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[Alanko]

I sat thru the first movie and watched maybe 20 min. of the second. Calling it bad acting is being kind. It reminded me of the trash that is produced for the Lifetime or Hallmark networks.

So they kept true to the books then? 

[uwe]

 

Inspired by this beautiful thread that has finally tied the knots between Ritchie and Rand as well as Ayn and Autism/Asperger's, I did watch The Fountainhead on DVD over the weekend.

It's a proper movie alright, not some horrendous piece of crap. For a 1948 film, I found the visuals very early 30ies (bit Fritz Lang in there), the director had a silent movie background, that might be a reason, or the fact that WW II probably stunted movie esthetics development. The stone quarry scene (Dominique lays gaze on Howard drilling marble or granite for the first time, she returns with the riding crop after he has insolently stared at her), generally regarded as a cinematic highlight of the film, reminded me uncomfortably of Mauthausen (the notorious quarry concentration camp where death rates were especially high), but that was most likely not intentional.

The film is rushed in its delivery initially, characters being introduced at breakneck speed and only superficially. The pace then decreases even though some parts of the book are completely left out, for instance the title-giving fountainhead as a (later) part of a building that Howard begins but may not finish after a smear campaign of Toohey in The Banner. Howard's/Rand's objectivist manifesto (his courtroom speech after blowing up public housing in conflict with his artistic integrity) otoh has a full 15 minutes or so.

Gary Cooper (hand-picked by Frau Rand for the role) is just too old for the Howard character at the beginning, he's not a credible student dropping out (being fired) from architect school. Cooper has an aura, a most flexible actor he never was, he's here pretty much as he would later on be in High Noon. That said, as the older, more weathered Howard he's credible. Patricia Neal, an unknown quantity at the time, is cast well as Dominique, spoiled rotten, restless, afraid to love anything, yet yearning for submission, Lauren Bacall without the warmth and mystery. Raymond Massey as the cynical, yet "having the heart in the right place" publisher of The Banner is probably the character you can feel the most empathy with (though in Rand's plot he is ultimately a failure, probably because he cares too much for other people, e.g. Howard and Dominique). And Robert Douglas as Toohey delivers the cardboard arch-villain scheming-deceiving collectivist styled as from another age while everyone else looks pretty much like from the late 20ies. We are immediately spoon-fed that (i) collectivists are from the past and (ii) vile people.



I don't believe that even in the 20ies or 30ies you would have been allowed to blow up a public housing area in NYC and walk free from a criminal trial because the jury feels with you that as a "maker/creator" that was your God-, ooops, Ayn-given right (Howard didn't, after all, like the balconies they put on his design, so what else could he do?    ), but I was entertained. Howard's architecture implanted in the film (trying not so much to look realistic as avant garde-breathtaking) is nice too.

[Highlander]

Are we talking Plan 9 league of acting school...?

[Dave W]

I saw The Fountainhead many years ago. IIRC Rand did the screenplay which made me wonder why it turned out like it did. Impressive cast though.

[4stringer77]

Are we talking Plan 9 league of acting school...?

Almost... Patricia Neal was in "The Day the Earth Stood Still"
Uwe, if you like Massey, H.G. Wells' "Things To Come" is worth a watch if you haven't caught it yet.

[Dave W]

Are we talking Plan 9 league of acting school...?

Not in The Fountainhead, if that's what you're talking about. Not at all. The characters were stiff, but that's the way they were in the book. Patricia Neal was an Oscar winning actress.

If you meant the recent Atlas Shrugged movies, I wouldn't know.

[slinkp]

[4stringer77]

What a thespian!
Yes, Patricia Neal was great. The Day the Earth Stood Still absolutely lacks the Ed Wood campiness. Since someone posted a nun earlier, I thought I'd throw in this interview of a certain former actress. Interesting that Patricia had an affair with Gary which resulted in a terminated pregnancy. Must have been some real passion behind those Fountainhead scenes.

[Highlander]

Dave... meant the new one ... first saw Fountainhead about 20 years ago or more...

Blame it on my Rush influence, not... read Shrugged before I owned my First Rush recording... gifted the book whilst at school in early teens...

[wellREDman]

Ok apologies for taking a while to get round to answering your question Uwe.

the short answer is that there is no clear dividing line between Aspergers and Autism. the newest  version of DSM (the psychiatrist's diagnosis manual ) states that Aspergers is no longer a separate condition , that it is now high functioning autism.

