The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: Grog on December 22, 2019, 08:34:23 AM
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Over 4 years ago, I posted this:
Henry, if you're listening, you have four years to prepare yourself for the 20/20 reissue............
A 2020 20/20 reissue only seems logical. Make it Bluetooth or something so it doesn't sell again..........
"The Visionary 2020 20/20, the Future of Fugly Today!"
I’m still waiting! Not a peep from the new management! If they produce at least five of them, I’d bet that they’re sell at least four!
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They need to make twenty of those. I’ll buy the last one from that series.
#20/20
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#13 is my lucky number. I’ll go for that one....... Uwe will have to get #1. He started this whole mess!
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Since #13 is already spoken for I'll sadly have to pass...
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@Chris P. will have to approach JC and Cesar about this at NAMM next month. I'm sure he'll be able to convince them ;)
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I will merrily take #2
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I will ask!!! had the same thought:)
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@Chris P. will have to approach JC and Cesar about this at NAMM next month. I'm sure he'll be able to convince them ;)
It wouldn’t surprise me to find out that they were totally unaware this bass was ever produced. This could be the “Moderne” of Gibson basses. A few minor tweaks & some social media buzz, this thing could sell........ School ‘em Chris!
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I won't be buying it unless it is a Van den Broek Signature Model with the following features:
- waterproof (against dam breaks),
- parts of the hardware missing (reputedly purloined by Germans),
- vintage burn marks and ash smudges (so-called "Rotterdam storage mojo")/state of the art electronic shielding against radio signals.
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I will ask!!! had the same thought:)
It wouldn’t surprise me to find out that they were totally unaware this bass was ever produced. This could be the “Moderne” of Gibson basses. A few minor tweaks & some social media buzz, this thing could sell........ School ‘em Chris!
Chris, seriously, if anyone can convince them, you can!
Grog is probably right, they probably have no knowledge of the bass, or of its small cult following. But Gibson does own Steinberger, so the technical knowledge is there.
A short run of 20 20/20s in 2020 ought to sell out.
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I wonder if Ned Steinberger would let them und if they still have all the necessary IP.
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I wonder if Ned Steinberger would let them und if they still have all the necessary IP.
Gibson owns Steinberger, remember? Any trademarks that exist would belong to Gibson. There were design patents on some of the elements but those are long expired.
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I won't be buying it unless it is a Van den Broek Signature Model with the following features:
- waterproof (against dam breaks),
- parts of the hardware missing (reputedly purloined by Germans),
- vintage burn marks and ash smudges (so-called "Rotterdam storage mojo")/state of the art electronic shielding against radio signals.
:toast: :rimshot: :mrgreen:
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I'd buy one. Oh, yes.
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I will ask!!!
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I will ask!!!
I don't seriously expect them to do it, but it's worth a try to ask.
If you do talk to them, please do ask them about the US Epiphone reissues they mentioned to you at last year's show.
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I talked to a Dutch Gibson guy. He told me the Casino and a solid body guitar will appear soon, but no basses yet. Of course I will ask!
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Could be a good time to plant a seed of thought towards a 50th anniversary bicentennial Thunderbird for 2026. Try to ask for more custom colors too. You could try asking for all kinds of things and just seeing what sticks. I could think of all kinds of stuff. New Grabbers in Grabber blue, triumph basses with bursts and flame tops and original spec reissue EBs with real mudbuckers. Any of that would be great.
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Well here we are, officially 2020! Happy New year to everyone at the LBO......
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And back to you as well!
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Happy New Year to all of you!
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Happy 2020 !!
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I'd buy one too, can I have it with a Luftwaffe Tarnanstrich-fin?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-676-7969A-25%2C_Flugzeug_Heinkel_He_177_mit_Tarnanstrich.jpg)
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I'd buy one too, can I have it with a Luftwaffe Tarnanstrich-fin?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-676-7969A-25%2C_Flugzeug_Heinkel_He_177_mit_Tarnanstrich.jpg)
did you just find the picture randomly looking for the camo pattern or do you have any idea what that plane is?
I like to think of myself as reasonably knowledgeable about warbirds and I've never seen one like that
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Another German Wunderwaffe that never really was: A Heinkel 177, you're forgiven for not knowing it, only a few were built and their operational record was lousy - engines would catch fire (crews bitterly nick-named it "Reichsfeuerzeug" - literally "cigarette lighter of the Reich"). It was the Reich's (yet again) failed attempt at a long range bomber; irrational things like making a plane of that size fit for dive bombing (a German obsession because we lacked the raw materials to produce enough bombs for carpet bombing) protracted its development.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_177
It was kinda cool-looking though, but then a lot of Luftwaffe prototypes and limited production inventions were, adding to the popular Luftwaffe mystique and the manifold "could have altered how the war went"-legends. The simple truth however is, you don't need smart and ahead-of-their-time inventions randomly scattered to win a war, but a reliable construction that can be mass produced easily. Liberty ships, Sherman tanks and B-17 Flying Fortresses win a war, just as long as there is enough of them. Ok, maybe the atom bomb was an exception to that rule! ;)
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someone once told me world war 2 wasn't won in Normandy, or even in Stalingrad, it was won in Detroit
(i'm guessing there is a soviet equivalent)
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Very true. Stalin was smart (and when it came to implementation: ruthless) enough to have Soviet production facilities moved into the East of the huge country, the Urals and even farther away from endangered Moscow - well out of reach of the German aggressors (see, I told you that lack of long range bombers was dumb of the Luftwaffe!). And they were effective. Communism or not, the USSR could produce a T-34 or Stormovik by the end of the war at a fraction of the production hours (and the cost) they had to spend at the beginning of the war. In Germany, it was the other way around: Everything took longer and longer to produce, became more complicated (was either over-engineered by design or had to be over-engineered to compensate for lack of raw materials) and more expensive. One King Tiger tank took as long to produce as 10 T-34s (and probably 20 Sherman tanks).
