The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Outpost Cafe => Topic started by: Blazer on February 26, 2009, 07:50:25 PM
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Okay for those who don't know: Eric Carr (Paul Caravello) replaced Peter Criss as Drummer of Kiss in 1980 adopting the image of a Fox.
(http://hardrockheavymetal.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/eric-carr-2.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/cristen72/Michael/kiss1981.jpg)
Kiss in 1980, from left to right: Ace Frehley, Eric Carr, Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons.
Carr quickly became a favorite with the fans, being easy going, friendly and humble and his powerhouse drumming pushed Kiss in a heavier direction as well as turning Kiss' live shows into much tighter played shows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OadjZRMh4rg
Carr remained a member of Kiss during the Eighties in which he saw various line up changes and played on multiple extensive world tours until his death because of cancer in 1991, he was 41 years old.
Nevertheless among Kiss fans and hardrock fans alike Eric Carr is remembered fondly because of his friendly outgoing persona and his virtuosic drumming. And the picture I found shows that affection that fans still have for him perfectly.
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w305/KissRules3/Eric%20Carr/Eric_Carr_by_akhirah.jpg)
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He was cute. Gene Simmons only had nice things to say about him in his biography and Gene doesn't say nice things about a lot of people he's played with.
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I've heard it said that it was Carr's death that changed Kiss forever. No more band members after him, only sidemen. I think I've heard that losing Eric affected both Gene and Paul deeply.
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Eric was never a band member. Like Eric Singer now, he was a paid employee (Eric S. also gets a retainer but I'm not sure how that works; he tours with Alice Cooper when he's not on the road with KISS).
Gene may have written nice things about Eric but that didn't stop the KISS organization from letting him go and canceling his health insurance when it became obvious that he probably wasn't going to recover. From most accounts I've read or heard, Eric died having been abandoned by his supposed friends, who wouldn't even take his calls by then. Very sad for a guy who, by all accounts, was a gem.
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Eric was never a band member. Like Eric Singer now, he was a paid employee (Eric S. also gets a retainer but I'm not sure how that works; he tours with Alice Cooper when he's not on the road with KISS).
Gene may have written nice things about Eric but that didn't stop the KISS organization from letting him go and canceling his health insurance when it became obvious that he probably wasn't going to recover. From most accounts I've read or heard, Eric died having been abandoned by his supposed friends, who wouldn't even take his calls by then. Very sad for a guy who, by all accounts, was a gem.
Oh really?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yXlLhy5PfY
Listen to what Kiss' former manager Bill Acoin says at the beginning of this clip.
I don't believe that bullshit. Everybody who was in Kiss (including Peter Criss) saw Eric Carr as the only true drummer of the band, a legit member and not just a hired gun. According to an interview with Eric Carr's then girlfriend, everybody of Kiss was there in the hospital a few days before he died and they all attended his funeral.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3LZ83UWOB4
This interview came from 1992 shortly after Eric Carr's passing and you can tell by Gene and Paul's demeanor that they still are suffering from the loss, Paul in particular seems to have trouble holding back his tears.
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Oh really?
I don't believe that bullshit. Everybody who was in Kiss (including Peter Criss) saw Eric Carr as the only true drummer of the band, a legit member and not just a hired gun.
According to an interview with Eric Carr's then girlfriend, everybody of Kiss was there in the hospital a few days before he died and they all attended his funeral.
Believe what you want Blazer, but you'd do better to chill out on the bullshit calling. You seem bent on pissing up every leg you find here, but it's not doing you any favors to do so. I don't really need or care to post 15 links to show I'm a bigger fan-boy than you are, but I'm pretty sure I've been a fan of the band longer than you've been alive. Then again, I'm not a big enough KISS nerd to sit and argue about them over the internet (God knows there are plenty of those :rolleyes:) so maybe you win. Thanks for playing...
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I never followed KISS and I never heard of Eric Carr before this thread, but it took me less than 2 minutes to find that he was never part of the KISS company and that he was paid a fixed wage.
I guess that means I win. ;)
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Dammit Dave, now I have to clean Pepsi off my laptop screen!
