The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Bass Zone => Topic started by: westen44 on September 05, 2012, 01:42:38 PM
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In trying to look up info about Randy Meisner, I was somewhat surprised there doesn't seem to be much out there. When is the last time someone came up with a bass line like the one to "Hotel California" anyway? I love what he does with that. Can't get enough. So, my hat is off to Randy Meisner, someone who is better than many others who get more attention (as far as I'm concerned.)
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Meisner was a more adventurous, even reckless bass player than Schmidt is today or even with Poco ever was (who got he job with the Eagles on the back of his undeniable great Bee Gee'ish falsetto backing vocals, that said Meisner was no slouch vocally either, that is him all through Take it to the Limit including the high parts at the end Glenn Frey always skips when he performs the song today). But Meisner - like Leadon - was getting pesky with Henley and Frey, the two Eagle-Führers. So he had to go. Don Henley (who sour-facedly criticized Meisner "for moving too much on stage, it distracts from the seriousness of our music") can be a very nasty person if he sets his mind to it, make no mistake, ole grumpy bears a grudge with the world. There is a comparatively recent compilation of Meisner's various recordings all through the eighties and nineties out there, only a few years old. Patchy and sometimes demo'ish (or in horrible 80ies production) in places, but also with highlights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxtTN7nmt8M
The proceeds from Take it to the Limit alone (he co-wrote it with Frey) will keep Randy fed I'm sure, he certainly hasn't been a workaholic since he left (was kicked out of) the Eagles nest.
If truth be told, I find the mock reggae bass on Hotel California (mostly a chordy root, fifth and octave back and forth), avoiding the beautifully descending thirds of the chords which the guitars play instead, Paul McCartney would have preferred it the other way around I'm sure, you can very nicely play a chromatic sequence of B, A#, A, G#, G, F#, E and F# to the Hotel California verse, but Randy choes not to) a bit "white boy does reggae or at least how he hears it". Robbie Shakespeare he ain't. But who am I to criticise, zillions of people love the song and its groove so he must have done something right.
That said, his successor (whose solo albums I own, but certainly not for the "so-well-behaved-it-almost-isn't-there" bass playing) is to me the archtypical "I play bass because someone in the band has to". Hey, wait for it ... that is why I started out on bass too, the Eagles were just not so convinced about my backing vocals capabilities ... :mrgreen:
I prefer the bass melody intro to One of these Nights (the song Bernie Leadon hated with a passion as "disco"). Until I learned that it wasn't played by Meisner but by Glenn Frey (Meisner wasn't even in the studio when the track was laid down)! :mrgreen: With the Eagles (as with Kiss, The Beatles or The Stones) everybody tends to play everything so you never know whose recording track it actually is. But Hotel California was indeed played by Randy sources say (but I wouldn't be surprised if Don Felder who wrote the music to that song - now here is one lucky guy who will never have to work again! - already had something like it on a demo, it sounds a bit like something a guitarist finding his way on a bass would come up with, especially the "chordiness" of the bass line and the lack of thirds).
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I think what appeals to me on "Hotel California" is that unexpected reggae sound to the bass. It's like nothing I would ever have done, and that also makes it appealing. Lately, especially, I have a tendency to like stuff different than what I would do or could do. That's probably why when a guitarist friend and bassist began playing "Hotel California" a few weeks ago for a benefit, I really got into the song, especially the bass. I've never considered myself a true Eagles fan, but with one gigantic exception. I've always been intrigued by the "Desperado" album and have listened to it endlessly over the years. Strangely enough, it seems to be one of their albums that had the least success. Of course, "Hotel California" wasn't on that and that's probably why when I heard my friends playing the song, it grabbed me unexpectedly. I hadn't been much used to listening to that Eagles song, or really any other Eagles song that isn't on "Desperado." And let me just say this isn't just about Randy Meisner or "Hotel California," per se, but also about my bassist friend (a female) who is freaking awesome on bass.
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I was always in awe of the intro to "One of these nights" I wish I would have come up with it.
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I was always in awe of the intro to "One of these nights" I wish I would have come up with it.
It was one of my favorite Randy Meisner bass lines. Of course, now I know he didn't even play it. LBO, the place where myths are shattered and misconceptions are set straight.
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He even played Guitarrón on "New Kid In Town". I prefer the second track on One Of These Nights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYBPXwkaOt4
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It was one of my favorite Randy Meisner bass lines. Of course, now I know he didn't even play it. LBO, the place where myths are shattered and misconceptions are set straight.
Hey, I thought it was disheartening news too. Pretty much like when Kiss Army grunt George C. told me that the ingenious bass run of Sure Know Something was Paul Stanley and not Gene Simmons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94-9LF-yfFs
I got over it with time. You will too. 8) And it's consoling that Gene learned it so well, just like the bass run to Detroit Rock City which Bob Ezrin showed him (lifted off an old Stax recording).
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He even played Guitarrón on "New Kid In Town". I prefer the second track on One Of These Nights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYBPXwkaOt4
Yeah, that Bernie Leadon Native American music influence. I really missed that when he left and it is part of the reason why I prefer One of these Nights (the album) to Hotel California (the album). Journey of the Scorcerer was great too in that way.
Ok, whimp revelation time: My favorite Eagles song is Lyin' Eyes for both the music and the lyrics. :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
And now that you all know what a ball-less creep I am, I even bought his newest CD! I'm a sucker for Herr Frey's voice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR66J7xyAgk
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It's okay that Randy Meisner didn't play quite what I thought. He still has my admiration. As for "Lyin' Eyes," that's one of my favorite Eagles songs, too. Like I mentioned, it's the Eagles "Desperado" album which I have focused on through the years, but certainly there are some exceptions, the songs "Hotel California" and "Lyin' Eyes" being the two primary ones.
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A fairly big influence on my early playing - On The Border was my third LP...
