Author Topic: John Bonham  (Read 11674 times)

Garrett

  • Guest
John Bonham
« on: September 25, 2010, 06:03:26 AM »
 John Bonham passed away 30 years ago today.

John Henry "Bonzo" Bonham



May 31, 1948 / Sept. 25, 1980



In my opinion Bonham defined what it is to be a Rock Drummer....He set the bar high!

Barklessdog

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4473
    • View Profile
Re: John Bonham
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2010, 06:58:22 AM »
He & Keith Moon defined the rock drummer & their self destructiveness.

uwe

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 21502
  • Enabler ...
    • View Profile
Re: John Bonham
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2010, 09:36:18 AM »
Slaughter me, but the thing I like least about Zep (and have always liked least from the moment I heard them) is Bonham's heavy-handed, dragging behind the beat drumming. He could never play a shuffle properly (i.e.light-handedly) just as the ability to play eighths with a jazzy swing escaped him. I always liked that with a drummer, the ability to swing. Ian Paice did, Keith Moon did, even Bill Ward did with the otherwise utterly non-swinging Black Sabbath, Frank Beard did with ZZ Top before he became possessed with drum machines, but  Bonham did not, on a fast track like Rock'n'Roll he sounds like he barely can keep up, during Kashmir he plays straight 4s during Page's non-straight 4s riff which sounds interesting, but more like a work of accident, than one of having really understood the meter and playing with it, over it and under it (no Neil Peart). I always thought there was too little Buddy Rich in Bonham. As a bass player, drummers who play like Bonham drive me nuts, I find their drumming wholly unsympathetic to my bass playing.

A drummer once said to me: "The reason why us drummers like Bonham is that his style is easily emulated, he's simple, but effective, no technical intricacies that have you scratching your head. Now if you take Ian Paice in comparison, he's hard to copy, that old school swing in his cymbal playing, the intricate bass drum work, the fast and very accurate control he has over his snare. It's incredibly hard to copy his sound and approach in playing convoincongly, but anybody with a few years of drumming can ape a Bonham roll effectively and so that it is recognizable even to non-musicians. You can't do that with what Paice plays during Burn, it's beyond most drummers even today and if you try you tend to look silly."

Now, as we have a resident drummer here with Terr, explain to us, mighty honorable skinbeater, wherein the magic of Bonham's drumming lies for you? In drummer speak (and not just as a Zep fan) what fascinates you about his playing? Is it the ability/predicament to always be behind the beat? Is it his sound? His rolls? His bass drum work?  
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 11:16:02 AM by uwe »
We've taken too much for granted ... and all the time it had grown ...
From techno seeds we first planted ... evolved a mind of its own ...

Basvarken

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6887
  • hobby luthier. gibson bass nerd
    • View Profile
    • www.enkoo.nl
Re: John Bonham
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2010, 10:32:43 AM »
Okay Uwe, you've made your point: you hate Led Zeppelin.
Each and every topic that handles anything remotely connected to LZ seems to be your chance to tell us... :bored:


Chaser001

  • Guest
Re: John Bonham
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2010, 11:08:29 AM »
As Uwe has said, I'd also like to hear someone explain this in drummer speak.  Whether someone likes or dislikes Led Zeppelin doesn't matter much to me.  For several reasons, I'm interested in hearing more about drummers who play behind the beat.  Whether that's supposed to be a good thing or a bad thing is really not the issue for me.  I just want to know more.  What would really be of interest to me would be clips of different drummers who are known for playing behind the beat. 

uwe

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 21502
  • Enabler ...
    • View Profile
Re: John Bonham
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2010, 11:34:20 AM »
Okay Uwe, you've made your point: you hate Led Zeppelin.
Each and every topic that handles anything remotely connected to LZ seems to be your chance to tell us... :bored:



It's more complex than that. I find Zep's huge popularity intriguing. I don't deny their place in the pantheon of influential rock bands - you'd have to be deaf to do that, their influence is so distinct to this day -, I wonder why that is. They took blues, folk, a stellar singer, a behind-the-beat drummer, a hugely creative guitarist as regards chords and harmonies, but sloppy as a soloist, and a musicianly keyboarder/bassist and conquered America. Why? Few of their songs were catchy. They were often meandering, especially live. Plant was never a man of the people, but a rather aloof front man. None of their albums is overtly commercial, in fact if there is one thing I admire them for then it is their strong will to defy expectations from album to album (I have them all and listen to them with medical interest trying to determine what their x-factor was  :mrgreen:).