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<-------never a KISS fanboy, thought I do like "Calling Dr. Love". Zero respect for Gene Simmons as a person or bassist. My opinion. Wouldn't shock me to hear they canceled Carr's health insurance and would actually be surprised if they didn't.
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Hey Blazer lighten up - where here to shoot the sh*t not not sling it :) We can't all agree with each other - that would be boring and this place is anything but boring.
I mean where else could you find a combination of red headed bastard step children that have a thing for the red headed bastard step child of basses with a goodly mix of chrome and mahogany worship? :P :P Not to mention if Freud were alive he would want goodly portion of us on his couch :o
If there's to be drama let's keep it between the Fraulien & Chris ;D
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Eric was hired. Gene even writes so in his bio. Everyone is hired with Kiss except Gene and Paul and - in the days of yore - Peter and Ace. Ace got bought out of the company. Peter might still be in it, I don't know.
That said, with a band of the commercial statute of Kiss in the late seventies, no new band member replacing an old one could have expected a share in the partnership. The new drummer in REM is never gonna be a full band member either and Michael Stipe is perhaps not quite the capitalist cardboard villain Herr $immon$ so excels in portraying himself as.
I have a faint memory of the life insurance thing from the bio, though it is depicted there as the Kiss organisation rushing to save Eric's life insurance when - as insurance companies sometimes do :-\ - the insurance company wanted to pull out. I can't see why they would have wanted to pull his life insurance while he was approaching death, the benefit of saving on another monthly payment seems slim in comparison to the litigation claims the Kiss organisation would have invited from Eric's family.
Uwe
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Fraulein & me. What drama?
No opinion on Kiss. Ow well, I'll just make one:
God Gave Rock And Roll Yo You II is the best Kiss song ever. Period.
And let's remind: Blazer is still posting only guitar related things here, so let's face it he's just 'different'. ;)
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Fraulein & me. What drama?
No opinion on Kiss. Ow well, I'll just make one:
God Gave Rock And Roll Yo You II is the best Kiss song ever. Period.
And let's remind: Blazer is still posting only guitar related things here, so let's face it he's just 'different'. ;)
Considering it's a remake of an old Argent song, I can't tell if you like them, or you're slamming them. :mrgreen:
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Well, I really DO like the song, but I don't know much Kiss songs (only the well known once) and this song is part of the soundtrack of a part of my life (no I wasn't in that Ed & Ted's Bogus Journey film;) ) as well as Under The Bridge was. A happy period (*), so I like it. I have to find the Argent version though!
(*) Well, happy has a complete other definition since I met Mark.
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And let's remind: Blazer is still posting only guitar related things here, so let's face it he's just 'different'. ;)
Only about guitars you say?
What kind of Matsumoku built instrument did I buy recently?
What kind of instrument is Juan Nelson playing in that thread I posted about him?
What kind of Gibson Thunderbird with a Fender Jazz neck hybrid did I build and showed the entire process of?
Not to mention my threads about airplanes, movies, cartoons and a band that played along to a tractor running idle. And this thread which is about a drummer.
I certainly handle more topics than just guitars Chris and may I remind you that YOU wanted to do a feature on me in that mag you work for because of a bass I put together.
I'm no one trick pony.
To get Back on Kiss and Eric Carr here's MY favorite Kiss track.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC_jnHpabjk
This song and the album from which it came steered Kiss away from the disco and bubblegum image they had with songs like "I was made for loving you." Eric Carr's drumming has such a prominent role on this song. Cementing that he really was the true Kiss drummer.
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He was cute. Gene Simmons only had nice things to say about him in his biography and Gene doesn't say nice things about a lot of people he's played with.
Gene is an asshole and he'll be the first to admit it. But he came from extreme poverty and has since learned by being an asshole he'll NEVER have to go back to being poor again.
Be as it may though, Gene has been put in place plenty of times and the most humorous of those times was when Kiss was on the Mike Douglas show. Gene's very first TV interview and it shows that he was still wet behind the ears. In a later interview Gene admitted that Totie Fields ripped him a new asshole as soon as a very nervous and embarrassed young Gene Simmons spoke up and tried to come across as a bad ass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT7MS0GxKoQ
And another one was when they appeared in the Tom Snyder show in 1978 and a very drunk Ace Frehley puts Gene into place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRSEi3yoSSM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkO5S_fFb2A
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hmmm... I guess the meaning of my ;) got lost.
