The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Fender Basses => Topic started by: hieronymous on May 24, 2008, 08:16:43 PM
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Back in the early '90s, a friend offered me a mid-'70s Telecaster Bass. He loved P-Basses, and was offering me the Tele because he never played it. He had had it refinished black, but his greatest sin was trying to turn it from the later humbucker-equipped version to the earlier single-coil version. Then he decided that he didn't like the sound of the single-coil pickup and had it routed for a regular split-coil pup. Fortunately or unfortunately, I don't have any pictures of it in that state. Anyway, he sold it to me for $250!
I used to drool over the mid-'80s Fender Japan reissue version, black with black pickguard and the humbucker, so I asked Jim Mouradian if he could find a humbucker for it. He found a NOS in the box at a guitar show for $100, and I had him put it in with probably a Warmoth replacement pickguard. At various times either one or the other pup was wired exclusively (so the other wasn't usable), or at one time I had them wired together so instead of volume & tone, it was volume/volume for each pup. The Telecaster humbucker is very high-powered, kind of like a mudbucker (though with more mids), so you either had the P at one volume, the 'bucker at least twice as loud, and together they were closer to the P volume but with a really round, fat tone. Oh yeah, he put a Badass II on it as well.
Here's a (bad) pic of it as it ended up:
(http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/4530/telehall2wg2.jpg)
And a close-up (I wish I had taken a few just regular shots when I had the chance!):
(http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4114/telebothpupsmz6.jpg)
There were two things that I really liked about this bass. One was the neck - kind of like a baseball bat sawn in half! I like thin necks too, but sometimes a fat chunky neck is what you need to get you (or me that is) to stop overplaying! The other thing was that the G-string was just as fat and powerful as the other strings, unlike my MIJ Jazz whose G-string could be kind of thin compared to the others.
But then I stopped playing (back around '95), and it languished in its case. I never really liked the finish or the P pup. When I found a used set of Alembic Activators for $275 (they usually go for close to a grand!), I jumped on them. I've also been jonesing for a "root beer" finish lately (though I found out it's really called "mocha"), so I got in touch with our very own Boston Guitar Repair, and shipped it out to him last week. He just called me today, we talked about what's going to be done with it. I'm going to have it refinned mocha, he's going to cut a black pickguard for me, tweaked slightly from the original design to cover the hole for the single-coil (even if the hole gets plugged, since mocha is a transparent finish):
(http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8275/teleppup2bnv4.jpg)
I want the pickups wired completely independently, so he's looking into routing another hole on the side next to the current one, though I think I'm going to have the humbucker go through the original plug and the Alembic controls and plug all top-mounted. I also put on an old MIJ reissue bridge.
I'll update as details come in - also, BGR will probably blog it as well!
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Good luck with the project. $250 is a great deal in any condition.
I've also been jonesing for a "root beer" finish lately (though I found out it's really called "mocha
The official designation was Walnut. Not to be confused with real walnut Fenders, like the walnut Telecaster (George Harrison), walnut P Special or the walnut Elite P.
I just sold a '73 J in this color.
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Are the Activators soapbar style? And am I understanding correctly that you're planning to replace the neck humbucker with one of them?
I'm surprised that the neck is thick. That was typical of the 68-71 single coil models, but my 77 and other humbucker era examples I've played all have had what I'd call average thickness necks.
I believe Ilan is right about the official name of the color according to Fender.
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Are the Activators soapbar style? And am I understanding correctly that you're planning to replace the neck humbucker with one of them?
No, sorry, I should have been more clear - they are P-Bass shaped Activators, so I'm going to leave the humbucker (which I love!) and replace the P-Bass-pup-of-unknown-provenance.
I'm surprised that the neck is thick. That was typical of the 68-71 single coil models, but my 77 and other humbucker era examples I've played all have had what I'd call average thickness necks.
According to the serial number locator that I found, mine's from '73-'74. So maybe that was a transitional time?
I believe Ilan is right about the official name of the color according to Fender.
