The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bill's Shop: Projects, Mods & Repairs => Topic started by: godofthunder on January 17, 2009, 11:24:28 AM
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I bought this off ebay a while ago. the buyer said the headstock repair was stable, well it wasn't took, me awhile to get to it but I glued it up today. I used a razor knife and some string tension to get it apart. it broke cleanly down the glue joint. I cleaned the joint and scored the two surfaces for better adhesion. mixed up a little West systems epoxy and clamped her up. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/TBheadstockrepair003.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/TBheadstockrepair001.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/67NR002.jpg)
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As I got it. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/67thunderbird.jpg)
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looks like you definately saved a player Scott. good work. ;D ;D
reminds me i have to go set an intonation today.
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Good work Scott, are you going to refinish it?
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Good work Scott, are you going to refinish it?
Nah, I ought to keep it the way it is, it's such a cool looking bass that really has lived and the overall look of the instrument really adds to the MOJO.
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At first I was going to refinish it but at this point I'm thinking about keeping it as is. The way things are going there will be no NR IIs left in original finish. We seem to want nice shinny Gibsons but beat up Fenders LMAO
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I agree Scott, keeping things original once in awhile is a good thing.
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i was going to redo the headstock in Mahogany but who ever made the replacement headstock did a really nice job. At first I thought it was made of maple but it sands much easier,not sure what it's made of. The glue joint just failed, almost looks like he used hide glue, maybe why the joint failed.
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Yeah, I've decided to stay away from hide glue. While it's forgiving and easy to undo, it also is more temperamental than Tite Bond.
I've been going toward less messing with the finishes on my vintage basses. I decided not to do anything to my 67 Coronado and my 68 Mosrite Celebrity bodies. I just polished them up and left the nicks and dings. I did redo the back of the Coronado neck, it was a total mess of huge cracks and finish falling off and exposing wood. That's when I usually dive in, if there's a large portion of wood showing. Otherwise, I'm appreciating the vintage look more and more these days.
I guess I could have left the NR TB in my avatar as it came to me. That would have been interesting!!!!!!!! :P
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Hide glue shouldn't have been a problem. I use it every day on fiddles. The big thing about hide glue is that it is not a gap filler. You need a perfect joint or it will likely fail. I'd use it over yellow glues any day.
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Hide glue shouldn't have been a problem. I use it every day on fiddles. The big thing about hide glue is that it is not a gap filler. You need a perfect joint or it will likely fail. I'd use it over yellow glues any day.
Makes sense. We tend to stay with what works and I've never had a Tite Bond joint fail and many of my joint, especially breaks needing repair, haven't been perfect and couldn't be made so.
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Hide glue doesn't tolerate heat and moisture well, for some applications it's fine. I wouldn't use it on headstock repair. I was torn between Tite Bond or West System. West System holds my boat mast together so it won out ;)
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Actually it holds up better to heat than Titebond. Yellow glues will creep under heat and stresses such as a headstock. Another big advantage if hide is that it has a low shock point, meaning it will let go at the glue line if you would drop the bass. Usually it won't deviate from the original break so you don't have top deal with additional break lines. With Titebond or epoxy the break could be anywhere.
In any event, I just wanted to stick up for hide glue a little bit. It takes some getting used to but it's a fantastic glue. And yes, I've used Titebond and epoxy for all kinds of repairs. I'd probably use epoxy on the headstock just as you did.
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Also, I wouldn't refinish that great looking bass! Think of how many years you'd have to play it to get it looking that cool...
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Yellow glues aren't gap-filling either.
Hide glue is great for certain things, not for others. It's especially good where you can't clamp solidly like you need to with yellow glue. But I would never use it for a headstock repair on a steel stringed guitar or bass. A neck under 100-plus pounds of tension needs some elasticity, and hide glue doesn't have it.
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I've used hide on double basses with 250+ lbs. of string tension with no problems whatsoever.
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I wouldn't call that a valid comparison. Much bigger neck, much stouter cross section on a double bass. Even so, I'd never use straight hide glue (without urea added for flexibility) to hold a headstock break on a double bass either.
Hide glue is one of those things that's often talked about on guitar building and repair forums but is actually rarely used in the guitar business. I know some very small shop custom builders use it, but the guitar industry doesn't and hasn't for 3/4 of a century or more. The industry weighed its options and has been pretty successful using synthetic glues all these years.
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I've been working in a workshop where we repair double basses for over ten years now, if there's a broken headstock, we use epoxy based glue to repair it, it's strong, durable, filling and it dries quickly. We NEVER use hideglue for a repair like that, hide glue mostly is used to repair cracks and splits in the top, bottom or sides of the instruments. If we have to glue in a neck we either use the epoxy based glue I just mentioned or Titebond.
As for our guitar building, we always use syntethic glues like the epoxy stuff and Titebond because they are dependable and strong.
"The name is bond, titebond."
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I see now that there is really no valid comparison between guitar repair and orchestral instruments. It's easy to forget the different mindsets.
The number one thing that was stressed to me when I was learning the trade is that the original is sacred. These instruments have to last hundreds of years, so using epoxy on them can be a huge detriment years down the road. Guitar players haven't even been around long enough to think that far ahead! ;)
If we have to glue in a neck we either use the epoxy based glue I just mentioned or Titebond.
Blazer, am I reading that right? One of the most common joints to fail on a bass and you use epoxy or titebond? I hope you like making new neck blocks!
Anyhoo, I'll keep mah mouf shut on it from here on out.
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It's really funny the things we get invested in when building and repairing. I've seen the same debate over in the Refinishing/Rehabbing forum. In the end, it's a matter of taste and experience. This is one debate no one can ever win, but the differing viewpoints are interesting for sure. Thanks for chiming in!
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No reason to keep your mouth shut about it, your opinions are vaild. I'm just pointing out what I would and wouldn't do and why.
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No reason to keep your mouth shut about it, your opinions are vaild. I'm just pointing out what I would and wouldn't do and why.
Dave's right. No one is expect to "shut up." There's room for all opinions here and we accept their diversity. Don't hold back just because we all can't agree! That will never happen. ;)
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No worries here! I should have put another wink behind that last line. After all, it's only the internet...
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Here are some pics of the finished repair. I tried to blend in the finish with a red-brown base color and various toners instead of just shooting it with a dark walnut that is the norm for these kind of repairs. I am very happy with the results. I can finally play this bass been almost a year ! (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/67NRheadstockrepair001.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/67NRheadstockrepair002.jpg)
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Nice job blending the finish.
But seeing it just laid across those cases makes me nervous. Be careful! :o
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Nice work Scott!!
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Turned out nice. This is one of my weaker areas that I'm working on. Touching things up is not one of my skills just yet. Total refinishing is so much easier to pull off!
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Sehr gut. But where do the gold tuners come from? :o :o :o
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LOL They came with the bass, I can't stand 'em gotta order some of these http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/bass_mh1.jpg
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Great job as always Scott but
But where do the gold tuners come from?
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I don't know where they came from. They are old reverse style like you would find on a Fender or a Thunderbird just gold plated. from the front it doesn't look so bad most of the plating has rubbed off the clover leaves.
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You need to get a gold pirate tooth to match that bass.
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hmmmmmmmmmmmm i'm not much for bling, just easier to get rid of the tuners ;D