Always liked this one of his... nice bass line...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwXcF5Pvy8I
Frey singing this one but post 3.00 there's even a bass solo of sorts...? not one of theirs, a cover of a David Blue song...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5MPdVtj02s
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I've always enjoyed Frey's guitar work. I like the Hagstrom that Meisner was playing at the California Jam.
https://s-static.ak.facebook.com/rsrc.php/v1/y2/r/5l8_EVv_jyW.swf?v=1232051733902&ev=0 (https://s-static.ak.facebook.com/rsrc.php/v1/y2/r/5l8_EVv_jyW.swf?v=1232051733902&ev=0)
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My all-time favorite Eagles tune is "James Dean". LOVE that tune!!!
However, it's dangerous for me to play while driving, as it leads me to commit excesses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lqAgINXiKY
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When it comes to the Eagles, despite liking the bass and everything else, it was really the vocals that I mostly focused on. In my early years, I did a lot of vocals in bands, too, besides playing bass. I'd often sing along to Eagles songs at home as a vocal exercise to keep my voice in shape for high notes. In time, I became much less interested in singing and much more interested in bass. Still, it doesn't hurt to sing an Eagles song from time to time, although the high notes aren't as easy as they used to be.
There is also, of course, the obvious Linda Ronstadt-Eagles connection that can be noted. I think that may be Leland Sklar playing on some of those
Linda Ronstadt songs, maybe even on the studio version of "Desperado." As much as I appreciate Linda Ronstadt (I even saw her in concert once,) it's hard to beat the Eagles, though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BwOXlGbW6Q
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A fairly big influence on my early playing - On The Border was my third LP...
Always liked this one of his... nice bass line...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwXcF5Pvy8I
Frey singing this one but post 3.00 there's even a bass solo of sorts...? not one of theirs, a cover of a David Blue song...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5MPdVtj02s
"Outlaw Man" certainly does fit in well with the rest of the album despite being a cover.
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Outlaw Man was actually the first Eagles song I ever heard in the early seventies. Loved the chorus immediately and the lyrics seemed ... so bad-ass dangerous. (LOL - Glenn Frey and sounding bad-ass dangerous!) It was on this compilation:
(http://s.discogss.com/image/R-1624466-1320417182.jpeg)
which opened a whole new world of rock to me, every track on that double album was a cracker. I didn't know what to like best, I wore the grooves of that darn thing thru. It's fair to say that those two dozen tracks - only a few of them what you would call heavy rock back then, much less heavy metal today - shaped my musical taste to this day, the ones I considered then (and still today) iconic in bold type:
Kick Out The Jams - MC5
Iron Man - Black Sabbath
I'm Eighteen - Alice Cooper
Freedom - Jimi Hendrix
Must Be Love - James Gang
Smoke On The Water - Deep Purple
Bang A Gong (Get It On) - T.Rex
Give It To Me - J. Geils Band
b]Right Place Wrong Time - Dr. John [/b]
D'yer Mak'er - Led Zeppelin
Bluebird - Buffalo Springfield
Cindy Incidentally - Faces
Touch me - The Doors
Ramblin' Man - Allman Brothers Band
Only You Know And I Know - Delaney & Bonnie
Domino - Van Morrison
Outlaw Man - Eagles
Starship Trooper - Yes
Radar Love - Golden Earring
Johnny B. Goode - Grateful Dead
What A Shame - Foghat
Stealin' - Uriah Heep
Lonely Feelin' - War
Ride Captain Ride - Blues Image
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Question: How many Eagles do you need to play Hotel California?
Answer: All seven of them - old and new - if it's before the RRHoF:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16AooDzb9zg
With Meisner still (plus assorted beards and 'fros):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXT1h3Ags94&feature=related
The other Don gives it a try alone, in case you wondered why he got to write, but not sing it with The Eagles, to be fair it's not awful, but his namesake's vocal grit is hard to match:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3NR4iZ5--M&feature=related
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The other Don gives it a try alone, in case you wondered why he got to write, but not sing it with The Eagles, to be fair it's not awful, but his namesakes vocal grit is hard to match:
Felder wrote the music, Henley the words.
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I like the Eagles. They used to write great "story songs" (such as Lyin Eyes, which I love). Always some tasty bass work too, regardless of who's playing.
BTW - PS played bass on Love Gun too, Uwe!
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Speaking of Don Felder, I love his "Heavy Metal" selections.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02nAH_oAjeg
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqALZ2fMcic
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"Felder wrote the music, Henley the words. "
I know, the chord combinations aren't very Eagle'ish in the sense of how Henley and Frey write at all. I wouldn't be surprised if Don Felder listend to a bit of Django Reinhardt in advance.
Henley's lyrics are either nicely image-evoking and deeply meaningful or pretentious rubbish, take your choice. The vocal melody - whether Felder's or Henley's idea - is even, especially in the verses, a bit lame, chord-sticking and less than lush-melodic for The Eagles' high standards. Doesn't matter, however, it conquered the world.
When I first heard HC I thought: Except for the vocals this doesn't sound Eagles at all. Took me a while to like it, it wasn't an immediate hit with me at all. The prominent harmony guitars at the end surprised me. The Eagles had used harmony lead playing before (e.g. in One of these Nights, and Boston's debut was all the rage back then with its umpteenth layered lead sounds, it came out six months before and was omnipresent), but not to this extent. Bill Szymczyk had prior to his production duties with The Eagles for this album just finished producing an album for ...
... you guessed it, these guys, same studio and all ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCjBIMprYIQ
Martin Turner (who rates Bill Szymczyk highly) says to this day that Hotel California's (the album's) sound owed a little debt to Wishbone Ash's previous recording right down to Don Henley's drums. Listening to There's the Rub (the album), he doesn't seem to be entirely wrong!
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I like the Eagles. They used to write great "story songs" (such as Lyin Eyes, which I love). Always some tasty bass work too, regardless of who's playing.
BTW - PS played bass on Love Gun too, Uwe!
This I knew! It sounds too nimble. I like Gene Simmons as a bass player but he always sounds a little heavy-handed in playing. He once said in a interview that he is sometimes asked to play certain guitar parts on Kiss albums because he sounds rougher than Paul and/or whatever other guitarist they have on their pay roll. "I do the beefy parts when needed."