Yeah, I like root beer as a name myself, but then I thought, root beer isn't really that color, but it's kind of the color of a root beer or coke float after the ice cream has mixed together, so how about "coke float"?
And I love that bass Ilan!
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Whatever you call it, it seems to be one of those love it or hate it colors. I don't know why, it's not really controversial like Antigua.
Maybe the neck just feels thick to you by comparison, or maybe it really is, but I've played a few humbucker models from 72 onwards and they were all reasonable to me. The 68-71s are flat out too thick for me to play.
Since the Activator is P-shaped then at least that won't present any problems, all you have to do is cover up the single coil rout.
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The official designation was Walnut. Not to be confused with real walnut Fenders, like the walnut Telecaster (George Harrison), walnut P Special or the walnut Elite P.
I believe Ilan is right about the official name of the color according to Fender.
I found something on the net that appears to have the real name of this color:
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6498/colorchartxr9.jpg)
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You just can't trust those color charts. In person it's more like slightly sun-bleached poo. ;)
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George Harisson had a Rosewood Telecaster; not walnut.
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I found something on the net that appears to have the real name of this color:
Hey - it really is poo brown! ;D ;)
Nice bass- can't wait to see and hear the outcome. Does that Fender mud yield the same strong fundamental for you as the Gibsons when you use it in a fuzzed-out context? I played one in a shop years ago - I remember it being extra woofy!
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Does that Fender mud yield the same strong fundamental for you as the Gibsons when you use it in a fuzzed-out context? I played one in a shop years ago - I remember it being extra woofy!
I haven't really played it much lately, but my impression is that the Fender humbucker has more pronounced mids than my late-'60s Gibson mudbuckers. The output is huge as well, very mudbuckerish. The lows are not lacking at all, but whether or not they approach the massive sub-bass of the mudbuckers I don't quite remember.
My plan for this bass is to run the pickups separately into the SF-2, using the low-pass to emphasize the lows of the humbucker and either band-pass or low-pass to emphasize the mids of the Alembic pup. I plan on having it strung with flats, but that could change.
Oh, and I've been thinking of a name for it - "Telembicaster" is too long, I think I like "Telembic"...
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I haven't really played it much lately, but my impression is that the Fender humbucker has more pronounced mids than my late-'60s Gibson mudbuckers. The output is huge as well, very mudbuckerish. The lows are not lacking at all, but whether or not they approach the massive sub-bass of the mudbuckers I don't quite remember.
That's an accurate description. Plenty of lows but dominated by loud, muddy and angry mids. As Fatdog of Subway Guitars says, it's got that fart-in-the-bathtub tone.
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One of my favorite songs to use the Telecaster on was when my band played Paul Simon's "Late in the Evening." It's not a blues, but the progression is basically I-IV-V, starting on F. The bass line is basically the root, then octave-9th-octave. On my MIJ Jazz Bass, I would have to play the IV and V chords all on the E & D strings, because if I tried to play the Bb and C on the A & G strings, the octave notes on the G would just disappear. But on the Telecaster, those octave notes on the G were just so clean and strong. Plus, the sound with flats was perfect - in the band setting it gave that nice cushiony bottom, leaving room for everything up top.
Hopefully that made sense!
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George Harisson had a Rosewood Telecaster; not walnut.
Absolutely right. I had a blond moment there.
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I forgot to report - Krishna got the bass and took off most of the black finish. Guess what color was underneath? Poo brown - er, I mean coke float. So this bass is coming full circle. Sure would have been nice if my friend hadn't changed it in the first place, but then I wouldn't have gotten it for $250!
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My bass is almost done! Here is Krishna's blog entry on it. (http://guitargarage.blogspot.com/2008/06/1973-telecaster-bass-re-modification.html) I am going to pick it up tomorrow, and hopefully use it on a gig and in the studio over the weekend. I'll be back with a fuller report after that.
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Always love reading that blog.
