The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Outpost Cafe => Topic started by: Dave W on July 26, 2008, 01:39:14 PM
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Grumpy old man Neil Young blames Apple for consumers' tastes in music formats and players: Fortune/CNN story (http://techland.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/07/23/neil-young-takes-on-the-ipod/)
He accuses Apple of dumbing down sound quality to Fisher-Price toy levels. Funny, I remember Fisher-Price toys being pretty rugged compared to most others.
Sorry, Neil, but a lot of consumers would rather have decent quality portable sound than limit themselves to listening in their living rooms. It's called freedom of choice.
And all this from a guy who can't sing or play in tune.
When Neil was a young man, he probably complained that 78 rpm acetates didn't sound as good as wax cylinders. ;)
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I love him:) And from him I would accept if he would complain about 78 rpm acetates:)
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Through reading the comments on that story on another site, I found this review of hi-fi cables, which presumably is what Mr Young thinks we should all aspire to. Only 1500 USD a pair and well worth it so you can relax with your box set of Creedence Clearwater singles.
http://stereophile.com/cables/207stereovox/ (http://stereophile.com/cables/207stereovox/)
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i've gotta go with 'ol Neil on this one.but i've been called a "Luddite" before.ha,ha.i love that my ipod holds sooooooo much music.but it doesn't sound as good as my home stereo.i won't give up my vinyl.i save the ipod for when i ride the subway........on another note.i grew up in NYC,which means i've been riding the trains my whole life.always with a music player.first tapes then cd's and now Mp3's.in the tape days a pair of duracell's would last a week.with cd players maybe 3 days.my ipod only hold a charge for like 3 hours playtime.which pisses me off 'cause i cant just change the batteries.so i always end up having to carry it around for no reason.
$1500 CABLES IS JUST STUPID.
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I've never been into Ipod's nor Walkmans for that matter. I prefer to listen to music in my home which means lots of vinyl, tapes and CD's. Some of the MP3 quality really varies and I think the sound just sucks to be honest. Give me an original Chicago Transit Authority LP on the red "360 Sound" label any day.
The cable price is stupid. I just use heavy duty Radio Shack cables and my ancient KLH speakers sound great. (so do my Advents!)
BTW, I saw Neil back in '84 with the International Harvesters. What a great show and Tim Drummond was great on Bass.
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i also use ancient KLH speakers.
these.....................
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x120/yrofrat/n001.jpg)
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i also use ancient KLH speakers.
these.....................
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x120/yrofrat/n001.jpg)
Cool! I use the Model 17 which are very small but sound huge. Got them for $20 at Goodwill a few years back.
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those are model 32 the wlohe thing is 19" X 11" with a 5" and 7" speakers.sound so good i have 4 JBL's in the closet.these sound better.
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I certainly agree that it sounds better at home on your stereo. Nobody's disagreeing with that. But people want to listen on the go and they'll accept lesser quality to have that portability. Apple isn't to blame for offering that choice. They're not forcing it on anybody. Customers have decided it was a good option.
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I certainly agree that it sounds better at home on your stereo. Nobody's disagreeing with that. But people want to listen on the go and they'll accept lesser quality to have that portability. Apple isn't to blame for offering that choice. They're not forcing it on anybody. Customers have decided it was a good option.
Dave's right, Neil's full of crap. He's a great song writer, but what he knows about consumerism, capitalism and the real world is nil. He also can't sing on key and his lead solos are awful!!!
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and his lead solos are awful!!!
I've always dug his Cinnamon Girl solo. (one note! :mrgreen:)
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Those one note Young solos do more to me than all the notes of Satriani and Vai together.
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for someone who can't play or sing he has done quite well for himself, doncha' think. for me music is more about passion than technical ability. the bum notes add some humanity to the recording in this world of ultra perfect ' we will fix it in the studio ' recordings mindset. :mrgreen:
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I'm not a big Neil Young fan myself. Some of his stuff is OK, but I was never real impressed with anything he did.
