The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Bass Zone => Topic started by: Blazer on January 12, 2009, 08:31:47 PM
-
In response to what was being said in the Jeff Berlin thread that "Fusion has a very small following" and that the general consesus was that you could fall alseep to it. I decided to start a threat where we celebrate fusion because I'm sure that even that kind of music has some interrest on this forum. And that fusion can be fun and funky to listen to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKqn6Bpv8Q4
Chick Corea - "Got a match?"
Listen to Corea and Bassplayer John Pattitucci playing the main riff in unisone and having so much fun doing so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00tzcnyDL68
Miles Davis - "Tutu"
In my opinion one of his finest moments of the later part of his career. Marcus Miller plays a starring role in this performance by just providing the low end an doing nothing more than that but being incredibly good it at. Note also Foley, playing a tenor bass (Tuned A-D-G-C)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L72VO5J9dvI
Stanley Clarke and Jeff Beck - "Lopsy Lu"
Can't deny the fun in this performance.
-
:bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored: :bored:
-
IMHO it's a load of goadawful self-masturbatory crap. I'm not "afraid" of it... I loathe it.
YMMV, of course. You may hate some music I like. You probably do. And that doesn't bother me. I like what I like, and I'll never like fusion in any form, shape or fashion.
Fusion has a small following. That doesn't make it good or bad. Still, it's a fact. You're not going to change that fact by posting a bunch of clips, and you're not going to convince anyone to like it by trying to explain it.
-
go listen to DEVO ! 8)
-
Man, I pressed pause on the Meters live recording I'm listening to for this???? ;)
IMHO, Chick Cora is hands down the least "musical" musician on the planet.
-
Um, if SC is such a good bass player then why does he always play with a "Bass Player".
-
Well I listen to fusion! I should clarify that I am referring to Stanley Clarke, later Soft Machine, Chick Corea, later Zappa, etc. I don't personally care for Berlin, especially because he looks like some kind of mutation of Mario from Mario Brothers and Jimmy Buffet.
Some of these old guys who post here are still telling themselves hair metal was good though, so truly we are a varied lot.
-
Fusion, to me was eye opening at the time, I loved it, but since has become a tired Genre to me , at least Jazz Rock fusion. Fusing genres could go as far as Prog Rock Metal or any genre including Paul Simon.
Jazz Rock I believe is to what most people consider fusion to be. Jeff Beck really popularized it to the masses with Wired and then Jan Hammer ruined it with Miami Vice.
-
:bored:
-
This will wake you up Chris - get out your pink sports coat and dance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQDU-2qMre0
Live version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZvEJaCXC5s&feature=related
-
Not much of a fusion fan, but that isn't surprising, since I don't care for jazz, either. The really odd thing is that I love King Crimson, although a lot of their live improv leaves me scratching my head. I actually auditioned for a band when I was 19 that turned out to be a fusion band. It was a violinist and a drummer, with me. I took a deep breath, pulled out my best John Wetton, and survived the hour-long ordeal. I didn't get an offer, but they seemed a little surprised that a metalhead like me managed to keep up.
-
I like it when it's music
I like Miles---even later Miles
-
I have always liked virtuosic music, be it metal, prog, classical, etc. Jazz is very harmonically sophisticated, I love hearing it wedded to rock. The first really electric Return to Forever album, Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy, is spastic and insane, almost metal, but with latin elements as well. The early Mahavishnu Orchestra is also spastic, but with Indian rhythms. The mid-'70s Miles Davis stuff blows my mind - I love the late '60s stuff when Dave Holland was playing electric bass, the version of "Bitches Brew" on the Fillmore album is almost metal (can you tell I like metal?), and especially Agharta & Pangaea, which are deep African space-funk from the distant past/future.
I know this isn't going to convert anybody, I guess I'm a little surprised at the venom with which people are putting down "fusion". Actually, I don't care about labels, there is specific music I like and nobody else has to like it, I could care less about a label, which often gets in the way of music.
-
I know this isn't going to convert anybody, I guess I'm a little surprised at the venom with which people are putting down "fusion". Actually, I don't care about labels, there is specific music I like and nobody else has to like it, I could care less about a label, which often gets in the way of music.
++++1000 but is so true of music, one music sounds so great to one person then is unlistenable to another. THEN YOU WONDER WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM!
Joe Satriani could be lumped into this as well. Joe & Steve Via stumbled on "dumbing it down" to a metal head banging audience to get more appeal and avoid the dreaded "fusion" label which became a dirty word in the music biz.
I think limiting your taste in music is the saddest offense and not being open minded, or growing as a musician and a person. That is what to me is horrible. You can find good & bad in any genre of music if you want.
Dumbing music down has been done for mass consumption / commercially viable, for all genre's
Jazz - Gorge Benson, Kenny G & Herb Albert
Blues - Robert Cray
Prog - Journey & Kansas
Fusion - Joe Satriani & Steve Vai
Punk - Hoobastank or any other "fake" punk band today
Guitar Hero & Rock Band - dumbing down the musical experience in general.
