Interesting story about explosive growth of hate groups and militias

[Pilgrim]

Like "cousin"?

[Lightyear]

I was ten years old before I knew that damn and yankee were two seperate words

[Dave W]

Like "cousin"?

If you get a divorce in Oklahoma, you can still be cousins, or so I've heard.

Then again, I hear that often from one of my good friends from high school, and he's a UT football fanatic. He may be ever-so-slightly biased.

[Pilgrim]

I was ten years old before I knew that damn and yankee were two seperate words

That is still an open question in the South. 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

If the USA does not change direction and falls off an economic cliff at the end of this year, one would be asking himself if 20 guitars in his house or 20 guns might serve a better use.

I'm convinced most of this is a manufactured scare tactic to influence the election and push us towards war with Iran.

The sad part is how DEvolved and ignorant the general U.S. population had become. I cringe I watch any of those "man in the street" TV reporters asking people questions. If it isn't some question about a reality TV star or pop culture, 8 out of 10 are clueless about most anything else. We have become a dumbed down society.

...and that's no accident. Public education has been under open assault for nearly 40 years, exactly the same amount of time that real wages in this country have stagnated, which is again, no accident.  Creative, critically-minded people don't do as they're told just to hit the feeder bar.  If this country paid half the attention to news and world events that it did to useless pop drivel, it would be a far better place. Unfortunately, for a large segment of the country, mindless entertainment is a better alternative than facing the reality of being working poor, so you have a large contingent of overworked, underpaid, exploited people who turn on the idiot box or turn up a bottle of alcohol or pills because real reality makes them want to eat a gun. When you have no power to shape your own destiny, you either revolt or accept it. The powers that be enjoy forcing this country to accept a great many things.

[drbassman]

Interesting discussion.  Lots of good points.  As an educator with 28 years of higher ed experience (and a wife who toils away in the local public school system as a speech therapist), the simple truth is we are now reaping the results of a primary and secondary education system that turns out ill-prepared students after 12+ years.  Our students underperform in every category/measurement compared with those from many other industrialized countries and many not so industrialized.  They have great self-esteem, but it is rooted in quicksand, not reality.   

Reference:  http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/34/60/46619703.pdf

Unfortunately, propaganda begins at the primary level and a solid education, like many of us here experienced decades ago, no longer exists in our public schools.  Many, not all, public school teachers do not prepare our kids properly.  In fact, many weren't prepared properly themselves by the propaganda machines at the colleges they attended.  Many parents do not support the schools and teachers as mine did, nor do many parents place any value on an education.  Unions are more often about protecting teachers, not raising the standards or performance of students.  The system and its perpetuation has become more important then its primary mission: educating our children to perform at high levels, be critical thinkers, continually seek knowledge, and be active informed citizens.

If the US citizenry is devolved and ignorant, we have to look at our public school system, our neighbors who sit on the school boards, and ourselves and ask why.  It's really not all that complicated to diagnose.  It's just a monumental task to correct.  It will take courage and decades to undo.  I'm not sure we have the wherewithal to tackle it honestly.

[Denis]

So it doesn't surprise me that the South has some cultural aspects which are in great contrast to other parts of the US.  I heard a recent report on NPR in which the reporter described an area in Alabama as "the kind of place where people ask your name, followed by 'which church do you belong to?'"  It struck me that such a question would be extremely rude in many parts of the US, but it reflects a culture and value system which are very different from those I live in.

I heard that as well. Did you catch the interviews with some of the constituents in Alabama shortly before or after that radio spot? One guy when interviewed said he "didn't think Obama can legally be president because the Constitution states both parents have to be born in the US and Obama's father was born in Kenya".

I'm not arguing for or against Obama, Romney or anyone else and add that quote simply to illustrate that many people in the south (I've lived in NC since 1969 with the exception of three years in Buffalo, NY) and elsewhere simply refuse to take the time to actually learn anything on their own. They are satisfied repeating what they are told without question. There's a lot of that in the south.

[Denis]

The war of northern aggression.......I love it .

A guy I worked for in college referred to the Civil Was as the "War between the Yankees and the Americans"!

[drbassman]

There's not a lot of difference between the north and south when it comes to people just repeating what one hears in one's home, church, work, media or social circles. 