However, a few years ago I caught a Crosby, Stills ,Nash and Young concert and he really suprised me. Young was the one who did all the tastey lead guitar work live . I never did any research on who did the leads on the albums but I'm pretty sure it wasn't him. I had always regarded him as a pretty limited electric guitarist untill I caught that show. (Absolutely great show , by the way). 8)
I'm still not a big fan, but for those who think he can't play squat, there is definately more there than meets the eye/ear. Why he hasn't managed to capture it on his many recordings is a mystery, but the SOB can play. ???
Rick
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... for me music is more about passion than technical ability. the bum notes add some humanity to the recording in this world of ultra perfect ' we will fix it in the studio ' recordings mindset. :mrgreen:
Tom, I agree, although Neil's passion doesn't move me. Just a matter of taste.
But that was just an aside, really. I think his blaming Apple is way off base, and it just amused me that someone as sloppy as Neil would be so concerned about sound quality.
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Those one note Young solos do more to me than all the notes of Satriani and Vai together.
+1
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I agree about the one note played with conviction but I detest Neil Young's music because of a friend in high school that tortured us with his music 24/7 played really loud through a crappy sound system. Same with Zepplin- Listened a life time of their music .
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Sometimes I play Ordinary People three times in a row. That's an hour:)
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Back in 1980 my band in College played "Ohio" and "Hey, Hey, My, My" (or was it the other way around?) and they were both rocking songs. I even like his 80's "strange" period stuff, especially the rockabilly LP he put out.
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i also use ancient KLH speakers.
these.....................
Blimey, I thought I was the only person in the world to still have a pair of those. God knows when I bought them, maybe 1975. They've outlived 3 amps, survived 6 house moves, 2 small children and friends, cats sleeping on them or using them as steps, numerous drunken parties. As well as sounding great, they also still look good. In fact, I did recently consider changing them and my wife wouldn't let me.
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I think any type of media that reduces music to the same experience as listening to it on the radio devalues it. For me, a lot of the appeal of music has to do with seeing the product (and be it on a small CD inlay where I have to squint my eyes), seeing a nicely printed CD, the smell of fresh plastic and hearing it in context. I used to record CDRs and before that cassettes with my favorite tracks, but I noticed it ruined the experience and eventually even the song itself for me, so I kicked the habit. It is like tearing the best pages from your favorite books and glueing them all together. The result won't be world literature. A Day in the Life works best at the end of Sgt. Pepper and not anywhere else.
And as someone who has witnessed Neil Young only recently: His pitch is top notch. His electric guitar playing is controlled anarchy, yes, but he had a great overall sound in that 5.000 seater hall.
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I agree with Uwe:
I love albums!
Listening to Sergeant Pepper is like a journey and so is Tommy. If a random song from Tommy comes by at my Creative Zen it just doesn't work... And with albums there's the sleeve notes, the sleeve itself. I remember my early teens, listening to soul and asking myself who this Cropper guy was who wrote songs with Otis. The same with Goffin/King, which brought me to Tapestry (*), and Shuman/Pomus.
(*) There are still dozens of albums I wanna buy, but sometimes I have a black out in a record store. I keep a list in my computer, but of course I'll always forget it. That same thing happened some years ago when I was in a record store with a colleague. We decided to go for a beer and the moment we walked into the pub (next door to the record store) I remembered Tapestry by Carole King. Not even a minute later the whole album started. After the third song i ordered a second beer and I asked the bar lady if she heard me talking 'bout Tapestry. She didn't, so it was sheer coincidence.
I immediately went to the store to buy Tapestry, but it wasn't in stock.
The next day I visited the same store and Tapestry just came in.
Harry Mulisch-like coincidence as we call it in The Netherlands.
About albums:
Q magazine featured an article about U2. The Edge and Bono, both multi-millionaires of course, argued day after day about the right track listing of the new album. They both tried to win the opinion of the journalist and they fought like little children about the track listing. When Q reviewed the album they stated, like always: Download track 1, 3, 6 and 8. They're best.
I hate that, cos some songs grow on you.
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so so true.when my old band recorded our lp,we spent so much time getting the order right.some songs go great together some don't.and being a vinyl only release you also gotta think about side 1 and side 2. which is also the drawback to records......you gotta get up to flip it over.