-
George Benson can really play---sing too
Some of his stuff I may not care for....but the man is like Nat King Cole---he sings wonderfully and plays well also...
Wish I had a tenth of his innate ability
-
I was a huge fusion and prog guy when I was younger. I learned a lot, and advanced my technique by leaps and bounds trying to cop lines by Stanley, Percy Jones, Jeff Berlin, Ralphe Armstrong and others. Brand X, Bruford, Return to Forever, solo SC, solo DiMeola, Jean Luc Ponty, Jeff Beck (Wired is a virtual bass lesson put to disc) were my favs. The genre pretty much died around 1980 as far as I'm concerned. I rarely listen to any of it now (but I'm still a prog geek), and I rarely use much of what's left of the technique I had developed. I've found more joy in serving a good song than being the "look at me!" guy.
-
I wouldn't say that I hate fusion. The fact that I'm a borderline Crimhead kinda makes me unable to hate it, but I find that I can only take so much of it, and also find that a lot of it doesn't catch my interest when it seems to be wanking for wanking's sake. I much prefer songs with structure and themes.
-
interestingly enough is that of all the people who passed through his band ponty was the only guy who zappa truely disliked. or so i have read.
-
I know this isn't going to convert anybody, I guess I'm a little surprised at the venom with which people are putting down "fusion". Actually, I don't care about labels, there is specific music I like and nobody else has to like it, I could care less about a label, which often gets in the way of music.
I find labels useful even though they can sometimes mislead.
Normally I'll just refrain from commenting when somebody starts a thread about a band or a musical style I don't care for. This is different. It's an outgrowth of comments in the Jeff Berlin thread, and I take it as an attempt to force-feed fusion to those of us who don't like it. So I'll speak my mind.
-
you tell 'em Dave.
-
most of this stuff doesn't sound like songs.it's just too free form to me.like a musical amoeba. :P
-
most of this stuff doesn't sound like songs.it's just too free form to me.like a musical amoeba. :P
Funny when say that I think of Mike Watt- He is someone who is not gymnastic chopsmeister, but does some crazy, almost fusion/prog music, but with a punk attitude.
Thats the kind of music I find so cool, funny aint it. I never cared or really listened "real " punk till recently from a lot of the guys here and elsewhere. I'm a sponge and will try any kind of music if it has balls, great musicianship, or downright weird.
I grew up with fusion when it was cool & new. It died when it took two paths, smooth Jazz & Noodle gymnastic music
-
Normally I'll just refrain from commenting when somebody starts a thread about a band or a musical style I don't care for. This is different. It's an outgrowth of comments in the Jeff Berlin thread, and I take it as an attempt to force-feed fusion to those of us who don't like it. So I'll speak my mind.
Making a thread and posting a video is force feeding? Surely this is being a bit dramatic!
most of this stuff doesn't sound like songs.it's just too free form to me.like a musical amoeba. :P
Funny that fusion (at least in its well intentioned infancy) was like punk rock in trying to abandon those old forms, rules, and traditions. I'd say a band showing up on stage for noodling is no less defiant and snotty than a 2 minute, 3 chord burst from the Germs, it just pisses off a different set of scene police / musical authorities.
-
punk didn't piss off "the scene police".they pissed off the real police. :o
-
I can appreciate any music, if its good. Blow by Blow, Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy , Hot Rats, Imaginary Voyage... those IMO are just great works - even if they're considered fusion. There's even some post-fusion 80s stuff that still sounds good to me. Flim and the BBs Tricycle, for example. Just like any genre, there's plenty of crap out there too.
I think I've outgrown my interest in virtuosity for the sake of virtuousity. If someones talents contribute musically to a song, then I'll be drawn to it. If it is just a bunch of folks on stage being virtuosos, or if the song is nothing more than a platform for some virtuoso soloist, then once you get past the "wow look at that" factor it gets boring pretty fast. Most of the time the wow factor only goes noticed by other musicians anyway, so that kind of music doesn't have much staying power.
Those albums I mentioned do have wow factor, but can stand on their own musically too. That's why I like 'em.
-
Its like Victor Wooten leaves me cold, His last CD Palmystery was better, but he is really more of a Circus act, bass gymnastics, if you will. I just can't get into that.
I never got into Jaco either, but still recognize (good & bad) what he did for bass playing.
-
I never liked the virtuoso thing either---it's about groove, feel and spontaneous creativity
Ginger Baker did some cool trio work / I think big parts of the old Mahavishnu Orchestra were pretty cool--
I really really don't like it when the music becomes a circus act---you know, when Jeff Beck plays a fast lick and everyone claps like its an athletic event
-
Yet, Entwistle was excepted & lauded for overplaying, being a lead bassist
-
Yeah but compositionally the Who's songs interest me, and Entwistle's playing gives it an idiosyncratic flare that makes the music even more endearing. I rarely listen to "bass player music" anymore - unless the music is just good holistically.