Russia and the US kept rolling things out - with a focus on the no frills doable - en masse to continuously feed their ever-hungry war machinery while the Reich was erratically scrambling for "inventions" and "quality over quantity" - with diminishing returns as the war progressed.
At no point in its short history was the Third Reich ever equipped to sustain a protracted war. Hitler himself pushed for an early start of WW II in the late 30ies - when Germany was not yet quite ready for it, it takes longer than six years to build a military might of the size a belligerent system like the Third Reich would require -, because he believed the forecasts of economists that within only a few years Allied war preparations and production would dwarf Germany's efforts. As such Blitzkrieg was not only a tactic, but an economic and strategic sheer necessity. And once the Blitzkrieg successes against more or less immediate geographic neighbors were over (yet the war still going on with other opponents well out of reach of Germany's military clout), so was the Reich's long term fate sealed.
So much the better for it! :mrgreen:
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Could be a good time to plant a seed of thought towards a 50th anniversary bicentennial Thunderbird for 2026. Try to ask for more custom colors too. You could try asking for all kinds of things and just seeing what sticks. I could think of all kinds of stuff. New Grabbers in Grabber blue, triumph basses with bursts and flame tops and original spec reissue EBs with real mudbuckers. Any of that would be great.
I think the Grabber would have to be pink, if you want to keep up with the times.
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Chris spoke with JC yesterday.
JC said it was a very good idea to do a 20/20 reissue in 2020.
But I don't think he was too serious, from what Chris told me.
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It sure would be a marketing event. What probably kills it is that the 20/20 was just too obscure as a model, doesn't fit the mold of what people expect from Gibson und that paddle look instruments have not exactly seen a resurgence. Oh, und of course it's a bass.
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Much like the Flying V, it was misunderstood when it was introduced. The Flying V was reissued around ten years after it was introduced, the 20/20 is still waiting after over 30 years. (That should tell me something!) I noticed this Gibson guitar stand at Sweetwater yesterday. Notice any similarities?
(https://i.imgur.com/tNf51T3.jpg)
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But. . . .we are waiting for the 4 string version :rolleyes:
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I interviewed JC on video - that will follow later. He came up to me swearing in Dutch, cos he lived in The Netherlands for a while. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
At the end of my interview I asked him: It's 2020. Time to reissue the 20/20? Bass (*)? Of course he didn't know about the 20/20, so I showed a pic and he said: 'of course: we should do this! In Orange, the Dutch colour.'
Afterwards I showed him the pic again and he got a guy from R&D and said: 'Look, we should make some of these.'.
Like Rob said: I don't take such comments with a grain/pinch of salt but with a truckload of it. People say a lot, especially on such trade shows, without doing some research or whatever.
That evening I was at the House Of Blues with Jen of Souldier Straps for the She Rocks Awards. Amazing! I saw Suzi Quatro play, after getting an award by Cherie Currie of the Runaways. Tal Wilkenfeld played. Amazing to see Linda Perry play and talk. And she played some songs acoustic, like Beautiful by Christina Aquilera. which she wrote. Lizzy Hale of Halestorm played with the houseband with Divinity Roxx on bass and besides the award she got an extra speech by JC who handed her a special Explorer. In the gig she used two Explorers too, as always.
I went to the bathroom, and while washing my hands someone punched my back quite hard. I'm not really into meeting other men at toilets, but it was JC. He said: 'I showed the bass to some guys and we should do that.' Next day I told him I know Rob of The Gibson Bass Book and that he owns a 20/20, for measurements... The last meeting was like in three seconds, cos he was busy.
So still I don't really believe it, but it was nice to talk to him, haha! I guess he's forgotten it already....
(*) please don't hate me, I said it's a bodyless, headless kinda bass, knowing it's of course not headless. Stupid remark of me.
And the drunk-ish House of Blues pic:
(https://myalbum.com/photo/j6ETZYrC9keM/360.jpg)
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We ...
are ...
nothing ....
less ...
than ...
breathless/atemlos/ademloos ...
Chris!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsekaPjrtK8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9S6C2JZPGY
I haven't been this excited since boarding Tante Ju with my Economy/coach ticket in 1940!
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/39/21/3e/39213e190200c251bc13664f20cf8df7.jpg)
(Re the picture: In a humanitarian gesture, grateful German volunteers donate bicycles to The Netherlands during a surprise visit.)
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Haha, that last pic is great!
But still: I think he's forgotten it, the whole management will say no to the strange paddle or whatever reason. But I promised to ask and I did!
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Good work, Chris! I also would be surprised if they do it, and I'm not surprised they never heard of it before. But you never know.
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Well, at least it's a very cool story! :toast:
Thanx Chris.
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I would't give up, though. Certainly, stranger things have happened.
