The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Other Bass Brands => Topic started by: hieronymous on January 14, 2011, 10:53:42 PM
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Been watching this recently:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180612771572&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180612771572&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)
It had something like an $800 starting bid, $1300 BIN. Thought it might be interesting to put in the lowest possible bid, see if the seller would let it go for that. Then forgot about it, only to find it relisted for a lower starting bid/BIN - even more interesting.
I've only ever played two other Kramers, and both for only a couple of minutes. Never through an amp. One is at a local GC - a 4 string that looks pretty beaten on with a strange neck/body joint. The one up on eBay right now looks like it's in really good shape. He's got a 6-string guitar up too.
Any thoughts? Something worth going for or definitely worth staying away from? Had an eye out for an 8-string, can't afford most of what I would like (Alembic, Rickenbacker), haven't seen many Waterstones around. The aluminum neck instruments are discussed here (http://www.vintagekramer.com/alum.htm). Looks like the 8-string might be short scale which is interesting too...
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I never played one of their 8 Strings but I did have a Kramer Duke with an aluminum neck for a couple years. Kramer makes a fine instrument but I had issues with the aluminum neck. Wood and aluminum expand and contract at different rates and that made for some serious tuning issues. On cold winter days , I would take it out of the case , tune up and start playing. As I played and the neck warmed up and it would start to tune itself sharp. It wouldn't have been so bad but this would continue through the night and I was constantly tuning down. It drove me nuts >:(. Other than that I really liked it.
Rick
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They always looked very eye-catching...
Rick is speaking from experience, which is worth bearing in mind...
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Rare for sure, I wouldn't pay $1,300.00 for it. I could never get past the aluminum neck on Kramers. I f I was going to buy a 8 string I would look for something else. The pups are Schaller or Dimarzio Model Gs, the thing ought to scream !
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Some things grow when touched, need to remember that. :P No wonder Kramer stopped making them.
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Concorde grew by about 10" at full thrust (and speed) ;D
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Concorde grew by about 10" at full thrust (and speed) ;D
Sounds about right ;)
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Rare for sure, I wouldn't pay $1,300.00 for it. I could never get past the aluminum neck on Kramers. I f I was going to buy a 8 string I would look for something else. The pups are Schaller or Dimarzio Model Gs, the thing ought to scream !
Actually it was the aluminum neck that first drew me in. I thought it was a great idea and that it would be strong and resonant. All that was true. It played great and sounded great (when in tune), and I could even get past the initial cold feel of the neck when it first came out of the case because that went away pretty quickly. The tuning itself sharp thing was absolutely maddening. I remember tuning that thing DOWN about twenty times one night, I was losing my perspective everything . I wasn't trusting the electronic tuner and I couldn't trust my ear. I was having a really difficult time believing that my instrument kept tuning itself higher! That's just not normal :o.
Rick
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It is for aluminium...
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$1300 is definitely too much - I like the initial $800 opening bid price! I can never tell if there is a reserve or not, probably close to his BIN?
If having to retune a 4 string is bad, could you imagine an 8? :o But where I live (Oakland, CA) the weather is pretty mild year round, it never gets below freezing, rarely gets below 45-50...
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You do a lot of studio time - in a controlled atmosphere this expansion issue may not be a problem...
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I've had an alumi-Kramer for 29 years. EXACT same body as that one as a matter of fact, though mine was a slightly earlier one with vol/tone/vol/tone knobs, (2) series/parallel switches, and the pickup selector. It also had the better neck attachment setup with (3) machine screws going into the spine of the aluminum part of the neck. I was way into Stanley Clarke, and at 18 could NOT afford an Alembic, so I went for the Kramer. GREAT tones with the original Schaller P/J pups. VERY convincing P Bass, Jazz, Ric, and Alembic sounds. I eventually had the frets removed and EMGs put on, and that's how it exists today. Sounds fantastic as a fretless, and the EMGs really work on this bass. Everything else I own is passive, but I'm leaving this as-is. As far as 8 strings - I had a very rare (1 of 1?) Kramer with the XL-9 body style. Quote from the Vintage Kramer web site - "The XL-12, a 12 string model and XL-98 8 string bass are still a mystery as not much information exists on these models. Presumably these had the type 2 body style." I sold it for $1100 a few years ago after I landed my beloved Ric 4003S/8. ;D
Anyway, I like these instruments a lot. The big bummer for me is major neck dive. You get used to it. A grippy strap and wearing it fairly high helps. The Stagemaster on eBay is a good looking bass. I'd pay $800 easy if I were looking.
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I have a Kramer XKB-10 (the not quite bookmatched Flying V) and while it needs a retune after, say, the first two songs in a gig or rehearsal (pitch rises even across all strings), I never encountered the severe and apparently endless issues mentioned here. I used that bass a lot during the early and mid-eighties, it was my main bass and it was (after a retune-up into the third song of the set) totally stable and reliable.
I once played one of those 8-strings and I really, really liked what I heard. Due to the medium scale of these beasts they are a lot more comfortable to play than long scale 8s. Plus the slightly sterile non-wood sound of alu neck Kramers works well with an 8-string where you want to hear the strings and just the strings with little or no interference from middish sounding woods which take away transparency of the regular string/octave string combination.
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Played a bunch of these alumi-Kramers in stores when I was younger, and I remember liking the necks - the width, profile, etc... That plus the prices got these on my list when I was looking for my first 8 string (but I ended up getting an Ibanez Studio model instead...).
Never thought about the environmental factors, but that all makes sense. Like Ken mentioned, maybe the potential for that happening is less if its mostly living in a climate-controlled indoor environment? or it could just vary by bass, given the range of owner experiences here.
That one on Ebay looks nice!
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Professing ignorance here...because I am ignorant about 8-string basses.
How are they tuned? An octave apart on paired strings?
How are they played? Same finger or pick stroke plays both paired strings at once?
I finally decided I'd ask.....
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Professing ignorance here...because I am ignorant about 8-string basses.
How are they tuned? An octave apart on paired strings?
How are they played? Same finger or pick stroke plays both paired strings at once?
I finally decided I'd ask.....
They're normal EADG tuning, but each bass string has a smaller gauge octave-up string paired with it.
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/ibanez/DSCF0044a.jpg)
Usually people play them with a pick, but there's no reason you can't play it fingerstyle. I've even seen a clip of Abe Laboriel slapping one with Lee Ritnour! (I'd kinda rather see him slapping Lee Ritnour, though ;D No reason, just beacuse)
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The Sam Ash store in Cincinnati had one of the Kramers about a year ago. They were asking about $700 for it, but the neck was separating from the wood, and that gave the neck somewhat of an uncomfortable knife edge to it. I also didn't think much of the sound.
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I have a Kramer XKB-10 (the not quite bookmatched Flying V) and while it needs a retune after, say, the first two songs in a gig or rehearsal (pitch rises even across all strings), I never encountered the severe and apparently endless issues mentioned here. I used that bass a lot during the early and mid-eighties, it was my main bass and it was (after a retune-up into the third song of the set) totally stable and reliable.
+1
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Finger players forgive me, but playing an eight string with your fingers just doesn't give you the clarity of a pick, your fingers inevitably muffle out one string, irrespective whether the octave is on top of (most 8 string basses) or below (Ric) the regular string. Your finger hits one string and damps the other one. You end up with a sound that is rather unfocused and does not have that eight string rrring to it which I like. In all honesty, I want an 8 string to sound like a downtuned 12 string guitar and play it accordingly. Mostly with downstrokes and alternate picking when absolutely needed, lots of chording, doublestops and empty string playing. Not very rhythmically oriented as intricate rhythms tend to sound clumsy and harsh on an 8 string. But you can do lovely U2 drone tones with it and be your own rhythm guitarist at the same time. I'm currently playing my Ric 4003S/8 a lot.
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When I had my 8-string, I intended on using a pick. The first night I took it out, someone called out "Superstition" and I had to use my fingers. The bass chewed them to bits. I always used a pick after that, and was careful on which songs I used it.
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Thanks for the input and info everyone! I would love to get this bass for $800 - not sure if he would let it go for that (I doubt it!) and not sure if I'm going to make a bid, but it's been fun to learn about these basses, especially from those of you with direct experience.
I also play my 8-strings with pick - I've messed around a tiny bit with fingers, but it doesn't really fit for me. Slapping actually works a bit - I do an up-and-down technique with my thumb in the same direction as a pick, but don't use that technique much at all anymore.
I have a few recordings I've done with various 8-strings I've owned, thought I would post them for fun:
This track features my first 8-string, a Tune - two tracks of it in the intro, then Mustang reissue in the middle, then the Tune again at the end, both times through my RE-201 Space Echo:
Next to Last (http://hieronymous.us/music/next_to_last_remastered.mp3)
Then I got a Rickenbacker 4003S/8 and recorded a song I originally came up with on the Tune, slathered in even more delay:
8 Echo Dr. (http://soundcloud.com/hieronymous-seven/8-echo-dr) (experimenting with SoundCloud with this link)
I also got a Rickenbacker 4008 - their earlier 8-string - and recorded this which has both distorted and clean tracks together, though the distorted track is more obvious:
Tardis Pedals (http://hieronymous.us/music/tardis_pedals.mp3)
Finally, my most recent recording with the 4003S/8, this time with both distortion and octaver! Total overkill!
Black Walrus (Over the Edge Mix) (http://hieronymous.us/music/black_walrus.mp3)
(Greg DeGuglielmo is drums on all tracks and co-composer on "Next to Last" and "Black Walrus." DJ TAKA is scratching the Yes on "Black Walrus.")
The Tune and the 4008 have been sold and the 4003S/8 lives back in Boston, so I'm always kind of on the lookout for an 8 for here in Oakland! :)
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Hmm, my wife walked in while I was looking at eBay, showed her the bass, there wasn't any explicit opposition, this could be a good sign... :P
Also, looks like there isn't a reserve on the auction? I never understand these things, except I did see that other auctions I am watching say "reserve not met"... ???
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Seller can choose whether or not there's a reserve, no reserve, or buy it now. You could theoretically own that bass for $650.
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Take a look at the bass in the background.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCTktP1Gju0
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A friend of mine has a Kramer like the one in that commercial. It's not a bad bass, just kind of a neck heavy brighter Pbass sound from what I can remember.
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The Kramers sound massive and unrelenting but a bit dead due to the density and stiff ness of the neck as well as the non-wood fretboard material. And they never cared for the greatest body woods. Still a chapter in bass history.
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I was still waffling - Uwe made some interesting points, the "deadness" of the sound of the aluminum neck basses, but also the presence that could be good for an 8-string.
People have started bidding on it, but I have finally decided to pass - some unexpected bills have started coming in, so I'll wait until I can actually get my hands on one to try out first.
Thanks everyone! Hopefully this thread will serve as a resource on the aluminecks!
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MMmmmm beautiful bass! Ebony neck. :o
Just a few hours to go & will go for under 8 hun, I reckon.
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Seller says ebony but weren't these ebanol?
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Wow! Sold for $1525! Glad I gave up so I wasn't disappointed...
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Seller says ebony but weren't these ebanol?
Yep, from the totally synthetic ebanol tree ;D.
Rick
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i had a kramer 450 that my wife bought me. i didn't notice any issues with the neck and loved the tone of the bass. the only thing i didn't like was the weight.
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Weight was not an issue with my Duke (Stienberger copy). I think it weighed in at about the same as as my strap with strap locks ;D.
Rick
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Ebanol notwithstanding it went for double what we expected!!
Maybe cuz it has twice as many strings as usual!! heh
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i had a duke for a few minutes. i traded it back to the guy i got it from the same day. :P
i had forgotten all about it until this thread. it was that good. ;D
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Shocking price. Ebanol is like bowling ball material from what I understand. Great for fretless! Here's something I recorded with mine a few years back.
http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_4295047
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Bowling balls are ebonite, which is different. I think ebonol is like garolite, which is related to the material in old Fender bobbins (forbon).
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WOW! Shocking price. I've had MANY Kramer aluminum neck basses and a few guitars. This is actually my favorite Kramer 8-string model. The earlier ones usually only have the 4-saddle bridges and do not intonate correctly.
These are nice basses but are fairly heavy.
Maybe it'll be relisted. I'm thinking that someone set their reserve high, thinking no one would bid it up to where it got. They might not pay that.
I had a cool rare purple one like this...and a black one. Both went to pro players...both had come from pro players. So, these do get some respect.
I still have a couple of aluminum Kramers left....a V bass and a prototype baritine I got from a relative of the head of Kramer. Also still have a couple of bass necks stashed...an 8 and I think a 4.
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That is one eight string that will never ever worry you about neck tension. As such the price is right. I have yet to see a regular wood eight string with equal stability.
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The 8 string that I sold had been modded before I got it ($500!). The original DiMarzio Model G pups and circuit board were gone, replaced with some old Bart "Hi-A" pups that, like the guitar sized EMG HB, were a split P style inside a 'bucker sized housing. Like most Barts, they did nothing for me, so I ditched 'em and installed EMG HB pups and BTS pre amp. Better... Also, the original Badass 4 saddle bridge had been replaced with a cool, brass 8 saddle beast that I suspect was made by Stars Guitars. Brass nut too, which seemed like a waste since Kramers have a zero fret.
My fretless is still with me, and is the only bass I own with active pickups/pre amp.
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6997/kramerxl98sm.jpg) (http://img28.imageshack.us/i/kramerxl98sm.jpg/) (http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1119/kramersmb2sm.jpg) (http://img406.imageshack.us/i/kramersmb2sm.jpg/)