The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Fender Basses => Topic started by: godofthunder on April 24, 2013, 01:37:06 PM
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What do you guys think of this idea? I was at the HOG today and the Fender rep was there, Bruce said I should chat him up and fill his head with ideas. I suggested a 60's slab body Precision ala Live at Leeds. The rep told me they had done some through the custom shop......................... I told him that if I was going to spend that kind of money I'd buy another 60's Thunderbird. I suggested that they build it so boomers or young cats who are into Entwistle can actually afford one, MIM or MIJ would be fine, I would pay a bit of a premium for MIA but it wouldn't be a deal breaker. I played the new MIM nitro 50's P bass today and that is one nice bass, don't care where they made it.
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Cool idea but the bass on Live at Leeds was not a slab Precision, it was a bass that he called Frankenstein. According to his notes in Bass Culture, the book about his collection, that bass was put together from the parts of five smashed basses. The neck, pickups and electronics came from a slab bass, the bridge from a Jazz bass and the rest of the parts came from other Precisions.
I would still love to own a reissue slab bass if they make one because of the almost mythical status that the originals have. :)
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Huh? I thought it was slabs that he smashed to build Frankenstien.
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same here
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I can definitely see a forearm contour on Frankenstein's body in the picture in the book. There is also a slab Precision in the book, he mentions Frankenstein in the notes for that bass saying that the pickups and tone circuit gave the slab bass a raunchier tone.
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I know I have the book and a '75 guitar player interview with him. I thought I read somewhere that that during a refinish Frankenstien acquired the contours............... I could certainly be wrong.
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Quote page25 BASS CULTURE..."I immediately fell in love with them-the maple neck-the telecaster blue vein white body and a square edge body with a split pickup was unheard of then...The only survivor of my three 'slab' basses is 'Frankenstein' featured elsewhere in this book"
The next 3 pages are Frankenstein' pictures and state that, "I had it refinished from from sunburst to its present pink colour."
If quote one is taken to mean all the 'Slabs' were Blonde (Mary Kay White) then according to quote two 'Frankenstein' is not a slab. The actual picture of 'Frankenstein' is inconclusive to me. It definitely does not have a "square edge body"...but neither does the other, also refinned slab on P 25.
Maybe no contours but definitely NOT Tele 'square edges'
Buy the book and draw your own conclusion...
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Maybe a better question is what is the definitive Entwistle Precision? Black and rose wood from the Isle of Wight? Black and Maple from Whos's Next? The Blond Slabs?
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This explains Frankenstien pretty clearly contoured body it is.http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/gear/bass/bass6768.html#frankenstein
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Cool! There are also some pix with a slab if you follow the "slab" link
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/ME/66_jae-docks_zps8433390e.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/ME/66_jae-docks_zps8433390e.jpg.html)
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/ME/jae-67-pbass_zpsfc5ba2be.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/ME/jae-67-pbass_zpsfc5ba2be.jpg.html)
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Yeah they should build a three knob slab, that would be cool!
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I think it's a great idea! The "slab" P is a mythical thing and just think - 10 minutes for a designer to modify one of Fender's 50 or so existing CNC P body files and the everything else comes from existing stock. It would probably cost more money to create a new serial number grouping and to enter the product into accounting programs. A little gorilla marketing and it work sell itself.
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I think it's a great idea! The "slab" P is a mythical thing and just think - 10 minutes for a designer to modify one of Fender's 50 or so existing CNC P body files and the everything else comes from existing stock. It would probably cost more money to create a new serial number grouping and to enter the product into accounting programs. A little gorilla marketing and it work sell itself.
Would they need to modify the body shape? Isn't it the same as the '51 style slab body but with '57 features?
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Fender has made quite a game of mixing body styles and hardware to make short run instruments.
As I recall the Frankenstein Entwistle bass was the guts and neck from a slab 66 bolted to a regular burst P-bass body. Too bad that they had the reissue 66 bass both fairly expensive and discontinued after a short period. I have yet to hear of anyone who ever saw one in a shop.
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Yeah they should build a three knob slab, that would be cool!
What's the third knob for?
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I have no idea I know someone I can ask.
What's the third knob for?
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Would they need to modify the body shape? Isn't it the same as the '51 style slab body but with '57 features?
They would need to omit the forearm and belly cuts as well as reduce the edge radius I believe. Seems like everything else would be the same.
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larry taylor of canned heat played a slab for awhile. that's one more accounted for.
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They would need to omit the forearm and belly cuts as well as reduce the edge radius I believe. Seems like everything else would be the same.