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I solemnly herewith swear to buy one. Lawyer's affirmation! (Always the most elegant lie ...)
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Well, at least it's a very cool story! :toast:
Thanx Chris.
I can't find anything unusual or noteworthy about it:
1. A Dutchman travels. +
2. Drinks too much. +
3. Loses general inhibition and, consequently, control. ++
4. Talks nonsense and, inevitably, leaves everyone confused. ++
Seems like standard procedure to me. :popcorn:
Seriously, Chris, you have already gotten impressively far! And if Gibson doesn't do it, threaten them with Herr Wilfer doing it! It'll only take a few changes here and there - and perhaps some litigation?
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/09/24/business/24FORGOTTEN/merlin_161372895_fb10dad5-4856-4678-bc4b-b041f7291fb8-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale)
Intrödücing ze Warwick BESCHLAGNAHME/BESLAGLEGGING Zwanzig/Twintig:
(http://warwick.de/warwick/data/Warwick.de/Framus/CS/Nobby%20Meidel/CO_031405W250GDAQTWSP_01_15.jpg)
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:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
But yes, your explanations sounds exactly as my NAMM :D
And yes too: a small step from the Nobby Meidel to the 20/20!!
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;D ;D ;D
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
But yes, your explanations sounds exactly as my NAMM :D
And yes too: a small step from the Nobby Meidel to the 20/20!!
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Interesting story & thanks for asking! Build it & they will come! I think we have sold at least five if they do build any....
(Any adult beverages served at this event?)
(https://i.imgur.com/7lRv72S.jpg)
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I would't give up, though. Certainly, stranger things have happened.
Yes, like Gibson actually launching that thing back in the day!
At the end of my interview I asked him: It's 2020. Time to reissue the 20/20? Bass (*)? Of course he didn't know about the 20/20, so I showed a pic and he said: 'of course: we should do this! In Orange, the Dutch colour.'
He should visit LBO too for inspiration. Wouldn't the 20/20 look great with chinabuckers, a bar bridge an blue to orange clownburst? :mrgreen:
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JC is in The Netherlands tomorrow. I asked two Dutch Gibson guys, in different locations to remind him :mrgreen:
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The plot thickens! 😜
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Maybe he thinks: wow, people really want it.
And then there will be a 3000 dollar reissue with black hardware - oh shit, that was already the case - and nobody buys it.
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Next thing you know Eastwood presents a half assed tribute. :o
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PJ
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JC is in The Netherlands tomorrow. I asked two Dutch Gibson guys, in different locations to remind him :mrgreen:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c5/f2/5e/c5f25e35edf45e2e51400614f3fce0fa.jpg)
Tsk, tsk, tsk ... hardy little dambuilders, diese Holländer ...
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/92/90/ff/9290ff8e540cb2f64287357d0de49f17.jpg)
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Maybe he thinks: wow, people really want it.
And then there will be a 3000 dollar reissue with black hardware - oh shit, that was already the case - and nobody buys it.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/GjbEQveYtjsAw/giphy.gif)
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PJ
Let's hope not.
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Build it and they will come...……………….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN1SBdOPS60
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My contact wrote me this, after meeting JC:
'Unfortunately no 20/20. The company wants to do a lot of things, but it only makes sense if the modernisation of systems and factories is done. This year is about further improving quality, enlarge production to avoid waiting lists and new software and IT systems.'
This was the kind of answer I expected but we Gibsonites tried!!!
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Thanks for putting it out there! If we don’t ask, they can’t say no.......
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(https://aisvox-a.akamaihd.net/masters/299550/800x450/sylvie-van-der-vaart-traenen-beim-interview.jpg)
JAMMER!!!
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If that's Kate Middleton, she looks quite fetching in that photo. Or if it's not Kate Middleton, same difference.
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A Dutch country(wo)man of Herr Dekker, who made off to the South-East for football, fame and fortune, Ms Silvie Meis. Non-royal.
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A mystery solved then.
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You really have to work on your royalty trainspotting skills.
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That's definitely not an area of expertise at all. But it has been in the news so much, I have kept up somewhat with Prince Harry and Meghan Markle moving to Canada. I'm sure there must have been palace intrigue details going on that the general public doesn't know about. If someone asked me how I felt about the matter, I would be hard-pressed to give an answer.
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Yanks and the Windsors have never been a good equation! You just don't mingle with these people from the colonies.
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The case of Wallis Simpson was the most controversial example.
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That Baltimore divorcee! :mrgreen:
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How did we get this far off subject? ??? ???
The Duke of Windsor came to Houston in 1964 to have what was then experimental surgery for an abdominal aneurysm. The surgeon was Dr. Michael DeBakey, later the famous heart surgeon. The surgery was a success.
What bothered me about it all was the way the local media fawned over the royal visit. Not a word about the fact that he had been an open supporter of the Nazis. AFAIK he never renounced that.
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How did we get this far off subject? ??? ???
The Duke of Windsor came to Houston in 1964 to have what was then experimental surgery for an abdominal aneurysm. The surgeon was Dr. Michael DeBakey, later the famous heart surgeon. The surgery was a success.
What bothered me about it all was the way the local media fawned over the royal visit. Not a word about the fact that he had been an open supporter of the Nazis. AFAIK he never renounced that.