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Outlaw Man was actually the first Eagles song I ever heard in the early seventies. Loved the chorus immediately and the lyrics seemed ... so bad-ass dangerous. (LOL - Glenn Frey and sounding bad-ass dangerous!) It was on this compilation:
(http://s.discogss.com/image/R-1624466-1320417182.jpeg)
which opened a whole new world of rock to me, every track on that double album was a cracker. I didn't know what to like best, I wore the grooves of that darn thing thru. It's fair to say that those two dozen tracks - only a few of them what you would call heavy rock back then, much less heavy metal today - shaped my musical taste to this day, the ones I considered then (and still today) iconic in bold type:
Kick Out The Jams - MC5
Iron Man - Black Sabbath
I'm Eighteen - Alice Cooper
Freedom - Jimi Hendrix
Must Be Love - James Gang
Smoke On The Water - Deep Purple
Bang A Gong (Get It On) - T.Rex
Give It To Me - J. Geils Band
b]Right Place Wrong Time - Dr. John [/b]
D'yer Mak'er - Led Zeppelin
Bluebird - Buffalo Springfield
Cindy Incidentally - Faces
Touch me - The Doors
Ramblin' Man - Allman Brothers Band
Only You Know And I Know - Delaney & Bonnie
Domino - Van Morrison
Outlaw Man - Eagles
Starship Trooper - Yes
Radar Love - Golden Earring
Johnny B. Goode - Grateful Dead
What A Shame - Foghat
Stealin' - Uriah Heep
Lonely Feelin' - War
Ride Captain Ride - Blues Image
"Ride Captain Ride" may have been more iconic, but the B side got a lot of attention, too. It's still a great song, though, with a more outdated sound than the A side.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3RkFSWh1dM&feature=related
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Henley's lyrics are either nicely image-evoking and deeply meaningful or pretentious rubbish, take your choice.
Henley's on record as being heavily influenced by the ambiguity of Steely Dan's lyrics and making a conscious attempt to do similar on Hotel California.
Felder was a Gainesville, Florida musician whose early claim to fame in the late '60s was as a blues player in the B.B. King mold with a jazz influenced band called Gingerbread. They changed their name to Flow, went to NYC, cut a record with Rudy Van Gelder and broke up. He got to hear a lot of twin guitar stuff long before Wishbone Ash formed.
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in uwe's world every band is shaped by one of his favorites. you can look it up. ;D
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in uwe's world every band is shaped by one of his favorites. you can look it up. ;D
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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in uwe's world every band is shaped by one of his favorites. you can look it up. ;D
Like Chekhov on Star Trek who is always claiming that anything of importance was invented by the Russians?
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Meisner and Frey, live, backing Linda Ronstadt in '72... possibly Henley on Drums, Sneaky Pete on the steel - The harmonies are obvious, ish...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbPYoEt3DJk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmG1g4GCqaQ
Meisner (as part of the Stone Canyon Band) with Rick Nelson - I posted this on a much earlier thread that referenced James Burton and a riff that might have appeared elsewhere... part of the song called Promises... Meisner was on a live album and the studio albim, Rudy the Fifth - the Stone Canyon Band period of Nelson's career were some of his best work, imo... Gypsy Pilot has some great melodic, very up-front work... I still have the vinyl for both of these LP's...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LnAux3WEc4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqYxTg-0aTo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2nGXfh2wU0&feature=share&list=PL26CEA950AD826A3F http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx6goQ_vXFk
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It does mean something to still have the vinyl albums like those Rick Nelson albums. I used to have about the first five Linda Ronstadt albums until a guitarist "borrowed" them and I never saw them again. He also got part of my Hendrix albums.
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Henley's on record as being heavily influenced by the ambiguity of Steely Dan's lyrics and making a conscious attempt to do similar on Hotel California.
Felder was a Gainesville, Florida musician whose early claim to fame in the late '60s was as a blues player in the B.B. King mold with a jazz influenced band called Gingerbread. They changed their name to Flow, went to NYC, cut a record with Rudy Van Gelder and broke up. He got to hear a lot of twin guitar stuff long before Wishbone Ash formed.
I understand that Steely Dan seems to be highly revered in some circles, but I have to say I never much got into the music. I think I do remember reading somewhere, though, that the Eagles were influenced by them. There may be a connection there, but I don't hear it.
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in uwe's world every band is shaped by one of his favorites. you can look it up. ;D
That is because I have a taste for pivotal, groundbreaking bands! :mrgreen: But it's not quite true: I love Judas Priest and they are/were heavily Deep Purple-influenced and less so by Led Zep, which is why I like them even more! Led Zep is more of an influence on American rock bands than on European ones, you guys had Kingdom Come and Great White, not us!
In my book serious twin guitar lead live playing as a continuous feature and not just as an occasional studio embellishment was brought to the forefront by two bands: The Allman Brothers and Wishbone Ash (when both bands met for the first time at a US gig, they were both surprised how they had developed independent from each other), you may wish to add late sixties Fleetwood Mac to that. That said, Hotel California's twin guitar sounds is more Wishbone Ash than Allman Brothers to me due ti the minorish chord progression it is set against.
Thin Lizzy, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, UFO - people tend to forget how influential Wishbone Ash's Argus was when it came out in 1972 - have all admitted that the sound of two continuous lead guitars interweaving live impressed them with early Wishbone Ash and that they borrowed it - nothing wrong with that. And without the Allman Brothers, I doubt Lynyrd Skynrd or 38 Special, The Outlaws and the Marshall Tucker Band etc would have sounded like they did. Even Clapton was so impressed that he took Duane on board for Derek & The Dominos.
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The influence of the Allman Brothers was tremendous, in my opinion. They were like the gods of Southern rock, with all due respect to other bands, of course. The Marshall Tucker Band, great band, of course, but I never thought they were in the Allman Brothers league. I did once see Marshall Tucker in concert, but it didn't change my opinion any.
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I understand that Steely Dan seems to be highly revered in some circles, but I have to say I never much got into the music. I think I do remember reading somewhere, though, that the Eagles were influenced by them. There may be a connection there, but I don't hear it.