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I think what Uwe and Chris are talking about is a problem of compilation and "best of" albums, rather than mp3 players. You can rip an entire album to mp3, or even flac if you're that upset by compression loss, and so long as you have the right player you can play the whole album in the original order. So you lose the sleeve notes - not a big problem if you're listening to music while driving.
Still, I can see why you need to keep the movements of a Beethoven symphony in the right order, or even an album like Tommy, but U2? Actually I quite like U2's music, but they do have a slightly inflated view of their own importance. How many bands play entire albums in the right order at live gigs?
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A live concert has its own pacing, I'm not a huge fan of those "touring the complete album" things which are all the rage now, it can lead to lifeless reproduction of the album sound. Though I did like what The Sparks did in London: Playing twenty-something nights at the same venue, each one devoted to an album of theirs complete and culminating in the presentation of their new (and very good) Let the Monkey Drive album.
I had no idea that an I-Pod could replicate the quality of a CD, all I ever hear is people bragging about how much they get on their I-Pods, never how good it sounds. I don't own one nor do I intend to. I like the comfort of 20-something CDs lying around in my car.
Uwe
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For me it all depends. Some albums need to be played in order for me to appreciate them. Others will do fine in a compilation.
But either way, Apple isn't at fault, and Neil's still a grumpy old man who doesn't understand freedom of choice.
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Tom, I agree, although Neil's passion doesn't move me. Just a matter of taste.
But that was just an aside, really. I think his blaming Apple is way off base, and it just amused me that someone as sloppy as Neil would be so concerned about sound quality.
I think Dave's right on here. I think Neil's a great rock song writer, but I've never really connected with his guitar playing (solos) or his passion. But hey, people buy his stuff, so he's got something for someone and that's what life's all about, isn't it!
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For me it all depends. Some albums need to be played in order for me to appreciate them. Others will do fine in a compilation.
But either way, Apple isn't at fault, and Neil's still a grumpy old man who doesn't understand freedom of choice.
thats 'cause Neil wasn't in Devo. ???
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thats 'cause Neil wasn't in Devo. ???
;D
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But either way, Apple isn't at fault, and Neil's still a grumpy old man who doesn't understand freedom of choice.
Dead right. All you can really blame Apple for is grabbing hold of the mp3 as a vehicle for selling music, helping to cement its popularity, and making money out of it. There's a lot of resentment in the music business over that, so it wouldn't surprise me if Mr Young didn't exactly think up that line for himself. The number of technology changes the music business hasn't seen coming and has treated as a threat rather than an opportunity, is so long it's hard to feel sympathy for them any more.
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I had no idea that an I-Pod could replicate the quality of a CD, all I ever hear is people bragging about how much they get on their I-Pods, never how good it sounds. I don't own one nor do I intend to. I like the comfort of 20-something CDs lying around in my car.
Uwe
You do have a Volvo, though, don't you? You could get a domestic hi-fi and a CD rack in there, and still have room for the drinks cabinet.
iPods are a bit of a special case, it's more of a lifestyle choice than anything. There's some viscious arguments in other places about how much audible difference compression makes and whether the players are good enough for you to notice anyway, especially in the car. I resisted for a long time, then gadget gas got the better of me. It's a Sandisk, though, not an iPod. The main criteria was I could see the screen without reading glasses. It sounds ok to me, but I've never been a hi-fi buff.
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You have like 120GB iPods now. You can put a lot of CDs at CD quality on those!!!
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When CD's first came out, Neil was complaining about how much worse they sounded than lps. He likes the old way. But for me it's a question of time. 25 years ago I had time to sit around and listen to albums and if I had time today, I would do that now. With life's demands, I'm totally happy to be able to listen to music in the car, in the shower, on my desk at work, while I'm making dinner, etc. I still have all my vinyl albums, but I sit down and listen to one from end to end maybe 3 times a year. In the car, there's no way I can tell the difference between a 256kb mp3 and a CD. Also, I think speakers are more important for the sound than the source. An iPod would sound good through the KLH speakers. And blaming Apple is ridiculous. They figured out a way to get some revenue for what people had been getting for free on Napster. mp3s would be the thing with or without Apple.