Chris should probably be blamed for this. Because he said the 20/20 unfortunately wouldn't be reissued. Then Uwe posted using what I think is the Dutch word for unfortunately. it was under a pic which I said looked like Kate Middleton. My uncertainly over this eventually led Uwe to note that my skills at spotting royalty were lacking. This is true. So, like I said, this would have never happened if Chris hadn't been Dutch and the Dutch word for unfortunately hadn't been "Jammer."
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Or if Rafael van der Vaart had never met Sylvie Meis. 😂
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Or if Rafael van der Vaart had never met Sylvie Meis. 😂
Good point. ;D
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Let's blame the French, because they're French.
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Let's blame the French, because they're French.
Aww haww hawww!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r7dveDEv-I
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Let's blame the ungrateful Harry and
Yoko Meghan.
(Pictorial evidence provided by Mr Westheimer's German legal counsel as Exhibits 1, 2 & 3)
(https://static.pjmedia.com/trending/user-content/51/files/2020/01/bedroom.sized-770x415x0x164x658x355.jpg)
(https://img.blick.ch/incoming/15702993-v2-en2xyyyu8aae2rs.jpg?imwidth=1000&ratio=FREE&x=0&y=0&width=2048&height=1518)
An unholy Yank trinity!!!
(https://headtopics.com/images/2020/1/10/smh/comment-when-the-duke-and-duchess-of-sussex-dropped-the-royal-bombshell-that-they-intend-to-resign-t-1215697588919459842.webp)
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Let's blame the ungrateful Harry and Yoko Meghan.
:rimshot:
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How did we get this far off subject? ??? ???
We conscientiously work at it, Dave. Dedication and practice make perfect.
The Duke of Windsor came to Houston in 1964 to have what was then experimental surgery for an abdominal aneurysm. The surgeon was Dr. Michael DeBakey, later the famous heart surgeon. The surgery was a success.What bothered me about it all was the way the local media fawned over the royal visit. Not a word about the fact that he had been an open supporter of the Nazis. AFAIK he never renounced that.
Indeed, he didn't. He was also an anti-semite. The Nazis loved him for it. Had we won the Battle of Britain, you can bet your ass he would have been reinstated as a puppet king.
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Let's blame the ungrateful Harry and Yoko Meghan.
Meghan broke up The Beatles?
(https://i.imgflip.com/19cdxh.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ELUBYZ61o4
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Chris should probably be blamed for this. Because he said the 20/20 unfortunately wouldn't be reissued. Then Uwe posted using what I think is the Dutch word for unfortunately. it was under a pic which I said looked like Kate Middleton. My uncertainly over this eventually led Uwe to note that my skills at spotting royalty were lacking. This is true. So, like I said, this would have never happened if Chris hadn't been Dutch and the Dutch word for unfortunately hadn't been "Jammer."
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
So, like I said, this would have never happened if Chris hadn't been Dutch and the Dutch word for unfortunately hadn't been "Jammer."
That is why you should always address them in German (copiously interjected with either "Schnell, schnell!" or "Sofort aufmachen!"). They all speak it.
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:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
So, like I said, this would have never happened if Chris hadn't been Dutch and the Dutch word for unfortunately hadn't been "Jammer."
That is why you should always address them in German (copiously interjected with either "Schnell, schnell!" or "Sofort aufmachen!"). They all speak it.
Once in the Netherlands, for some reason I really needed to talk to a lady about something. It became immediately apparent she knew no English at all. Then, however her face lit up and she began speaking loudly in German. That was even worse since I know even less German than Dutch. I believe that's the only time anyone ever tried speaking to me in German.
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You weren't wearing a uniform by any chance, were you?
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You weren't wearing a uniform by any chance, were you?
No, nothing like that. But there must have been something about my look which made her seem so sure that I would understand that German she was speaking. She was more frustrated than I was about it.
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How do you know it was German she spoke?
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Here's a 2020 I might could see myself playing. ;D
(https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--T7HyPhKK--/f_auto,t_large/v1536095641/cnexv3hmwcul5cwjyboz.jpg)
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How do you know it was German she spoke?
Rob, I think Michael needs all the help he can get with the two languages:
Dutch ("Kate Middleton" speaks Dutch at 1:23):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1YYdoofkDo
German ("Kate Middleton", yet again, speaks German - with hardly a Dutch accent, credit where credit's due, her German is pretty brilliant and faultless, I'm impressed - at 0:43):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEhs_XA3OGg
It is easy to tell the difference between the two languages, Michael:
German is the high art of sonic sophistication,
Dutch is more like, how shall I say it ... perhaps animal sounds?
:rimshot:
That was deliberately mean and untrue. Actually, Dutch sounds pleasant to German ears, a bit heavy on the throaty "huccchhh"s (we don't really have those), but endearingly - and the Dutch hate it when we say that - cute. A nose wrinkle language that can do no evil (except in South Africa, those throaty Afrikaans sounds are less popular with the majority of the population there!).
How German - a language that did plenty evil - sounds to the Dutch, I can only guess, but one of my Dutch clients once said: "It always sounds like you're either being yelled at or admonished for something." :mrgreen: But then that same client would always say: "I came in with the Luftwaffe ...", when he was referring to a Lufthansa flight. :) (Historically, he wasn't that far off, after Versailles German military flight operations had to be undercover and the Lufthansa served as the foil for what would later become the Luftwaffe. Hence a lot of later German war birds were initially "transport airplanes".)