Much of Steely Dan's charm escapes me, carefully crafted as it is, it often sounds elevator muzaky to me, all those 6, 7 and sus chords do relatively little for me. But I know where the comparison might be coming from, Henley's penchant for perfection and Frey's smooth crooner leanings sometimes give The Eagles something sterile, cool and over-crafted totally at odds with their early outlaw image. In comparison to most Eagles albums even the more polished Crosby, Stills & Nash (or: & Young) output sounds outright warty and ethno.
The Eagles are a phenomenon to me, they are - The Beatles excepted - the only "huge" band I really like. I have all their stuff plus most of the stuff of the individual members, yet they are incredibly corporate. There is also nothing in the least original or edgy in their music, it is an amalgam of American music (just like their adopted home state of California is an amalgam of the US), I hear The Band, CSNY, Buffalo Springfield, Flying Burritos, Loggins & Messina, yet at the same time they are immediately recognizable. I've seen them live twice, the only people who seem to be enjoying themselves on stage are Frey and Walsh. Henley is so incredibly earnest and serious, I find it grating, someone should tell him that he is not Bob Dylan after all and not the chronist of his generation. At the last concert I saw them he went into this incredible rant about people photographing the band on stage and sour-facedly complained about "lack of respect for artists and their work" ... :rolleyes: All from a guy who's earned tens if not maybe a hundred of millions with his (well-made) music and was charging huge ticket prices to ten thousand people at an open air. I cringed so much I felt discomfort. :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ Frey is amiable and a lounge lizard but we all know that for the right amount of money he will even sing something as obscenely horrendous as The Heat is On. Yet at the same time, I love lightweight stuff from him like this here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptoW5W0I4Bw&feature=related
Who says I have to be consistent!
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That is because I have a taste for pivotal, groundbreaking bands! :mrgreen: But it's not quite true: I love Judas Priest and they are/were heavily Deep Purple-influenced and less so by Led Zep, which is why I like them even more! Led Zep is more of an influence on American rock bands than on European ones, you guys had Kingdom Come and Great White, not us!
In my book serious twin guitar lead live playing as a continuous feature and not just as an occasional studio embellishment was brought to the forefront by two bands: The Allman Brothers and Wishbone Ash (when both bands met for the first time at a US gig, they were both surprised how they had developed independent from each other), you may wish to add late sixties Fleetwood Mac to that. That said, Hotel California's twin guitar sounds is more Wishbone Ash than Allman Brothers to me due ti the minorish chord progression it is set against.
Thin Lizzy, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, UFO - people tend to forget how influential Wishbone Ash's Argus was when it came out in 1972 - have all admitted that the sound of two continuous lead guitars interweaving live impressed them with early Wishbone Ash and that they borrowed it - nothing wrong with that. And without the Allman Brothers, I doubt Lynyrd Skynrd or 38 Special, The Outlaws and the Marshall Tucker Band etc would have sounded like they did. Even Clapton was so impressed that he took Duane on board for Derek & The Dominos.
W.A. had minor influence if any on American Southern bands in the early '70s. All who had jumped on the twin guitar band wagon had their prototypical model and it wasn't them. Some of us were actually there.
Great conspiracy theory though.
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W.A. had minor influence if any on American Southern bands in the early '70s. All who had jumped on the twin guitar band wagon had their prototypical model and it wasn't them. Some of us were actually there.
Great conspiracy theory though.
You're right. Wishbone Ash was virtually unknown here.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC2YG2WSrtE
An example of why Desperado is a great album.
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"W.A. had minor influence if any on American Southern bands in the early '70s. All who had jumped on the twin guitar band wagon had their prototypical model and it wasn't them. Some of us were actually there.
Great conspiracy theory though."
"You're right. Wishbone Ash was virtually unknown here."
Huh? I didn't say Wishbone Ash inspired the Southern Rock bands, I said the Allmans did and that they developed independently from each other, let's reread this class:
"In my book serious twin guitar lead live playing as a continuous feature and not just as an occasional studio embellishment was brought to the forefront by two bands: The Allman Brothers and Wishbone Ash (when both bands met for the first time at a US gig, they were both surprised how they had developed independent from each other), you may wish to add late sixties Fleetwood Mac to that.
And without the Allman Brothers, I doubt Lynyrd Skynyrd or 38 Special, The Outlaws and the Marshall Tucker Band etc would have sounded like they did."
You guys are like Mitt, first shoot, then aim! :mrgreen:
All I said was that The Eagles' twin guitar solo at the end of HC sounds more Wishbone Ashy than Allmanny (the Allmans sounded jazzier in their twin guitar stuff, WA more classical). Add to that how Joe Walsh by his own admission is more Brit guitar than yank guitarists of his time influenced. And The Eagles don't fall in my classification of Southern Rock either, they are "West Coast Light Rock" to me. And that there was a connection timewise, producer- and studiowise between WA's There's the Rub and The Eagles' HC album. The sound (not the music) of these two albums is indeed similar.
You guys should have become attorneys, you're good at disproving what other people haven't stated! :mrgreen:
Unless, of course, Thin Lizzy, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and UFO are Southern Rock bands to you both, then you must be right. :rolleyes:
"Thin Lizzy, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, UFO - people tend to forget how influential Wishbone Ash's Argus was when it came out in 1972 - have all admitted that the sound of two continuous lead guitars interweaving live impressed them with early Wishbone Ash and that they borrowed it - nothing wrong with that."
Teaches you that dearly anticipating that you wish to disagree with someone should not deter you from closely reading what he wrote first. Old attorney recommendation between friends, sure helps unveiling conspiracy theories too. :-*
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You guys should have become attorneys, you're good at disproving what other people haven't stated!
Oh, I have to steal this one!
As far as Wishbone Ash goes, they are my second favorite band behind King Crimson. I haven't listened to them in a while, but I know people who feel that Wisefield/Powell worked better than Turner/Powell. I would suspect that their reputation grew here in the States on the heels of a tour with Grand Funk, which is where my friends all discovered them. Argus definitely broke them out. You couldn't go anywhere without hearing "The King Will Come" or "Blowing Free" for a few months.