That's looking real nice - it has sort of a "root beer" hue about it, which I like a lot:
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg234/bostonguitarrepair/1973%20Telecaster%20Bass/IMG_5109.jpg)
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Picked up the bass today! Don't have any good detail pics, but got one shot of me putting it through its paces tonight:
(http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/3373/teleknotsa7.jpg)
It sounded really good. Didn't hurt that I was playing it through a nice rig. The string-to-string balance needs a little bit of work, and I only used the Alembic pup tonight. The filter is cool - there are a couple of sounds that aren't that usable, but more that are killer.
Gonna try to take a few pics of it in natural sunlight the next couple of days.
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Cool! I can't wait to see them!
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Natural or unnatural sunlight ;), I just want to see it clearly.
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Natural or unnatural sunlight ;), I just want to see it clearly.
Your wish is my command!
(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5715/telebrownbody2me5.jpg)
(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/571/telebrownbody1na3.jpg)
Not the greatest pictures, but they should give an idea. The finish looks different in both - hard to say which is more accurate. Been playing it a fair amount - really enjoying it!
Added one more of me playing it:
(http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/4702/telebrownstudio1vx1.jpg)
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The middle pic looks like what I remember the color ought to look like. Hard to see the others well enough.
The transition from the pickguard to the P pickup looks almost like it was original. Nicely done. Usually the added P looks out of place.
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Nice work ! that bass looks beautiful, love the color ! I had a factory CAR one years ago, wish I still had it .
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Sweet! Nice little board behind ya there too :o
Strings look like flats(?) - what'd you end up using after you got rid of the Jamersons?
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Thanks for the comments - I think Krishna did a great job, and it sounds pretty darn good if I do say so myself! Who knew that active pickups could sound so warm? Of course, it doesn't hurt that it's going through an Alembic F-2B preamp and a vintage compressor.
We recorded some tonight, and I threw together a demo, because I want to rerecord this again tomorrow night:
rays of sound (oxbow demo) (http://hieronymous.us/music/rays_rough4b.mp3)
I put a fresh set of D'Addario Chromes on it today, played with fingers with the Alembic pickups with the filter wide open. Plus there's a distorted bass track that's the humbucker into a Budda Phat Bass distortion and EH Small Stone, through the F-2B of course. The synth is an MFB Synth Lite II through the Alembic. All three of those tracks are also being squished a bit by the compressor (can't remember what at the moment) so they sound nice and syrupy. The Rhodes part is in Reason, and is just a rough track to give an idea of the original (http://hieronymous.us/music/rays_of_sound.mp3).
(On listening to it on my computer for the first time, I realize that the level is pretty low overall. And it will definitely sound better on computer speakers.)
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Looks like Krishna has done well.
Cool how it was Mocha before too!!
So give us the scoop & more pics!!!
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Still haven't had a chance to take pictures in natural light - we've been busy, and it's been cloudy and rainy here in Marlborough, MA lately. But my wife was experimenting with her camera while we were recording, and she said this is the most accurate shot of the color she could get given the lighting and conditions:
(http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/8427/telebrownbodytruekm8.jpg)
I think it might even be a little bit more red, almost more like a wine color. Here's another shot just to confuse you:
(http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/9972/telebrownchairke0.jpg)
It's definitely not this light - Krishna said that it's difficult to photograph translucent finishes well, and I believe him now!
Here's another track from the first night - the filter is set in the midrange somewhere: sambhava (http://hieronymous.us/music/sambhava.mp3)
We recorded some good stuff last night. Who knew you could slap with flats? I didn't! 8B4 (http://hieronymous.us/music/8B4.mp3)
I had the filter open almost all the way, but I didn't realize that I also had the bright switch engaged on the F-2B!
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That Activator setup seems to do the job nicely - tight lows, well balanced mids, and not brittle on the highs. The lack of mids and brittle highs are what kinda turn me off a bit with some active setups (my 2eq Stingray, for example - just my tastes, though).
Nice sound on the slap, too!
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Hey Harry - glad you like how the Tele Bass turned out - that is an interesting pickup, that Alembic - hmm, may have to keep my eyes open - though I'd still say I'm a "grey bottom" guy.
