Made in USA, or not

[nofi]

i have heard that a product ASSEMBLED in the usa can be labled MADE in the usa, even if parts were manufactured elsewhere. i heard this theory as it may apply to fenders. any validity to this story.

[angrymatt]

I've always assumed that if a component is made of either metal or plastic (or any combination of the two) that it was made in China.  This applies to everything, not just musical instruments.

[Pilgrim]

i have heard that a product ASSEMBLED in the usa can be labled MADE in the usa, even if parts were manufactured elsewhere. i heard this theory as it may apply to fenders. any validity to this story.

It works for cars and most other products I'm familiar with.  For me, it's not normally a criterion in the decision to buy or not to buy.

[Chris P.]

Most speaker brands have factories in the east, so if you buy an American made Fender or Mesa or whatever it's likely you get Chinese (or so) speakers.

I think most Fender parts are made in the US, but it wouldn't surprise me if control knobs and so are made in China. I would'nt care.

[Dave W]

Not true. Under the FTC standard, to be called "Made in USA" the product has to be "all or virtually all" made in the US. That means the actual manufacturing of the product has to be done in the US, including finishing.

It's possible for some imported components to be used in a product that's actually manufactured here. But if it's just an assembly of imported components, then it can only be called "Assembled in USA of imported parts."

Cars and clothing operate under slightly different rules. Carmakers don't make unqualified "Made in USA" claims anyway. They do have to list specific US content.

[Chris P.]

And who cares... I know the Lakland Skyline and the Epi Lennon Casino are labled 'Assembled in the USA'.

My reissue Burns is produced in China, but manufactured in the UK. Body and neck are made in China and they built 'm in the UK with British parts. No problem, cos in that way this limited edition bass costs as much as an American Standard Fender, while a CS Burns the same price has as a CS Fender.

[Dave W]

Some people do care. Being able to call a product Made in USA matters for certain products, otherwise manufacturers wouldn't bother to make the claim.

[Chris P.]

You are right Dave. I think it's important the body is American, the finish too, pick ups, electronics. But like those three black Jazz controls.... Who would care about the origin of them?

[Freuds_Cat]

I think a lot of how much ppl care where its made comes down to the old Collectors vs Players thing.

Quality is quality regardless of where its made or what the price tag says. 

[eb2]

Quality is quality, but you tend to pay a bit (at one time a lot ) more for a US made instrument vs an import from a country with a low standard of living.  So, while the quality of Ibanez instruments - for one example - in the late 70s and early 80s was equal or superior to the major US instruments they were inspired by (not the mid 70s copies to be clear) the reality was the US guitar or bass was priced substantially higher due to domestic labor costs involved at all levels.  Nowadays, that gap has closed with Japanese made instruments, and both US and Japanese made instruments are more than stuff made in Korea or China.  You can include CAD/CAM in the mix for cutting costs of automation, but you can still ship a freight container of basses to the US from China for so little vs domestic manufacture, that the steel freight containers can be considered scrap upon shipping.  You can't even set up the machinery here for what it costs for finished products.

Also, to the original point, Fender began using Asian parts and partial assembly in the early 80s (US labeled Bullets and Japan labeled Bullets shared components and assembly), and they also have and continued to use US electronics and hardware in Asian labeled product.  I am guessing they source many hardware parts outside the US as well, but it is just as muddied as car assembly.

[Dave W]

The original Japanese imports, like most other Japanese products at the time, were built to lower standards. Cheaper woods, cheaper hardware, cheaper electronics. They weren't even intended to be high quality, just cheaper alternatives. That situation still exists today in other parts of Asia. The Chinese and Indonesians are certainly capable of building first class instruments, just as they have proven they can do with electronic devices. But the fact is that most of the musical instruments from these places are still built to be inexpensive copies with lower quality materials and components.

[Freuds_Cat]

you tend to pay a bit (at one time a lot ) more for a US made instrument vs an import from a country with a low standard of living. 

I guess the thing to keep in mind here is that to people like me and our European brethren, an MIA bass is also an import. So we are paying higher prices again than you chaps in the US due to shipping and import duties etc.

As far as Fenders go I disagree with you Dave in regards to the build and component quality of the 80's Japanese instruments vs the same time period USA built ones. I have my 74 Jazz MIA and I have owned an 84 P bass MIA. But I have an 82 JV Squier which is as good if not better in some ways than either of the other 2 basses. I will concede that the body is Sen Ash but IMHO I'm not totally convinced that Sen isn't superior to Swamp Ash tonally anyway . It is certainly has a more consistent grain. But I guess wood preferences are just that.

[Rhythm N. Bliss]

As Dave said, American Made usually means Superior Quality,generally!
There may be a few MIM & MIJ axes that sound just as good as most American Made but those are rare exceptions...& then too you've got to dig that the Best of the American Made axes are even more rare & better than the best of the foreign market...with very, very few exceptions.
My limited experience has been that non US Fenders ain't as good, & neither are copies by other brands.
I do have some damn good Gibson copies tho--a Greco SG & Tokai Tbird.
Got 'em cuz lefty Gibsons are SO damn rare & expensive.
I certainly appreciate why Americans want to BUY AMERICAN.
It's a good idea for us to do that but sometimes you just can't pass up a good cheapo bargain, huh?

When I saw Gary Hoey he commented between songs that he bought an American flag & then saw that it was made in China & that inspired his album titled American Made.
Great album btw Highly recommended! Nice clean cut & bright American boy.

[nofi]

the can of worms is officially open.

[Freuds_Cat]

@ Nofi  You started this!


Thats not my experience  RnB.  Which brings me back to what I've mentioned a few times before in other threads that I can only assume (My Conspiricy theory!   ) that the "New" (at least new since 1980) basses that I've seen and played from American companies that get shipped to Australia are the leftovers from what those companies have selected to be sold in the US and I guess possibly Europe first.

The Made in Japan Fenders are generally (IMHO) mostly better instruments than the US production built ones. (Custom shop instruments definitely excepted). Specifically the attention paid to fit and finish is superior.

I'm not saying this to get into an argument or get a rise from ppl. Its just my experience over the last 30 years which has included working in 3 different music stores. And having 2 friends who are Fender accredited repairers.