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Wishbone diehards will always long for the Powell/Turner guitar duo responsible for the beauty of Argus, but I prefer Powell/Wisefield too. Wisefield was more versatile (hence his career as a session and tour musician with Al Stewart, Tina Turner, Roger Chapman, the Queen Musical and Nokia Night of the Proms before and after WA) than either Powell (who started rehearsing technique anew when Wisefield joined!) or Ted Turner (who had only been playing for a comparatively short time when he joined the original WA line up - he was so young, his mom spoke to the band! - but had great feel and tone). Wisefield was a more American style guitarist - funky licks and all -, not the terse more folky-lean Brit style of Ted Turner. For that old WA fans blame him for allegedly being responsible of the band "Americanizing" in his era (later seventies), but it's bollocks, it was a conscious move by all of them as they were immersed in American music by their lengthy tours there. This song, sung and written by him, is often seen as WA "selling out" to which I defiantly cry "who cares if it comes across a little like a Peter Frampton pastiche, they could have used a few more songs of that type on each album if it had given them only a tenth of Frampton's sales!" :mrgreen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGOJIKuacQI
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Concerning Eagles, I really loved that band when they came along with their first album - must have been like '72. Really liked Desperado too, thought Meisners work was really great. Listened to it every day! Great story built around the connection rock band - outlaws. Maybe a bit romanticising the lifestyle, it was also over the edge at times. Then came their third - was it On the border(?), which I thought was a really slick attempt to reach the bigger money. Started losing interest in the band. When Hotel California came out, could have been ther fifth album, I thought it was silly. Never bought it. And so all interest in The Eagles was gone...
But I liked the playing of Meisner and the guy from Burritos, Frey.
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I saw Wishbone Ash during the Argus tour. One thing that stuck with me, and probably accounts for my interest in lap steel, was Ted Turner playing slide by laying his Strat on what may have been an ironing board. I still think about trying to pick up a lap steel some day.
Over time, while WA lost their direction and consistency, I have found New England to be my favorite album, and it's the Wisefield/Powell team there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD6OWWxt6h8
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They were very little known here. I'll stand by that statement. Never heard them played on any AOR station. I'm surprised to read that two of their albums made it inside the top 100.
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You live in a very big country, Dave, and I'm certainly aware how big some bands or artists got in a local area until they broke nationally, ie Bob Seger or Nugent in Michigan, REO in Illinois, etc - always possible to have slipped by you... most of you guys would never have heard of a band called Stray but they were certainly very popular in London in the 70's... doodlysquat anywhere else though...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjfXkiiBRZI
Leadon was the Burritos link, Stjofon, and from there you get GP... Mr Parsons was another romantascist... wrote and played some truly beautiful music... I still prefer his version of Wild Horses to any other - the (urban myth) story goes that it was written for him - he hanged with Richards during that era and again, reputedly, influenced them with Honky Tonk Women...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjpa_OYAEpo
Leadon played in a ridiculously competent pickup bluegrass outfit post the Eagles that played a pub/bar gig in Putney, West London - four piece with Bernie Leadon, Chris Hillman and iirc Al Perkins but can't remember who the 4th person was - the place was rammed...
Re D&TD - Duane Allman is now credited with writing the introduction to the song Layla and there's a great story re Clapton and Allman's first meeting - iirc, it was at an ABB gig in Florida, Tom Dowd mentioned them and EC freaked, after knowing a lot of his session stuff (Pickett and Aretha, etc) so they went and on seeing EC in the crowd ABB's roadies got him into the pit - Duane was not told of this and suddenly spotted EC, tapping his feet, eyes closed, seated on his butt in the pit, and froze mid-solo, where Betts took over for him - Dowd told a story of the pair of them (EC & DA) then spending the whole night with acoustics, like old friends, "how'd you do this?" "How'd you do that?" and his biggest regret is that he did not have a tape rolling - that's also the story for Key To The Highway - they'd hit the groove at a rehearsal and he realised the tape was not rolling, hence the fade in... the sessions were heavily influenced by certain medicinal products...
Wishbone - never saw the original but certainly saw the Wisefield lineup more than a few times - they played a special show at the Marquee (400 persons venue) and someone opened a fire exit and the estimate is that a further 300 got in - There are very few gigs I have ever seen that topped this one, with the possible exception of Skynyrd in '76 at Hammersmith or the 4 times I saw Gillan at the Marquee - 3 different lineups in 18 months - the only constants being IG and Colin Towns...
I never did understand why Wishbone kept saying that Bad Weather Blues was an "old favourite" when most of us went huh?
And bringing us back to the Eagles, I think Mr Anderson is very gracious about this rather interesting chord progression that is quite well known...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xny0Uj4--tk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sJA_VF5c7U
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i agree with dave and gweimer. WA was a non entity in america and we live the counrty's width apart. this country ain't that big to miss the bands you named
move on kenny....i've heard of stray as well as bolex dimentia... :mrgreen:
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But you're an expert and a trawler like me, Nofi, and as for Bolex... ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OswhfGq-gbw
... One-third of that package and a Zzebra on the bass...
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Oh yeah, the Eagles made a video short for the Desperado album I've never managed to find - anyone know a source for it...? I've seen plenty of stills from it but never the video...
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... and another inane posting from me...
This Eagles tune, "Got To Get You In The Mood", goes right back to the very start, the B-side of the original release of "Take It Easy"; never appeared on anything else and not now commercially available - absolutely no reason I can understand - classically Frey tune (slightly corny lyrics), great bass and a nice Leadon solo with sweet harmonies... completely forgotten...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ISeIBF0N8k
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Yeah, right, Herbie! Of course it was Leadon. I was tired writing that yesterday, came home from my younger brothers place 400 kilometers away, after getting his home in shape for selling. Ulf, my brother, was an archeologist, had his house full of litterature in the field, reports, stones of different kinds, leather, the lot. He was specially interested in the hunter societys in the Northern world - above the Polar circle. 25 years ago he got a museum built called Vuollerim 6000. But he got in fight with the politic powers, and got fired 15 years ago. I wrote about his conditions a couple of years ago here on LBO, when the Big C got it's hooks in him. Ulf passed away three months ago, June 12th.