The color came out a bit darker than I had hoped - I had to go darker to cover up some flaws in the wood left over from prior refins and concurrent undercoat damage on the edges - plus one big divot in the middle of the back that I had to dig old bondo out of and then lacquer fill (tried cyanocrylate/crazy glue first but it looked terrible).
I wish I had an actual 73 UNFADED Fender in mocha to see what it looked like new - I had a (borrowed) 74 Mocha Strat many years ago, and I remember it being a walnut-ey reddish brown, but then I see all these pictures of other Mocha Fenders online that are definitely a yellowish "feces" brown (I'm sorry, that's what it looks like !!) - maybe the red element fades out over time ??
There were some areas of original finish on the edges of the body that WERE a darker color, and thats what I used as my guide. If I were to do it again, maybe a little less red and add a little lemon yellow.
One tidbit of info - I used a maple plug for the Tele-style pickup route that had been added (its under the new slightly extended guard I made Henry) and it matches almost perfectly under the translucent brown, even though the body was ash.
Also - as impressed as I was with the sound of the Alembic pickup, I was more surprised by the sound of the stock Fender humbucker - very different from the Gibson mudbucker, more bite and tighter bottom end - anybody here tried a Fender humbucker in an EB-0 ?? I bet it'd sound good !
Thanks for all the kind comments also guys !
krishna
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Krishna updated his blog post on the Telembic (http://guitargarage.blogspot.com/2008/06/1973-telecaster-bass-re-modification.html). I've got some more recordings in the can too - I'll post when I can. The bass itself is still back in Massachusetts, waiting to be shipped back to me here in CA - I just got in last night, despite a four-hour delay, someone passing out on the plane near the end of the flight, and nearly falling asleep on the hour-and-a-half drive home after midnight...
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Here's one of the tracks I posted before, but longer and with guitar overdubs by my buddy Damon (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=71097191) who also owns Oxbow Studios (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=389030922) where much of the music I've done over the past six years has been recorded:
8B4X4 (http://hieronymous.us/music/8B4X4.mp3)
My playing is sloppy in places, but I think the overdubs make it more listenable.
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The Telembic sounds great!
Nice looking studio too. I think I saw a Mellotron in the myspace pics - have you used that on anything?
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Nice looking studio too. I think I saw a Mellotron in the myspace pics - have you used that on anything?
Unfortunately, no. I usually only record backing tracks at this studio, then take those and overdub back at home. It's weird too, because I used to be a HUGE fan of Mellotron stuff - Genesis, King Crimson, Yes. But then again, it's only been the past couple of years that I've become a bit more confident in my keyboard playing, so maybe next time I will take a stab at it!
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I found something else that I recorded with the Telembic and forgot about - it's a demo for a full-band version of my Buddhist podcast. The drum track is great, the bass part needs to be rerecorded to be harmonically correct, and everything else was recorded really quickly just so I could give the drummer an idea of what I wanted. But it didn't really matter, because I am going to use this take. Anyway, here it is:
rays of sound (http://hieronymous.us/podcast/rays_of_sound_band.mp3)
(The volume of the recording is pretty low) The Telembic is on both the bass part and the distorted part that is doubling the keyboard melody (effects being Budda Phatbass and EH Small Stone).
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Coooool, hieronymous! Sounds slick!
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Thanks R'n'B! It's weird, I'm really happy with it as a demo, despite the fact that it is so imperfect - I think it's because of the feel of the original drum and bass tracks. The next challenge is rerecord the bass part (and hopefully maintain the magic) and overdub new synth etc. stuff on top.
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I cleaned up one of the songs I posted earlier in this thread - fixed a couple of things, did some more panning, and then mastered it with my snazzy new mastering plug-in Ozone3:
8B4X4 mastered (http://hieronymous.us/music/8B4X4_master.mp3)
It's definitely louder and brighter than the original mix, but it's also the first time I tried to master a track, so any comments are appreciated.