They both revolve around difficulties with making sense of the world, but with lower functioning autism that relates to sight sound and touch, whereas with Aspergers they struggle to understand more complex social constructs such as emotions or sarcasm

the problem is that Autism research is a fiendishly tricky thing, teasing apart skeins of different symptoms such as ADHD, OCD, PDA, Dyslexia, Dyspraxia, body dysmorphia and obsessional behavior (trains, people, numbers) and trying to understand whether they are symptoms of ASD or separate conditions that are co-morbid with ASD. All of these conditions occur within the neurotypical community although in ASD patients they are more common, more intense and more likely to cluster in the same individual.

Hence the current definition of ASD: Autistic Spectrum Disorder the idea that we are all autistic to some degree, with mild dyslexia, social awkwardness  or OCD at one end , Aspergers a quarter of the way down and fully locked in, non verbal, rocking,  twitching Autistic at the other end.

So to answer your question in laymans terms, an Aspie (not derogatory that is how they describe themselves) is someone with ASD symptoms but enough verbal and comprehensive skills to often pass for neurotypical. in fact one of the problems with working with them is often their verbal skills so  high as  to give you a wrong impression about how much they are actually understanding their social milieu, and one of the theories about the male/female discrepancies in numbers is that female social aptitude means that many undiagnosed aspies are able to hide their difficulties

A good way of getting your head around it is popular characters, Rain man was Autistic, Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory is Aspergers (so much so that I wince when I watch it, so much of the humor is based around laughing at his disability)

I will caveat that I have only been working with ASD for 4 years during which i have encountered probably a 100 kids with autism so I am by no means an expert.

My previous assertion that Aspergers is a separate condition is based on my observations that the term " typical Aspie behavior"is often used whereas one of the defining characteristics of regular autism is that there is no typical autistic behavior, in fact one of our headmistress' favorite quotes is " once you know one child with autism... you know one child with autism"

Also, literally in the week after the draft DSM definition of ASD ,a study was published where a trial of a blood test for autism had a 70% accuracy, but when those with a previous Asperger's definition were removed from the figures the accuracy jumped to 97% implying that there is chemically something different going on

hope that helps

[uwe]

That's very interesting and helpful.

Also confirms what I (and people who know me well) know about me: obsessional behaviour, I guess as owner of close to 200 basses and some 4.000 CD's (about 1.000 of them DP-related, Airey, Blackmore, Bolin, Coverdale, Evans, Gillan, Glover, Hughes, Lord, Morse, Paice, Simper, Turner)  I can't talk myself out of that one, I've always collected even as a child.

But if inability to understand sarcasm is a sign of ASD, then I have been surrounded by Aspies all my life!!! The amount of people that either take as sarcasm when I'm serious or take a serious comment of mine as sarcasm/irony/cynicism has always been vast.

[nofi]

if part of  ocd behavior means people constantly bragging about the things they own, then you are not alone here by a longshot. emotions and verbal meanings are difficult to convey online. we know you well enough to get a handle on what your intentions are most of the time. about your purple cds, i think you only need 5 or 6 to have all the good ones.

[uwe]

I don't think that Aspies brag, they hoard and do not really want to share it with anyone.

The five or six vital DP albums? Easy:

Book of Taliesyn
Machine Head
Burn
Come Taste the Band
House of Blue Light (Slaves & Masters if you want to give JLT his credit, it's a very organic and well-written album)
Purpendicular (or Now What?!)

Listen to those six albums and you'll understand the Purple ingredients that never change:

guitar riffs, Hammond groove and swinging drums

plus

that based on these pillars they were a diverse band: 60ies prog, blues, heavy rock, funk, jazz influence and pop.

[uwe]

This isn't quite as Eurovision as their usual singles ... The eyewear remains an acquired taste though, must be some type of running gag of Ritchie not conforming to expectations even in his self-chosen renaissance niche. He never wears shades (of Deep Purple or other) on stage with this band.

[Highlander]

When we first started living together and moved all our stuff into one place, Jackie noted that I had a "few" collections and gave up counting at 22... not sure if it's worse or better (he say's, lying thru his teeth, in full sarcasm mode...

Roshina summed me up with a the 11 words in a Jill Sobule throw-away number at one of her concerts...

"The ritalin kid, the ritalin kid; hey... look at that squirrel..." (fading away from the mike...)

We know plenty of stuff about mental health (what an oxymoron) in our family, on both sides going back over the years... must be something to do with the sheep...