The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Outpost Cafe => Topic started by: westen44 on March 05, 2018, 03:53:34 PM
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http://teamrock.com/feature/2018-03-05/the-imagine-dragons-phenomenon-is-rock-music-moving-on-without-us
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If you want to define the Imagine Dragons as rock music by putting them in the same charts as older bands we consider as rock bands, then it's a fair assessment. But IMHO it's a misclassification to call them a rock band. It's pop music, NTTAWWT.
Similar situation with putting douchebag wannabe frat boy party rock on the country stations and charts and calling it country.
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Totally agree. I actually listened to a few of their songs, too. It is simply not rock music, period.
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Never heard of them. And I think I couldn't care less :mrgreen:
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Who said that Spotify's choice of categorisation is the law? It's not going to be better than the person or algorithm behind it. To me it looks like that's the only instigator of that article. Just a storm in a glass of water just like most media headlines today.
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There will always be cheesy pop but I don't think it will replace rock completely. Guitars are still a big thing and the younger generation is pretty savvy with them. Things like 8 string guitars and technical math rock are more relevant developments in rock's evolution. It could be due to increasing levels of autism but at least the kids still like to crank it up.
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I love articles written by people with no knowledge of music history. This is the same argument from 1985 re: what we locally called New Wave , but was really post punk/synth pop; is it even rock. And that wasn't even the first time. Now I have no issue with genre bending or fusion, and that is the way things are going but, sure, they (Imagine Dragons) are not quite rock (and I don't think they're trying to be or their fans consider them to be) though it is possible to incorporate some elements of modern dance pop (for example) without ceasing to be rock, there is a threshold at which you actually cross over. Actual (purist) rock is continuing on, though I have to say, half the time it is kinda me'h and cliche, but not all the time. I do have a bit of a issue with the homogenization of music that seems to be what the mainstream industry does to it - the process takes new genres, at first marginalizes them, and then as critical mass of fandom approaches, suddenly reverses course and absorbs it as fast as possible; one huge bite in attempt to swallow it whole, but inevitably a piece of it is crunched off and left behind like the tail of a cocktail shrimp. The effect is that the forms of the new genre are applied to the same banal pop pap as before, usually without (all of) the substance. You have people who listen to pop tarts and boy bands walking around in pre-ripped jeans and docs and studs in everything; makes no sense. I mean they're free to be into whatever they like, and stuff, but like, that was my jam (though I distress my own jeans the hard way thank you, and frankly some more reserved, tasteful inclusion of studding is what I would recommend) and now you've watered it down and made it just another cookie cutter style option; a cliche. I can buy sweatshop-made black 8 hole Docs at any Softmoc but not even the old stores I used to have to go to carry the well-made 10-14 hole oxblood combat boots (of whatever brand) that I prefer anymore.
These attitudes and trends have even crept in to the independent (you can't even use the word indie anymore, because Indie bands aren't actually independent) scene(s).
There will always be room for whatever genre you care to discuss, be it rock or otherwise. Just the nature of that scene will cease to be quite as mainstream as before. The good news is that the echo boomers (who are driving all the marketing right now; still some heavy action for their aging parents, but with that group's attrition losses....) for the most part respect and acknowledge what came before (vs complete rejection of their parent's music as in former generations), there will be another rock revival. Probably as the demographic's median age reaches 30-35 or so.
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They are all over the radio, daily. The two songs I hate every day are the two ID songs. And they sound the same.
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What is pop, what is rock? I don't think there is a viable differentiation unless you pick out extremes. And even then ...The Osmonds never rocked, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXcj8dFOd1E
I spent much of the 70ies arguing that Sweet were a proper rock band, nobody believed me at school.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iurmCwBdCXc
Were Queen a rock band, sometimes no ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2EDkv_dyeI
... sometimes yes ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvB2MnIIdMw
My own definition of "real" rock music is that it needs to be riff based:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUqvECWXOdA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQyDMLVSIWs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O87q6jFcmmc
Of course that renders U2 - a band unable to write a good riff if it hit them square between the eyes - non-rock, millions of U2sters all over the world would no doubt disagree, they are happy with U2 strumming chords and arpeggios with lots of delay.
Yet even my definition isn't fool-proof, this here is riffy as hell, but is it not (at least also) pop?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LhCd1W2V0Q
Now Imagine Dragons (a band I have never heard of until this thread) seems to me a band of young men playing electric and electronic instruments plus some acoustic percussion which kinda ticks the rock band box. Their music seems to be a mix of Kings of Leon, Linkin Park, Muse and perhaps a bit Coldplay (all of them bands with a sizeable share of female fans). They are not great on riffs from what little I heard, but neither are a lot of other people that are unflinchingly qualified as rock.