The languages are no doubt closely related, Dutch is a former German dialect that died out in Germany, but not with our cherished neighbors.
Interestingly enough, Germans have less issue reading Dutch (you understand about every third word), but a hard time understanding it when spoken (the pronunciation is quite a bit different). Dutch people tell me it's the other way around for them, they find spoken German more accessible than written one. Maybe the Robs and Chris can chip in their part on this!
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Here's a 2020 I might could see myself playing. ;D
(https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--T7HyPhKK--/f_auto,t_large/v1536095641/cnexv3hmwcul5cwjyboz.jpg)
Dieser Bass ist arschhässlich.
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It's true I need all the help I can get with Dutch and German. But I can easily tell the difference between the two languages. I like both Dutch and German, but have studied neither one. When I was much younger, I did study some Spanish and Portuguese. Of course, that is of little or no help at all when it comes to other languages. I liked all the different accents of Dutch I heard when I was over there. I have no preference on that. I've taken four trips to the Netherlands--some of them lasting a few months. The last was in 2016. I've traveled much less to Germany. But with German I do have to say I liked hearing the pronunciation from the northern and central parts of Germany more. When I took the train from Frankfurt to Munich, it took my ears quite a while to adjust to the sounds. I liked Munich as a city, but the way the German sounded there, I just couldn't get used to it. Maybe I should have stayed longer.
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I thought maybe that lady spoke a dialect. I grew up in Limburg which is a province in the south near the German border.
Nearly every village has its own dialect. For most Dutch people it's hard to understand.
This one is actually quite funny (Steven Segal: give him 100 kilograms of horse meat and in no time he'll assemble you a pony)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihhsyICbwTc
A bit more up north, in the eastern Gelderland you have The Achterhoek (back corner)
Their dialect is a bit similar to the dialect from (the north) of Limburg. Pronounced different, but similar Germanisms
With their very own band Normaal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bF4AAVSfwA
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I had a friend from Friesland who had told me about how different the Limburg dialect is. But I had never heard it. Of course, I've been to cities like Amsterdam and Rotterdam and various other places. But it's mostly Friesland and North Brabant that I'm familiar with. But I've visited Groningen several times. I've been to Leeuwarden a lot. A friend and I took a trip once to the Drenthe province and had a very pleasant time there. I'm told that's not considered standard Dutch. But to me it sounded pretty interesting. Supposedly. the Haarlem accent is a kind of model. I have a friend from there. But her Dutch to me doesn't sound very much different than anyone else's. I think I just don't know enough about Dutch to say much about it with any kind of specificity.
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We understand 'aufmachen' yes.
And Friesland has it's own language. No dialect, but an official language.
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We understand 'aufmachen' yes.
And Friesland has it's own language. No dialect, but an official language.
In Friesland I was often addressed in Frisian. Overall, I've spent more time in Friesland than any other province. Of course I can't speak Frisian any more than Dutch. Linguists say Frisian is the closest language to English. In its spoken form, though, I found it to be completely unintelligible. Written Frisian, however, does have some similar words to English. My best friend there in Friesland had lived there a long time, but was from another area. She understood Frisian, but didn't try to speak it and didn't seem to like it much I must say. If anybody spoke to her in Frisian, she would just respond in Dutch. It seemed to me the Frisians were as fluent in Dutch as in Frisian.
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Dieser Bass ist arschhässlich.
Compared to what? Granted, it's not as elegant as a Zoot Suit SG or a Fireturd X... :P
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Dutch is more like, how shall I say it ... perhaps animal sounds?
I always found Dutch to be one of the most beautiful languages, even more so than Norwegian, Icelandic and so on.
I'm 14 days in a row in Dutch on the duolingo app now, so keep posting those talkshow vids 8)
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It seemed to me the Frisians were as fluent in Dutch as in Frisian.
Yes, that's because they are part of The Netherlands and 99% of the education they get is in Dutch.
However the Frisians are extemely proud of their language. And they do not miss an opportunity to show their Frisian identity.
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Yes, that's because they are part of The Netherlands and 99% of the education they get is in Dutch.
However the Frisians are extemely proud of their language. And they do not miss an opportunity to show their Frisian identity.
I got rather fond of Friesland. It's just so peaceful there. Also, I always found the people very friendly. But now my best friends live in other provinces. So I'm not sure if I'll ever see Friesland again. Probably about a 50/50 chance. If you like beerenburg and kibbeling, that's the place to go.
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Compared to what? Granted, it's not as elegant as a Zoot Suit SG or a Fireturd X... :P
Exactly! Let's not forget the actual bass that this thread is about. ;D
(Full disclosure - I'm not a huge fan of that Ric body style. But it still beats the 20/20)
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I'm no fan of (fully or close to) symmetric bass body shapes in the first place, the Flying V being the notable exception. The Les Paul Junior shape - source of wet dreams in certain quarters here - leaves me dry. The maple board and the blue don't go together either in my irreverent eyes. The thing looks cheap in a bad way.
The 20/20 is in a class of its own. Its shape is painstakingly designed - adhering to a single design vision and a single design language without any cop-outs. You might not like "paddle basses" as such, but there is no arguing with the lean design purity of the thing. In comparison, the Ric looks like the budget committee rush-released something. It might still sound excellent though and all ugly basses deserve great homes.
