The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Bass Zone => Topic started by: Deathshead on February 26, 2010, 07:02:31 PM
-
Hey Guys, I have been messing around with riffworks a little bit today, just recording some stuff and playing it back to critique my playing..
Its been years before i recorded anything, and playing my tracks back to myself it sounded soo god awful terrible..
Then I thought to myself lets listen to some isolated tracks on youtube..
Its just the nature of the beast i guess many isolated bass tracks sound like crap until they are mixed.
heres an example. Isolated Van halen bass track,...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2wEBWxLvEs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2wEBWxLvEs)
-
And people wonder why EVH stopped letting MA do the bass tracks on Van Halen albums right around then. ;D
-
;D
-
I don't find anything too terrible about the playing on that track. It's obviously been "doctored" to sound bad on Youtube, probably as a swipe at MA, which would certainly be in keeping with the Van Halen brothers' previous behavior. I have a studio reference audio interface and monitors on my internet computer, and there is almost no low end there, just a farty, clacky, SVT tone that has had all the life compressed out of it by something of the 1176-ilk. The fret and string noise are horribly exaggerated, while the "meat" of the tone is missing completely and there is virtually no dynamic movement at all. MA isn't my favorite player by any stretch, but old Van Halen albums don't have that bass sound either.
-
I don't find anything too terrible about the playing on that track. It's obviously been "doctored" to sound bad on Youtube,
Many of the isolated tracks on youtube are pulled from the Guitar hero and rockband games that use the actual masters.
there are alot of really cool examples too, like for instance a few guys actually turned on the bass in the Metallica and justice for all album, sounds great!
-
No doubt that it's cool to hear with some bands, ... And Justice for All (including Jason Newsted) but as far as the master tapes being accurately presented, it still boils down to how the video game engineer mixes what he/she has been given and then how it's captured to Youtube. I didn't realize that it was a homemade clip from a videogame, and was thinking along the lines of EVH putting it out to rub some salt in MA's wounds. With that in mind, it sounds like what it is: a cheap computer mic on a TV speaker playing back an mp3.
-
Just listening to it again just made me almost
piss my pants, it's just so badd it's hilarious, pbg, I think
I'm starting to go with you on this.
Hahahah
-
It doesn't even sound like it's the same tempo. I'm going to say it's a fake.
-
I always thought he did a galloping type part. That's the way I've always played the song. Maybe I was just hearing Alex' double bass drums.
-
I can highly recommend the book plus two CDs "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" About the legendary James Jamerson.
There are many bass legends contributing on these CDs and book. Big names. Really big names
The bass parts are in the left speaker. The rest of the music in the right speaker.
And if you listen to their bass parts most of them sound crippled and awkward.
But in the music they sound perfect. That's what matters.
-
I can highly recommend the book plus two CDs "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" About the legendary James Jamerson.
There are many bass legends contributing on these CDs and book. Big names. Really big names
The bass parts are in the left speaker. The rest of the music in the right speaker.
And if you listen to their bass parts most of them sound crippled and awkward.
But in the music they sound perfect. That's what matters.
Excellent point. Things out of context should not be judged on thier own
-
And if you listen to their bass parts most of them sound crippled and awkward.
But in the music they sound perfect. That's what matters.
+1k
I doubt that Berry Gordy would have sold many records recording albums/singles filled with bass solos.
-
I agree, I find this hard to judge as a solitary track. It might sound horrible with drums or groove nicely.
I saw VH(agar) at the Nassau Coliseum, in 1988. He was exactly what you could expect of a bass player with his experience: rock solid. The whole band war darn tight and it struck me at that concert just how good a rhythm player Eddie is. I found the difference of his rhythm playing to Sammy Hagar's more pronounced than the difference in his lead playing!
-
Has nobody else noticed that the part sounds doubled? In a few spots it's really obvious that there are two bass tracks going. Dunno what's up with that.
-
I have a hard time believing that this is Mike.
Wasn't there a supposed "Cliff Burton Isolated Bass Track" posted a while ago too?
:rolleyes:
-
I have a hard time believing that this is Mike.
Wasn't there a supposed "Cliff Burton Isolated Bass Track" posted a while ago too?
:rolleyes:
Doh! I posted that one. You weren't s'posed to remember.
Yeah~ This seems like someone else claiming to be someone they ain't.