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Harry, that is a beauty. Hell of a job by Krishna.
As for Mellotrons we carried 2 on the road with us in the 70's & early 80's. Pain in the ASS. No staying in tune, always repairing them......definitely not roadworthy but when all was right they sounded SO good.
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Wow, very nice! Sorry we missed this one in the Project forum. Nicely done!
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When I found a used set of Alembic Activators for $275 (they usually go for close to a grand!)
:o :o :o they WHAT??? :o :o
(slinkp looks at his battered mojo activator-equipped ibanez blazer with a little more appreciation)
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I like the way those flats sound with slap. What other stuff are you using in there? what keyboards(s)? guitars (or baritone)? and what was responsible for that bit o' reversed guitar?
The remix/remastering really made a difference!
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Upon listening to the remaster in the car, I realized that there was some tubbiness to the low-mids and the mid-mids/high-mids were lacking, so I redid it again:
8B4X4 mastered again (http://hieronymous.us/music/8B4X4_master2.mp3)
And here's the original mix for comparison: 8B4X4 pre-mastering (http://hieronymous.us/music/8B4X4_newmix.mp3)
Here's the story behind the song: It was basically just a drum & bass jam. The strings are D'Addario Chromes, pretty new, with the filter on the Alembic pups turned all the way up, and the bright switch engaged on the F-2B (by accident!). I had brought along a few toys for that trip: the new Boss Space Echo pedal, and the MFB Synth Lite II. My friend had an Oxygen keyboard which I used to control the MFB via MIDI, and we printed those tracks with the Space Echo. I wasn't particularly happy with my synth parts, it was more just experimenting.
The next day, I go into the studio and Damon (the engineer) had stayed up tinkering with the track (he's a real night owl). He picked the bits of the synth playing that he liked, and added his '80s reissue Strat, recorded through the F-2B as well (he was blown away by it - David Gilmour is his idol, and Gilmour used a modded F-2B, but Damon was impressed with it unmodded). All the guitar bits are assembled from a variety of tracks. As for the reversed guitar, I'm not sure what he did! But it's easy enough in ProTools to flip things around.
At the time he said that he wasn't too happy with what he played either, but I think both of us came around, I think the synth & guitar bits fit the song, which is really just an excuse for a drum & bass jam!
I'm glad I reposted in this thread for those who didn't get to see it the first time around!
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As for the reversed guitar, I'm not sure what he did! But it's easy enough in ProTools to flip things around.
That reminds me of a video I saw up on Sonicstate involvong some strange vocal reversals. Kinda creepy! Very David Lynch/Twin Peaks.
http://tv.sonicstate.com/play.php?vid=203
As for Mellotrons......definitely not roadworthy but when all was right they sounded SO good.
Coincidentially, I noticed the same lady posted a nice demo clip of one of the new Mellotrons. That thing sounds amazing!
http://tv.sonicstate.com/play.php?vid=174
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Been posting about my Rickenbacker cousins in this thread (http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=2510.0), but I also used my Telembic:
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/327/teleoxbowstereo1.jpg)
In this pic you can see I'm running it in stereo - if you remember, Krishna outfitted it with a copy of a Rickenbacker jack-plate. You can tell it's fake, because it says "stereo-sound" instead of "Ric-O-Sound," which is appropriate because it is just two mono outputs, one for each pickup, instead of one mono and one stereo jack like Rics. I think it sounded great, the original humbucker has some nice deep bass that isn't immediately apparent with the Alembic pups, but the Alembics let you dial in the classic P-Bass midrange growl.
I'll post some new soundclips when I get the chance!
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That is stunning !
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That is stunning !
Thanks - I used to have a love-hate relationship with this bass, but since Krishna refinned it and put in the Alembic pup, it's 100% love!
Here's another shot - too much flash on the body, but you can see other things more clearly (I'm also still running it in mono here):
(http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/8161/teleoxbowmono1.jpg)
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When that color came out I didn't like it much but I have to say I really like it now !
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When that color came out I didn't like it much but I have to say I really like it now !