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We understand 'aufmachen' yes.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
It's German for "May I come in please if it is not too inconvenient for you?" For the sake of being polite, we sometimes get a little elaborate.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/09/18/f1/0918f17ce239f56515b16160aafbd63b.jpg)
Or perhaps just a lazy translation of an old Status Quo song?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr3JO0MhFTY
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I've not been following everything closely here but why doesn't a conglomerate here just go ahead with a limited run "build" (20 is an obvious quantity) bringing the beasty up to date...?
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I've been contemplating on building some sort of 20/20 up next. It would have the serial number 2020002
But I'm afraid it will never sell... :mrgreen:
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I think it's quite hard and expensive to build a limited run and af course no priority. It could be quite easy to make a limited run of those basses and it doesn't have a special bridge or tuners, but still... they need to find drawings, make a prototype, find the right pickups...
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I always thought that this would be one of the easiest bodies to program on a CAD. Nothing but straight lines. It could have passive pickups like EMG’s. The neck is the oddest part & maybe the leg rest.
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I've been contemplating on building some sort of 20/20 up next. It would have the serial number 2020002
But I'm afraid it will never sell... :mrgreen:
Through-neck is an obvious upgrade, with a wee bit of nostalgia... Thunderbird pup, a-la-T'Bird II, keeping her simple... ;)
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I'm sure they'll have enough LP Jr. Trubute Bass pickups left
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I'm sure they'll have enough LP Jr. Trubute Bass pickups left
That's the same DeCola pickup seen in 2013/2017 EB basses, just flipped upside down and under a different cover.
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This may have already been posted here, apologies if it has. Jules' 20/29 video from this past October.
https://youtu.be/ytP40JveGsw
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It is easy to tell the difference between the two languages, Michael:
German is the high art of sonic sophistication,
Dutch is more like, how shall I say it ... perhaps animal sounds?
someone once said to me that Dutch was just German spoken in a silly voice, I don't know how true that is but the dutch guy in the room laughed like a drain
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Dutch is more melodic except for the throaty tones und less harsh/consonant-sharp, but there is nothing silly to it. Just very cute!
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I like to think that Dutch is to German what the Welsh accent is to English.
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My 20/20 project is struck in Milan while I am waiting in Southern Italy that the mess passes.
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We need a 2020 20/20 reissue, Corona Edition. We had the biggest one day stock drop since the first 20/20 came out in 1987. Coincidence? I think not! Seriously, my best to all LBO’ers around the world, that they may be safe during this outbreak & that it passes quickly.....
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No please, call as you want but I do not want hear of corona anymore in my life: beers, basses, royal symbols…. never again
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I'll still listen to the Minutemen song by that name... But will respectfully refrain from posting it given how much the subject is wearing me down too. Much stress in my home and across my whole world, work and family and online contacts, everyone. It's a tough scary time.
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No please, call as you want but I do not want hear of corona anymore in my life: beers, basses, royal symbols…. never again
Never a friend of the original name, I'd opt for something contemporary: The Virus.
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Never a friend of the original name, I'd opt for something contemporary: The Virus.
I wonder how many new bands just adopted that name?
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Look what I just scored:
(https://www.enkoo.nl/uploads/1/3/3/7/13376708/2020-pickup_orig.jpg)
Should I build a bass around it?
What am I going to call it with just one pickup?
10/10?
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Throw it in a project EB-0 missing the original pickup and call it an EB-20.
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I'd save it for a rainy day. No need to rush into a project, for all you know, you may find a 20/20 in need of one.
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That's probably the best idea Dave ;)
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Avoiding 20/20, hindsight...?
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A 20/20 Jr, with the pickup in the “Sweet Spot”........ They must have anticipated producing quite a few more basses than they did. Quite a few NOS pickups have showed up on eBay in the last 20 years, many of the sellers not knowing what they had.
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Are they good pickups?
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My 20/20 sounds fantastic. So I guess I think they're great (for this bass)
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A former employee of the Gibson Nashville plant has a "Where are they now?" thread on the Les Paul Forum. I asked him if he remembered the 20/20 bass....
Re: Where are they now...
Quote Originally Posted by Grog
Randy, Do you recall any info on the Gibson 20/20 Bass? Ned Steinberger designed it shortly after Gibson acquired his company. They were produced in low numbers in 1987. We think somewhere between 50 to 100 basses were sold. Being somewhat Fugly, they didn’t really sell well, but it was an interesting piece of Gibson’s history of making basses.
Yes I do remember the 20/20. Barely. They were so un-impressive I believe 100 being sold may be too high.
IMO, they weren't much more than a "flavor of the month" before they disappeared.
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:popcorn:
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I can see that the 20/20 wouldn't be impressive to a Gibson employee who was used to Gibson's usual designs.
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He did work on a lot of very nice guitars. The 20/20 would look like a “Broomstick with a pickup on it”.
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Two 20/20 on reverb at decent price and different colors. An umissable opportunity to get the pair. Both in NJ
https://reverb.com/item/970286-gibson-gibson-steinberger-20-20-bass-1987-ferrari-red
https://reverb.com/item/1897039-gibson-20-20-ned-steinberger-bass-guitar-rare-1987-silver-luna
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I guess according to the second ad, "silver luna" is a synonym for "gold."
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Both basses have sold long ago.....
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I guess according to the second ad, "silver luna" is a synonym for "gold."