-
I agree with Rob and Uwe about isolated bass tracks. Of course there are always exceptions to the rules like the vid of JAE playing Wont get fooled again that has been posted here previously. Which is of course damn near perfection for that style of playing and very very listenable.
-
But even that JAE clip is a bit rough... the tone sounds uglier in isolation (to me), and there are spots where his timing seems a bit ragged to me, which is probably down to the vagaries of trying to match a prerecorded synth track and live Keith Moon at the same time. :rimshot:
In the mix it sounds fantastic to me, but solo'd, just about any instrument (or vocal!) track is likely to sound quite weird.
This "Michael Anthony" bit, though... I'm just not buying it. Remember that in the original mix, there's nothing but bass and drums under the guitar solo? No rhythm guitar overdub or anything. And this solo'd track just doesn't sound anything like I remember that part sounding.
-
Good point. I remember the old VH albums as really introducing the "when Eddie solos, he solos, there is no other guitar chording then"-fashion. That was brave as it put the spotlight on his playing, but of course he had the chops to pull it off. And the bass - while not inventive - never sounded anything less than massive on those tracks, the Godzilla stomp of Running with the Devil comes to mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh7f9tjs5W0
And of course Michael's backing vocals gave VH those archtypical chorusses DLR just couldn't have provided himself (an entertaining frontman with a nice male rasp, but he can't really sing, nor has he learned it over the years). When I heard that first VH album two things struck me: the guitar and the backing/harmony vocals.
-
an entertaining frontman with a nice male rasp, but he can't really sing, nor has he learned it over the years
He may not have the best technique but at least DLR 's got soul. I prefer any of his recordings over Sammy Hagar's.
-
I was never able to take David Lee Roth seriously as a singer. It is the main reason I tried to avoid Van Halen's music. I never much liked Sammy Hagar, either, although he was an improvement. However, I do find Chickenfoot interesting and have even thought about buying their CD.
-
He may not have the best technique but at least DLR 's got soul. I prefer any of his recordings over Sammy Hagar's.
DLR has animal charm, granted, and can use his voice to great effect in a studio, but live within the melee of VH's music he had real issues pitching even during their best of times. Plus he doesn't really have the range for a hard rock singer. On the 1st VH album, I thought the deeply-sung first verses of Ice Cream Man suited his voice best and he sang that like no other.
-
And don't forget a good sense of humor. To me his lyrics are a lot more digestable than Hagar's.
DLR can be so over the top that it must be funny.
Hagar just wants to be funny so desparately, he rarely is.
-
I've never disliked DLR personally. Plus, I do think he has a great sense of humor. Just that "California Girls" video demonstrates that. I suspect he may be a great guy. But I always felt he was in Van Halen because of his showmanship, not because of his voice.
-
True. He took that frontman role seriously and filled it well. Hagar was/is more a singing musician, with him VH became a four-piece as opposed to the three-piece with a singer they had been with DLR.
-
The first VH album is a classic. If I put it on today it still sounds fresh and powerful to my ears. Great songs like Running With The Devil, You Really Got Me, Ain't Talking Bout Love, etc.
I can't think of any Van Hagar album that could be named a classic.
-
I like the first VH album but pretty much ignore the rest. I grew up listening to Montrose rather than VH so I prefer Hagars voice. Eddies flash shredding had limited appeal to me then and now.
-
Call me weird, but aside from the first album, my favorite Van Halen stuff was the end of the Hagar-era tracks. Humans Being from the Twister soundtrack was the most pissed off I ever heard that band (probably because they were all pissed at each other) and I love it. The different incarnations were completely different bands with completely different goals. I think someone once said the difference between them could be summed up this way: Sammy Hagar sang songs about love in Van Halen; David Lee Roth yowled about getting laid.
-
I can highly recommend the book plus two CDs "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" About the legendary James Jamerson.
There are many bass legends contributing on these CDs and book. Big names. Really big names
The bass parts are in the left speaker. The rest of the music in the right speaker.
And if you listen to their bass parts most of them sound crippled and awkward.
But in the music they sound perfect. That's what matters.
For comparison, here are some original isolated Jamerson tracks, straight off the original 8 track masters .....
http://www.ricksuchow.com/music-group-151.html
user name and password are
ricksuchow
jamerson
-
The first VH album is a classic. If I put it on today it still sounds fresh and powerful to my ears. Great songs like Running With The Devil, You Really Got Me, Ain't Talking Bout Love, etc.