What I meant was that they already have bodies like that, for the '51 Precision RI. Or at least Fender Japan does. They would just have to combine the programming for that body with the programming for the '57 (and later) electronics and bridge routing and drilling.
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larry taylor of canned heat played a slab for awhile. that's one more accounted for.
Cool I never knew that!
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Andy Babiuk bassist for the Chesterfield Kings owner of Fab Gear and also wrote the book Beatles Gear is a good friend of mine he is going to ask Alan Rogan (guitar tech for the Who since '74) about the Slab basses and the third control.
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I hope your friend can give the definitive answer about that knob. I went Googling and found two possibilities: one of them is that the bass was rewired for stereo output and the other is that Peter Cook had added a phase switch and a bass boost from a Gibson EB2 or Epiphone Rivoli. When you look at the picture below there could be a toggle switch between the tug bar and the first knob. A bass boost seems a little bit unlikely to me though because he was trying to get a more trebly sound around that time, using roundwound strings.
(http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/images/bass/fenderslabprec-backstage.jpg)
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What's the third knob for?
That's the "Awesome" knob. Turn up for maximum awesomeness. ;D
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I wonder if he had a onboard distortion? Not unprecedented, Jim Lea of Slade had a onboard distortion circuit installed by John Birch on his '65 EB3. Jim Lea was certainly influenced by Entwistle and John was a big fan of Jimmy.
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That's the "Awesome" knob. Turn up for maximum awesomeness. ;D
John didn't need a awesome knob............................ though I could certainly benefit from one.
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I am struck while digging through The Who tabs site (I have viewed this site many times but it has been a while) just how quickly John's gear changed and how far he was trying to push the envelope of the bass guitar and amplification, especially in the early years. He would try most anything, the most glaring obvious dead end is that Grestch bass. I have played one of those...................................what a dog you may as well play a upright. Just bringing this topic up reinforces what a innovator he was.
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He was definitely an innovator. I could not find better pictures of the bass so I went through my Who DVDs and found this on Amazing Journey. The three knobs are clearly visible and so is the switch that I thought I saw in the other picture. He is even using a wireless system here, imagine that in 1966. ;)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y151/John_RSC/Bas/screen_slab_zps354ac825.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/John_RSC/media/Bas/screen_slab_zps354ac825.jpg.html)
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perhaps the switch is series/parallel for the pickup.
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Independent coil contols?
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I posted the question on another forum and got an answer. There is book about these basses: 'Fender Bass For Britain -The History of the 1966 Slab-Bodied Precision Bass' written by Barry Matthews.
A tech suggested John's recently-bought slab bass have an extra jack socket and volume control fitted so John could dispense with his split lead and have control over his two Sound City stacks from his bass. He agreed - and, 'it sounded awful'. John asked him to put it back how it was. He couldn't and John bought his second slab soon after, which he then smashed at a gig at The Cow Palace in San Francisco. The neck from this bass was later used to make Frankenstein.
The thingy that I mistook for a switch is actually the second jack socket.
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This picture ans explanation makes sense.
I posted the question on another forum and got an answer. There is book about these basses: 'Fender Bass For Britain -The History of the 1966 Slab-Bodied Precision Bass' written by Barry Matthews.The thingy that I mistook for a switch is actually the second jack socket.
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Here we go. Just need a time machine.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/resources/article/Fender-Custom-Shop-1966-Slab-Body-P-Bass/m712216
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A time machine and $4.000. ;)
I am thinking about building one myself. A Warmoth '51 body in Mary Kay white routed for a split pickup could be a good start.
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Well looks like they did build it :( 4k? Geeze Id be hard pressed to pay that for a Tbird. Sure looks cool though.
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OY! Anybody that wants a body I'll knock one out for a bargain at just $2K! :rolleyes: :P
Seriously, less than $40 for wood a couple of hours of work and you have the body. Find a nice neck and drop in a Thunderbucker, or pickup of your choosing, and you are done.
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This has been batted around on other forums quite a bit, but it is obviously easier and cheaper to build one yourself. I suppose at some point, maybe last year, the fact that the custom shop edition from a few years ago is just as rare as the originals then they will be worth more than $4 G's. But it is relatively easy to get the slab body, even pre-finished, from Warmoth or Edenhaus among others. The neck is the only oddity as it was a maple cap with a 60s profile. In other words, a Roger Waters bass neck, which is available daily on ebay for $350-400. That is about what a copy neck would cost. Swap the nut and put a 64-68 decal with a tad of refinning, and there you go. Edenhaus will make one. Hardware is off the shelf 60s reissue, and pickguard is 70s black. Or you could order a Fender custom shop one off for the price of a good used car, and pay them for technically doing less work than they do on any 62 ri bass. I have been planning to do one for 15 years, but they are so easy to do that I keep putting it off. I have had the decal for years!