And whether you look good and appeal to girls, can't be a serious discerning feature for the (wholly unnecessary and scientifically unproven) rock/pop schism. To me these guys for instance are both: rock and pop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBB37gsHJmQ
I buy their albums faithfully, yet still enjoy Budgie's Whiskey River (see vid above), so it seems to me I'm moving along with rock music alright. And in comparison to Black Veil Brides, Ghost to me are undoubtedly more pop, yet still rock enough for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqoyKzgkqR4
All that said, what's wrong with pop anyhow? I love it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj_9CiNkkn4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5vKD71csuU
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I think there is a difference between pop and what has been referred to already on this thread as "cheesy pop." As for how that would be defined, it's similar to the Supreme Court's definition of obscenity in 1964: you know it when you see it. In the case of cheesy pop, you know it when you hear it and it's pretty easy to detect. Coldplay is cheesy pop, but after listening to ID, I'd say they make Coldplay sound way better now.
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If you hate ID, check out Ubiquitous Synergy Seeker; I mean the name alone.
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If you hate ID, check out Ubiquitous Synergy Seeker; I mean the name alone.
I like the name Ubiquitous Synergy Seeker better than Imagine Dragons. I had heard about ID for years, but never bothered listening to them because I dislike that name so much. This is probably something irrational on my part. I can't ever remembering doing that before. But I don't even know what the hell that is supposed to mean: imagine dragons. It sounds pretentious and pointless to me. Nevertheless, I can't say I hate their music. I'm just not interested in it enough to listen to it.
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Well I'm opposite on that. When I first heard the ID name I thought they were a doom/noise band or something. Boy was I ever wrong.
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Quite frankly, I'm probably wrong for not listening to a band just because I don't like the name. Fortunately, I'm almost never that arbitrary about stuff.
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Boy oh boy... I'm so far out of the loop... this was pop to me as a teen... :mrgreen:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFAd-zpqWiU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBqiC5ox8Bw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf53Pg2AkdY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu3-QqQHK08
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Grand Funk Railroad may have actually devolved, though, by that time. Loved their early stuff as a power trio. Of course there are those who disagreed. But I'd call their early albums rock.
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That GFRR video was worth sitting through for the Gilligan's Island babes. Lovey Howell was hot! :mrgreen:
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My drummer took his kids to see Imagine Dragons a couple months ago.
This led, among other things, to some intra-band ranting via text message. Lost the thread but in my memory it went something like this:
"Were there dragons?"
"No"
"Why not?"
"I guess you have to imagine them"
"..."
"What kind of shit is that"
"If I paid for tickets I'd want to see some damn dragons"
"George Clinton didn't make people imagine the mothership, he landed it in the damn arena!!"
"Did Pink Floyd call their tour Imagine The Wall? No they did not"
"Spinal Tap didn't make people imagine Stonehenge ... or ... wait"
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I nearly sprayed my morning coffee all over the computer.
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You know it's rock when you feel it.
If it goes pop, it's not.
:mrgreen:
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You know it's rock when you feel it........
......and you start stompin' your feet and nodding your head.
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The dandruff test ... agreed, even major chords are then RAWK!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1gYJDQXPOk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG2jj-aIl-A
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Grand Funk Railroad may have actually devolved, though, by that time. Loved their early stuff as a power trio. Of course there are those who disagreed. But I'd call their early albums rock.
If GF(R) weren't rock in all their incarnations, then I don't know. And I liked the Craig Frost-augmented line up even better, it added depth to their music and brought out more of the soulishness. Frost was a heck of a hammond player and made them sound even beefier than the already mighty trio format.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJCeH7EuU_M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWrlaEIcswU
I'm even an avid Flint listener though that album tanked so bad at the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmYnjITMIQ0
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Grand Funk probably didn't have the talent or depth to quite make it as a power trio. But they gave it a try and the results were admirable. Just their cover of "Inside Looking Out" is noteworthy. I found it a lot harder to get into their later music, though.
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I never understood why the critics hated them so much - they were grooving, very organic in their approach, the Motown influence was audible through all the white-boy-volume and I didn't think they were bad instrumentalists at all, not one of them. Farner was no Jeff Beck, true, most guitarists weren't/aren't, but he had grit, swagger and emotion. His voice (and Don Brewer's gruff vocals) I always liked. Mel Schacher, otoh, was a better bassist than in most bands playing high energy music around that time, but of course no critic ever listened closely to what he did.