An example of that is an older solo album I have by Victor Bailey (cheesy name - "Bottoms Up") that features some "hey look at me" playing, but the compositions are excellent, and his lead bass playing suits the songs well. That seems to be the exception to the rule for instrumental solo albums, though, most of the time.
-
Here's an example of a bunch of fusion-branded virtuosos who can groove together, and make some cool music (IMO, of course):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQE4NSiQuJE
Dats wha I likey :)
-
... I rarely listen to "bass player music" anymore - unless the music is just good holistically.
I've never listened to "bass player music." To me, it's all about liking songs. If I like the music, a good bassline is a bonus, whether it's busy or sparse.
-
Here's an example of a bunch of fusion-branded virtuosos who can groove together, and make some cool music (IMO, of course):
Dats wha I likey :)
Moog face!! I love it!
-
Fusion bassplayers in general are very open about who was an inspiration and why. A few years ago Bassplayer magazine had an interview with Jack Bruce where he recalled Jamming with Jaco Pastorious who cited Jack Bruce as a primary influence to play Lead bass. According to Jack Bruce Pastorious dared him to play free jazz and the most obscure songs by bassplayers like Charlie Haden, Jaco who was not aware of Jack Bruce's past as a member of the Graham Bond organisation, Brittain's main electric Jazz band of the early sixties was kinda annoyed/ impressed that Bruce not only could match him on that but also play rings around him when it came to some work.
Bruce said in that interview that Jaco remarked that he (Jaco himself) still had a lot to learn if he were ever to succeed the master.
Marcus Miller cited Jermaine Jackson as a key influence. As both the reason why he plays a Fender Jazz bass and in the way Jackson played, it was only a couple of years later that Miller learned that Jackson's basslines were actually played by Motown bassplayers James Jamerson and Carol Kaye. To his credit though, Jackson DID play those basslines live.
-
Marcus Miller cited Jermaine Jackson as a key influence. As both the reason why he plays a Fender Jazz bass and in the way Jackson played, it was only a couple of years later that Miller learned that Jackson's basslines were actually played by Motown bassplayers James Jamerson and Carol Kaye. To his credit though, Jackson DID play those basslines live.
Say what? Most of the Jackson Five basslines were played by Wilton Felder, and Jermaine played a Gibson EB-3 onstage, at least in the early days.
-
Say what? Most of the Jackson Five basslines were played by Wilton Felder, and Jermaine played a Gibson EB-3 onstage, at least in the early days.
I was quoting what Miller said in his interview, he apparently didn't know as much as I know who really played on those records but in the very early years "the I want you back" and "ABC" era, it's not too unrealistic to think that the legendary Funk Brothers played on those recordings.
And as for Jermaine Jackson playing Fender jazz Basses...
Well...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vil7KDAgWE0
A mimed version which shows his Jazz bass and...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7GptrjsboA
...a live version which shows his ability to play Bass.
He used a Red Jazz bass and a custom silver sparkle Jazz in the later part of the J5 career.
-
Fusion has its place and some of Stanley Clarke's bass playing (not the slapping orgies) can trigger emotions with me. Why anyone should not be able to post here advocating his love for fusion is beyond me. I bought the new Vooten, Clarke, Miller triple bass CD (haven't listened to it yet) just out of curiosity. I'm sure it will contain widdly-widdly stuff, but there will also be moments that make me listen up and maybe I'll even swipe a lick or two!
I can't listen to fusion hours on end, but I can't listen to The Ramones hours on end either. The "too free form" criticism is largely unwarranted, unless we're talking Bitches Brew. If anything, most seventies fusion (Weather Report, Return to Forever), especially with the funk factor, was rather rigid in its arrangements and hardly improvisational at all. Very disciplined and concentrated music. Much of Zappa's music was fusion and except for the master's guitar solos there was zilch improvisation. To say it is not played with emotion, is a clichee. Jeff Beck has been more a fusion than a rock guitarist for three decades now, is his playing unemotional? :rimshot:
Uwe
-
Why anyone should not be able to post here advocating his love for fusion is beyond me.
Who said otherwise?
If this had been an "I love fusion" thread instead of a "who's afraid of fusion" challenge based on comments in another thread, there probably wouldn't have been any negative comments.
Now I'm going to go listen to some old time hillbilly music, followed by some old time honky tonk music. Who's afraid of that? :P :P :P
-
Jeff Beck has been more a fusion than a rock guitarist for three decades now,
Not sure I would consider 3 albums from the 70's out of ....erm, whatever number he is up to now, (a lot anyway) as being Beck playing fusion for 30 years. Each of the subsequent albums have been pretty fusion free to my ears. I mean some were almost Hair metal (Flash) others were Beckised Rockabilly (Crazy Legs ) then ther later stuff is more Chemical Bros in its sound than fusion.
I reckon thats a bit of a long bow to draw there Uwe.
Sorry I know I'm being a pedantic recalcitrant. Cant help myself. :P