Hey GOT - sorry I missed this post - I was going to say that the color this bass ended up as is a little different than the traditional poop brown mocha/whatever it's called - it strikes me as a little bit richer, maybe a little bit more red. I like to think of it as root beer...
Anyway, here's a couple of more shots:
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7532/teleoxbowincandescent1.jpg)
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3892/teleoxbowbody.jpg)
The lighting is different in both - you can tell by looking at my shirt that the first shot has a bit more red, also no flash, while the second one was taken with flash.
I also went nuts with some soundclips - they're all the same performance, but with different pickups. I named the jam "tamanegi" (onion in Japanese - don't ask why, cuz I don't know!), there are little flubs here and there, but I thought it might be fun:
humbucker only (http://hieronymous.us/music/tamanegi_humbucker.mp3)
Alembic Activators only (http://hieronymous.us/music/tamanegi_activator.mp3)
both pickups (http://hieronymous.us/music/tamanegi_both.mp3)
A word of caution - this is not a scientific study! We worked harder on the Alembic sound than the humbucker - each pickup is going separately into separate channels of an Alembic F-2B preamp, and to tell the truth the humbucker was more of an afterthought. I should also point out that I didn't work too hard on the recording with both pickups - they are panned a little bit left and right, pretty much equal volume. If I were going to do it right, I think I would mainly use the Alembic pup and then add in a bit of the humbucker to beef it up. The humbucker sounds really midrangey on the track by itself, but it actually blends in nicely.
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I love that colour.
Does the humbucker in this bear any relation to what they've put in the Squier Modified Precision TB?
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I love that colour.
Does the humbucker in this bear any relation to what they've put in the Squier Modified Precision TB?
No, it just looks the same. The new ones are standard humbucker construction with steel polepieces and an alnico bar magnet underneath put into an old style cover. The original has threaded cunife magnets as polepieces and is way overwound.
Here's the innards of the original style:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/davepix/Basses/Fender_Lover_BassPickup.jpg)
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Been meaning to post this for a while - a tune I posted in the "post your music" thread but with a bass-only track so you can hear the sound of the Alembic Activator pickups:
ostronato bass (http://hieronymous.us/music/ostronato_bass.mp3)
Here it is with everything else on top:
ostronato extract (http://hieronymous.us/music/ostronato_extract.mp3)
It's the P-Bass Activators through an Alembic F-2B preamp, a dbx 162 compressor, then into ProTools. Until this song I had been playing with my fingers, but switched to a heavy pick. I had the filter pretty open, and as soon as we started playing, I realized that it sounded kind of too "trebly" with the pick. I remember turning down the filter as I was playing, and thinking that I had ruined the track! But I kept playing. In hindsight, I think it sounds great! The different filter settings totally change the mood. Obviously Greg's drumming has a lot to do with the different moods, but I think the variety of tones that the Activators make possible had a huge impact too.
I guess I should point out too that the Rhodes electric piano is also going through the same signal chain, with a Budda Phat Bass distortion as well. Most of the keyboard parts were improvised and overdubbed afterwards - the section in the "extract" took several overdubs to get right, so not as "spontaneous" as the rest.
Here's the entire piece: ostronato (alphaomegamix) (http://hieronymous.us/music/ostronato_alphaomegamix.mp3)
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Great tone... there's a lot of your music that is "out there", but in a thoroughly enjoyable way... 8)
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Great tone... there's a lot of your music that is "out there", but in a thoroughly enjoyable way... 8)
Thank you sir - it helps that ultimately I don't make my music for anyone but myself!
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Got to post this one - it's called "Guess Who?!!! (http://hieronymous.us/music/guesswho.mp3)" - guess who's on drums? Definitely not my usual drummer - it's me! I can't really play, only a few beats, but when we were setting up for my most recent recording session, I played a little bit so that Damon could check the sounds. Later on I overdubbed a bass part - it was fun playing along with myself! I guess I do it all the time while recording but for some reason it was interesting - hopefully not only for myself... :P