Composition-wise, even a late piece of work such as Born To Die (recorded when the band atmoshere was less than happy) is a masterpiece.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXWV4XzvXTI
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I'm wondering who this "us" is exactly. Boomers? Gen X-ers? Anyone over 30? I honestly don't mind ID and pretty much consider them a rock band. I also consider new wave to be rock. You can have rock with no guitars at all as far as I'm concerned. ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQQdYokbp4E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHHOWroSROU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeboHGRHlW4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-xyZosFGKI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ldyx3KHOFXw
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I never understood why the critics hated them so much - they were grooving, very organic in their approach, the Motown influence was audible through all the white-boy-volume and I didn't think they were bad instrumentalists at all, not one of them. Farner was no Jeff Beck, true, most guitarists weren't/aren't, but he had grit, swagger and emotion. His voice (and Don Brewer's gruff vocals) I always liked. Mel Schacher, otoh, was a better bassist than in most bands playing high energy music around that time, but of course no critic ever listened closely to what he did.
Composition-wise, even a late piece of work such as Born To Die (recorded when the band atmoshere was less than happy) is a masterpiece.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXWV4XzvXTI
Mark Farner's vocals were excellent. I can guarantee you not one of those critics would be able to sing that well. Of course, it was mostly his guitar playing which they seemed to criticize. One of the main things that appealed to me was how loud the bass was. They were a unique band, though, and much more than just a garage band which some people seemed to be saying. The lead guitarist in my band at the time loved Grand Funk. Although a very laid-back person, he pushed us to learn their songs. So we did and it was fun for us and everyone else.
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That GFRR video was worth sitting through for the Gilligan's Island babes. Lovey Howell was hot! :mrgreen:
:mrgreen:
Big fan of GFR, early and late... Uwe, there (sort of) is a second Flint LP floating about out there... as for BTD, this outro to side 1 is one of my fave tracks, but then I always liked it when you interweave sax and guitar...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e6PE0qTa9Q
And as for late GFR power "pop" this is also a fave... ignore the nonsense of the first 25 seconds for the 45 edit, which I still have, or go for the Zappa produced LP version below it... the LP tanked but is very good, mostly...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhhw6cGTUOM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlADxMR4Xrk
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Imagine Dragons. I was thinking why two songs were pissing me off on the radio and both seem to be that band. I remembered their song Radioactive (Basvarken will know that, if he wants or not, haha) and that was not a bad (pop)song. I also read a gig review in British Q magazine, they played in the biggest indoor venue in The Netherlands and it sold out. Still hate those two songs.
I still don't like them but they seem to do something good. I always try to be informed about music and what's happening and if a lot of people are talking about a band I will check it. If I like 'm or not. I always dislike people who instantly dislike a band without knowing them or say things like 'never heard of them and not interested'. If you are interested in music you should broaden your horizons - and only keep what you like of course.
In The Netherlands there seem to be something against good pop music and I think this is striking:
Robbie Williams was just out of Take That and the whole rock world hated him. He played at a free Dutch festival with teenagers throwing toy cuddly animals at him. Then he played a big rock festival and he really stole the show. I was there on both occasions btw. He stole the show but the rock guys threw fruit at him and in the press everybody hated him. Fast forward some years and Robbie Was playing stadiums and even the critically rockers went to see him.
Fast forward some more years: Justin Bieber comes to that festival... again all the critic people hate it...
And Harrry Styles' Sign Of The Times is one of the best pop songs of 2018 imho. Wasn't he in a boy band too?
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A lot of the time it can be the song itself which is the main thing to consider. In that horrifying Quincy Jones interview which came out not long ago, he did actually make some good points. One was that if a song isn't good enough enough, then nothing else much matters. I can remember Talking Heads came out with a song that I utterly despised. But then they came out with another one that I loved.
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Mel Schacher was great in GFRR. He drove the band.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2Sd1cVC_J4
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Dave just said something positive about a "stadium rock" band.
Or I must have imagined it. Better go to bed now.
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I have awakened. Dave's posting is still there - for all to read.
"Mel Schacher was great in GFRR. He drove the band."
Someone must have hijacked his account. REVEAL YOURSELF!!! Now I'm truly worried.
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People have been decrying the End Of Rock As We Know It for decades.
I have never believed in a binary segregation between what's rock vs. what's pop (or country, or hip-hop, or whatever) ... to me these things exist on a continuum. Bands and solo artists often move along that continuum during their career, or even from song to song. Purism is boring. It's true there's not a lot of new radio hits that I like nowadays, but that's normal for a guy hitting middle age. And radio music has usually been mostly terrible with a few great songs sprinkled in, that's nothing new. I grew up in the 70s, for god's sake. Top 40 was often HORRIBLE back then.