It's yellowed Luna Silver in bad lighting.
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That comment severely underrates the purity of the bass' design.
I'm happy that Rob likes his newfound pup (I have one too), but I find the 20/20 pups very hifi-sh - in line with their times, when basses were expected to sound like a Yamaha DX-7 synth. That doesn't mean that you can't get other sounds from it, you can dial away all treble, but the true sonic habitat of that bass is the kind of bass sound you hear on "We Built This City" by Starship. That is what it was built for. Not a put-down, just a characteristic.
The 20/20 is both a period piece and a timeless design classic.
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you can dial away all treble
Yes that's what I do. Not all of it, but enough to take off that grating sharp end. I also did it with my MM Stingray.
The 20/20 is both a period piece and a timeless design classic.
Amen to that.
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when basses were expected to sound like a Yamaha DX-7 synth.
Haha! Yes, nailed it!
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Ever since I received the Gibson 1987 catalog I thought this was a very attractive bass. I never understood how some people can't see it.
Yes that's what I do. Not all of it, but enough to take off that grating sharp end. I also did it with my MM Stingray.
My son tried flats on his '91 Stingray and it does exatly this - takes off the sharp end. Joe Dart has made this popular again, the only other high-profile bass player I can think of who used flats on a MM was Bernard Edwards.
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Ever since I received the Gibson 1987 catalog I thought this was a very attractive bass. I never understood how some people can't see it.
...
Different strokes. It's not ugly to me but I think you have to love it for what it is. It's not a beauty contest winner.
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For most people that might have only one bass (Oh! The Humanity!), the 20/20 might not be a great choice. For those of us that have a few, it’s different and a nice addition to the herd.
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As far as I know John Deacon had flats on his StingRay too. I think Cliff Williams has flats on his StingRay for studio use and rounds for live. There are more!
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Should I build a bass around it?
What am I going to call it with just one pickup?
10/10?
put it in the middle of your 2020 and call it a 2030
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Ever since I received the Gibson 1987 catalog I thought this was a very attractive bass. I never understood how some people can't see it.
My son tried flats on his '91 Stingray and it does exatly this - takes off the sharp end. Joe Dart has made this popular again, the only other high-profile bass player I can think of who used flats on a MM was Bernard Edwards.
I recall reading that Cliff Williams put on D'addario Chromes when recording, but used rounds live.
EDIT: ... oh, Chris already said that :)
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Chromes cut through nicely anywhere und they hold that sound forever. They are also stiff enough to make a 59-year old like me nostalgic.
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Our quest is over, introducing the all-new 20/20 Mark II, including some tasty upgrades:
http://www.youtube.com/w/zmO06_MpnMk
But that headstock needs to be reworked!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kDhpFaf4EY&feature=emb_rel_pause
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put it in the middle of your 2020 and call it a 2030
After seeing Rob’s Brooks Flying V concept bass, it might be time to give up on Gibson altogether (this was obvious long ago) and think about a Brooks 20/21.
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Now you have my attention! :)
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Now you have my attention! :)
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You are quite possibly the only man in the world with both an original in hand to copy & the means to design & build it!
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Ned Steinberger is still alive! :)
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Siri says he’s 72 years old. Somehow I thought he was was older......
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At least one 20/20 completed in 2020! And as most of 2020 things she revealed a nasty surprise. The bridge pickup looks faulty: only G and D strings make any sound. A and E are not audible. I know that EMG HB are a split coil under a humbucker cover, so they are wired in parallel and one coil failed.
(https://i.postimg.cc/bdTHjBJR/IMG-20201226-171747.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bdTHjBJR)
(https://i.postimg.cc/YhD6vLQG/IMG-20201226-171754.jpg) (https://postimgt.cc/YhD6vLQG)
(https://i.postimg.cc/zVGwDFHY/IMG-20201226-171813.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zVGwDFHY)
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Nice! This is the only 2020 20/20 reissue! An unusual bass for an extremely unusual year........
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Luna Silver 20/20 on eBay, needs some TLC but all there
https://www.ebay.com/itm/154268428691
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First one on eBay in a long time!
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The alignment seems terribly off.
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The alignment seems terribly off.
Not really an issue with bolt-ons, IME that is a 5 seconds fix.
You can't refinish them, right? You'll lose the logo on the upper horn.
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Not really an issue with bolt-ons, IME that is a 5 seconds fix.
You can't refinish them, right? You'll lose the logo on the upper horn.
A waterslide decal is not too hard to make at home. I buy cheap waterslide paper from China, with white or clear backing and print
on a decent laser printer. Under lacquer it's hard to tell if it's home made or not.
Even in gold or silver, many small decal shops offer repro decals made to spec. No reason not to buy this bass!
Not a 5 second fix, but probably not more than 15 minutes :)
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You guys are quite optimistic. :)
A neck reset is not very complicated. But it would cost me more than 5 minutes to fix it properly. That's for sure.
And applying the water slide decal maybe be easy; finishing the decal in a way that you won't see the seams etc will involve quite a few layers of transparant lacquer and lots of sanding/polishing.
Both isssues can be fixed.
But they will cost time and will demand serious skills if you want to do it properly.