[Barklessdog]

A true story-When I went to visit my brother who lives in Cincinnati, we drove over to Kentucky and while driving we saw a bill board that was advertising- "it's not cool to get a 13 year old pregnant".

[Pilgrim]

If the US citizenry is devolved and ignorant, we have to look at our public school system, our neighbors who sit on the school boards, and ourselves and ask why.  It's really not all that complicated to diagnose.  It's just a monumental task to correct.  It will take courage and decades to undo.  I'm not sure we have the wherewithal to tackle it honestly.

Bill, I agree with you but want to note (in the context of the discussion) that the problems are due to a symbiotic relationship of society and schools.  Where families are broken, education is not valued, perhaps gangs and crime are problems, it's much harder to get kids to care about school.  Too many kids aren't in a home or community setting that supports their involvement in education. Schools in those communities tend to have the issues you outlined, and the combination is a bad one.

I believe that schools can't fix what is wrong in the community around them.  Some kids will overcome the situation and succeed, but it's a tough situation to overcome.  I tend to think of this as a metro-area problem, but there are certainly plenty of small towns where the income is low, times are hard and some of these same factors apply.  I believe that improving schools also requires improving the situation in the community around them.

I am a very fortunate guy - I grew up in college towns, and in those towns there is a different atmosphere.  Education is valued, income is adequate, and the supply of graduates from the college keeps the schools full of enthused, energetic teachers who care about students.  Also, the community values education and watches the schools closely (sometimes too closely, in helicopter parent mode) so the K-12 education system runs very well. 

[drbassman]

Bill, I agree with you but want to note (in the context of the discussion) that the problems are due to a symbiotic relationship of society and schools.  Where families are broken, education is not valued, perhaps gangs and crime are problems, it's much harder to get kids to care about school.  Too many kids aren't in a home or community setting that supports their involvement in education. Schools in those communities tend to have the issues you outlined, and the combination is a bad one.

I believe that schools can't fix what is wrong in the community around them.  Some kids will overcome the situation and succeed, but it's a tough situation to overcome.  I tend to think of this as a metro-area problem, but there are certainly plenty of small towns where the income is low, times are hard and some of these same factors apply.  I believe that improving schools also requires improving the situation in the community around them.

I am a very fortunate guy - I grew up in college towns, and in those towns there is a different atmosphere.  Education is valued, income is adequate, and the supply of graduates from the college keeps the schools full of enthused, energetic teachers who care about students.  Also, the community values education and watches the schools closely (sometimes too closely, in helicopter parent mode) so the K-12 education system runs very well. 

I agree with you 100% Al, but I didn't want to expand my comments to cultural, familial and societal issues as well.  Howver, the problem is multivariate, as you note and breakdowns in all of these areas are contributing to the problem of uneducated ignorant citizens.

[drbassman]

A true story-When I went to visit my brother who lives in Cincinnati, we drove over to Kentucky and while driving we saw a bill board that was advertising- "it's not cool to get a 13 year old pregnant".

Just a sign of the times, and a noble request, I think.  We have 13 year olds getting pregnant here too!  Here in Rochester, NY, we have a billboard with a picture of a child pleading, "Mom, please marry Dad!"  Art imitating life.

http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/mom-please-marry-dad-pleads-child-rochester-billboard-138706

[Lightyear]

I agree with you 100% Al, but I didn't want to expand my comments to cultural, familial and societal issues as well.  Howver, the problem is multivariate, as you note and breakdowns in all of these areas are contributing to the problem of uneducated ignorant citizens.

Well said good doctors!

The public school teacher now is forced to do the job of the parent as well as try to teach.  Children come to class ill prepared and show an utter lack of respect for authority - they talk back and do not mind for their parents so why should it be any different for the teacher?  These constant disruptions in class limit the education of the kids that do want to learn.  Couple this to the fact that in Texas, and most other states, the school district spends almost twelve years drilling the kids to take, and pass, the standardized test to the point that real education is put on the back burner because high test scores are tied to additonal funding.  The kids are taught to take the damn test and little else.
 

[Dave W]

Anyone else here ever heard of the Jukes or the Kallikaks? Most of the theories behind the studies of these families have been discarded (e.g. that criminality can be inherited) but the problems they had are as old as the beginnings of American society. Also, neither family was from the South.