More on the Gibson raid

[Denis]

...The confiscated wood has a value of only 200,000 USD, while that is money too, Gibson probably saws up guitars and basses in excess value every month for not meeting their standards.

If that's the case, Gibson needs to work on existing quality control, put quality controls in place, offer better training to new employees or hire people who know what the hell they are doing.

[the mojo hobo]

it's definitely a manufactured product -- it's been ripped, jointed, planed and trimmed to length in a factory. So it's considered finished goods.

Without having seen the wood that was seized, fretboard blanks are considered a finished product:



And sold as such by http://www.bellforestproducts.com/fretboard-blanks/

If this is what Gibson was buying in mass quantities, it looks legal to me.

[Dave W]

Without having seen the wood that was seized, fretboard blanks are considered a finished product:



And sold as such by http://www.bellforestproducts.com/fretboard-blanks/

If this is what Gibson was buying in mass quantities, it looks legal to me.

That seller isn't saying those are finished. Compare those to what Stew-Mac sells. In any case, it will be decided in court.

Oddest thing about all this to me is that anyone considers Indian rosewood and ebony to be top grade or rare woods. Until recently, at least, they weren't considered first rate.

[dadagoboi]

Oddest thing about all this to me is that anyone considers Indian rosewood and ebony to be top grade or rare woods. Until recently, at least, they weren't considered first rate.

Wasn't that long ago when Gibson or any other American manufacturer wouldn't use anything but Honduras mahogany.  It was even being used in High School shop classes for projects.  The Indian woods are cheaper and more plentiful than the more regulated species they've replaced.  Most people don't understand or care that there are differences.

[eb2]

Make sense?

Not much of this makes sense, either the arguments or the seizures.  Gibson worked a loophole, the feds overkilled, and more than likely there actually is a political component. 

My suspicion is this is along the lines of the Ford Transit vans, which are delivered into this country with a back seat and glass windows in the back.  Ford works an import loophole where they hire guys to unbolt the back seat and remove the windows, which are then destroyed on site.  Ford then sells the vans with metal panels in place and plugs in the seat holes, and qualifies for some commercial sales tax break and price benefit.  There are environmental concerns as the material being removed legally has to be destroyed, but then becomes landfill needlessly.  People investigate, oh the waste, oh the humanity.  But the guys removing the stuff and grinding it up are union, so it keeps going.

[uwe]

You yanks are hopeless conspiracy advocates!  

Reminds me of my Jewish uncle-in-law who whenever he gets a speeding or parking ticket sees anti-semitism on the rise in Germany once again.  

That Gibson might be on the hook for simply not abiding with import laws is obviously a hopelessly naive assumption. Rather we have to envisage a fiendishly grinning and sadistically laughing Adolf Obama in the White House hitting the "Raid Gibson now!" red button to have the SWAT teams swarming out.

You know what? Our law firm has tax audits then and now. And sometimes the tax auditors find something they don't like. They then tell us quietly to stop it or else. You subsequently have the chance to change, but if you don't, then the next time they notice the "or else" part applies and they start turning the place upside down. Up to now I always though that we don't have tax raids here because we maybe follow their advice and don't come across as repeat offenders, but now I know that it can only be our huge political influence that protects us from more severe investigations. And that we are in league with outside forces I cannot mention here. 

Conspiracy theories are a way of dodging individual responsibility. My Jewish uncle-in-law just needs to drive and park more carefully and German anti-semitism will be waning again.

[nofi]

your uncle in law is correct, however, anti semitism is on the rise all over europe and has been for several years. father adolf would be proud.

[Denis]

Conspiracy theories are a way of dodging individual responsibility.

People will stop at nothing to avoid individual responsibility.
"It's not my son's fault he drowned in YOUR swimming pool while trespassing at night, it's YOUR fault for having a swimming pool."

[uwe]

your uncle in law is correct, however, anti semitism is on the rise all over europe and has been for several years. father adolf would be proud.

Aaaaargh, but that is not why he gets speeding and parking tickets!!!! 

Is it really on the rise? It was always an ideology for imbeciles. It's a great taboo breaker which is why certain rightwing groups gladly jump on it because it gets them in the papers swiftly. And of course there are the Muslim immigrants who are sometimes unfairly labeled as anti-semitic when they are "just" anti-Israel (which as an ideology is just as imbecile, but it is not the same as anti-semitism), they are - like all Arab people - after all semites themselves. And Israel and Jewish interest lobbies (for the avoidance of doubt: they have their place given what the Jewish people experienced in the last century and the ones before, but they are not sacrosanct) are in my view often too quick to grab for the anti-semitism clout to quench even the most fleeting criticism of Israel's policies.

[Highlander]

People will stop at nothing to avoid individual responsibility.
"It's not my son's fault he drowned in YOUR swimming pool while trespassing at night, it's YOUR fault for having a swimming pool."

It's the poodle and the microwave all over again... 

[eb2]

Well, if you have a pool, you should have a fence high enough to keep gomers out.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Aaaaargh, but that is not why he gets speeding and parking tickets!!!! 

Yes, but it IS why he hates America and wants to destroy the poor virtuous job creation machine that is Gibson guitars. Oh wait, that's not your Jewish uncle; that's the Muslim Socialist occupying the White House. 

...political component my ass! As has been pointed out previously, Henry only became a "member" of the Tea Party AFTER he was raided.

[Pilgrim]

I think there is too much inclination to assume that the decision-making is happening at a high level.

The ability of ANY federal agency to decide and act like a horse's ass is well documented, and the inclination of many prosecutors to get a random wild hair up their butt and waste time and money on frivolous and/or unwinnable cases is also well known.

I doubt that the decisions about the Gibson action were made very far up the food chain. It's a lot easier to deal harshly with a guitar maker breaking a fairly obscure 100-year-old law than it is to do something more meaningful like reduce the number of drug shipments or investigate business relationships of big oil companies.

[Dave W]

I think there is too much inclination to assume that the decision-making is happening at a high level.

The ability of ANY federal agency to decide and act like a horse's ass is well documented, and the inclination of many prosecutors to get a random wild hair up their butt and waste time and money on frivolous and/or unwinnable cases is also well known.

I doubt that the decisions about the Gibson action were made very far up the food chain. It's a lot easier to deal harshly with a guitar maker breaking a fairly obscure 100-year-old law than it is to do something more meaningful like reduce the number of drug shipments or investigate business relationships of big oil companies.

Agreed. The inspector who intercepted the shipment didn't even know Gibson was involved until after the investigation started. The idea that this came from on high is absurd. And as PBG pointed out, Henry wasn't a political figure before the raid. Besides, no one has yet made a decision to prosecute.

[dadagoboi]

IMO a very economical way for the Feds to get the other manufacturers' attention.