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Dave just said something positive about a "stadium rock" band.
Or I must have imagined it. Better go to bed now.
I have awakened. Dave's posting is still there - for all to read.
"Mel Schacher was great in GFRR. He drove the band."
Someone must have hijacked his account. REVEAL YOURSELF!!! Now I'm truly worried.
It's about a style of music, not the venue.
Take your prune juice and get a good night's sleep. :P
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Another analysis of the ID phenomenon. Introduces the term "pop-rock Frankenstein."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/music/2018/03/20/news-views-how-imagine-dragons-faceless-rock-music-became-genres-future/373989002/
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I think we can all just let this go; I just found out ID are the favorite band of my 7 year old' and most of the boys in his grade (there's like 4 classes; bit of a baby boom in the neighborhood). His other favorite band is The Killers (currently trying to be a shittier Arcade Fire, which, I must admit is an improvement from being a shittier Franz Ferdinand on their earlier record(s)... though the lyrics are worse now - seriously, have you heard The Man; what utter cliche pap). So, I expect most of them will grow out of it; I certainly don't listen to anything I listened to at that age anymore.
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Danny & the Juniors said so 60 years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNEj5FUHStE
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Neil said it too... :mrgreen:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O1v_7T6p8U
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Danny & the Juniors said so 60 years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNEj5FUHStE
Ah, danke, I never knew the original, only the spoof:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUjvkCykyZI
It only strikes me now: Were the Village People patterned after Sha Na Na?
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And speaking of silly, but lovable rock'n'roll anthems of course:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLN8lHBBKck
Ritchie celebrating the moderately successful acquisition of his first wig hair enhancement in 1978.
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We haven't moved past liking this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL5spALs-eA
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyemD5Nklm4
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We haven't moved past liking this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL5spALs-eA
And it even has an odd meter in it!!!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyemD5Nklm4
Ah yes, lovely, always dug that song and the silly "turn the hi-fi high"-lyric line. :mrgreen: The way Robbie sings the "rock forever" in the chorus would be echoed by him a decade later when Priest - depending on your view - either mangled Chuck Berry or did an artful rearrangement (with some liberty in the melodies and copious introduction of major third notes Chuck had never sung) of Johnny B. Goode, in any case Halford's "go-gooooooo ..." in the chorus takes a bow to Rock Forever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zxoGFjFJlk
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How could we forget this anthem of US mall car parks?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Awgkb6SmfYQ
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Let's not forget the ORIGINAL, written by bassist Alan Merrill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AT_Pbtyid0
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That version of version of "Rock and Roll All Night" is almost sacrilegious. Sounds more like country than rock. Speaking of rock and religion...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGgECvDBDCU
Don't think this was ever performed live though so that's not a very rock and roll thing after all.
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That version of "Rock and Roll All Night" is almost sacrilegious. Sounds more like country than rock.
Yet the two renowned "folk song writers", Stanley & Simmons, liked it so much they insisted it be included on a Kiss tribute officially ordained by them.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/65/KISS_My_Ass_cover.jpg)
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First I've heard of that tribute album. I see they were having fun with the song. It's cute but doesn't get me as pumped as good rock should. Using the term sacrilegious was more of an attempt at seguaying into the ozzy song.
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That version of version of "Rock and Roll All Night" is almost sacrilegious. Sounds more like country than rock....
The original version of I Love Rock 'n' Roll, a rock anthem sung by the man who wrote it, sounds more country than rock? :o :o :o
Riiiight. I guess all the twangin' Teles, fiddles and pedal steel guitar gave it away...
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We haven't moved past liking this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL5spALs-eA
How did I never notice the Ampeg scroll bass in there?
They could have not used that shot of him hitting that note in the rest though.
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The original version of I Love Rock 'n' Roll, a rock anthem sung by the man who wrote it, sounds more country than rock? :o :o :o
Riiiight. I guess all the twangin' Teles, fiddles and pedal steel guitar gave it away...
The Alan Merrill song is spot on, I was talking about the Kiss cover by Toad the wet sprocket. By the way, rock and roll ain't noise pollution and will never die.
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One more drop in the bucket
https://youtu.be/YlcY_enzwmI
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Or some more fuel to the fire...
https://youtu.be/yw8_5OYKQNA
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Ok, let's turn this into a rock anthem thread for songs with the word "rock" or the term "rock'n'roll" in them!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQRYVsqVT3M
I know - anything that Kiss do is divisive here, but I always dug Paul's and Gene's call and response lead vocals here (though I like Simmons' gruff voice generally more, Paul is often too affected for me).
