Isn't it terrible ...

[uwe]

Admittedly, I'm ranting, yes, an active bass can sound organic too, too many people just don't set it up that way. I like the WAL sound (though hardly a "rock" sound) and that is heavily processed, yet still warm.

[Dave W]

Anyone else remember fattychugs from the Pit? He lent me a few of his basses for a couple of months way back in the early days (2001-2002). I couldn't get a decent sound out of his Wal. I thought his best sounding bass by far was his Sadowsky...battery and all. And I'm not a J fan.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Flea's classic RHCP hit tone gave me Wal lust. There is definitely a difference between the tone of the red Stingray he used on Young MC's "Bust A Move" and the Wal that made him famous on "Blood Sugar Sex Magic," but it is VERY subtle, definitely attainable with an old 2 band 'Ray and a good analog console channel strip or high end older preamp, but ironically, the Wal was the less expensive proposition for many years.

 The closest I have to a similar trope is my Marcus Miller which uses Fender's copy of MM's Sadowsky preamp, and it is VERY different from Fender's standard "active" sound on the US Deluxe models. That bass NEEDS its active bass boost and bright as it is inherently with a heavy ash body and maple fretboard, goosing the treble a bit also does some very nice things to its tone. My Stingray is a 2001 vintage with a 3 band EQ and sounds very much like the other Stingrays of that era. Sterling Ball wisely resurrected the best vintage features while keeping up innovation with his toilet seat and crooked Explorer basses and mine is from the time before they incorporated the compensated nut and changed their preamps on all their non-vintage  reissue 'Rays. It does what it does. If I need the OLD Stingray tone, my G&L L2500 through my Fender M80 preamp into my Aguilar tube power amp NAILS it.

As for the mods to the Squier on YT, I can't stand to read the comments without having Talkbass PTSD, but I will say that Chinese Squier Classic Vibe basses are some of the nicest playing and sounding basses for the money that Fender has ever put out. Mexican-made instruments used much better wood, but the electronics were always their weakness, ruining most of their organic tone by making them overly bright and thin. The stock pickups on the new Squiers are worlds better (though that demo video seems to indicate otherwise- screw YT- I've PLAYED several of those basses). I love Seymour Duncan stuff, but unless you're wanting a Billy Sheehan tone, that mod was a waste of money, and holy shit is that dude proud of that slap lick! Hey kids, have some mids!

[patman]

The stingray sound can be very natural sounding...I think my favorite bass tone is a stingray as used in Sade's band, or maybe the more aggressive tone used in Chic.

I would love to have a fretless stingray fiver...heard one in a jazz combo in a bar in Atlanta...it sounded great. Pretty much the perfect tone to my ears.

[Father Gino]

Both examples are cases are well-designed preamps that still allow the character of the original passive pickups to shine through. But also consider the host of low to mid budget import basses with all kinds of variation in construction and pickups that sound virtually identical.

So let me get this straight. Crummy basses sound... well, kinda crummier... than better basses that sound... more better.

Flea's classic RHCP hit tone gave me Wal lust. There is definitely a difference between the tone of the red Stingray he used on Young MC's "Bust A Move" and the Wal that made him famous on "Blood Sugar Sex Magic," but it is VERY subtle, definitely attainable with an old 2 band 'Ray and a good analog console channel strip or high end older preamp, but ironically, the Wal was the less expensive proposition for many years.

I mean absolutely no offense when I say that I guess I just don't really care that much about the subtle differences you're talking about. I appreciate you're expertise and relatively objective contributions to this thread, but I think I'm personally not that interested in "tone" per se. I'm more interested in the music being played than the perfect tone. Or at least not nearly as conscious of it as you are.

OTOH I remember reading about the guy who made Berry Oakley's infamous Tractor. Supposedly he told Berry: "You sound great but your bass sounds like shit." Sure enough, his bass does sound like shit on the early studio albums. That I could notice, so I guess I'm glad that there are engineer types around who pay attention to these things.

