? etching/backfill? transfer?
That's a mean lookin' bass- love it! 8)
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That turned out great Denis! Nice work Carlo!
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What approach are you going to take to apply that to the guard? etching/backfill? transfer?
That's a mean lookin' bass- love it! 8)
Thanks! Scott gave me some pg scraps to test various methods.
Among the possibilities are:
Laser etch
Decal on clear
Pad printing
Rub off transfer
I thought it might be worth trying some sort of manual etching but that would leave a rough bottom. Filling it with some sort of paint or colored epoxy would cover that up though.
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Possibly a stick on transfer and engraving thru it, remove the transfer and fill the lines with paint, latex or oil base maybe.
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great job Carlo. thanks for sharing Denis.
FYI. this lady does outstanding work with laser etching. her name is Sandy.
http://www.precisiondesignin.com/about-me.php
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great job Carlo. thanks for sharing Denis.
FYI. this lady does outstanding work with laser etching. her name is Sandy.
http://www.precisiondesignin.com/about-me.php
Excellent, I will call or email her!
Thanks for the contact!
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Sandy has etched about 100 items for me not counting providing samples when we were prototyping product and it has been my experience she is very reasonable.
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Excellent, I will call or email her!
Thanks for the contact!
let me know what she can do. I need an Tbird for my bach bird pickguard.
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Finally got around to taking a photo of the Fenderbird with the NOS Bicentennial pick guard added.
Technically, I like to think it should be the one with '76' in the eagle's tail (since the pots are all '76 pots) but it's what I could do at the time. No WAY would I pay for the pickguard on eBay right now.
I like it with the tiny bit of color the red/white and blue eagle adds. :)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/DSC00393a.jpg)
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Cool!
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Finally got around to taking a photo of the Fenderbird with the NOS Bicentennial pick guard added.
Technically, I like to think it should be the one with '76' in the eagle's tail (since the pots are all '76 pots) but it's what I could do at the time. No WAY would I pay for the pickguard on eBay right now.
I like it with the tiny bit of color the red/white and blue eagle adds. :)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/DSC00393a.jpg)
I agree with the color. It is a nice compliment. . . .I like it much more on this bass than the original dark ones.
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Here's a shot I saved of a 70s pickup's innards - I think it was "slinkp" that shared this photo:
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/thunderbird/tbird_pu_uncovered_front_small.jpg)
You can see the sidewinder config - sorta like a mudbucker, but not as overwound...
Yup, that was mine. I since sold it to dadagoboi. Hey Carlo, did you ever get that re-wound?
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I sent it to Steve, turned out to be bad lead wire and he fixed it. That was lucky, he said there would have been no way to remove the bobbins from the epoxy without destroying them. Haven't put it in a bass yet.
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Cool! Let me know how it works out.