If you asked me what the ingredients are that make me like Deep Purple or Be Bop DeLuxe, I could tell you off-hand several characteristics/trademarks in sound. Led Zep people have seemingly a hard time doing that - it seems heresy to even raise it. So is liking them all based on feel?
We've taken too much for granted ... and all the time it had grown ...
From techno seeds we first planted ... evolved a mind of its own ...

Dave W

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 22254
  • Got time to breathe, got time for music
    • View Profile
Re: John Bonham
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2010, 11:45:43 AM »
Tell us why you don't like the Sex Pistols.

Garrett

  • Guest
Re: John Bonham
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2010, 11:56:37 AM »
Quote
So is liking them all based on feel?

I like `em! I was just trying to show a little respect for a passed player...... ;D

TBird1958

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6573
  • "you know the rule, No boots,No glam!"
    • View Profile
    • www.thenastyhabits.com
Re: John Bonham
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2010, 11:58:12 AM »

I like my Sex Pistol  ;)


 I have to come down on the side of liking LZ, which is difficult for me actually....... Seattle radio played the livin' crap oit every LZ tune ( followed by Pink Floyd  :puke: ) so there's very little that I can stand to listen to. But that aside they were a good, creative studio band and I really like Bonzo's playing and recorded sound for the most part and "When the levee breaks" is a personal fave.
Live is another matter.......maybe they had an off night when I saw them but not even two hits mescal could make them entertaining to me, frankly if I hadn't brought the sexy girl next door who was one year older than me I would have left, or fallen asleep.  
Resident T Bird playing Drag Queen www.thenastyhabits.com  "Impülsivê", the new lush fragrance as worn by the unbelievable Fräulein Rômmélle! Traces of black patent leather, Panzer grease, mahogany and model train oil mingle and combust to one sheer sensation ...

uwe

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 21502
  • Enabler ...
    • View Profile
Re: John Bonham
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2010, 12:10:47 PM »
I like `em! I was just trying to show a little respect for a passed player...... ;D

Which is perfectly alright. The fact that they never toured or recorded again after his death shows how vital he was for their sound and their cohesion as a band.
We've taken too much for granted ... and all the time it had grown ...
From techno seeds we first planted ... evolved a mind of its own ...

Highlander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12542
  • There Ken be only one...
    • View Profile
Re: John Bonham
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2010, 12:16:23 PM »
RIP JB

Only saw you play the once... Sorry, but I never thought you were a great drummer, I even detested your solos as overblown and extremely tedious, but together with those other 3 guys you made some music that been enjoyed by millions of people, myself included...


I sold this pic some years back and I believe it to be unpublished...

Neal Peart... now there's a drummer...

I'm a great admirer of Ed Cassidy, also the twin beat of Jaimoe and Butch Trucks...

The fact that they never toured or recorded again after his death shows how vital he was for their sound and their cohesion as a band.

There's a bit of me that wishes the Who had done the same after Moonie passed...
The random mind of a Silver Surfer...
If research was easy, it wouldn't need doing...
Staring at that event horizon is a dirty job, but someone has to do it; something's going to come back out of it one day...

Garrett

  • Guest
Re: John Bonham
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2010, 12:31:47 PM »
Quote
Neal Peart... now there's a drummer...

One of my favorites for sure.....He has mad skills!

uwe

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 21502
  • Enabler ...
    • View Profile
Re: John Bonham
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2010, 01:00:08 PM »
Tell us why you don't like the Sex Pistols.