In the stuff I brought with me for selling on the net, to get some money for his four children, was a pack of albums. And, to close the circle, the double album An anthology, by Duane Allman. Complete with Layla!
Plus Flaming Groovies, Zombies, Del Shannon, Rockpile, Hank Williams, Stones, Byrds, Kinks, Connie Francis. Yes, you might say it; Ulf was an archeologist in more then one sence!
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I'm still trying to find the part in my postings where I said Wishbone Ash were hugely popular in America. I must have written it with magic ink, but fortunately some people can read that. For the record: WA were never hugely popular anywhere, because they didn't have an extrovert frontman, no hit singles nor flashy performances. Argus was however album of the year in 1972 for Melody Maker and while that might mean nothing in the US of A mainland, I first heard WA when an American of all people loaned his album of Argus to me in 1975 and was raving about it. He must have been the only one, history is all about coincidences.
But the discussion of "were they popular or not" misses the point, when we are talking about influence. Both the New York Dolls and The Ramones are justly called influential, yet neither of them ever came close to the album sales and live drawing power of Grand Funk Railroad or Foghat, which are regularly not filed under "influential".
Perhaps we can agree that the Allmans were both more popular and influential in the US while Europe was more WA's turf (though they toured a lot in the US, but it is a big country and as a Brit band you could pe popular in one state or big city and not the next adjacent one).
And even if WA had never set foot on Amercian soil, I venture forth the observation that the fact that completion of There's the Rub was a little rushed because their producer was now booked in the same studio with the Eagles to record Hotel California might have something to do with the fact that HC (the song) contains the longest lead twin guitar part recorded by The Eagles ever. That having spent weeks with a band which twin lead guitared every song would not leave an imprint on a producer's set of ears is hardly an evident assumption, but of course you are allowed to make it. Maybe ole Bill S. had a habit of not listening to the bands he produced.
Sigh.
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Frey is a Detroit native and a Bob Seger buddy, he probably heard more Motown than country as a youth and his post-Eagles output of blue-eyed soul seems to indicate a lasting influence. That said, he pretty quickly developed country ears with The Eagles and is resopnsible for some of the soppiest country folk ballads the Eagles ever committed to vinyl or CD. But he was no Burrito ever.
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i'm still not buying the 'big country' theory put forth by you and kenny. but nice try anyway. :)
i owned a few WA records and i bet guys in alabama, florida, south carolina and tennessee did as well. :o
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Frey is a Detroit native and a Bob Seger buddy, he probably heard more Motown than country as a youth and his post-Eagles output of blue-eyed soul seems to indicate a lasting influence. That said, he pretty quickly developed country ears with The Eagles and is resopnsible for some of the soppiest country folk ballads the Eagles ever committed to vinyl or CD. But he was no Burrito ever.
That would certainly explain this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y530MuXuVrk
I always wondered how Seger took co-writing credit for this, since he basically took it from a cover. Gee, like that NEVER happens in the music biz.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI_rkZIuHzw
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Oh yeah, the Eagles made a video short for the Desperado album I've never managed to find - anyone know a source for it...? I've seen plenty of stills from it but never the video...
I wasn't even aware of the existence of this.
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... and another inane posting from me...
This Eagles tune, "Got To Get You In The Mood", goes right back to the very start, the B-side of the original release of "Take It Easy"; never appeared on anything else and not now commercially available - absolutely no reason I can understand - classically Frey tune (slightly corny lyrics), great bass and a nice Leadon solo with sweet harmonies... completely forgotten...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ISeIBF0N8k
The lyrics may be a little corny, but the song's message comes through crystal clear.
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chrissie hynde in the eagles?
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I'm listening to Fats Domino right now and trying to forget this thread. Somebody let me know when Uwe explains how Fats influenced Wishbone Ash. Or vice versa.
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"Blueberry Hill. My parents had it on 78 but it was obvious that they weren't very keen that I listen to it. It was my introduction to questionable lyrics and I developed a fascination for such things which continues to this day. This thread has now officially moved as far away as is humanly possible from discussing Randy Meisner's bass on "Hotel California." LOL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xDceKm-IeU
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I'm listening to Fats Domino right now and trying to forget this thread. Somebody let me know when Uwe explains how Fats influenced Wishbone Ash. Or vice versa.
We could just play six degrees of separation. Fats Domino did "Ain't That A Shame", which was recorded by Cheap Trick, with Tom Petersson, who was a big user of Hamer basses, as was Martin Turner from Wishbone Ash.
Ta Da! :thumbsup: :vader: :thumbsup: :vader: :thumbsup:
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In just now looking up the year HC was released--because I actually believed it was before 1977--I noticed in Wikipedia that the working title of the song was "Mexican Reggae." So it appears the faux reggae sound on it must have been intentional from the first.
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Andy Powell and Ted Turner were both - like a lot of young Brits at the time - blues enthusiasts. Fats Domino was probably not delta enough for them. And ole Fats never really mastered the art of arranging twin harmonic melody lead in his band. Which explains why the Allmans were relatively uninfluenced by Fats Domino though Greg Allman might disagree.
To come full circle, Randy Meisner was a vintage rock'n'roll enthusiast which clashed with Don Henley's more serious aspirations. When Meisner and Walsh started throwing vintage rock'n'roll shapes during some Eagles songs Henley admonished them both after the gig. Ever the prankster!
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... I was tired writing that yesterday, came home from my younger brothers place 400 kilometers away, after getting his home in shape for selling...
Never a good trip, Stjofön, never a good trip... commiserations and enjoy the memories... I had a round trip of 1500 when I sorted my fathers place and on the way home, which I just wanted to do, I did it in the day, 0500 for the ferry and home at 2300... that was not a good trip, but I still have the memories...
Michael... the cover was from the set of the promo video, so I read some years back, as was the "dead-outlaw/gunslinger" shot with JD Souther and Jackson browne - Henry Diltz shot the cover and a shed load of other shots - it was a "short"...
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But of course Meisner had a lot of old rock in him! He played with Rick Nelson, way before joining the Eagles, as we all know. Meisner was an all round guy to have in your back, if you were quite new in the game.
And, as Uwe has pointed out, Wishbone's Argus is a great record. I first heard it on a come-down an early morning of fall '72. Got me thinking; I got to rearrange my life... So I did.
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We could just play six degrees of separation. Fats Domino did "Ain't That A Shame", which was recorded by Cheap Trick, with Tom Petersson, who was a big user of Hamer basses, as was Martin Turner from Wishbone Ash.
Ta Da! :thumbsup: :vader: :thumbsup: :vader: :thumbsup:
Brilliant!
But of course Meisner had a lot of old rock in him! He played with Rick Nelson, way before joining the Eagles, as we all know. Meisner was an all round guy to have in your back, if you were quite new in the game...
Rick Nelson replaced him with Fang. That didn't end well.
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Never a good trip, Stjofön, never a good trip... commiserations and enjoy the memories... I had a round trip of 1500 when I sorted my fathers place and on the way home, which I just wanted to do, I did it in the day, 0500 for the ferry and home at 2300... that was not a good trip, but I still have the memories...
Michael... the cover was from the set of the promo video, so I read some years back, as was the "dead-outlaw/gunslinger" shot with JD Souther and Jackson browne - Henry Diltz shot the cover and a shed load of other shots - it was a "short"...
Not that it probably matters so much now, but I always thought the Desperado photos had an authentic Old West look to them.
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I thought the Wild West image corny even at the time but it did give a band of Linda Ronstadt sessioneers who were basically a faceless no-image band an image for a time. My initial perception of the Eagles was more influenced by their mystic Native American album cover art on such albums as One of these Nights and their initial Greatest Hits album, with his long hair Glenn Frey looked a little Native American, but once he cropped it and the moustache went post-Eagles he outed himself as the city-slicker he always was! Of course, the Native American imagery was as phony as the outlaws with gun belts stuff, none of them had any Native American roots though they did play with musical influences from there on Witchy Woman and Journey of the Scorcerer to name two (also Eagles favorites of mine).
As I'm writing this, Glenn Frey's lounge lizard After Hours CD is playing and the steel guitars are whining - when it comes to schmaltz the guy is utterly shameless but I like him better than Henley's pious earnestness.
By the way, was ever anybody from the Eagles a born Californian? Walsh is from Boulder, Colorado, I believe, Henley a Texan, Frey from Michigan, Meisner I believe from Nebraska, Felder from somewhere Dixey, that just leaves Leadon and Schmidt for Californian laurels, but I don't think they were either.
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I thought Glenn Frey actually did look like he belonged to the Old West in those photos, even more than the others. But he definitely is a city slicker. Also, I appreciate his shamelessness now more than ever.
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Timothy B. Schmit is from California. He ended up with the Carvin bass just by chancing upon one in a California store, the only place I know of where they sell Carvins in a store.
Edit:
I didn't see the other post mentioning Schmit.
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Timothy B. Schmit is from California. He ended up with the Carvin bass just by chancing upon one in a California store, the only place I know of where they sell Carvins in a store.
Edit:
I didn't see the other post mentioning Schmit.
I remember Carvin when they were a mail order operation out of Escondido. It's also the reason I never bought another Carvin after my first amp.
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I remember Carvin when they were a mail order operation out of Escondido. It's also the reason I never bought another Carvin after my first amp.
I've never played a Carvin. I notice the reviews seem to be mixed. From what I gather, Timothy B. Schmit literally wore his Carvin out, but never bought another one.
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Well, at least one of them then, though tellingly Schmidt is probably the most anodyne of them all!
Anyway, this thread has me now listening to the Desperado remaster, "faithless women" and all that ... :mrgreen: ... love the Eagles' obsession with jiltin' wimmin when Henley and Frey coined the phrase in their groupie devouring heyday to lear'em, lov'em, leav'em (alluding to their trick to fly their "victims" in with the band Lear jet which apparently never failed to impress).
Tequila Sunrise plays ... I gotta tell this: When I first had a cocktail card before me, I knew nothing of cocktails except a Bloody Mary and a Pina Colada, so I ordered a Tequila Sunrise because I knew the song (unaware that that had been about a drink, I thought Tequila was a place in Mexico, which it possibly also is)!!! Years later I was embarrassed by someone quipping "that's a lady's drink". I still order it to this day and always think of the song and Glenn Frey when I do. My less than manly choice of cocktails is therefore directly influenced by The Eagles.
PS: Love the busy bass playing in Outlaw during the end - also one of the few darker songs sung by Frey.
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Well, at least one of them then, though tellingly Schmidt is probably the most anodyne of them all!
Anyway, this thread has me now listening to the Desperado remaster, "faithless women" and all that ... :mrgreen: ... love the Eagles' obsession with jiltin' wimmin when Henley and Frey coined the phrase in their groupie devouring heyday to lear'em, lov'em, leav'em (alluding to their trick to fly their "victims" in with the band Lear jet which apparently never failed to impress).
Tequila Sunrise plays ... I gotta tell this: When I first had a cocktail card before me, I knew nothing of cocktails except a Bloody Mary and a Pina Colada, so I ordered a Tequila Sunrise because I knew the song (unaware that that had been about a drink, I thought Tequila was a place in Mexico, which it possibly also is)!!! Years later I was embarrassed by someone quipping "that's a lady's drink". I still order it to this day and always think of the song and Glenn Frey when I do. My less than manly choice of cocktails is therefore directly influenced by The Eagles.
PS: Love the busy bass playing in Outlaw during the end - also one of the few darker songs sung by Frey.
As for Schmit, I actually do like his vocals. Being in a band with so many great singers, though, it's natural that he still wouldn't get to sing much. As has been noted, of course, he got the job because he could play AND sing.
I haven't seen the details of how the Eagles derived maximum benefits from groupies. I can only imagine. However, life being what it is and the opposite sex being so well-armed in the "game" of love, I'd bet that at least a few of the Eagles actually did experience being stung by faithless women in real life. Just speculation on my part, though.
I'm no expert on mixed drinks, but I've never heard a Tequila Sunrise referred to as a lady's drink. It seems to me it's just a regular drink. A Singapore Sling is a lady's drink.