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Independent coil contols?
Nah. Model One hidden under the pickguard. ;D
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What's the third knob for?
Entwistle was asked that a few years back and said he couldn't remember. Maybe he didn't want to say?
Re Frankenstein being made from a slab P Bass neck and electronics, yes, that's correct.
Mid '60s P-Basses tend to have that aggressive growly Live At Leeds sound as opposed to the more hi-fi tone more typical of late '50s-early '60s P-basses (maple neck/spit PU and slab 'board with black bobbin PUs). The maple cap neck likely brought that aggressive tone out even more. The ash body of the slab body would probably have done so even more...
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Black and Maple from Whos's Next?
He says he used the Frankenstein on "Won't Get Fooled Again" but many of the songs on that album sound like Thunderbird to me. For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QbCNVxBTNo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QbCNVxBTNo)
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tough to call. that could a pbass too.. very one pickup midrangey sound to me and where he hits the strings is more of his sound than any pickups he used. his live sound is something else however as you can cleary here what amps and bass he is using on any live recordings
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tough to call. that could a pbass too.. very one pickup midrangey sound to me and where he hits the strings is more of his sound than any pickups he used. his live sound is something else however as you can cleary here what amps and bass he is using on any live recordings
Here's a P bass:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxBF6tZbzIA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxBF6tZbzIA)
Compared to that "Going Mobile" is definitely a Thunderbird. Here's "Sea And Sand" isolated which is a T-Bird or a Fenderbird (most likely the latter):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jahyctvDbRc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jahyctvDbRc)
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tough to call. that could a pbass too.. very one pickup midrangey sound to me and where he hits the strings is more of his sound than any pickups he used. his live sound is something else however as you can cleary here what amps and bass he is using on any live recordings
I have to disagree with you about Goin' Mobile... I'm with Pekka, that doesn't sound anything like a single-pickup sound to me. Based on the tone and the attack I'd say thunderbird IV with both pups on. The final mix has a lot of the treble rolled off, but I hear a similar character on some other songs like Bargain and Love Ain't for Keeping.
Won't Get Fooled Again though, not sure, it sounds different to me, but it's hard for me to guess from the final mix which is very bassy. That and Baba O'Riley are from a different session at a different studio, and I haven't heard an isolated bass track of the album version. Could be a P-bass, I really can't say.
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Won't Get Fooled Again though, not sure, it sounds different to me, but it's hard for me to guess from the final mix which is very bassy. That and Baba O'Riley are from a different session at a different studio, and I haven't heard an isolated bass track of the album version. Could be a P-bass, I really can't say.
A bit of googling later I've changed my mind, this sounds rather T-birdish to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFGTrOhy9RA
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFGTrOhy9RA)
And THIS is a P bass:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aAbED59mhI&list=PLD69137AC2749CD87 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aAbED59mhI&list=PLD69137AC2749CD87)
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I think Entwistle changed to Thunderbirds when the Who tried to record at the Record Plant NY March 1971 or when they started again at Olympic studios UK. The Young Vic recording from April 26th featured on "Who's Next" 2CD Deluxe is definitely a Thunderbird but still with the Hiwatt rig. The liners have a pic of John playing a Precision but the picture is erroneously dated (and corrected on the book "Anywhere Anyhow Anywhere") and is really from late 1970 Young Vic rehearsal.
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Also, there are Young Vic pics with a non-reverse T-bird which pre-date the UK Who's Next sessions.
(http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/images/bass/71youngvic_tbird.jpg)
Hard to be sure without having been there, but I'm inclined to say that Entwistle's memory was wrong.
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Hiwatts and Thunderbirds... 8)
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Nonreverse Thunderbirds 8)
Hiwatts and Thunderbirds... 8)
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Could it also be that Entwistle played non-reverse 'birds first and only later in 1971 got a reverse? After that he used both until he switched to Fenderbirds in 1973.
He also used a reverse again in 1975 during his solo shows.
http://britrockbythebay.blogspot.fi/2011/09/john-entwistles-ox-february-1975.html (http://britrockbythebay.blogspot.fi/2011/09/john-entwistles-ox-february-1975.html)