I mostly play a Lakland 44-02 with the newer Lakland electronics. 99% of the time it's set almost flat with all pickups on. I've never recorded anything with it. Homogeneous is a word that has crossed my mind concerning the tone of this instrument but I can make it sing very differently. from polite to aggressive with just my hands.  Homogeneous isn't all bad all the time. More than any other bass I ever had, I can get a good, usable sound in the most acoustically horrible room.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

So let me get this straight. Crummy basses sound... well, kinda crummier... than better basses that sound... more better.

You're oversimplifying to the point of irrelevance. I've also heard megabuck (and justly so- not just "collector pieces") basses be rendered of generic sonic character by bad pickup/preamp combos. Anyone who ever played a Modulus Quantum with Lane Poor pickups can readily explain why they are so much more valuable than the standard Bartolini-equipped models and those were ALL $3k+ basses new 20 years ago. It's only recently that preamp systems that don't maul the tone of the installed pickups and passive pickups designed to work well with onboard preamps have become commonplace.

I mean absolutely no offense when I say that I guess I just don't really care that much about the subtle differences you're talking about. . I appreciate you're expertise and relatively objective contributions to this thread, but I think I'm personally not that interested in "tone" per se.

This thread is actually ABOUT active basses and their tonal differences from passive basses. It's not even one of our famous derails. If tone doesn't matter, then why did James Jamerson hardly ever change his strings or Les Claypool change his constantly? If your instrument cannot convey the musical expression the way you wish it to, it WILL negatively affect your playing. Conversely, a good sounding bass can definitely inspire a player to better expression. Your comment is like coming into an art forum discussion about differening brush sizes for varying techniques and saying that you prefer landscapes. OK; good deal, but that's not what the discussion is about.

I'm more interested in the music being played than the perfect tone. Or at least not nearly as conscious of it as you are.

The music being played is a DIRECT result of the tone of the instrument. If your active bass suddenly lost all of its bass boosting capabilities and the treble froze at full boost and its tone was nothing but fork-on-a-plate treble clank, how well do you think you would be able to play? I'm not concerned with "the perfect tone" like some practice-averse lead guitarist; I just know what I like, how to get it, and why the tools that makes that sound perform the way they do. My playing technique is built around my sound and my sound is built around my playing technique. I tend to favor off-beat rests to build tension, and consistently play behind the beat but at a very slightly faster tempo than the drummer. I like groove and Flea is a very "groovy" player when he keeps his thumb out of it.

OTOH I remember reading about the guy who made Berry Oakley's infamous Tractor. Supposedly he told Berry: "You sound great but your bass sounds like shit." Sure enough, his bass does sound like shit on the early studio albums. That I could notice, so I guess I'm glad that there are engineer types around who pay attention to these things.

I remember Berry much more for his playing than his tone, which is pretty much just a slightly more aggressive Fender sound and quite common among most of the rock bands of that era.

I mostly play a Lakland 44-02 with the newer Lakland electronics. 99% of the time it's set almost flat with all pickups on. I've never recorded anything with it. Homogeneous is a word that has crossed my mind concerning the tone of this instrument but I can make it sing very differently. from polite to aggressive with just my hands.  Homogeneous isn't all bad all the time. More than any other bass I ever had, I can get a good, usable sound in the most acoustically horrible room.

...and every one of my instruments allows me to do that within the confines of how I wish to play. I played three VERY different basses on my old band's only real studio effort and those choices were simply reflections of which sonic palette I thought best served the song. Live, 99% of my playing was my beloved MIM 63 Jazz reissue that has been refinished and outfitted with very low output Jackson pickups intended for use with a preamp run passive and my note and phrasing choices were set in stone by years of live performance before it was ever committed to disc.

BTW, regarding your Hammond organ comment earlier, I thought that you were referring to the bass pedals, but the reason that the tonewheels don't work on the bottom keyboard is that the notes expressed are indeed "cheater" notes using the first harmonic and the fifth, which actually produces the note electronically and acoustically. It's called the beat effect. The tonewheels can't work because they would have to bend both pitches simultaneously and while technologically possible, it wasn't cost effective. There's no fraud involved, only a little musical science.