I fear the question is of rhethorical nature, but I'll spoil the party by giving reasons because they are easy for me to put in words:

- I heard the debut of the Ramones first. I loved the way that was produced, it sounded like no album had done before in my ears. When I heard the Sex Pistols debut (and I remember distinctly when that was: I was in Munich with a friend and we were staying in his sister's apartment, we had just bought the album and were expecting great things) I was aghast how dated the production sounded - like Chinn Chapmann backing tracks from a Sweet, Mud or Quatro album four years earlier. I had loved glam rock, but thatr sort of production had nothing to do how the Sex Pistols were to sound in my mind.

- I didn't see the Sex Pistols as a band, but as a vehicle for Rotten and McLaren. All the other members were workmanlike, Sid Vicious later on excepted, but they were already on their way down then. Rotten's vocals were overtly loud in the mix, I don't like that to this day, it devaluates the music. The Ramones, in contrast, had no star, but a great - beautiful in its simplicity - band image. That album cover of the debut is iconic, the Pistols one just garish.

- I was an avid NME reader back then, took my bicycle once a week for a 20 mile round trip to buy it in the next larger town. The NME feasted the Pistols (and all of fledgling punk) in 1976/77 excessively creating a frenzy of expectation for more than a year. When - after a myriad of signings with and exodusses from other record companies - Never Mind the Bollocks appeared on Virgin, the king had no clothes on.

- I loved the Ramones' power pop sensibility, their charged up bubblegum sound. In comparison, the song writing on the first Pistpls LP had very little finesse, it was neither tuneful nor radical or off the wall (like, say, Doctors of Madness were). Rotten didn't have Joey's sense of a good tune.

- People like the Pistols for their lyrics and how groundbreaking they were. I found them labored in their attempt to break as many taboos as possible ("Belsen was a gas", wow, what a hugely political statement that is, akin to scribbling a swastika against a toilet wall). In 1977, I was a politically aware (or misguided, George!) young man, I read a communist daily in Germany and my first vote went to the - miniscule - German communist party in 1979. Johnny Rotten describing the Queen as "a fascist regime" made me laugh, it was so naive and off the mark,, the man had no idea what fascism was, yet he was older than me. He sang about "Anarchy in the UK" based on a vague feeling of dissatisfaction with the English class system, but in reality had no idea what anarchy was. He probably thought it had something to do with throwing bombs.

- In essence, the Pistols were a hype. McLaren launched them as a hype and they delivered the goods that way. They weren't any more political than Alice Cooper or Marilyn Manson. The Ramones were apolitical in an unabashed way - no pretension. The Pistols were full of themselves and of pretension. The Ramones grew from scratch in an organic way, the Pistols were casted by Mclaren, with Rotten being dragged to a rehearsal of the then three-piece after being sighted in Malcolm's/Vivienne Westwood's fetish wear shop.

And they never wrote a catchy riff either. Nor do I hear much of an influence of theirs in the music of today. The Green Days of this world have more of a Ramones influence.

Does that explain somewhat why they do nothing for me?  :-*
We've taken too much for granted ... and all the time it had grown ...
From techno seeds we first planted ... evolved a mind of its own ...

Dave W

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 22254
  • Got time to breathe, got time for music
    • View Profile
Re: John Bonham
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2010, 01:17:04 PM »
I fear the question is of rhethorical nature...

 :vader:


Does that explain somewhat why they do nothing for me?  :-*

May the road rise with you.

Pilgrim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9985
    • View Profile
    • YouTube channel
Re: John Bonham
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2010, 01:20:08 PM »
I thought most of LZ's stuff was very catchy, and I enjoyed it.  Much of it "stuck in your head" and kept coming around and around for hours.  That's a big part of what it takes to be popular. 

I frankly don't care whether the drummer is perfect, or proficient, or whatever.  I want something that's catchy and fun to hear.
"A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila."