The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: ack1961 on December 12, 2014, 10:32:02 PM
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I know absolutely zero about Gibson basses, but I'm curious because I see the 2014 SG Std listed for ~$1500 and the SG Special (w/ Gibson HSC) for <$700. I see inlay and finish differences - anyone know any major differences and have any experience with the 2014 Special?
Thanks,
Steve
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Not sure about that one, Steve, but my '74 SG Special (sixer) meant budget version... single ply scratch, mini pups, basic fin, plastic faced headstock, and a Bigsby (clone, stamped Gibson)... pickups are just plain mean, and by that I mean off or KILL... absouletly gorgeous rock sound and same for bottle in an E tune situ...
The 70's special guitar was circa half price and not a perfect instrument, but... presumably something similar...?
Mine's presently (sort of) bare timber, and has been for a couple of decades (including headstock face) and she's all mahogany and ebony... presume just cheaper cuts, but...
Someone will be able to offer a direct comparison sooner or later... a very "sixties" shape bass but still a popular "guitar"...
Mind you, a "P" is a very "fifties" shape, if you get my drift...
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...
You could possibly get a long scale, set neck, Epi SG bass for half the price of the "Special", if the shape fits, that may be just as good... may be... ;)
My Squier Jazz is as good as many Fender's I've tried...
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I know absolutely zero about Gibson basses, but I'm curious because I see the 2014 SG Std listed for ~$1500 and the SG Special (w/ Gibson HSC) for <$700. I see inlay and finish differences - anyone know any major differences and have any experience with the 2014 Special?
Thanks,
Steve
A good finish alone may explain the $1500 price tag, that's Gibson in a nutshell :-\
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Thanks for the replies.
I couldn't find any major differences in electronics or hardware, so I may just go for it. It probably won't matter to me anyway.
It will be kinda neat to have a shortscale again, and my first Gibson. Now, to sneak this under the Christmas tree and put a fake label on it:
To: Steve From: Santa...or Aunt (MakeUpaName)
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AFAIK there's no difference other than what you mentioned. I've played both, there's no tonal difference.
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Actually there are 5 differences, none of which materially affect the tone. The pickups, pots, bridge, tuners, neck, and body are the same. Here are the differences:
- STD has a Corian nut, Special has a plastic nut.
- STD has trapezoidal inlays, Special has dots.
- Std gets the flower pot/holly inlay on the headstock, it's omitted on the Special.
- Std gets premium nitro finish, Special gets the thinner cheapo finish.
- Typically (but not always) the STD has a 1 or 2 piece body, the Special may have as many as 4 pieces.
I have friends who work at the Nashville factory. They all say the deluxe nitro finish process on all the higher end guitars is an incredibly labor-intensive and time-consuming process, and that's where most of the savings are on the Special/Faded models.
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Actually there are 5 differences, none of which materially affect the tone. The pickups, pots, bridge, tuners, neck, and body are the same. Here are the differences:
- STD has a Corian nut, Special has a plastic nut.
- STD has trapezoidal inlays, Special has dots.
- Std gets the flower pot/holly inlay on the headstock, it's omitted on the Special.
- Std gets premium nitro finish, Special gets the thinner cheapo finish.
- Typically (but not always) the STD has a 1 or 2 piece body, the Special may have as many as 4 pieces.
I have friends who work at the Nashville factory. They all say the deluxe nitro finish process on all the higher end guitars is an incredibly labor-intensive and time-consuming process, and that's where most of the savings are on the Special/Faded models.
There is some really valuable info for anyone seriously considering getting one of these. Thanks.
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Actually there are 5 differences, none of which materially affect the tone. The pickups, pots, bridge, tuners, neck, and body are the same. Here are the differences:
- STD has a Corian nut, Special has a plastic nut.
- STD has trapezoidal inlays, Special has dots.
- Std gets the flower pot/holly inlay on the headstock, it's omitted on the Special.
- Std gets premium nitro finish, Special gets the thinner cheapo finish.
- Typically (but not always) the STD has a 1 or 2 piece body, the Special may have as many as 4 pieces.
I have friends who work at the Nashville factory. They all say the deluxe nitro finish process on all the higher end guitars is an incredibly labor-intensive and time-consuming process, and that's where most of the savings are on the Special/Faded models.
We already mentioned the inlays and the finish. I disagree about the body pieces and the nut. The SG Special I played recently was definitely a very nice two-piece body and the nut was definitely corian, not plastic (not that there would be more than a few cents difference in cost anyway).
The gloss nitro finish after buffing is likely just as thin as the cheaper matte finish. But you're right, it's much more labor intensive.
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I actually prefer dots over trapezoid inlays on most basses for some reason.
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I've never seen a plastic nut on any Gibson USA model, although they've made so many surprising changes lately that nothing could really be a surprise any more. Still, the way I see it, no Gibson should ever have a plastic nut.
The multi-piece bodies are a fairly recent change for Gibsons also, I think. I don't recall ever seeing more than three pieces until now. I think in the "Special" or "Tribute" series guitars, it's hit or miss. You may get a one-piece body, or you may get a four-piece body. I have a 2011 SG Junior 6-string with a one-piece body, but mostly the ones I've seen have been two-piece. I also bought a new Firebird Tribute a year or two ago online, and it showed up with a four-piece body. I didn't like the guitar so I sent it back for a replacement. Same model, same finish, same everything. That one came in with a two-piece body.
None of my guitars have a G-Force, however. ;)
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Great information. Thanks to all.
Steve
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I actually prefer dots over trapezoid inlays on most basses for some reason.
Same here. Unbound dot necks for me.
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Still, the way I see it, no Gibson should ever have a plastic nut.
I replaced a nut on a SB350 once, it was plastic, and appeared to be original. Can't say I'm 100% sure if it was ever replaced before,
but it was right size and shape. Found it in the parts drawer yesterday, it's plastic right - and appears to have had laquer on the sides,
altough I would not call this hard evidence.
Maybe other SB owners can verify this lo-grade-nut story?
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I certainly do not wish to be argumentative as I hate that kind of thing. I will just explain how I came to be fairly certain that plastic nuts and multiple piece bodies have been used on many Gibson guitars for a long time now.
At the bottom of this post is the last spec sheet I had for the Faded series. Note that it lists a plastic nut. My spec sheet for the Special series doesn't denote the nut material at all. When the Special came out it was largely just a renamed Faded model with a few different finish color options. I assumed that the plastic nut carried over to the Special, but it may be that Gibson found it simpler to stay with one nut for all their models, I dunno. The guys I know at the factory say small changes like this drive them crazy and that it would not be out of character at all for Gibson to have continued using plastic nuts on the early Specials until they ran out of them before switching to Corian. I don't know for a fact that happened but I'm just saying nobody should be surprised if it did. I can ask if it proves to be a burning question.
There is no question in my mind that plastic nuts were used on many of the cheaper Gibson models. I know for a fact my 2008 Faded SG bass had a plastic nut that I replaced with a bone nut.
Additionally, the 2007 STD SG bass that I later bought has a 2-piece body (and Corian nut). Multiple pieces have been used for over 20 years now. One of the engineers I know that used to work at Gibson told me that finding large slabs of Mahogany was getting harder and harder as fewer old-growth Mahogany trees were available. He also said large scrap pieces that used to be discarded were now being used for the cheaper model bodies.
As to Dave's comment about the number of pieces, I wasn't saying that the Special necessarily had to have 4-piece bodies, only that they might contain up to four pieces. Not necessarily unusual to find 2-piece bodies but also not unusual to find 4-piece bodies on the cheaper models. Or 3-piece bodies for that matter. I suspect (without knowing for sure) that's one of the reasons that the burst version of the Special came out; the burst would better hide the number of pieces in the body.
The above is what I think I know. I'm happy to be corrected if I have erred in any detail.
The info below came directly from Gibson's web site from about 4 years ago
FEATURES FOR GIBSON SG BASS GUITARS - Faded Models
Pickups: Neck: Vintage-style TB Plus bass humbucker
Bridge: Bass Mini-humbucker
Hardware: Chrome
Fingerboard: Rosewood
Scale: 30-1/2"
Nut Width: 1-1/2"
Nut: Molded plastic
Bridge: 3-way adjustable
Neck Material: Mahogany, rounded
Body Material: Mahogany
Controls: 2 volume,1 tone
Includes Gibson gig bag
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The Gibson site now has the SG faded as having a corian nut. MusiciansFriend says it is molded plastic.
Gibson site---
Neck
Species Mahogany
Nut Corian
Nut Width 1.600" +/- .050"
Headstock Silkscreen Gibson Logo
Truss Rod Gibson Adjustable Truss Rod
Truss Rod Cover Bell-shaped cover, stamped "SG"
MusiciansFriend---
FEATURES
Pickups: Neck: Vintage-style TB Plus bass humbucker
Bridge: Bass Mini-humbucker
Hardware: Chrome
Fingerboard: Rosewood
Scale: 30-1/2"
Nut Width: 1-1/2"
Nut: Molded plastic
Bridge: 3-way adjustable
Neck Material: Mahogany, rounded
Body Material: Mahogany
Controls: 2 volume,1 tone
Includes Gibson gig bag
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VeloDog, you're quoting at least 4 year old specs from a discontinued previous model? Seriously?
I'm talking about two I have played personally, both current models. Both the Standard and the Special definitely had Corian. Both had two-piece bodies.
Gibson's current published specs for the 2014 SG Special Bass and the 2015 SG Standard Bass say the nut is TekToid™. Gibson appears to have gone to this for its whole regular USA lineup. According to this (http://www2.gibson.com/Mobile/Features/Article.aspx?Path=/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/Your-Guitars-Nuts), it's a kind of graphite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S9nt1MlYfk
Gibson has used three- and four-piece bodies in the past. In the early 00s, I saw a number of LP Studios that clearly had 4-piece backs. But I see no evidence that the SG Standard basses have commonly had more than two pieces.
Specs change, hopefully for the better.
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I don't know what could be better than graphite.
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iirc my "Special" is a single-piece body, but presently in storage...
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I replaced a nut on a SB350 once, it was plastic, and appeared to be original. Can't say I'm 100% sure if it was ever replaced before,
but it was right size and shape. Found it in the parts drawer yesterday, it's plastic right - and appears to have had laquer on the sides,
altough I would not call this hard evidence.
Maybe other SB owners can verify this lo-grade-nut story?
My four SBs all have the rank and file nut material that came with all EB/SG type basses in the sixties and seventies. But I'm not saying that there weren't ones with a plastic nut. Just as long as I don't have to have one!
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Does Uwe collect for nuts? ;)
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I wouldn't have a ball with that.
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My four SBs all have the rank and file nut material that came with all EB/SG type basses in the sixties and seventies.
You have four SB's?! wow... I only ever played the one I replaced nut on, and it wasn't mine. I strongly recall
that it was horrible to play, and it did not sound very pleasing amplified. I think it was the first version, it had two small
single coils, short scale and a walnut finish.
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Of course he has four, there were four models: SB-300. SB-400, SB-350, SB-450.
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Of course he has four, there were four models: SB-300. SB-400, SB-350, SB-450.
Aha, I see - he's only missing the plastic nut model :)
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"I strongly recall that it was horrible to play, and it did not sound very pleasing amplified."
Thank you for doing the devil's work. :-\ Who in this case lives in Minnesota.
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"I strongly recall that it was horrible to play, and it did not sound very pleasing amplified."
Thank you for doing the devil's work. :-\ Who in this case lives in Minnesota.
Don't blame me that an American's opinion is shared by a Norwegian! :P
I didn't think it played horribly, it just sounded dead and über-thuddy, and I don't mean that in a good way.
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Thank you for doing the devil's work. :-\ Who in this case lives in Minnesota.
If it helps, I must admit I asked the guy to call me if he was ever going to sell it 8)