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hmmm... I guess the meaning of my ;) got lost.
Obviously. :rolleyes:
Someone is still in "beat everybody over the head with tons of unwanted information" mode.
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"hmmm... I guess the meaning of my ;) got lost."
Not on me Sugar, I guess I'm being a laid-back Drama Queenie this week :)
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Seen Kiss live twice and was a big fan as a youngster. Great entertainment. Made me feel good and smile both times. These days as long as its not that over played disco tune of theirs then I will happily listen to any Kiss.
As far as the whole band members and who owns what percentage of the company goes. I was in a band that did albums back in the 80's and as an original member I was also a 25% shareholder in the company even after I left to pursue a different musical direction. The guy who replaced me was always a hired hand right up until the last reunion gig which was a period of more than 20 years. I was with the band for the first 3 years and finally sold my share to the other 3 members at 5 years. Kev the replacement bassist who is a great guy and good player was given the option but declined. mostly due to the value being outside his reach. The other 3 guys however obviously only had to find 1/3 of the price Kev would have had to which made it easier for them.
I received 25% of the profits of that band for the 2 years after I left.
I would guess that this is quite a typical scenario having spoken to other musicians who have been on both sides of these arrangements.
Dont see why Kiss would be any different except maybe for the scale of it all. I very much doubt if Eric Carr would have been able to buy an equal percentage of KISS INC and thus become a full business partner.
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Oh my, you can tell by the glares Gene and Paul give Ace during that Tom Snyder interview that they found his demeanor utterly unprofessional. I can just see Gene (who stops participating in the interview in bad mood after a while) taking poor Ace to task in the studio aisles along the line of an intimidating "You play guitar in this band and nothing else, don't ever interrupt Paul or me again ...". It speaks loads about the band chemistry at the time. Not a happy family.
And since everyone seems to have something derogatory to say about "I was made for lovin' you", may I state: I think it's a great catchy, danceable and uplifting tune. Compared to the musical accidents scattered on earlier Kiss records, "I was ..." is sheer Mozart from a songwriting perspective. No Kiss album will ever oust Destroyer from its rightful throne, but Dynasty is another favorite of mine, brilliant for "Sure know something ..." and "I was ..." alone. Play those two on an acoustic guitar followed by Firhouse or Deuce and then tell me what the better songwriting is. The earlier stuff is bad enough to have been turned down by early Grand Funk Railroad as B-sides and that is saying something as Grand Funk took a while to learn how to write a song too.
Uwe
Uwe
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Well, love 'em or hate 'em, we're STILL talking about them. I saw them on their very first appearance in Chicago (a very green and unimpressive Rush opened), and then again about 5 years ago (my wife had never seen them). Both times were entertainment value that few bands can deliver. They've put out a great album (Destroyer), a lot of good ones, and probably just as many bad ones (is anything on Unmasked even remembered?). Still, they know how to endure in the entertainment industry, and that's more than can be said for 90% of bands in the past 25 years.
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whenever i hear the name gene/jean simmons i still first think of the old movie actress. i think this is good. ;)
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Oh yes, Kiss are always an entertaining subject. I think Gene Simmons is highly entertainig, actually more off stage than on stage, on stage he's this one-dimensional monster, off stage I like his machiavellist-cynic streak (as long as you are not victim to it). Paul I find a bit naff, he always seems to be overacting whether on stage or off. And his "I want to be taken serious as an artist ..." is a bit grating too. He should have thought about that before he put on kabuki make-up and became famous with it. You can't have it both ways.
I saw Kiss last year. My teenage son was arrogantly sceptical of them ("that is not even a real rock band, dad ...") and it took them about 30 seceonds to win him over. Arriving on stage from platforms descending from the ceiling befor a curtain of fire and smoke might have helped though.
Uwe
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Fraulein & me. What drama?
Please! At least with you two I always at least get a chuckle ;D
And if I were the Fraulien I would have a damn good prenup! ;)