As for the bass playing on "Desperado," I've listened to that album so many times that when I finally decided I'd stop just singing to it and actually play the bass to it, I found that I could effortlessly play the bass to every song. But it was the natural way I'd play, not the way Randy Meisner would do it. It made me appreciate his bass playing more than I might normally have. Although that was quite some time ago, in a way, that was a kind of turning point for me. It made me realize that Randy Meisner's bass playing was pretty damned good, and maybe mine wasn't quite so good as I had thought. Better that than to overrate one's self, but stark reality can sometimes be more stark than originally planned.
I've never been in a band that covered an Eagles song. However, after listening to some of those Eagles covers on YouTube, it seems to me it might be a good idea if more people realized sounding as good as the Eagles is not easy. Thinking that you're doing so might be kind of delusional.
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Tequila sunrise a lady's drink? Not that I've ever heard.
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Is it not?!!!! This thread is a testosterone bandaid for my ailing manhood then! A world-travelled CEO of a hotel management group once told me and I took his word for granted. But of course all Brits are masters at deception, I should have known better. Repeat: Tequila Sunrises are manly. The sly smiles of bartenders in the past - mere figments of my imagination. The fact that Glenn Frey sings about a woman drinking it - just a gender coincidence. The mellow taste - naw, I know it's harsh now. Make way, mortals, make way for the fearsomely manly Tequila Sunrise gulper!!!
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Schmidt's almost soprano like falsetto backing vocals are certainly an asset, during the hibernation of the Eagles he sang on a lot of other people's recordings. His bass playing, however, is capable yet totally uncommitted. And he doesn't get the One of these Nights intro quite right either! But does well with the unison bass/guitar lick in Life in the Fast Lane. You can't have it all.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfRkuBDhUHE
An example of Timothy B. Schmit's outstanding vocals.
I'm also throwing in a song with the same name by the Scorpions which has nothing to do with anything, but it's a good song, too. It can be considered lagniappe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGHmybzQVN8
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I ordered a tequila sunrise at a Munich hotel bar last night. On purpose. I watched the bar tender closely, nothing gave him away, he did not smile. Thanks guys.
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Tequila? On a Monday night? Had you been in Sweden, the social authorities would have considered you're in trouble!
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Isn't Joe Walsh from Cleveland?
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Isn't Joe Walsh from Cleveland?
I had thought so, but not according to world authority Wiki. ;) I'm guessing his Kent State days got him started on his musical career.
"A native of Wichita, Kansas, Walsh and his family lived in Columbus, Ohio, for a number of years. His mother was a classically trained pianist. When Walsh was twelve years old the family moved to New York City. Later, Walsh moved to Montclair, New Jersey and attended Montclair High School there. While attending Kent State University, he spent time in various bands playing around the Cleveland area, including The Measles. Walsh began a lifelong hobby of amateur ("ham") radio while living in New York City."
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I ordered a tequila sunrise at a Munich hotel bar last night. On purpose. I watched the bar tender closely, nothing gave him away, he did not smile. Thanks guys.
Most of my knowledge of mixed drinks comes from living on the Gulf Coast for a few years. But when I took a vacation to Germany years after that, I think I only had beer in Munich (a place which seems to really know a lot about beer, by the way.)
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going way back to Fang for a moment. i went to his webpage and learned he replaced the vox neck with "a fender neck" right away. according to him the original bass was unplayable because of its fat neck. Fang looks a lot like ron perlman these days. please continue. :)
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I had thought so, but not according to world authority Wiki. ;) I'm guessing his Kent State days got him started on his musical career.
"A native of Wichita, Kansas, Walsh and his family lived in Columbus, Ohio, for a number of years. His mother was a classically trained pianist. When Walsh was twelve years old the family moved to New York City. Later, Walsh moved to Montclair, New Jersey and attended Montclair High School there. While attending Kent State University, he spent time in various bands playing around the Cleveland area, including The Measles. Walsh began a lifelong hobby of amateur ("ham") radio while living in New York City."
Ooops, I must have made the wrong connection from his second successor in the James Gang then, Tommy Bolin, who came from Boulder. :-[ Well it's better than assuming Walsh was a Cannuck which I would have otherwise deduced from Domenic Troiano's origins who followed him directly in the James Gang!
Speaking of Herr Walsh, his new solo album is worth a listen, It won't change the world, but it's music to feel good with. This here is soppy as only Bill Clinton can be, but at the same time cute and moving:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCqWMk8jXeY&feature=related
And the Jeff Lynne influence is barely audible, I tell you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DEjHHhvR7Y&feature=related
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Not sure if Walsh witnessed the darkest day in Kent State's history...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnOoNM0U6oc
... but he certainly wrote this one about the events...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5WxLMeFrrE
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Ooops, I must have made the wrong connection from his second successor in the James Gang then, Tommy Bolin, who came from Boulder. :-[ Well it's better than assuming Walsh was a Cannuck which I would have otherwise deduced from Domenic Troiano's origins who followed him directly in the James Gang!
Speaking of Herr Walsh, his new solo album is worth a listen, It won't change the world, but it's music to feel good with. This here is soppy as only Bill Clinton can be, but at the same time cute and moving:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCqWMk8jXeY&feature=related
And the Jeff Lynne influence is barely audible, I tell you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DEjHHhvR7Y&feature=related
You're right; that is worth listening to. I wasn't expecting to hear music like that from Joe Walsh. It appears that becoming part of the Beatles family is something that suits him well. He is writing from the heart. He is expressing true gratitude, something that too many people (including myself) seem to know too little about.
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Not sure if Walsh witnessed the darkest day in Kent State's history...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnOoNM0U6oc
... but he certainly wrote this one about the events...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5WxLMeFrrE
I've heard that Kent State and the people associated with it seem troubled that they still only seem to be associated with the Kent State Massacre. Seeing that iconic picture of the girl kneeling over the body is a horror which cannot be erased.
I do like the "Turn to Stone" song. Some people complain about Joe Walsh's voice, but I kind of like the quirkiness of it. There's definitely much worse out there.