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Not a 5 second fix, but probably not more than 15 minutes :)
Seen this on hundreds of bolt-on guitars and basses. What I do is hold the bass like a tray in front of me, one hand near the nut and the other near the rear strap button, with the side where the string is farther from the fretboard edge closer to me, press the body horn to my chest, and pull. That's it. No need to loosen strings or tighten bolts, just check tuning and you're good to go. Always works. Owners of 3-bolt 70's Jazz basses should be familiar with this maneuver, on some of them it's a routine check and adjustment.
I think I've started doing this to friends' guitars in the 70's as a teenager. I once met a guy that was told by his luthier that the bridge needs to be relocated, I said hand over the bass, one quick move and the alignment was perfect, I can't forget the look on his face.
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From experience (because my 20/20 came with a dismounted neck initially, the Italian seller was worried it would break during shipping), mounting the neck of a 20/20 is easily und quickly done.
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You guys are quite optimistic. :)
A neck reset is not very complicated. But it would cost me more than 5 minutes to fix it properly. That's for sure.
And applying the water slide decal maybe be easy; finishing the decal in a way that you won't see the seams etc will involve quite a few layers of transparant lacquer and lots of sanding/polishing.
Both isssues can be fixed.
But they will cost time and will demand serious skills if you want to do it properly.
So you are bidding on this and want to chill out competition?
:mrgreen:
Agreed. I do use about 7-9 clearcoats over decals and sand flush. Actual time spent shooting this tiny plank will be approx 5 minutes, and 10 more minutes rubbing and polishing :)
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So you are bidding on this and want to chill out competition?
:mrgreen:
Haha, no I already own one :mrgreen:
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The seller re-listed it with a $3,500 starting bid. It should be around til 2022.......
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I always predicted this, yet no one would listen to me.
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The seller re-listed it with a $3,500 starting bid. It should be around til 2022.......
But only $4 shipping!
Another delusional seller.
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Too bad. This could have been a nice restoration project for someone.
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I always predicted this, yet no one would listen to me.
Don't worry. It will never get sold for this price.
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A 20/20 for sale in Italy, same town where my Guild Starfire appeared few years ago. She looks clean and has still plastic sheet on the pickguard
https://www.mercatinomusicale.com/mm/a_gibson-steinberger-20-bass-silver-luna_id6890807.html
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Typical that the Lunar Silver ones all seem to have similar lenghtwise cracks in the finish. Mine has them too. And all the other ones I’ve seen.
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Don't worry. It will never get sold for this price.
Yes but he told his wife that he was trying.
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Yes but he told his wife that he was trying.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen:
When my ex girfriend said I really should sell something I always mentioned the bass she loved most. Still have the bass and very happy with my cat only now:)
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Typical that the Lunar Silver ones all seem to have similar lenghtwise cracks in the finish. Mine has them too. And all the other ones I’ve seen.
I remember looking at a Gibson IV in Luna Silver at South Austin Music that had the lengthwise finish cracks, and thinking it was strange, especially since it was NOS. It had been sitting for years in another music store that had gone out of business.
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A 20/20 for sale in Italy, same town where my Guild Starfire appeared few years ago. She looks clean and has still plastic sheet on the pickguard
https://www.mercatinomusicale.com/mm/a_gibson-steinberger-20-bass-silver-luna_id6890807.html
Are you going to buy it? Being close to home and all....... Only the second NOS I recall seeing.
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Pronto per favore!
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No, I'm not going to buy her, at least not at that price. Cannot justify a new bass when I'm not playing since long time
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The perfect bass always pops up at the worst possible time! I hesitated & ended up paying double (twice). Make the guy a reasonable offer & see if he bites..... That’s about $250 more than I paid for my Ferrari Red bass over ten years ago. By the time I bought the NOS neck & paid to have it finished & installed on the silver one, I must be just about there also.
(https://i.imgur.com/7lRv72S.jpg)
On another note, mine doesn’t seem to have the cracks on the horn as talked about earlier. We have a term here, “Minnesota Mint” due to the extreme weather conditions here. Mine doesn’t get out much, but it was purchased from Ohio.....
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You're the only person ON EARTH with two 20/20ies (or one 40/40 if you're a math guy), you know that right?
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Well 2 20/20 makes 40/20 if I am not wrong :). Actually have already two clones. My wife will not understand why I would buy a third ugly bass, and actually I am trying to save to buy a new green non-reverse when they will come out
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You're the only person ON EARTH with two 20/20ies (or one 40/40 if you're a math guy), you know that right?
If Gibson would have reissued it, I would have had to buy a third........ This is the only bass in my herd that my wife thinks is fugly. I wonder if Felix Pappalardi would have any advice as to how far to stretch ones wife’s patience........
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If Gibson would have reissued it, I would have had to buy a third........ This is the only bass in my herd that my wife thinks is fugly. I wonder if Felix Pappalardi would have any advice as to how far to stretch ones wife’s patience........
If only Gail's issue with Felix was the number of basses he had...
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Now don't give my wife any ideas!
Come to think of it, Felix' error in judgement was perhaps an over-application of the old saying "you can never really have enough basses" to interpersonal relationships? That really miffs some people. Hell hath no fury like a woman's scorn.
"Well 2 20/20 makes 40/20 if I am not wrong :)."
@tore00: Oh my, you have just shattered my algebra self-confidence for good! Talk about pulling the rug from underneath one ... Darn math professor. :mrgreen:
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Just pop out in my fb feed
https://www.facebook.com/1120516624654873/posts/4257305220975982/