Ok, that only fits sort of under the above presumptions, but it's a classic nontheless ... :mrgreen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcXHUdSMEvY
That rhythm guitar is not Nile Rodgers (though that is often claimed), but I'm sure he gave it an extensive listen!
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Alrighty then, what could be more rock n' roll than a song called "American Rock n' Roll" by a guy named Kid Rock? End thread, you're welcome. :mrgreen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD8K3pNhf-U
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The original version of I Love Rock 'n' Roll, a rock anthem sung by the man who wrote it, sounds more country than rock? :o :o :o
Riiiight. I guess all the twangin' Teles, fiddles and pedal steel guitar gave it away...
Uhum ... apparently, Dave didn't pay quite his usual dedicated attention and got lost among all that stadium rock. Pretend not to notice and carry on ... None of us are getting any younger, we have to make the best of it while we still can ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--X_ctCVTk8
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Alrighty then, what could be more rock n' roll than a song called "American Rock n' Roll" by a guy named Kid Rock? End thread, you're welcome. :mrgreen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD8K3pNhf-U
He can sing by now. And sometimes he even sounds a bit Don Henley'/John Waite'ish. Sehr schön.
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That version of version of "Rock and Roll All Night" is almost sacrilegious. Sounds more like country than rock. Speaking of rock and religion...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGgECvDBDCU
Don't think this was ever performed live though so that's not a very rock and roll thing after all.
Always loved this.
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Ok, ze German changed ze rools. What suits it better than this? The Scorps intended to make their final retirement album and happened to strike so hard they simply could'nt quit once released and toured. From the Sting In The Tail album which also made my jaw drop. They proved they still had it in them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PstG9Td1U5k
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The Alan Merrill song is spot on, I was talking about the Kiss cover by Toad the wet sprocket. By the way, rock and roll ain't noise pollution and will never die.
Oops, I suppose I should read before replying. :-[
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If you had watched Young Einstein, you would know that young Albert invented the electric guitar and returned to his native Tasmania (where he had discovered the Theory of Relativity while trying to create a head of foam on his beer) in the early 1900s to perform.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9fltCa5hyE
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More bad German rhyming ("Here I aim, rock you like a hurricane" or "Here I am, rock you like a hurry-can", either way, it's not richtig) ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yP1tcy9a10
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Who says it has to rhyme?
I've never heard it as if it's intended to rhyme. ???
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Aber alle Scorpions Songtexte müssen sich reimen, Robert, immer! If need be at gun point.
(https://www.german-way.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/conrdstras.gif)
Zat is why you haff all zose shouting bodies whose desires break out loud ...
It's early morning, the sun comes out
Last night was shaking and pretty loud
My cat is purring, it scratches my skin
So what is wrong with another sin?
The bitch is hungry, she needs to tell
So give her inches and feed her well
More days to come, new places to go
I've got to leave, it's time for a show
Here I am
Rock you like a hurricane
Here I am
Rock you like a hurricane
My body is burning, it starts to shout
Desire is coming, it breaks out loud
Lust is in cages till storm breaks loose
Just have to make it with someone I choose
The night is calling, I have to go
The wolf is hungry, he runs the show
He's licking his lips, he's ready to win
On the hunt tonight for love at first sting
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It's early morning, the sun comes out
Last night was shaking and pretty loud
This proves your point Uwe, with loud pronounced lout of course. Probably made perfect sense when those lyrics were penned down. :mrgreen:
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Rhyming hasn't mattered ever since The Undertones rhymed cabbage with challenge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgqa3cVOxUc
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You'd like, a holly day...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lyZA9Pzr4U
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Rhyming hasn't mattered ever since The Undertones rhymed cabbage with challenge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgqa3cVOxUc
Ah yes, Undertones and what became of (some of) them ... alas!, a good rhyme these days is hard to find, so please be gentle with this rhyme of mine ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFGY2E4oH60
Feargal not only changed his hair quite a bit.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_niymhcabGQ
And of course Joe Elliott's favourite singer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAhJmbAgCgE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyqIP3lQ1vw
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Ah yes, Undertones and what became of (some of) them ... alas!, a good rhyme these days is hard to find, so please be gentle with this rhyme of mine ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFGY2E4oH60
Feargal not only changed his hair quite a bit.
That's from 1985. The Undertones are still going strong without Feargal. It's always been the O'Neill brothers' band anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uv088esj9o
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_niymhcabGQ
And of course Joe Elliott's favourite singer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAhJmbAgCgE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyqIP3lQ1vw
Which is nothing but a straight copy of the original...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XNV-h1cOZs