I can't think of any Van Hagar album that could be named a classic.
I think the first Van Hagar album after DLR's departure pretty much reinvented and revitalized the band. The old Van Halen had become stale, good songwriting - never Van Halen's forte, how many of their songs can you strum on acoustic guitar around a camp fire? - was few and far between. You could hear the enthusiasm in that first album with Hagar and it was all coming full circle as VH was influenced by Montrose and I hear a little of Hagar even in DLR's early voice.
-
I think the first Van Hagar album after DLR's departure pretty much reinvented and revitalized the band. The old Van Halen had become stale, good songwriting - never Van Halen's forte, how many of their songs can you strum on acoustic guitar around a camp fire? - was few and far between. You could hear the enthisiasm in that first album with Hagar and it was all coming full circle as VH was influenced by Montrose and I hear a little of Hagar even in DLR's early voice.
It would be pretty funny however to get everyone loaded for a VH1 acoustic sing along around the campfire, HAHAH!!
-
You mean like this? 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpBQeev3KT0
-
Here's my .02 on this age-old subject.
1) DLR after VH is better than VH after DLR.
2) Neither Hagar's solo stuff, nor Van Hagar, nor Chickenfoot can hold a candle to that first Montrose album.
3) Michael Anthony's voice had as much to do with creating the "Van Halen Sound" as anything Eddie ever played. Never cared for his basswork though.
-
I cant fault any of that logic.
-
Maybe it's colored by nostalgia (I was 14 at the time and susceptible to a lot of crap that came over the radio), but I've always thought 1984 was a really great album. Sure, the lyrics are about nothing worth thinking about, but it's fun music and well played. Great drumming, great rhythm guitar work, and DLR was the perfect cartoonish vocalist for the band. I thought they were never as good at being "serious" as they were at being a ridiculous rock and roll cartoon. But I can't fault them for getting tired of it.
-
Here's my .02 on this age-old subject.
1) DLR after VH is better than VH after DLR.
2) Neither Hagar's solo stuff, nor Van Hagar, nor Chickenfoot can hold a candle to that first Montrose album.
3) Michael Anthony's voice had as much to do with creating the "Van Halen Sound" as anything Eddie ever played. Never cared for his basswork though.
Yea M.a.'s voice made the vh sound.
-
No way.
Eddie van Halen's guitar playing did.
Michael Anthony's backing vocals were very good, but to say they made VH sound is ridiculous
-
No way.
Eddie van Halen's guitar playing did.
Michael Anthony's backing vocals were very good, but to say they made VH sound is ridiculous
Eddies guitar innovations got them noticed originally (and he naturally got most of the glory), but the one constant through the lineup and songwriting changes was MA's vocals. Eddie's approach and sound changed numerous times over the years, not to mention the plethora of EVH wannabees that sprouted up like crabgrass in other bands. The backing vocals are what ties the different eras together - you can't miss 'em as being uniquely VH.
-
Oh whatever.
Weird: I'm not even a VH fan, and suddenly I find myself defending VH :o
Cheers guys. :toast:
-
The public doesn't buy albums for guitar solos or Tony McAlpine, Vinnie Moore, Chris Impelliteri and Yngwie Malmsteen would all be rich. And an excellent live show (of which DLR was a large part) sells tickets, not records as Black Oak Arkansas (to name a DLR inspiration), Kiss and The Rolling Stones can all testify.
The commercial aspect of VH were MA's backing or more precisesly chorus lead vocals (btw: also the reason why the Van Halens got him into Mammoth in the first place) while DLR was talking and screeching his way through the verses. Songs like Dance the Night away weren't radio staples because of Eddie's solo (hum it to me from memory and I'll change my mind!), but because of the hi-gloss chorus vocals.
-
one man's back up vocals does not a band make. imho. like it or not it's all about the guitar. i wonder if we would be having this discussion if the back up stuff came from alex instead of mike.
-
I'll agree that MA did a great deal to keep VH alive in the mainstream. My personal favorites are VanHaggar albums though, I always felt Sammy did a better job vocally matching with MA than DLR ever did. Plus some of their songs are better written, IMHO of course.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNop2HFrmqQ